I Like My Fighting F**ktoy's

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Therumancer

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erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.

And for the love of Christ, when I criticize female characters like this I am not criticizing the people who enjoy them. No one is saying you're a bad person for enjoying it. Chill. Out.
Well it amounts to the same thing because if people didn't enjoy them they wouldn't exist.

The thing though is that people need to understand this whole "hypersexualized character" thing is not gender specific and appeals to both genders. Typically Sarkeesian-type feminists need to argue that the overdone guys represent a male power fantasy so they don't count as the same thing, when they actually do, because the girls looking that way represents a power fantasy as well. You'll notice when women create fantasy characters they are typically extremely hot, and tend to dress just as outrageously. Arguably when it comes to girls writing for a female audience they tend to be worse than guys are which is where the whole "Mary Sue" thing comes from. What's more when it comes to sexual content I'll say girls are far more into that than guys are, and tend to be nastier about it as well. One of the ironic things about these whole discussions is that for the most part they stem from women pushing to be included in everything AND to have romantic and emotional subplots added into everything to appeal to them... and yes women gravitate heavily towards romance and such, as you can tell by the sheer number of books churned out on those topics, which they are hardly being held at gunpoint to produce by some kind of militant patriarchy. See the odd thing is that dudes tend to be a lot simpler and can be quite content with stories about brotherly bonding, a few guys against the environment, or whatever else. Society has gotten to the point where this is viewed as being wrong, and it means female characters need to be tacked in everywhere, and of course simply treating them like another guy who just happens to not be a guy is a no-no. Take say "Lord Of The Rings" for example, that's almost a complete bro-fest, but for the movies they greatly extended the roles of a lot of female characters and even created new ones (Tauriel) adding in more feminine and emotive subplots other than "WAR! DEFEAT THE DARKNESS, BROHOOD WILL SAVE THE WORLD!".

The point here is that there is not an issue unless people want to make one, and really a lot of problems tend to come about as a result of people trying to force changes and make people to conform to specific political ideals. By definition the creative process is not something that is ever going to be politically correct or socially balanced, and nor should it be.

At any rate, more on the subject, the thing about skimpy costumes in unlikely situations is because it looks cool, and it adds to the badassitude of a character when they can apparently get away with dressing like that despite the absurdity of it. It also applies to both genders, for example guys run around with these huge beefcake arms, showing off unlikely amounts of muscle definition (and let's be honest, that appeals to most girls, the dudes pumping iron at the beach to get and maintain arms like that usually don't have any shortage of female admirers), I mean heck even if they had the potential for that kind of muscle definition it's not likely sweat would consistently fall to show it off perfectly, or say Marcus Fenix is going to sit around using Body Oil before he goes into combat. Likewise leaving your arms and legs uncovered is actually worse than a lack of torso protection due to shrapnel, splinters, running through brush, sliding across pavement, and the like. Some girl say running around in a bikini showing off her perfect body is similar, and like the above has a certain "I do it because I can" component. What's more if your dealing with fantasy and say bullets bounce off you, or your personal force field, why not flaunt what you have? People say complain about power girl showing her cleavage in DC comics for example, but notice real girls built anything like that tend to do the same thing when they can, the ones that complain are mostly girls who can't pull it off. What's more you can't say it makes no sense for what she does because really she doesn't need armor, attacks (including field artillery) against her fail because she's a Kryptonian and thus invulnerable to almost everything, so as a result she can dress like that if she wants to, and it makes a certain arrogant statement which actually fits the character, and it's also something a lot of girls IRL might do if they were that powerful. You'll also notice when girls create heroic characters they tend to behave very similarly. While not as super heroic pay attention sometime to what Rachael or Ivy wear in The Hollows books and even some of the jokes made about it (Rachael dressing like a streetwalker half the time comes up more than once), of course both characters are loaded with so much magic it doesn't much matter, especially later when Rachael really starts to explode on the power spectrum.

