I have an idea that could limit school shootings

[DudeistBelieve]

Invent a device that would be put on weapons like the ones used in the shooting that would alert schools within a certain range that the weapon is entering the area. That way the school could execute an emergency evacuation plan of some kind. I know that this could be done. However I lack the skills and means to invent it myself otherwise I would.

Can you help me develop/refine this idea please?

Problem with your solution...

Only good civilians are going to let the chip in their guns.

Shooters are going to find a work around. They'll find a way to either neutralize the device or remove it completely. Also creates black market for guns with out this technology.

All I can say is that the shooter and his mother that owned the weapons that were used weren't known to be criminals.

Didn't say criminal. I said Good. Clearly the son was a "Bad Guy", and if one is plotting a rampage in advance one isn't going to leave the device on there.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Invent a device that would be put on weapons like the ones used in the shooting that would alert schools within a certain range that the weapon is entering the area. That way the school could execute an emergency evacuation plan of some kind. I know that this could be done. However I lack the skills and means to invent it myself otherwise I would.

Can you help me develop/refine this idea please?

So-o-o, like an RFID chip? Like the ones you already have in your passport, on your purchases (it's how the alarm rings if you have unpaid stuff), some libraries have it in their books (mostly for the alarm thingie), also magnetic cards, some keys, etc. It's pretty widely used. It's also pretty easy to bypass, too. I can't think of anything that is essentially an RFID chip that you cannot ever take off or hide.

Oh, and by the way, you can easily clone an RFID signature. Without ever touching it. So, like, for example, if you have some sort of ID card (my uni has them), I'd suggest buying card holder slips, which mask it, while the card is inside.

Yes I think I know what you are talking about. Not every criminal would be able to figure out how to disable the device. The idea is too limit school shootings, completely preventing them is pretty impossible. Further If the device were soldered into the gun it would be even harder to remove and would take certain skills and resources to do. Thanks for your response it was very informative.

Dude. Internet.

I can find the recipe for a pipe bomb right now if I was so inclined.

 

[DoPo]

Invent a device that would be put on weapons like the ones used in the shooting that would alert schools within a certain range that the weapon is entering the area. That way the school could execute an emergency evacuation plan of some kind. I know that this could be done. However I lack the skills and means to invent it myself otherwise I would.

Can you help me develop/refine this idea please?

So-o-o, like an RFID chip? Like the ones you already have in your passport, on your purchases (it's how the alarm rings if you have unpaid stuff), some libraries have it in their books (mostly for the alarm thingie), also magnetic cards, some keys, etc. It's pretty widely used. It's also pretty easy to bypass, too. I can't think of anything that is essentially an RFID chip that you cannot ever take off or hide.

Oh, and by the way, you can easily clone an RFID signature. Without ever touching it. So, like, for example, if you have some sort of ID card (my uni has them), I'd suggest buying card holder slips, which mask it, while the card is inside.

Yes I think I know what you are talking about. Not every criminal would be able to figure out how to disable the device. The idea is too limit school shootings, completely preventing them is pretty impossible. Further If the device were soldered into the gun it would be even harder to remove and would take certain skills and resources to do. Thanks for your response it was very informative.

You don't need to remove them. They are also embedded in your passport and so on, but you can put that in the microwave and be done with it - 10 seconds should be more than enough, the chip fries and is nonfunctional (good practice, too, if you care about security. Or you're paranoid. There is little to distinguish the two). Of course, guns tend to be metal, and metal tends to not be good to be put in a microwave, but you can also cover the chip or disable it in another way. Not to mention all the guns that don't have RFID chips at the moment.

See, as much as I don't like the Nirvana fallacy (if it's not perfect, it's not worth it), this is one of the time that it's not a fallacy. Placing such a system in place would only lead to a false sense of security - the resources to be blown on a measure that would protect in only some of the cases, and only some of the time, is, frankly, better scrapped. You could just spend the money on more security personnel - that works for all the cases - if the gun has or hasn't a RFID chip, also they can do something about it. Not perfect, but better than the RFID solution. Otherwise, you're introducing a pretty big point of failure - imagine you relied on a gun identifying system - if it fails to work, you're fucked, hence you need to overprovision with another system. So you have a system in place, with another system to watch it, because you know the first doesn't work... Yeah, you don't need the first system, if the second handles things anyway.

I just wont to point out how they are going to but a rifle in a microwave and microwaves only work when the door is closed. further the metal being microwaved could break the microwave right?

