"I know how to end misogyny. Ban women!" Fucking genius (I can't make a title facepalm)

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bringer of illumination said:
What a load of crap.

Any power disparity that may be between the genders (which, in western world, at this point virtually only exists in the form of a generational gap, and will all but disappear when 50-somethings of today have died) does NOT in any way shape or form justify double standards.

Women have women only things all the time. Hell many of them have women only events with the sole purpose of holding speeches and complaining about how bad men are, and society hails those as empowered.

You can't have it both ways, if women get to have women only events, then men get to too, and you don't get to complain about it.

Edited for corrections.
Double standards are definitely something to be noted and criticized, however such things don't occur in a vacuum. There are reasons why such double standards today exist(racism, sexism). How bad does it sound that there are videogame events BANNING potential female customers from participating(like years before) because they are incapable of regulating their own establishment? I mean, what kind of messed up message does that send to everyone, especially women?

If such events become "men only" through a dubious line of reasoning, we have no right to complain about it? Men only establishments by themselves are not a bad thing, but they don't simply exist because of the nature of sexual harassment. We have to open our doors to all walks of life, not just men.

But its their establishment, so I can rail against their decision...its still their choice.
 

peruvianskys

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bringer of illumination said:
What a load of crap.

Any power disparity that may be between the genders (which, in western world, at this point virtually only exists in the form of a generational gap, and will all but disappear when 50-somethings of today have died) does NOT in any way shape or form justify double standards.

Women have women only things all the time. Hell many of them have women only events with the sole purpose of holding speeches and complaining about how bad men are, and society hails those as empowered.

You can't have it both ways, if women get to have women only events, then men get to too, and you don't get to complain about it.

Edited for corrections.
It's a double standard? It's also a "double standard" that 97% of all rapes are against women by men. It's a "double standard" that women consistently get paid less than their male counterparts. It's a "double standard" that health care for women is massively underfunded compared to healthcare for men (when prevalence of male vs female illnesses are taken into account). So until you are afraid to walk down the street at night or afraid to, for example, attend a video game event because you don't want to be abused verbally, then you're living in a goddamn double standard, my friend, and you have no right to complain about how women don't want sexist bullshit permeating their lives any more than it already does.
 

manythings

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bringer of illumination said:
manythings said:
Secondly, what's missing from all the "how come it's only sexist when men do it" stuff is any kind of consideration of power. Men simply have more power in our society (and most societies) than women. It's not a numbers game (my fiancee went to a school that had a 70/30 women men split, but was it was super traditionally religious and run by openly sexist men and she remembers, despite women having the numerical advantage, it being a really hostile environment). If you're a man with a real man-hating woman for a boss, the odds are very much in your favor that she answers to a man higher up than her. If you're a woman with a real misogynistic guy for a boss, odds are that if there's a woman above him, she's it. It's dudes all the way to the top. As such, men often have a much easier time creating all male spaces. They might not be officially all male, hell, they might even be disallowed to say they're all male for some kind of legal reason, but the are de facto all male.
What a load of crap.

Any power disparity that may be between the genders (which, in western world, at this point virtually only exists in the form of a generational gap, and will all but disappear when 50-somethings of today have died) does NOT in any way shape or form justify double standards.

Women have women only things all the time. Hell many of them have women only events with the sole purpose of holding speeches and complaining about how bad men are, and society hails those as empowered.

You can't have it both ways, if women get to have women only events, then men get to too, and you don't get to complain about it.

Edited for corrections.
People keep telling me all about these fortresses filled with women that are apparently everywhere but I can only think of one thing, ever, that I've encountered and that's women only gyms which I can understand and would assume someone if people care that much will make a men only gym.

The women only train cars in japan are bullshit because of the amount of space reserved for women, who make up about 25-30% as I understand it, are bullshit because they get allocated about 40% of the train meaning the men are jammed in making the crowding issue worse. The women only insurer's are also bullshit but to my knowledge two exis in the world.

I really know of nothing else that is women only on this whole fucking planet. I know of things that "Men don't want to go to" things that exist but none of them are women exclusive.
 

