I liked Star Wars:TFA but....characterization

[CrazyCajun777]

(spoilers)

Ok so basically, I liked this movie. However, as Max Landis pointed out, there were no massively great moments in the movie, for me and a lot of people. There were no "remember that time" moments. Everything was just simple and straight forward. For that reason I, like some others, feel justified in being a jerk to it... and while you might consider these nit picks, criticism is not something one should dismiss out of hand. basically, I liked it blah blah blah but I'm going to spend most of my time criticizing it.

For me this movie had a lot of flaws that were very irksome: things just happened, the central plot was tossed aside for convenience, too much of the old guard, too much focus on the villain who stops being functional, Rey is a Mary Sue, and the force was way too strong of a plot contrivance. However, for me the most annoying thing about this movie was the lack of kinetic characterization. Do you know what kinetic characterization is? of course not, I just made it up, so i should probably explain.

In a good story be it book, comic, movie, video game, radio drama, or puppet show the rule is "show don't tell." This means that we like to learn things by what is happening and not by what we are told.

Example: Star Wars: A New Hope, how do we know the empire are bad guys? because they blow up a planet to prove a point. Nobody has to tell us they are bad guys, it is demonstrated to us by the way the characters act and by the events that unfold.

Anyway kinetic characterization is the character version of this rule.

Example: Han Solo is a thug. How do we know this? Because we see him murder a guy in a bar.

In kinetic characterization you, the story teller, are expressing who your characters are by every action they take. This is not a one time thing. This is something that works best when it is done over and over again to show us who these people are. Basically, their personalities should permeate to every aspect of who they are to tell us about them.

In my opinion this was not done well at all in Star Wars: TFA. Rey is the biggest victim of this, but Finn and Poe aren't a ton better. Basically, after watching the whole movie I could tell you more about Jar Jar Bink's personality than Rey's. She is very flat and dull with everything she does. She is capable, she is naive...ish... and she..... nope that's all I got. I can't tell you anything more about her character. While, I'm sure there is more to her than that it is not demonstrated enough to the audience for it to really be impactful.

Now, you may have noticed that I'm having a hard time describing the problem as I am pointing out an absence of something, so I'm going to put up an example for contrast: The trailer for the movie Zootopia. That's right, most of you who saw Star Wars likely saw this trailer so you can all be on board for what I'm about to talk about... so here we go:

But just encase her it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY73vFGhSVk

Ok, now you can pull up the video and follow along as I discuss the excellence of kinetic characterization in this trailer. Please note, these might be the besets parts of the movie but that doesn't discount their strength or the absence of these qualities in The Force Awakens.

Ok 0-9 seconds in we have some good stuff going on. There is a female bunny cop, she is enthusiastic and proactive. This unrelated but it is already grand because enthusiasm and proactivity are literally the two most important characteristics in making a likable character. However, we see her doing something that tells us about her. We see that she cares about her job, she sure seems to love her job, we see that she is a go getter/overachiever, and she might even have these qualities at the detriment of her social skills. Already I know more about this rabbit than our two leads in Star Wars:TFA

9-30 seconds: ok, this part is less colorful but still shows us who these characters are, and I mean their personalities not their jobs. It reemphasizes our bunny cop's taste for speed. notice how it is her and not the fox who seems most annoyed that they have to go through the sloth to get the info they need. Also note how it is the fox and not the bunny who knows the sloth, remember how our rabbit might suffer socially from her overachieving nature? We also learn about the the fox and the bunny by the contrast in their attire, again we see bunny as over achiever, she is in uniform and everything is just so. The fox who seems more socially skilled, he knows Flash the sloth, and is more laid back, his tight isn't all the way tightened, his top button isn't buttoned, and he's wearing a Hawaiian shirt.

30-42 seconds: Now we see great kinetic characterization by how they greet Flash. The fox is friendly and laid back, he greets Flash as "Flash Flash hundred yard dash" he also waves his arms about in a friendly manner and is generally posturing as warm and inviting. Then the bunny greets by standing straight up, chest out, eyes wide, she points to her badge and refers to herself as an officer of the law. Again we see her as very professional and job focused. Then we can loo at what the two do as they wait while the sloth speaks. Notice the laid back, fox leans against the counter while the bunny stands straight up. Notice how the bunny is comping at the bit to say something with her eyes wide open while the fixe patiently waits for the sloth to speak, even enjoying the bunny's discomfort.