A big part of the equasion is how realistic your trying to be. If say the point of the game is that your female character is on a battlefield because she can literally do the fantastic stuff from a video game (dodge bullets, heal at a crazy rate, shoot with pinpoint accuracy, have a slowing mechanic of some sort) she can pretty much justify dressing however she wants to. The point is sort of to stand out because your at least a minor super hero, and half the point is supposed to be how crazy this is that one person is going to go running out there and change the entire course of a battle. In a purely realistic game that's different of course, but the really realistic games don't tend to be the ones complain about being obnoxious. Basically you don't see characters in "Call Of Duty" running around dressed like super models on a bikini runway unless your setting it up intentionally for lulz (it's not a game default). People rather tend to complain about characters like Bayonetta, where yeah... most women given that level of power and the looks she has would probably do something similar, and it's oddly exactly the kind of character a lot of women create. People talk about the crotch shots, dancing, and similar things, but understand that guys do that kind of thing as well, perhaps it's too modern for some people to really "get it" when it comes to girls "looking at the whole OMG Twerking responses IRL" but let's be blunt, Elvis was making money off of his Pelvis long before Bayonetta was a glimmer in the mind's eye, and you've seen guys doing sassy things in dance moves and even certain action scenes ever since, even if it's died out a bit except when a character is really Flamboyant. Zack from "Dead Or Alive" does a victory dance (male version) including Pelvic action at the end of DoA3 for example. I'm actually kind of surprised nobody drew the comparison between some of the "crotch action" in Bayonetta 2 and what was going on IRL with youth icons like Miley Cyrus (love her or hate her, she is one) basically it's less "female objectification" than a product of it's time, welcome to the 21st century. Also remember that while Miley got attention for this kind of thing, her daddy (Billy Ray) did the same stuff first and got the same kind of attention by shaking his hunky butt and package in front of women in too tight jeans and even getting right in their face or on their lap at times. It's pretty co-ed even if some people think it's outrageous, and frankly if anything I think Billy Ray went further proportionatly than Miley has because to my knowledge Miley has never done anything with random people in the audience.
 

Pr0

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erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
Lieju said:
Pr0 said:
Lieju said:
Pr0 said:
I grew up in a world where women are equal to men. I grew up in a world where gay relationships are completely normal. I grew up in a world where what made people happy was just fine as long as no one lost an eye.
Where do you live, and can I move there?
(Also are there dragons too? That would be perfect.)
No dragon's. But the rest of it is there, when I read back what I wrote its easy to see why people would say "We don't live in that world."

Heres the thing....WE don't have to live in that world. Its the world I choose to live in. You can live there too, so can anyone else. The world you live in is largely what you put in your own head anyways....actually biologically and neurologically that's 100% accurate.
I'm gonna be living in a world full of dragons from now on then, thanks for the advice.
Also I might choose to include some cats and all my pets.
Bye.
Sounds like a solid plan. I wish you luck and happiness.

erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.

And for the love of Christ, when I criticize female characters like this I am not criticizing the people who enjoy them. No one is saying you're a bad person for enjoying it. Chill. Out.
I'm not sure I'd appreciate a scantily clad female in a warzone either, you're right that would be lazy writing.

But where it fits and where the character fits the tone I don't see the issue.

And while you may not be saying that hetero-normative men that enjoy games like this are bad people, the general message being sent is "If you like boob armor, you're a terrorist".

Thats hyperbole, but the internet is BUILT on hyperbole.
Well if that's the case then there's no problem is there?

...Uh-huh. Forgive me if I feel like that's a bit of an overreaction.
It would be an over reaction amongst about 300 million huger over reactions at this point.
And that has what to do with anything? We're talking about what you said right now, not what other people said. And I'm sorry, I can't take the claim that people who dislike sexualized characters are saying "If you like boob armor you're a terrorist" seriously.
Granted but don't you think the polemic has shifted away from "we dislike sexualized characters" and more towards "sexualization of characters is wrong and the people that enjoy sexualized characters are the reason this problem exists".

There I took "terrorist" out of the hyperbolic simplification, perhaps its easier to run through the punch card machine and see if it checks out this time.
No, no no no. I will grant you that there is some "The sexualization of characters is wrong IF it serves no purpose other than to titillate." But people who enjoy it are part of the problem? No.