TheWritenator

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Way to reinforce the sterotype guys
Jokes on them, they're losing money.
Let say for arguments sake that out of 100 people who want to attend, 10 are female. So by banning the females they lose $500. If they put up a sign saying something along the lines of "inapproprite behavouir will not be tolarated. Anyone who behaves inappropritely will be asked to leave and will not be refunded their registration fee." They lose no money, lose no face, and get rid of the dipsh*ts who are ruinning everyone elses fun.
 

Laurie Barnes

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Ickorus said:
So basically they are afraid of women, OK then! Ladies, by the sounds of it this is not a huge loss for you.

That is so ridiculous I actually thought this was going to be a joke thread when I saw it.
I agree with Ickorus here. Sure it's a bit of a shitty deal ladies, but look on the bright side, you can go out on the town, and not fear harassment because all the guys who would harass you would apparently be attending this Lan Party, because that is the only logical extreme that would call for such asinine behavior from the even organizers.

Also Ickorus, I swatted my screen because I thought your avatar was a real fly.
 

SinisterGehe

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If it is a private event, then the organizers can ban anyone they want from it, even other males...
And believe me, people talk like only men can be sexist, I ensure you, women aren't any better... They talk just as much shit about us than we do about them...

And can someone finally clarify me this:
WHAT THE HELL! IS THE OTHER HUMAN RACE? Far as I know, there is only homo sapiens!

Still I love the idea of straight "masculine" guys enforce their masculinity by driving women away from their presence, life is ironic sometimes... But whatever... Still the women hating part of gaming community is still and always will be a loud minority.
 

ms_sunlight

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Dragunai said:
(Rules for "understanding guys" snipped)
Look, we get it. We understand trash talking. Women trash talk at competetive events too. We trash talk each other. There is a line though. Tell me I'm a punk and I'm going to get owned. Tell me in great detail exactly why I am a loser and why I will fail. Use profanity if you want.

Just don't use language that is derogatory to my gender. Don't call me a ***** or a slut or a c***. I would hope it would go without saying that this is not acceptable, just like racist terms should not be acceptable. Most especially don't tell me I'm going to get raped. You know what - for all you know I have been raped and I don't find the term to be very funny. Any given woman almost certainly knows of a friend or family member who has been, if they haven't themselves.

We actually have no idea what occurences prompted PowersGaming to ban women from this event; all the Kotaku story and related blog coverage just reports what they said on their site, not the history of it, so it's difficult to speculate. It could be for something a hell of a lot more unpleasant than a bit of trash talking.
 

manythings

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bringer of illumination said:
manythings said:
People keep telling me all about these fortresses filled with women that are apparently everywhere but I can only think of one thing, ever, that I've encountered and that's women only gyms which I can understand and would assume someone if people care that much will make a men only gym.

The women only train cars in japan are bullshit because of the amount of space reserved for women, who make up about 25-30% as I understand it, are bullshit because they get allocated about 40% of the train meaning the men are jammed in making the crowding issue worse. The women only insurer's are also bullshit but to my knowledge two exis in the world.

I really know of nothing else that is women only on this whole fucking planet. I know of things that "Men don't want to go to" things that exist but none of them are women exclusive.
Are you kidding me?

I was talking about private events (like, oh i don't know, The LAN this thread is about) that are women only, and if you have never ever heard of any private women only event, concerts, island retreats, organisations, or anything like that, then you must be blind.
Apparently I must be, or they really just are in no way actually pervasive enough to ever even be noticed. I keep being told they're everywhere but where, where the fuck are they all hiding if I can't even notice them tangentially.
 

Raddra

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manythings said:
(I can't make a title facepalm)
Here's a title facepalm for you:

/)_-

Works ok!

As for the issue.. well, I really can't see a need for it. Are they really so afraid of getting beaten by girls? How old are they, 10?
 

Dragunai

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ms_sunlight said:
Dragunai said:
(Rules for "understanding guys" snipped)
Look, we get it. We understand trash talking. Women trash talk at competetive events too. We trash talk each other. There is a line though. Tell me I'm a punk and I'm going to get owned. Tell me in great detail exactly why I am a loser and why I will fail. Use profanity if you want.

Just don't use language that is derogatory to my gender. Don't call me a ***** or a slut or a c***. I would hope it would go without saying that this is not acceptable, just like racist terms should not be acceptable. Most especially don't tell me I'm going to get raped. You know what - for all you know I have been raped and I don't find the term to be very funny. Any given woman almost certainly knows of a friend or family member who has been, if they haven't themselves.

