I have lost a lot of respect for 3rd party AAA developers

[Negatempest]

And the Escapist forum members know exactly who I am speak of. I would love to say and used to say, "Hey, there is only just a few bad apples in the basket." What I have to say now is, "There is only a few good apples in the basket." It is just the culmination of so many bad moves done and so many people forgiving them for those moves that now, for myself, I just don't think highly of the developers.
It used to be just EA and Activision people would find fault it mostly just over milking franchises. Fans knowing that those franchises would die out early. That was the worst thing we customers spoke of in the beginning of the generation. But know, milking franchises is one of the least troubling actions the 3rd party developers have done. At the end of 7th generation we are facing so many bad moves done by 3rd party it is insane and we would of never have believed it in the beginning of gen7 if someone spoke out about the future.
We are now buying a majority of our games with bug issues or feel like no one ever actually tested the game for quality. We are finding unlockable content on the disk behind pay walls. DLC cost for simple skins, weapons or maps is getting out of hand. Every terrible choice 3rd parties make is quickly forgotten or forgiven by comparing the choice to other bad choices. Even though those choices were terrible to start with. We have also lost tons of developers in the 7th gen.
I kinda ran into the forum post from Neogaf.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459131
Blew my freakin mind on how much we have lost in the 7th gen. We have far less the developer variety now than we have in the past and we are stuck with those that just don't care.
The Beta games, the PR speak, the overpriced and exploitable DLC from 3rd party is now, to me, out of hand. I very much believe they do not deserve the respect and reverence they have now. I would love nothing more now than to see Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo depend less on 3rd party titles and focus more on the IP's they have now. We all know Sony and Microsoft do have old IP's they can improve on or even use the studios they have now to make new IP's.

Edit:To clarify I am speaking of AAA Developers. Indie developers are doing their own thing and I am glad they exist.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

You mean publishers, most AAA devs are owned or controlled by them now. Apart from a few stragglers and ones with alternate revenue streams I don't think there are vary many independent AAA devs left.

 

[Savagezion]

At the end of 7th generation we are facing so many bad moves done by 3rd party it is insane and we would of never have believed it in the beginning of gen7 if someone spoke out about the future.

That's true. Some people called this back then and many, many more made excuses and dismissed the claims as naysaying.

Granted bugs as a whole are unavoidable so I don't count that. IN 10 years people are gonna be saying "You remember back in the good ol' days of PS3 and 360 when games didn't have bugs?" and you'll be there to say "Uh, no." However, DLC becoming a scam, I don't know how people didn't see that coming. What gets me is how much CoD really effected the market this gen. I did not see that coming on MW1's release at all. Yeah, it was an awesome game I played the shit out of but I would have never guessed Bioware would aim for that audience with a medieval fanatsy RPG... I still can't believe it. It's insane.
I was just talking to my buddy about all the early access games plaguing steam. To hell with untested, they aren't even in Beta yet. It's no wonder how War Z happened and it will happen a few more times no doubt. It also still blows my mind people were defending Microsoft yanking consumer rights away. People are forgetting games are a source of entertainment, not an every day NEED. Publishers know this and are taking full advantage. It's the reason I decided for the first time in 15 years I ain't buying a new console on launch. The gaming industry boomed this generation and I have a feeling a lot of people are going to get burned across the board early on this upcoming generation. WIth growth in the industry as large as it is, publishers (the people with power) have plenty of flex room to see what they can get away with.

 

[WeepingAngels]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Yeah see I don't buy into that "it's only the consumers fault" bullshit.

Companies who try to rip consumers off or try to restrict usage of a product they SOLD is the first at fault and the consumer is at fault if he/she buys it with full knowledge.

Toddlers also push their limits and it's up to parents to prevent them from going too far, that doesn't make the toddler innocent when they throw their food across the room.

 

[TehCookie]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Yeah see I don't buy into that "it's only the consumers fault" bullshit.

Companies who try to rip consumers off or try to restrict usage of a product they SOLD is the first at fault and the consumer is at fault if he/she buys it with full knowledge.

Toddlers also push their limits and it's up to parents to prevent them from going too far, that doesn't make the toddler innocent when they throw their food across the room.

People should be responsible for themselves, do you need big brother to tell you that DLC is a rip-off? If you're a toddler I would agree with you, but I'm an adult and I can make my own judgements without a government babysitter.

PS you shouldn't click the banners or e-mails that offer something for free either, it's a scam in case you had trouble telling.

 

[WeepingAngels]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Yeah see I don't buy into that "it's only the consumers fault" bullshit.

Companies who try to rip consumers off or try to restrict usage of a product they SOLD is the first at fault and the consumer is at fault if he/she buys it with full knowledge.

Toddlers also push their limits and it's up to parents to prevent them from going too far, that doesn't make the toddler innocent when they throw their food across the room.

People should be responsible for themselves, do you need big brother to tell you that DLC is a rip-off? If you're a toddler I would agree with you, but I'm an adult and I can make my own judgements without a government babysitter.

PS you shouldn't click the banners or e-mails that offer something for free either, it's a scam in case you had trouble telling.