We're never gonna get anywhere in these discussions if everyone takes every criticism personally. I like sexy characters too. When they make sense.
Well I'm just saying its how its getting to me. As someone that literally has kept their head down the entire time. But I see the shifting landscape in various modding communities and how this is trickling down into game development at its lowest levels and it really makes me sit here and wonder what I'm supposed to enjoy if I'm allowed to enjoy anything at all.
 

Erttheking

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Pr0 said:
erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
Lieju said:
Pr0 said:
Lieju said:
Pr0 said:
I grew up in a world where women are equal to men. I grew up in a world where gay relationships are completely normal. I grew up in a world where what made people happy was just fine as long as no one lost an eye.
Where do you live, and can I move there?
(Also are there dragons too? That would be perfect.)
No dragon's. But the rest of it is there, when I read back what I wrote its easy to see why people would say "We don't live in that world."

Heres the thing....WE don't have to live in that world. Its the world I choose to live in. You can live there too, so can anyone else. The world you live in is largely what you put in your own head anyways....actually biologically and neurologically that's 100% accurate.
I'm gonna be living in a world full of dragons from now on then, thanks for the advice.
Also I might choose to include some cats and all my pets.
Bye.
Sounds like a solid plan. I wish you luck and happiness.

erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
erttheking said:
Pr0 said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.

And for the love of Christ, when I criticize female characters like this I am not criticizing the people who enjoy them. No one is saying you're a bad person for enjoying it. Chill. Out.
I'm not sure I'd appreciate a scantily clad female in a warzone either, you're right that would be lazy writing.

But where it fits and where the character fits the tone I don't see the issue.

And while you may not be saying that hetero-normative men that enjoy games like this are bad people, the general message being sent is "If you like boob armor, you're a terrorist".

Thats hyperbole, but the internet is BUILT on hyperbole.
Well if that's the case then there's no problem is there?

...Uh-huh. Forgive me if I feel like that's a bit of an overreaction.
It would be an over reaction amongst about 300 million huger over reactions at this point.
And that has what to do with anything? We're talking about what you said right now, not what other people said. And I'm sorry, I can't take the claim that people who dislike sexualized characters are saying "If you like boob armor you're a terrorist" seriously.
Granted but don't you think the polemic has shifted away from "we dislike sexualized characters" and more towards "sexualization of characters is wrong and the people that enjoy sexualized characters are the reason this problem exists".

There I took "terrorist" out of the hyperbolic simplification, perhaps its easier to run through the punch card machine and see if it checks out this time.
No, no no no. I will grant you that there is some "The sexualization of characters is wrong IF it serves no purpose other than to titillate." But people who enjoy it are part of the problem? No.

We're never gonna get anywhere in these discussions if everyone takes every criticism personally. I like sexy characters too. When they make sense.
Well I'm just saying its how its getting to me. As someone that literally has kept their head down the entire time. But I see the shifting landscape in various modding communities and how this is trickling down into game development at its lowest levels and it really makes me sit here and wonder what I'm supposed to enjoy if I'm allowed to enjoy anything at all.
To put this politely as possible, you are worrying about a problem that doesn't exist.

Look, I've been in that "Am I allowed to enjoy anything at all." Sexism doesn't make a game bad. It just means a game isn't perfect. It's only a problem if you flat out refuse to acknowledge potential sexism. Tell me one game that's perfect. It's a criticism of a game, a flaw. A single flaw. That's all.

Relax man.
 

Erttheking

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Topsider said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.
And I'm gonna call it out for what it is: unrealistic for her to be there in the first place, since we're always part of some secret squirrel group in these games, so she might as well throw on some butt floss. Boom. Went there. Wake me up when a woman makes it through BUD/S log PT.
Your post wasn't very clear. Squirrel group? Mind telling me exactly what that's supposed to be?
 

Pr0

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erttheking said:
To put this politely as possible, you are worrying about a problem that doesn't exist.

Look, I've been in that "Am I allowed to enjoy anything at all." Sexism doesn't make a game bad. It just means a game isn't perfect. It's only a problem if you flat out refuse to acknowledge potential sexism. Tell me one game that's perfect. It's a criticism of a game, a flaw. A single flaw. That's all.