We actually have no idea what occurences prompted PowersGaming to ban women from this event; all the Kotaku story and related blog coverage just reports what they said on their site, not the history of it, so it's difficult to speculate. It could be for something a hell of a lot more unpleasant than a bit of trash talking.
Saying a gamer got raped in a game, having suffered a serious defeat, is an expression that gets used as casually as adding Lol to a statement on Facebook. Yes it is really insensitive but you're forgetting, they're at a gaming event not a human rights movement, they don't care and don't WANT to care about these things. They wanna play some Battlefield, drink some beer and have a good time, not worry every few seconds about upsetting someone.

As I said, people will find points where they disagree with me and I accept that. Yes you're right girls can handle trash talk and hand it out in equal measure.
Yes, you are right that we don't know the full story but the following facts CAN be gleaned:

1 - It's a gaming convention
2 - Women attended in the past
3 - There were problems in that gaming community

So the logical conclusion is that the men were offensive to the women and backlash resulted.

Why are the women being banned if the men were to blame?

Most probably because the sales figures for tickets sold showed more men than women and thus the logical path for any company is to simply remove the smaller group to maximize profits. In this case the female gamers found themselves in the minority.

It's completely unfair if my assumptions are even close to being right but this is the world we live in and it is ruled by money not human decency.

Personally I'd rather see it ruled with Candy Floss. Everyone's a winner then.
 

peruvianskys

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bringer of illumination said:
You know what is a double standard though? The fact that it is judged that less than 10% of male rapes are ever reported (which also means that your numbers are COMPLETELY inaccurate) because the men are afraid that they'll be seen as weak and because the justice system completely overlooks them and hardly EVER takes them seriously and when they do the female rapists hardly EVER get punished near as hard as male rapists do. And as someone who knows a male rape victim i quite frankly think that you should SHUT YOUR FUCKING MOUTH before addressing an issue you have no understanding of.
Fewer male rapes are reported vs. female rapes and the fact that often male victims are ridiculed is absurd and terrible, no question. However, those numbers are still not inaccurate because they take the general lack of rape reportage in general into account. Even the lowest estimates place more than 93% of rapes in the hands of men against women. Male/male or male/female rape is definitely a huge issue but that doesn't change the fact that men do not have to deal with rape in nearly the same way, nor is rape so systematically prevalent in American (and world) culture when men are concerned. People should be sensitive to male rape victims, no question, and I certainly didn't mean for that statement of fact to seem offensive. But saying that heart disease mostly affects the obese isn't insensitive to people with congenital heart defects and saying that almost all rapes are male-on-female isn't being insensitive to those who break the pattern.

And as for your second statement, there is a difference between "adding another double standard" and adjusting for the reality of the situation. If a woman said "We get raped more so I want free postage" then that's just another double standard, but if a woman says "Men are consistently abusing my gender so, when dealing with issues related to my gender, I want to only deal with women" is not a double standard at all; it's just a rational response, whereas the male "equivalent" is not.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Stall said:
Who cares? This is a private event. The organizers can do whatever they want. They have total and absolute control over who is allowed to attend their event. What? Are people not allowed to CHOOSE who THEY want in a private event? Maybe people don't have control over their private events in some European countries, but in American countries, people kind of have this right to choose who they admit to their private event.

Besides, think about what happened if we flipped the gender of this whole incident. Would anyone care? Would anyone think its sexist? Would the OP had made a thread about how the event is perpetuating misandry? To be quite forward, it's sexist that people think men can't have the freedom to form a gender-exclusionary event if they so choose, since if women had done this, people would not care. This entire thread just goes to prove the existence of the tons of double standards that exist in society, and the problems facing men in modern society. It's fucking despicable. Hell, 50 bucks says that if this was a female only event, people would be running around fucking praising how it is "PROGRESSIVE" or some shit; yet when men do it, it's sexist. I hate society sometimes...
The problem is that they are taking on the problem of "guys being dickweeds when women are around" by banning the women. They are not holding those who actually cause the problem accountable. It's an easy and cowardly way out. And I personally hope all of those dickweeds proceed to rot their community into incoherent nothingness.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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I, for one, do question the legality of the exclusionary policy. I'm pretty sure that if this event had a rule that excluded, say, non-whites or people of Jewish descent, there would be an equal uproar and not only actual legal recourse, but action in progress. I also suspect that folks on this thread would be less inclined to defend the rights or even the moral justification of this Texas LAN party if they were excluding based on race.