Adults who run corporations should be responsible for their anti-consumer actions too, yeah? Greed isn't supposed to relieve people of responsibility.

 

[TehCookie]

Adults who run corporations should be responsible for their anti-consumer actions too, yeah? Greed isn't supposed to relieve people of responsibility.

How it is anti-consumer? A lot of consumers are fine with it and reward them with more money, the companies aren't forcing you to buy it. What would you call the responsibility of a game company about customer care? They're a luxury service, not a necessary one.

 

[WeepingAngels]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Yeah see I don't buy into that "it's only the consumers fault" bullshit.

Companies who try to rip consumers off or try to restrict usage of a product they SOLD is the first at fault and the consumer is at fault if he/she buys it with full knowledge.

Toddlers also push their limits and it's up to parents to prevent them from going too far, that doesn't make the toddler innocent when they throw their food across the room.

People should be responsible for themselves, do you need big brother to tell you that DLC is a rip-off? If you're a toddler I would agree with you, but I'm an adult and I can make my own judgements without a government babysitter.

PS you shouldn't click the banners or e-mails that offer something for free either, it's a scam in case you had trouble telling.

Adults who run corporations should be responsible for their anti-consumer actions too, yeah? Greed isn't supposed to relieve people of responsibility.

How it is anti-consumer? A lot of consumers are fine with it and reward them with more money, the companies aren't forcing you to buy it. What would you call the responsibility of a game company about customer care? They're a luxury service, not a necessary one.

Well obviously the people who are blaming consumers for the state of AAA publishers do feel that they have been anti-consumer. Why would someone who agrees that these companies are engaging in anti-consumer behavior blame ONLY the consumer?

 

[TehCookie]

Well obviously the people who are blaming consumers for the state of AAA publishers do feel that they have been anti-consumer. Why would someone who agrees that these companies are engaging in anti-consumer behavior blame ONLY the consumer?

I don't see it as anti-consumer, but I will admit to being a cheapskate.

If it didn't sell do you really think a greedy company would keep doing something that doesn't earn them money?

 

[WeepingAngels]

Well obviously the people who are blaming consumers for the state of AAA publishers do feel that they have been anti-consumer. Why would someone who agrees that these companies are engaging in anti-consumer behavior blame ONLY the consumer?

I don't see it as anti-consumer, but I will admit to being a cheapskate.

If it didn't sell do you really think a greedy company would keep doing something that doesn't earn them money?

I already know that YOU don't see it as anti-consumer but some people do and some of those people have said that it is ONLY the consumer to blame.

Now I ask you, do you believe that "anything goes" in the pursuit of money? Do you believe corporations should have ethics or do you believe that they should do anything they can get away with in the pursuit of more money?

 

[TehCookie]

Well obviously the people who are blaming consumers for the state of AAA publishers do feel that they have been anti-consumer. Why would someone who agrees that these companies are engaging in anti-consumer behavior blame ONLY the consumer?

I don't see it as anti-consumer, but I will admit to being a cheapskate.

If it didn't sell do you really think a greedy company would keep doing something that doesn't earn them money?

I already know that YOU don't see it as anti-consumer but some people do and some of those people have said that it is ONLY the consumer to blame.

Now I ask you, do you believe that "anything goes" in the pursuit of money? Do you believe corporations should have ethics or do you believe that should do anything they can get away with in the pursuit of more money?

It's not black and white, but I think LUXURY companies have more freedom. They're not infringing on any human rights or hurting anyone, all they did was make things more expensive.

 

[Lightknight]

So, you've decided to base your opinion of a group on an arbitrary distinction between AAA first party/AAA second party and AAA third party developers? An extremely varied group of businesses that fund large games, all of which differ in quality and scope?

That then means you only respect Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and anyone that they directly fund or control in some way.

It's always a little bit odd to throw such a wide group when making comments like this. Decisions on companies need to be made on a case by case basis. Valve is not responsible for things EA does anymore than Bethesda is responsible for things Nintendo does. These wild blanket complaints aren't far removed from stereotyping. It's just not offensive because these are large corporations and not defenseless masses.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Well obviously the people who are blaming consumers for the state of AAA publishers do feel that they have been anti-consumer. Why would someone who agrees that these companies are engaging in anti-consumer behavior blame ONLY the consumer?

I don't see it as anti-consumer, but I will admit to being a cheapskate.

If it didn't sell do you really think a greedy company would keep doing something that doesn't earn them money?

I already know that YOU don't see it as anti-consumer but some people do and some of those people have said that it is ONLY the consumer to blame.

Now I ask you, do you believe that "anything goes" in the pursuit of money? Do you believe corporations should have ethics or do you believe that should do anything they can get away with in the pursuit of more money?

It's not black and white, but I think LUXURY companies have more freedom. They're not infringing on any human rights or hurting anyone, all they did was make things more expensive.

I am not saying they are breaking any laws, just being unethical. They know that on disc DLC is bullshit but they do it anyway. They know that putting out buggy games for full price and letting early buyers beta test is bullshit but they do it anyway. On and on and on...