Relax man.
But what makes a game sexist?



Does this make my Skyrim install sexist? I don't think so...maybe you do. My fiancee didn't, she forced me to install all my armor mods and edits on her copy so she could use them too.

What makes a game sexist can be a subjective quality. I mean there are obvious non-subjective instances (Ride to Hell: Retribution for example...pretty far down the line into "ya thats sexist"...but also a complete shit fest as games go so the sexism isn't half as bad as everything else the game does horribly), but wouldn't most instances be subjective?

EDIT: Fixed bad quoting...bad quoting..bad. No treat.
 

Loonyyy

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erttheking said:
Topsider said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.
And I'm gonna call it out for what it is: unrealistic for her to be there in the first place, since we're always part of some secret squirrel group in these games, so she might as well throw on some butt floss. Boom. Went there. Wake me up when a woman makes it through BUD/S log PT.
When you want to make your point a little more coherent so I can actually follow what you're talking about, feel free to message me.
Sounds like he's referring to the whole "Women in combat is unrealistic" thing, and then specifying what looks like some military training qualification. Which is a whole other bag of worms, but I wouldn't exactly agree with it for a number of reasons.

Apparently because women are unlikely to be serving members of the special forces, we might as well have them parading around in a thong if they're there.

And of course, people wonder if there's any sexism in our community. This would be exactly why people have problems with "Fighting fucktoy"s and what have you, apart from any talk of verismilitude.
 

Erttheking

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Loonyyy said:
erttheking said:
Topsider said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.
And I'm gonna call it out for what it is: unrealistic for her to be there in the first place, since we're always part of some secret squirrel group in these games, so she might as well throw on some butt floss. Boom. Went there. Wake me up when a woman makes it through BUD/S log PT.
When you want to make your point a little more coherent so I can actually follow what you're talking about, feel free to message me.
Sounds like he's referring to the whole "Women in combat is unrealistic" thing, and then specifying what looks like some military training qualification. Which is a whole other bag of worms, but I wouldn't exactly agree with it for a number of reasons.

Apparently because women are unlikely to be serving members of the special forces, we might as well have them parading around in a thong if they're there.

And of course, people wonder if there's any sexism in our community. This would be exactly why people have problems with "Fighting fucktoy"s and what have you, apart from any talk of verisimilitude.
*Head desk* There's something wrong with the world if we're ok with Dragons, Fire Demons, sentient corpses, giants, and the resurrection of the dead, but a woman in combat is just unthinkable. And if she is in combat, she needs to be wearing skimpy clothing because "She shouldn't be there anyway". Might as well put all men in thongs too because there's no way video game protagonists can kill as many men as they do without becoming psychopaths.
 

Pr0

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Loonyyy said:
erttheking said:
Topsider said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.
And I'm gonna call it out for what it is: unrealistic for her to be there in the first place, since we're always part of some secret squirrel group in these games, so she might as well throw on some butt floss. Boom. Went there. Wake me up when a woman makes it through BUD/S log PT.
When you want to make your point a little more coherent so I can actually follow what you're talking about, feel free to message me.
Sounds like he's referring to the whole "Women in combat is unrealistic" thing, and then specifying what looks like some military training qualification. Which is a whole other bag of worms, but I wouldn't exactly agree with it for a number of reasons.

Apparently because women are unlikely to be serving members of the special forces, we might as well have them parading around in a thong if they're there.

And of course, people wonder if there's any sexism in our community. This would be exactly why people have problems with "Fighting fucktoy"s and what have you, apart from any talk of verismilitude.
I was in the Navy, I knew plenty of female marines. While not specifically "Special Forces" these girls were rock solid soldiers with every right to wear the saber that their male counterparts had.

Also the IDF doesn't seem to have a problem with putting weapons in the hands of women. And most of the women in the IDF could probably kick the crap out of an entire room of gaming nerds so...yeah.
 