I did acknowledge that - I was just poining out how easy it is to stop the RFID chip without taking it out. I also pointed out that you can cover the chip. This is also very easy

Yes, that easy. And as I said, there are card sleeves and slips, readily sold that are precisely for RFID signal blocking. If I'm not mistaken, you can just swipe a powerful enough magnet and that can also destroy the chip. Bypassing them is literally a non-issue. They also randomly stop working by themselves - OK, not really common, but common enough to be considered normal. That's why nobody uses them for what you proposed. And you're forgetting all the guns that are not chipped at the moment - what do we do with them?

I can find the recipe for a pipe bomb right now if I was so inclined.

I have one. Actually, I think I have at least a couple. I also have recipe for thermite, chloroform, smoke bombs, and probably a few more. They are next to the guide about how to dispose of corpses. I'm not even joking - I didn't go looking for these, I just stumbled upon them and went "Heh, that's kind of cool" and saved them. I'm not sure what I can find if I put effort into it but I won't really be surprised.

EDIT: just checked - I have guides for C1 plastic explosives, chloroform, cluster bomb, incendiary grenade, Molotov cocktails, napalm, pipe grenade, ricin (some kind of deadly poison), 12 gauge shotgun (as in, how to make one), smoke grenade, and thermite.

 

[Friendly Lich]

Ok some people have made very good points. So have have a second more simple idea that I am sure has been thought of.

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security person in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security personnel in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

An armory and swat team in every school? I hope you like paying those taxes.

 

[Friendly Lich]

Every single one of my schools was near a road. Unless you really limited the range it would probably go off a few times a day. And if you limit the range to just the interior of the school then you are cutting the time.

Also, you have provided no word on how to get such a device onto every single gun even just in the US. Also, how to make the device tamper proof. Finally, something with that kind of range would need an electrical charge. Are you going to impose a felony every time someone forgets to charge their gun?

To put it simply, with current technology the plan is completely unworkable.

As for your second point, one, bullet resistant vests are not fun to have on and therefore no one is going to wear it for 8 hours a day under the very remote chance that there is a shooter. And even if they did, most schools are too large for that to make much of a difference. It would most likely still take at least a minute for them to get from one side of the school to the other.

So we shouldn't try at all because it would take time to walk around the school? Nothing is perfect we cant completely stop crime but we can mitigate it some lives would be saved. I think its worth it.

 

[Friendly Lich]

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security personnel in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

An armory and swat team in every school? I hope you like paying those taxes.

No only one trained person with a one gun. It would be enough.

 

[DoPo]

Ok some people have made very good points. So have have a second more simple idea that I am sure has been thought of.

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security personnel in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

Yes, this seems like a better idea. As in, enhance the existing security, I'm not sure about having literally armed personnel for that. As for why not have it...I don't know. Maybe schools can't justify the expenses. Maybe it's not something they feel would be a problem for them. They could be correct or not on this - it matters little if that's their decision. Also, statistically speaking, school shootings are quite rare - compare how many do happen, to the amount of school days (multiplied by schools) and it doesn't seem high. Now, again, whether or not that's correct or not matters little - it is a factor (some?) schools can use to decide that they don't need to bother.

My take on it is but there is no one perfect solution[footnote]let's ignore the obvious idiom here[/footnote]. School shootings are caused by a wide range of factors. You'd better work to remove the itself, rather than just limit the manifestations. Of course, you'd better work on both ends. Security is never an easy thing - if anybody claims the opposite, they are either lying or wrong, having a single solution is...not a solution. Enhance the security, make sure people are safe, but also work on people wanting to shoot others, and reduce their chances to do so. In general that's it. Not an easy task, though.

 

[Soviet Steve]

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security personnel in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

An armory and swat team in every school? I hope you like paying those taxes.

No only one trained person with a one gun. It would be enough.

Call be a bastard who plays Hitman more than he should but were I a shooter I know who my first target would be and what room I'd be heading off to loot afterward then.

 

[Friendly Lich]

So we shouldn't try at all because it would take time to walk around the school? Nothing is perfect we cant completely stop crime but we can mitigate it some lives would be saved. I think its worth it.

No we should not do it because it would take about as long for that officer to get to the right place as it would for police to arrive in numbers. Besides, few officers would face any attacker by themselves even in full body armor.

You are saying it would take the same amount of time for a person stationed inside the school to run over to the sound of shooting as it would for police to be called, mobilized, travel, and find the location inside the school where the shooting is happening?

 

[Wadders]

That way people who buy and play games wont have access to weapons, and this kind of tragedy will never happen again.

At least someone found the time to crack a joke in here.

Aye, maybe it's not in the best taste, but there's a lot of doom 'n gloom around these parts...

 

[Scythe]

I don't think putting big, burly guys in black body armour carrying guns in the middle of a school - as a means to prevent a shooting, no less - is a great idea.

Just seems like saying 'mine's bigger than yours' to the would-be shooter out there.

I'd rather people get to the root of the problem.