My only point is that the consumers are NOT the only party to be blamed here. I think that's a fair thing to say and I am surprised that people find corporations to be blameless for their own actions.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

I think what really gets me is the constant dodging of responsibility they do when it comes to their failures. Let's face it, a lot of the reason that DLC, buggy games, etc exist is because 3rd parties have become desperate to get every out of money they can out of their products. However, this also brings the question as to WHY they've let these budgets spiral out of control in the first place. Like most idiots who try to avoid responsibility they try to blame the consumer and thus have tried to push this DRM business which keeps failing time and time again. The fact of the matter is that there is only ONE party responsible for bloated spending in gaming: the 3rd parties.

It's not consumers or hardware makers EVER held a gun to 3rd parties' heads and demanded they spend tens of millions (and even HUNDREDS of millions) on games. No one has ever really demanded anything from them other than games being fun. And then of course we have their whining about the current systems being too weak for their beloved tech porn. I don't believe for one second that the 360 or the PS3 were tapped out; they had a few more years in them. But of course 3rd parties once again showed their recklessness and didn't pace themselves. We're probably going to go over this same song and dance in five years when in fact we should going over in ten. 3rd parties (especially big Western ones like Ubisoft, 2K, EA, Activision, etc) REALLY need to wake up and stop doing all this crap otherwise their problems are only going to get worse.

I would say Sony, MS, and Nintendo should put these idiots in their place, but unfortunately the former two gave 3rd parties WAY too much freedom and now they're abusing it. Whenever the 1st parties try to put their foot down on things, 3rd parties inevitably hold their breath and stamp their feet until they get their way. And of course Sony and MS, having not nearly as big of 1st party titles as Nintendo, cave in like a parent who just doesn't understand discipline. The way things are right now the only way 3rd parties are going to try to fix themselves is when something REALLY bad happens to them.

 

[DrOswald]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Ok, can someone please explain to me how Steam's DRM is so awful that it is ruining PC gaming? I really don't see it. People are constantly claiming that the Steam DRM is so terrible. Can someone please explain why? What does the Steam DRM prevent you from doing that is destroying PC gaming? I really don't understand.

 

[WeepingAngels]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Ok, can someone please explain to me how Steam's DRM is so awful that it is ruining PC gaming? I really don't see it. People are constantly claiming that the Steam DRM is so terrible. Can someone please explain why? What does the Steam DRM prevent you from doing that is destroying PC gaming? I really don't understand.

Reselling your games is the one thing I can think of.

 

[TehCookie]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Ok, can someone please explain to me how Steam's DRM is so awful that it is ruining PC gaming? I really don't see it. People are constantly claiming that the Steam DRM is so terrible. Can someone please explain why? What does the Steam DRM prevent you from doing that is destroying PC gaming? I really don't understand.

It keeps me from playing games, do I need another reason? If you never had issues, good for you. I'm not that lucky.

 

[DrOswald]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Ok, can someone please explain to me how Steam's DRM is so awful that it is ruining PC gaming? I really don't see it. People are constantly claiming that the Steam DRM is so terrible. Can someone please explain why? What does the Steam DRM prevent you from doing that is destroying PC gaming? I really don't understand.

It keeps me from playing games, do I need another reason? If you never had issues, good for you. I'm not that lucky.

When did it do this? What were the circumstances? I see claims like this all the time but no one ever actually explains. What happened? Are you sure it was the Steam DRM? Were you locked out of a specific game or all your games? Was it for a 10 minutes or a week? Give me details. Tell me exactly what the problem was. Because the vague assertion that "It stops me from playing my games" is essentially meaningless.

 

[TehCookie]

There is only one party at fault in this: the consumer. People need to learn to vote with their wallets. Companies do this stuff because they are always trying to expand their revenue, it's our responsibility to tell them when they've gone to far. If you just keep buying into it they'll see no reason to back down from it.

Case in point:

People don't pre-order the X-bone; Microsoft changes policies.

Pc Gamers complain but still buy stuff with DRM; Steam/Origin/Uplay continue to ruin PC gaming

Ok, can someone please explain to me how Steam's DRM is so awful that it is ruining PC gaming? I really don't see it. People are constantly claiming that the Steam DRM is so terrible. Can someone please explain why? What does the Steam DRM prevent you from doing that is destroying PC gaming? I really don't understand.

It keeps me from playing games, do I need another reason? If you never had issues, good for you. I'm not that lucky.

When did it do this? What were the circumstances? I see claims like this all the time but no one ever actually explains. What happened? Are you sure it was the Steam DRM? Were you locked out of a specific game or all your games? Was it for a 10 minutes or a week? Give me details. Tell me exactly what the problem was. Because the vague assertion that "It stops me from playing my games" is essentially meaningless.

How is it meaningless? Is it impossible to conceive that Steam is not perfect and has issues?

Sometimes I'm playing a game and it kicks me out because I lost connection (not only in always on DRM like AssCreed, but also in games like Skyrim that don't have extra DRM). Other times it kicks me out of Steam and won't let me log in at all without internet, and my internet goes down daily. It won't play DMC4, I only get a black screen when the cracked version runs fine. On several occasions with Skyrim and VtmB it would screw up the game with updates when I told it not to. It's not one problem, it's several. I don't use it much anymore.