Erttheking

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Topsider said:
Loonyyy said:
Sounds like he's referring to the whole "Women in combat is unrealistic" thing, and then specifying what looks like some military training qualification. Which is a whole other bag of worms, but I wouldn't exactly agree with it for a number of reasons.
Women in combat is quite realistic.

Apparently because women are unlikely to be serving members of the special forces, we might as well have them parading around in a thong if they're there.
Women doing snake eater stuff is quite unrealistic. Once we breach the unrealism event horizon, it's only a matter of degrees.

I mean, shit; if we're going to shriek about a sexy outfit being unrealistic in a warzone, we might as well shriek about the Super Hornet in Battlefield 3 carrying twenty Sidewinders. The "realism" argument is decried, rightfully, everywhere except in debates about female outerwear. If people genuinely wanted realism, Arma'd sell a lot better than it does.
I don't advocate for realism when it comes to female outfits. I advocate for internal consistency. If the male soldiers are all in flak jackets, I want the female soldiers in flack jackets. If the female soldiers are all in thongs, I want the male soldiers all in thongs.
 

iTomes

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erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.

And for the love of Christ, when I criticize female characters like this I am not criticizing the people who enjoy them. No one is saying you're a bad person for enjoying it. Chill. Out. Or am I allowed to run around the forums saying how everyone is telling me I'm wrong for enjoying Halo and console gaming?
I agree with the general statement, but I would point out that theres also a certain element of stylistic decision there: A lot of games, most really, feature character designs that are in one way or another completely ridiculous in the sense that they are unpractical for whatever it is the characters in question are actually doing. A lot of games embrace ridiculous armor as part of their art style. In a world where armor is generally ridiculous I dont see a single problem with, well, armor being ridiculous and sexy.

Ultimately, I think the biggest issue comes up when the design for a certain character does not match the overall design of the world... When everybody is wearing somewhat realistic armor and carrying somewhat realistic weapons the one character looking completely ridiculous for whatever reason just feels annoyingly out of place.
 

Erttheking

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iTomes said:
erttheking said:
Because if it doesn't fit the tone of the story, if it's a female character who is scantily clad soldier in the middle of a modern war zone, I'm gonna call it what it is. Bad and lazy writing. All I want is consistent tone in my stories.

And for the love of Christ, when I criticize female characters like this I am not criticizing the people who enjoy them. No one is saying you're a bad person for enjoying it. Chill. Out. Or am I allowed to run around the forums saying how everyone is telling me I'm wrong for enjoying Halo and console gaming?
I agree with the general statement, but I would point out that theres also a certain element of stylistic decision there: A lot of games, most really, feature character designs that are in one way or another completely ridiculous in the sense that they are unpractical for whatever it is the characters in question are actually doing. A lot of games embrace ridiculous armor as part of their art style. In a world where armor is generally ridiculous I dont see a single problem with, well, armor being ridiculous and sexy.

Ultimately, I think the biggest issue comes up when the design for a certain character does not match the overall design of the world... When everybody is wearing somewhat realistic armor and carrying somewhat realistic weapons the one character looking completely ridiculous for whatever reason just feels annoyingly out of place.
If there's internal consistency, you won't hear any complaints from me...ok I might just not like the style in general, but you know what I mean.
 

renegade7

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Good for you. I don't, I think eye candy and fanservice are cheap and annoying and that they detract from the experience and make devs think they can use sex appeal to get away with lower quality writing and design.

Personally, I wouldn't see that revealing, even extremely revealing and blatantly sexualized, character designs are sexist, offensive, rape culture, misogynistic, etc. My criticism is much simpler: I think they just look stupid.

Now, it's all just entertainment and enjoyment of entertainment is subjective. If what you're looking for in your entertainment is eroticism, then that's fine, that can be entertaining. But personally, I'm looking for a more high-brow experience in my games.
 

Pr0

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renegade7 said:
Good for you. I don't, I think eye candy and fanservice are cheap and annoying and that they detract from the experience and make devs think they can use sex appeal to get away with lower quality writing and design.

Personally, I wouldn't see that revealing, even extremely revealing and blatantly sexualized, character designs are sexist, offensive, rape culture, misogynistic, etc. My criticism is much simpler: I think they just look stupid.