I could go on for literally this entire trailer. There is almost nothing in it that isn't dripping with characterization. Everything the characters do from the way they talk to the way they stand reenforces who they are. We as the audience are constantly reminded about who they are through their actions and thus grow to really understand them and feel like we know them.

This is something that the new Star Wars movie sorely lacked. All too often it just felt like they were generically running or generically fighting with no personality to anything Finn or Rey said or did... Rey especially. However, that isn't to say that there wasn't any "kinetic characterization" at all, but that for my tastes, there wasn't nearly enough.

Well, that is my bit. I also have a strong problem with like-ability and a bunch of other stuff. If that sounds interesting let me know and i'll post more if not, tear me apart in the comment section


Have a nice day

 

[Mudman1234]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

 

[Zontar]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

It makes sense that after leaving the First Order he's do everything he could to assert and define his individuality and personality to those around him and to himself. When thinking about it in that line of reasoning, it makes his state understandable, and when compared to Rey, the only character with a comparable ammount of screen time, he comes off as the much more realistic character.

 

[lechat]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

fuck finally found someone who agrees.
I understand having a level of comic relief but that guy was so obviously "token goofy harmless black guy" that it made me feel ashamed for whoever wrote him.

 

[Mudman1234]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

fuck finally found someone who agrees.
I understand having a level of comic relief but that guy was so obviously "token goofy harmless black guy" that it made me feel ashamed for whoever wrote him.

That's my issue. Not that he's trying to make light of a situation with a little humor. It's that he feels like a token character who was written for a shitty skit in The Chapelle Show or something.

 

[Glongpre]

Wait are the complaints here that Finn was bad because he's funny and black? Or Finn was bad because he was funny?

Because when it comes to humour he was on-par with everyone else and even below some. I mean Poe probably had a 100% joke record, Han was high up there too, but both have gone unmentioned by these first few complaints.

No, Finn is bad because his character doesn't make sense. He goes from what we can assume is an indoctrination program to create perfect stormtroopers, to a comic relief character who has no problem killing people. Even though he wanted to get out because he doesn't like killing people. Although you could argue that it is just instinct for him to kill, but we are shown that he has no remorse for the killing he does. And you would think the program would take away personality.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

It makes sense that after leaving the First Order he's do everything he could to assert and define his individuality and personality to those around him and to himself. When thinking about it in that line of reasoning, it makes his state understandable, and when compared to Rey, the only character with a comparable ammount of screen time, he comes off as the much more realistic character.

Ok, he tries to create a personality for himself. It should feel really awkward and forced, because obviously this would be foreign to him.
Rey was much more realistic. She has been waiting on a shit planet for a long time it seems. She can take care of herself, and wants to know everyone that she can, that she is capable, that there is nothing wrong with her. And we learn why she pushes away golden opportunities to leave that shit planet. Anyway, she has a very strong will from living on Jakku, which is why her link to the force is strong, she can focus on it to get shit done when it is needed.

 

[wizzy555]

I don't think Finn is comic relief, I think he's the most interesting dramatic character on the "good" side in the movie (which granted is not saying that much). He's a traitor which breaks the good/bad binary and gives a face to stormtroopers (who have been faceless fodder for the majority of star wars stories).

 

[stormtrooper9091]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the people who not only think Finn wasn't a retardedly written character, but the best in the movie?

JJ gives us this Storm Trooper who was kidnapped as a child and brainwashed into being this merciless soldier and after his first taste at combat where a fellow Trooper died essentially in his arms and watched an innocent village getting mowed down and he turns into typical joke cracking black guy who's nothing but cringeworthy as fuck?

Jar Jar was more logical than this shit.

And I thought I was the only one who thought this. Finn was for me a typical neurotic comic relief sidekick

 

[Zontar]

Ok, he tries to create a personality for himself. It should feel really awkward and forced, because obviously this would be foreign to him.

Why would it be foreign to him? The idea that he and those in the First Order find is a foreign concept makes no sense given how real militaries and dictatorships work (including the one the Empire/First Order is explicitly based off). It may be my military experience talking, but soldiers are if anything the most likely to be sarcastic or make jokes. If anything it would be unrealistic to write him any other way, though admittedly what really would have really sold it as genuine would have been a bit of dark humour in the mix, but it's a (US) PG13 movie so can't have any of that.

Rey was much more realistic. She has been waiting on a shit planet for a long time it seems. She can take care of herself, and wants to know everyone that she can, that she is capable, that there is nothing wrong with her. And we learn why she pushes away golden opportunities to leave that shit planet. Anyway, she has a very strong will from living on Jakku, which is why her link to the force is strong, she can focus on it to get shit done when it is needed.