 

[senordesol]

A School Security Officer may not be too horrible an idea, but it would be a significant cost/purpose asking. Paying to have an armed officer on hand with a less than .00001% he'd actually ever need to use it is a huge cost with not a lot of added safety. Even if he needed his weapon in a hurryl if he's not fast enough on the draw then you're back to where we started.

I think your heart's in the right place, but what you're asking is simply economically unfeasible.

 

[Professor Lupin Madblood]

Ok some people have made very good points. So have have a second more simple idea that I am sure has been thought of.

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security person in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

There was a post I saw on 4chan about this. I don't know how to work images on these forums, so I'll just quote it.

Yes, because instead of being responsible and looking at restricting gun ownership we should be taking steps to enable our teachers to be armed with Glocks and possibly have an AR over their shoulder. I've always thought a better solution to gun control is simply to have the teachers engage the shooter in a firefight in the classroom.

Maybe the teacher should have a pillbox of sorts with just a microphone to speak to students and a few holes for shooting out of.

The issue was arming teachers rather than having guards, the the point still stands. Increasing the number of guns and bullets in the air will not make children safe, weirdly enough.

In terms of prevention, authority is not the answer. Any first-year psychology student could tell you that someone acting from their id (the impulsive part of the mind, responsible for ideas such as "I'll shoot up the school, that'll teach those fuckers") does not react well to authority/ideas from the superego (the elevated part of the mind).

Like, you ever do something dumb and impulsive, and when your parents/teacher lecture about it, you get defensive, even if you know it was dumb and impulsive? And then you'll start mouthing off, or just being defiant for the sake of being defiant? It's that feeling, but it would be told to you every single day by people with guns. Not a good way to encourage co-operation and trust.

The best solution is, will continue to be, and always has been to both limit and enforce gun control and to reform and improve society so that the factors that lead to school shootings (mental health, cultural values, interactions with peers, etc.) are reduced. You need to treat the disease, not the symptom.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

I can see two things happening.

1: People breaking the chips and going on a killing spree.

2: Kids striping said chips out of guns and hiding them on others for LOL's, free days off school and to disrupt tests.

 

[Ryotknife]

Ok some people have made very good points. So have have a second more simple idea that I am sure has been thought of.

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security person in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

the intimidation factor might scare away some potential shooters, but if a person is dead set in all likelyhood that officer will be killed as the shooter will get the drop on him and kill him before the officer even realizes there is a threat. You would also need to implement something to give the officer a headsup that trouble might be brewing before bulets start flying.

That said....an officer in schools might be a good idea even without the whole shootings angle. Kids are becoming twats. Ive heard stories of 2nd graders STABBING people, and not even in ghetto schools. Plus it might cut down on bullying, although the officer should not be attached to the education system in terms of chain of command. Let him take orders only from his precinct.

Course there is an economical side. City schools may very well be able to afford an extra officer (so long as it doesnt come from the education budget). Rural areas? no way in hell. although city schools are probably more in danger of shootings, so it may be a moot point.

 

[Friendly Lich]

Ok some people have made very good points. So have have a second more simple idea that I am sure has been thought of.

Why cant we have at least one trained and ballistic armored security person in each school to take out shooters going on rampages in schools? It would provide people with some jobs and a trained professional would do well against the average young shooter.

There was a post I saw on 4chan about this. I don't know how to work images on these forums, so I'll just quote it.

Yes, because instead of being responsible and looking at restricting gun ownership we should be taking steps to enable our teachers to be armed with Glocks and possibly have an AR over their shoulder. I've always thought a better solution to gun control is simply to have the teachers engage the shooter in a firefight in the classroom.

Maybe the teacher should have a pillbox of sorts with just a microphone to speak to students and a few holes for shooting out of.

The issue was arming teachers rather than having guards, the the point still stands. Increasing the number of guns and bullets in the air will not make children safe, weirdly enough.

In terms of prevention, authority is not the answer. Any first-year psychology student could tell you that someone acting from their id (the impulsive part of the mind, responsible for ideas such as "I'll shoot up the school, that'll teach those fuckers") does not react well to authority/ideas from the superego (the elevated part of the mind).

Like, you ever do something dumb and impulsive, and when your parents/teacher lecture about it, you get defensive, even if you know it was dumb and impulsive? And then you'll start mouthing off, or just being defiant for the sake of being defiant? It's that feeling, but it would be told to you every single day by people with guns. Not a good way to encourage co-operation and trust.

The best solution is, will continue to be, and always has been to both limit and enforce gun control and to reform and improve society so that the factors that lead to school shootings (mental health, cultural values, interactions with peers, etc.) are reduced. You need to treat the disease, not the symptom.

Improve society? that's quite an undertaking.