Now, it's all just entertainment and enjoyment of entertainment is subjective. If what you're looking for in your entertainment is eroticism, then that's fine, that can be entertaining. But personally, I'm looking for a more high-brow experience in my games.
See this is kind of what I'm talking about.

Its not that you have a different taste, its that you believe your taste to be superior to mine, its right there in the language you use.

Is a celebration of human sexuality and beauty really something to be looked down on? And what, exactly, in the gaming industry, offers a more "high-brow" experience that somehow disqualifies sex appeal as not just acceptable, but valid as a game design and story telling mechanic?

I mean I've been playing games since Space Invaders on upright consoles (can't claim Pong, it was invented the year I was born)...there aren't a lot of games I've played that I would consider "high brow" experiences, they're games...they are, by their very definition, indulgences of fantasy and wish fulfillment.

Now granted there are trash games, lots of them, but most of them can't even use sex to try to up their horrifying qualities.

So in the end, what I'm saying is its right there in your language and your attitude...you're basically demeaning me for openly admitting that I like women in my games, sexual, tastefully sexualized, whatever...you're basically saying that I'm somehow less intelligent or have lower standards than you do...just because of that.

I'd be interested in seeing what does meet your standards.
 

renegade7

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Pr0 said:
So in the end, what I'm saying is its right there in your language and your attitude...you're basically demeaning me for openly admitting that I like women in my games, sexual, tastefully sexualized, whatever...you're basically saying that I'm somehow less intelligent or have lower standards than you do...just because of that.

I'd be interested in seeing what does meet your standards.
No, I'm not. I'm stating my preference and the reasoning behind my preference. Sex appeal is easy, but a compelling character design and narrative is hard. I have limited time and money to spend on video games, therefore I have to be selective about which games I play and from my own perspective that means that, all other things being equal, between a game that features sexed-up and boring characters against one with more modest and deep characters, I am going to choose the latter.

I am sorry for my tone. That is not the message I intended to convey.

Pr0 said:
Is a celebration of human sexuality and beauty really something to be looked down on? And what, exactly, in the gaming industry, offers a more "high-brow" experience that somehow disqualifies sex appeal as not just acceptable, but valid as a game design and story telling mechanic?
But not every instance of sexuality is storytelling mechanics or an integration of sexuality into character development or a celebration of sexuality, and most is nothing even close. Also, beauty and aesthetic appeal even pertaining to the human form is not inherently a matter of sexuality. Example, compare Zelda's character design in TP to the women in Dead or Alive. While both are attractive, the former is not sexual, the latter is.

The other example is Samus, and while her character design is somewhat sexualized, her character is able to offer more to the story and to the game than aesthetic alone. In fact, I would say her example is best: in Samus's case, sexuality and beauty add in some small way to her humanity and therefore to the empathy of the playing audience, rather than define her character or being a key element of her character.

Characters, being the drivers of story-telling, direct the player's engagement with the story, and in a story-driven game, that means that the characters direct the player's experience of the game. But beyond that, there's not necessarily a clear answer, at least not one that I can give, because the quality of a game and its story isn't a sliding scale with "modest and deep" on one end and "oversexed and vapid" on the other. I'm not demonizing or demeaning the use of sexuality on the whole in game and character designs, but as a player who likes games for their stories, I find that a "less is more" approach tends to be ideal, otherwise it gets watered down and loses its power for character development. A character that is deep or complex is not precluded by default from sexuality, but a writer designing the character needs to walk a fine line between using sexuality and aesthetic appeal to add to the character and the game experience and using sexuality to define the character and game experience. Enjoying the story means I have to engage with it and take it seriously. It's much harder to take the story seriously when the characters are, well, "fighting fuck dolls".

I also disagree that games cannot be a form of high art. They can certainly be simple diversions or amusement devices, but they can also be used to convey complex stories and engage the player on a deep and personal level.

Ultimately, that is all just my opinion. Not all games need to fit with my preference and things would probably be pretty boring if they did. However, as the person who is expected to drop $50 and a few dozen hours on these things, I feel that I should make it known that I tend to prefer that my characters be a bit more modest.