She had a fairly good attitude, but it's hard to take seriously when she's hyper-competent and has instant mastery at things she has never done, but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I was mostly put off by Rey being so impeccably better than everyone and awesome at everything.

 

[Glongpre]

Why would it be foreign to him? The idea that he and those in the First Order find is a foreign concept makes no sense given how real militaries and dictatorships work (including the one the Empire/First Order is explicitly based off). It may be my military experience talking, but soldiers are if anything the most likely to be sarcastic or make jokes. If anything it would be unrealistic to write him any other way, though admittedly what really would have really sold it as genuine would have been a bit of dark humour in the mix, but it's a (US) PG13 movie so can't have any of that.

She had a fairly good attitude, but it's hard to take seriously when she's hyper-competent and has instant mastery at things she has never done, but that's a discussion for another thread.

1- I am just assuming that under whatever kind of indoctrination program stormtroopers go through, that the First Order would dislike troopers with personality, because that implies that they will have emotion, which could get in the way of the mission. Although we do see emotion from other stromtroopers, like the tonfa guy.
It just seems like every other stormtrooper is of the monotone, do everything that is asked kind. If we saw some scenes of other stormtrooper camaraderie, then I could believe it. But stormtroopers have always been just suits, so maybe it is just me. Phasma doesn't even have a personality, but that could be because she is barely there.

2- She never really gets instant mastery. The mind trick was pretty silly though, I'll give you that. But really all of her scenes like the mind trick and beating Ren go back to her character of being strong willed, determined and focused. The writers certainly could have been more subtle with how she uses her traits but nonetheless, her character has plenty of....character.

Wait are the complaints here that Finn was bad because he's funny and black? Or Finn was bad because he was funny?

Because when it comes to humour he was on-par with everyone else and even below some. I mean Poe probably had a 100% joke record, Han was high up there too, but both have gone unmentioned by these first few complaints.

No, Finn is bad because his character doesn't make sense. He goes from what we can assume is an indoctrination program to create perfect stormtroopers, to a comic relief character who has no problem killing people. Even though he wanted to get out because he doesn't like killing people. Although you could argue that it is just instinct for him to kill, but we are shown that he has no remorse for the killing he does. And you would think the program would take away personality.

Killing in self-defense and killing innocent prisoners are two different things.

I also don't get where the comic relief thing is coming from, seeing as though he seems to have less funny scenes than other major characters.

The only part of your point that has merit is the "taking away personality" thing, which would mean we'd have to fall to the assumption that out of thousands (millions?) of Stormtroopers, not a single one has a personality. That's incredible unrealistic and even in the SW universe some of the Clone Troopers canonically had personality, and they were literally created.

Well, that is strange. It is ok for Finn to feel uncomfortable killing villagers, and to celebrate the death of his former comrades?
He felt like comic relief because the first half of the film he is just that. He had some good dramatic turns as well, but for a good stretch he was comic relief before Han and Chewie took over. Hmmm, maybe I am overexaggerating his comic reliefness?

And the personality thing is just, we never see any other stormtrooper with a real personality. It just feels strange is all. And I never felt the clones had much personality either. Commander Cody didn't really have one and he had the most screen time to see it. They were just mindless soldiers.

 

[Zontar]

It just seems like every other stormtrooper is of the monotone, do everything that is asked kind. If we saw some scenes of other stormtrooper camaraderie, then I could believe it. But stormtroopers have always been just suits, so maybe it is just me.

TR-8R begs to differ.

She never really gets instant mastery. The mind trick was pretty silly though, I'll give you that. But really all of her scenes like the mind trick and beating Ren go back to her character of being strong willed, determined and focused. The writers certainly could have been more subtle with how she uses her traits but nonetheless, her character has plenty of....character.

It wasn't only that or the fact a woman who could barely get enough food to eat could outrun a man who was a well fed soldier born and raised.

It was also the fact she could maintain the Falcon better then Han despite her background not logically giving her that experience, and the fact on her first time flying she was out-piloting trained pilots, and that the first time she held a blaster she missed once before getting perfect marksmanship skills. Honestly the only thing in the whole movie she doesn't execute perfectly was her fiddling with fuses on Han's cargo ship, and even that worked out for the better in the end.

 

[Casual Shinji]

And the personality thing is just, we never see any other stormtrooper with a real personality. It just feels strange is all. And I never felt the clones had much personality either. Commander Cody didn't really have one and he had the most screen time to see it. They were just mindless soldiers.