Yes, there still remain some gender segregated organizations and events in our civilization, but really it's only because such events are grandfathered, which is to say, they've been around for much longer than the concept that women are (or should be) equal under law to men. Such traditions also serve as an embarrassing reminder to those barbaric times. Interestingly, all incidents of organizations which exclude on basis race or ethnicity have long since abandoned such official positions.[footnote]Churches, interestingly, are still allowed to reserve specific events exclusively for members of that specific faith. Most publicly, the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints is notably exclusionary, as is the Church of Scientology. This has become an issue of debate not because non-members want to attend such events (Though this is the case regarding weddings and funerals.) but because of human abuses that are tolerated outside public scrutiny, about which we only hear in tell-all expositions of evicted or excommunicated members. In largely religious regions of the US, we do see plenty of Christian-only events, which become of issue when there's a conflict about who is or is not a Christian.[/footnote] Do we think women are less deserving than non-white men?

I would also agree with the sentiment that this is not only an insult to women (who are presumed to be an inherently disruptive factor at this event) but also to the men who might participate in such an event. It presumes that a) men are barbarian apes, lacking the capacity for civilized appropriate behavior at all, let alone in the presence of women (aggravated, I suppose, by the GIFT [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/3/19/], which seems to still apply out of habit in LAN parties), and b) The hosts are too milquetoast to enforce a modicum of civility, from which one can infer that a food fight, a riot or a drunken brawl will also overwhelm security.

So, yes, this is generalized bigotry at its worst. Of course, what would you expect from Texas?

238U.[footnote]In the event that Escapist requires me to view a commercial before getting a code, I will simply not post. Depending on the frequency, this may temper or cease my future participation in the Escapist community. Apologies in advance, if this policy prevents me from replying to you when it is proper to do so.[/footnote]
 

DementedSheep

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So...because there are some guys being assholes, you?re going to ban the people doing nothing wrong? Brilliant.
 

Littlee300

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TheDarkEricDraven said:
Amazing! We, the human race, have finaly started activly punishing the victim. Awesome. G'job everyone.
"Hate is healing"

Edit: I have thought "How would society get rid of discriminating scholarships. Like Black or Women only ones. I figured the easiest way would be to get tons of white male only ones then when rest of society complains about it they will have to agree that black or women only ones need to be taken away too.

Edit 2: But also there is that quote "The only way to get rid of racism is to stop talking about it" Perhaps that doesn't imply here since feminist will not stop until they are superior although they can learn from the quote.
 

Chemical Alia

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Uriel-238 said:
Yes, there still remain some gender segregated organizations and events in our civilization, but really it's only because such events are grandfathered, which is to say, they've been around for much longer than the concept that women are (or should be) equal under law to men. Such traditions also serve as an embarrassing reminder to those barbaric times. Interestingly, all incidents of organizations which exclude on basis race or ethnicity have long since abandoned such official positions.Do we think women are less deserving than non-white men?
My dad is the president of one of those clubs that Fred Flintstone belongs to. He joined back in the 70's, and as a private organization it has always offered membership to men only, and pretty much only white men of certain backgrounds. The reason he always gave is that if they allowed women or minorities to go, they would disrupt the atmosphere the members liked and inevitably "cause trouble", directly or indirectly. It always bothered me and made me feel bad and that I must be a burden on some level, but wrote it off as a backwards thing and the product of older generations. To see the same reasoning applied to banning women from a gaming event today is disheartening. Not even the Duke Nukem Forever launch party disallowed women. I'd rather make the decision myself, whether or not to go to an event, regardless of how high the likelihood is of suffering verbal abuse while there.

I guess I'll just have to attend one of those women-only Battlefield 3 launch parties that there are so many of.
 

Notashrimp09

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Uriel-238 said:
I, for one, do question the legality of the exclusionary policy. I'm pretty sure that if this event had a rule that excluded, say, non-whites or people of Jewish descent, there would be an equal uproar and not only actual legal recourse, but action in progress. I also suspect that folks on this thread would be less inclined to defend the rights or even the moral justification of this Texas LAN party if they were excluding based on race.
I also questioned the legality in great detail earlier in this forum debate.