A big reason for that is because Finn is the only stormtrooper we see without his helmet. And the stormtroopers are obviously trained to follow orders and never question authority. Seeing as Finn goes against this and starts to think for himself, his personality becomes more apparent. Him being in fear of losing his life takes over from the indoctrination; his individuality takes over.

I don't know where everyone is getting the "token goofy black guy" from. He's no more responsible for the comedy in the movie than any of the other characters. I mean, was Chris Pratt the token funny white guy in Guardians of the Galaxy? Finn could've easily become a 'Jar Jar Binks' or 'Ruby Rod', but his actions have proper motivation. Those being that he's seen some shit, he's been raised in a dehumanized military environment for which he isn't cut out, and he just wants to get away from all that. He's a coward with a nobel heart who strives to being braver than he actually is.

 

[Glongpre]

It just seems like every other stormtrooper is of the monotone, do everything that is asked kind. If we saw some scenes of other stormtrooper camaraderie, then I could believe it. But stormtroopers have always been just suits, so maybe it is just me.

TR-8R begs to differ.

She never really gets instant mastery. The mind trick was pretty silly though, I'll give you that. But really all of her scenes like the mind trick and beating Ren go back to her character of being strong willed, determined and focused. The writers certainly could have been more subtle with how she uses her traits but nonetheless, her character has plenty of....character.

It wasn't only that or the fact a woman who could barely get enough food to eat could outrun a man who was a well fed soldier born and raised.

It was also the fact she could maintain the Falcon better then Han despite her background not logically giving her that experience, and the fact on her first time flying she was out-piloting trained pilots, and that the first time she held a blaster she missed once before getting perfect marksmanship skills. Honestly the only thing in the whole movie she doesn't execute perfectly was her fiddling with fuses on Han's cargo ship, and even that worked out for the better in the end.

The tonfa guy is the same as every other, he just carries a tonfa...

Maybe Finn was fatigued, because we don't know when the last time he ate, he was dehydrated, etc.

I think you are overexaggerating a little. I have been too, Finn isn't as comic relief as I once thought, he only had that one stint between meeting Rey to meeting Han.

I hope we will get some flashbacks for Finn where he remembers some nice memories with other stormtroopers, maybe some who were in the same boat as him. I think it would really help his character, and the world building.

I don't know where everyone is getting the "token goofy black guy" from.

What's a token goofy black guy? The only token black guy thing I am familiar with is that they always die first, or are the only black person in the movie.

I think it is because of the one part where Rey and him meet and are escaping and his dialogue is just joke after joke. After that he doesn't really have more jokes, now that I think about it. Maybe a few scenes involving him, where he is the joke, like where Han sarcastically refers to him as the big deal resistance soldier.

Boyega is a good actor though, I don't know why people were up in arms over his casting...

 

[Casual Shinji]

What's a token goofy black guy? The only token black guy thing I am familiar with is that they always die first, or are the only black person in the movie.

Someone typically portrayed by either Ving Rhames or Chris Tucker, who uses a lot of "street" lingo, like 'Yo', 'Wack', or 'Daaaaamn'. Also Will Smith tends to fit that role in most movies, though not as obnoxious. Finn doesn't pull any of that, thankfully.

I think it is because of the one part where Rey and him meet and are escaping and his dialogue is just joke after joke. After that he doesn't really have more jokes, now that I think about it. Maybe a few scenes involving him, where he is the joke, like where Han sarcastically refers to him as the big deal resistance soldier.

If you want to argue that there's a bit too much reliance on humor throughout the movie, then yes, I can see that. But this is not caused by Finn's character alone.

 

[Halla Burrica]

I expected TFA to get a lot of discussion and criticism, but I never expected the characterization to apparently be too subtle (of Rey at least). Lack of kinetic characterization? I don't want to be a condescending film snob like way too many people pride themselves on being, but Ihave wonder if you somehow missed the part where she saved the droid and then refused to sell it even though it would give her food for weeks, possibly even months. Or the time when she accidentally releases the monsters on Solos ship. Or the part where she finds out who Han and the others are. Or the part where she runs away from responsibility imposed on her by the Force. Or the times where she insists on getting back to her home planet to see her family, even though she hasn't actually seen them in years. And what about the part where she has her showdown with Reno? Heck, the very first time we see her is an example of kinetic characterisation, as we learn what kind of world she lives in, how it operates and in what way she is a part of that world.