I liked the ending to Mass Effect 3

[Joccaren]

This thread is not original or creative but I want people to know.

I liked the ending to Mass Effect 3.

Sure, the decisions in the 3 games meant more or less nothing where the ending is concerned but I liked the ending ITSELF. I chose the "paragon" ending and I think it really suited my Shepard well. It was a nice ending in my opinion.

Also, I think the hatred for Mass Effect 3 has gone too far, many are just jumping on the hatin' band wagon. When I was playing the last 20 minutes or so, I could see why some might be angry but not too the extent it has reached.

So, to add a bit of discussion value to this, who else liked the ending? All I've seen (on the Escapist anyway) is pure hatred but there must be someone else who liked it, right? RIGHT?

EDIT: Another thing, my brother got the perfect renegade ending and even though they are quite similar, I think that one is a good ending as well. If mass effect only had one ending I think the renegade one would do nicely, what with the hinting of Shepard still being alive at the end. I think there are slight continuity errors (why is my team on the Normandy?) but I think the perfect renegade ending where everyone including Shepard lives (except all synthetics of course) is a satisfying ending to the series. I would've, however, liked maybe a cut scene to explain the impact of my decisions and maybe individual cut scenes for crew members, but all in all I liked it.

First: I respect your decision, but I disagree
Second: A general trend I have noticed with those that support the ending, and those who don't, is that those who support the ending tend to like the broad idea of the ending, and feel like it fits their Shepard, whilst not caring so much about the details. Those who don't support the ending tend to look into the details, see that almost nothing fits, find that nothing suits their Shepard, and then go 'Well WTF am I meant to do?'.
Third: My experience with the endings.
I was pumped. I'd gathered every resource I could, I had every fleet in my hands. 7K+ EMS, and I was riding into battle to Save Anderson, Earth and stop the Reapers. The battle on Earth felt rushed, but the desperation of everything kinda fit in with that. I made it to the conduit, and it felt like a battle to get to TIM. I was liking it, not knowing what people's problems were. The boss fight with TIM was a let down. Nothing more than a 90% linear conversation, that the only way you could get that 10% non linearity was if you had completed previous objectives throughout the game (I.E: Used the Paragon/Renegade option every time you talked to him, not just in the final battle). I had my talk with Anderson, then I feinted as Hackett told me the Conduit was doing nothing. That was my climax. Everything went rapidly down hill from there. I was given three choices - not one of which suited my Shepard, reflected my actions and choices, or didn't involve space magic and destroying the relays and therefore galactic civilization too. Not one. I sat there for about 10 minutes thinking 'What do I do? Maybe there's an option to just wait and let the fleets fight the Reapers?'. No. Instead, I was shoehorned into the same endings as everyone else, that my Shepard had to just accept - no argument - and make a choice he really would never have made. Then I saw the endings on Youtube. Blatant copy paste if I had ever seen one. Literally 5 seconds of the whole ending sequence might have been different, excluding the different colours. Forgive me, but I'm used to Bioware at least making it look like my choices were important. Seeing the Council at the end of ME1, Seeing my upgraded Normandy kick Collector ass in ME2 - ME3 just fell flat on its face in this department. I can no longer play ME games. I played them as I felt like I was building towards something, fighting for something. I played as I thought my choices would make a difference. I went through the poor gameplay in 1 and 2 more times than I can count to get my choices ready, to do the best I could to save Earth. In the end, nothing mattered. That was crushing. Add to that plot holes, character inconsistencies, space magic, and numerous other grievances - its not hard to understand why many hate the endings.
Finally: I am happy for you if you liked the ending, but I have felt the full brunt of how bad they are for some people. I do not think Retake ME3, the FTC complaint, or anything is going to far. Retake ME3 was for a good cause, until that cause shut down the fundraiser as it didn't want to be associated with the movement. The FTC complaint is somewhat legitimate, and a serious issue. We were promised some specific things pre release - 1 example being no ending A, B or C - and they were not delivered. Should devs be allowed to so blatantly falsely advertise? Or is restricting them to 'We are planning on' statements too restricting on their freedom?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

So you didn't mind that there was very little closure and that the entire reason for the Reaper's existence didn't make sense?

I had no problem with that part. The Reapers ARE the civilizations - they are Borg-like collectives controlled by the Catalyst. That was the AI-Logic solution - make all organics into synthetics when they get advanced enough.

Basically, all those colonists in ME2 weren't being killed - they were being "downloaded" into the Human Reaper. Somewhere out there was a Prothean Reaper and a Capital-size reaper for each Cycle (with the Destroyer class reapers being the other races). They were preserving the DNA of each race - as if the DNA was the most important part.

It was Machine Logic. Technically they were "saving" each race. But not in any way that the race would want to be saved.

Anyway, this was all previously implied. Harbinger said it all through ME2: "We are your salvation." "You are only hurting yourself." "You will become as We are."

THAT part was well foreshadowed and I thought paid off very well.

However...

Or how about how Joker just randomly decides to flee the battle. Very uncharacteristic of him especially after what he did in the second game.

Also, how is it possible that Garrus, who I took with me on the final mission, somehow managed to come out of the crash landed Normandy?

For me, it was Liara. Yeah. Particularly since the guy on the radio said that everyone in that charge (apart from Shepard and Anderson, I guess) died. So I was like "oh fuck, I just got Liara killed" - and then there she was, on the ship.

I think that was just bad programming. I think they assumed that you wouldn't bring your beloved into a war-zone... which was stupid, considering that Liara is one of the best anti-husk characters available (Stasis Bubble FTW).

The only thing I could think of was that, after the push failed Liara et al retreated, got picked up by the Normandy, and that they were attempting to board the Citadel from the Normandy when things went crazy. That MIGHT have just been FLT drive, not a Mass Effect jump. Maybe.

That's all I've got on that one. Sorry - that was the only part that really bothered me. It still didn't make me angry - just confused.

It's not that it doesn't provide closure, is sad, or that your choices form the other games have little affect on it (I was perfectly fine with all that). It's that the ending actually doesn't make any logical sense.

The squadmember teleportaion Joker joyriding bit, yeah. The Reaper plan makes perfect sense in screwed-up AI logic. The Lord Reaper obviously doesn't understand what being a "person" means - unlike EDI. It thinks that preserving the DNA is the same as preserving a civilization - which is why it's the bad guy.

 

[Savagezion]

Let's see. I am actually paid to analyze things...so, analytical skills? Yep I have them.

But since you are vague, why don't you list these 10 major plot holes that happen in the last 10 minutes. Specificity is a great thing!

What about the one where the child says "Humans and synthetics" can't co-exist?

Spoiler

Completely bi-passing the entire sequence in the story where Shepard resolves the conflict between the Quanari and the Geth and it turns out that the Quanari can easily be viewed as the aggressors. It could be resolved peacefully with the Geth actually joining into peaceful co-existance with not only the Quanari but galactic civilization.

So because they "can't co-exist", they made a bunch of synthetics that were programmed not to kill all synthetics to protect organics, but instead to wipe out organic lifeforms to protect organics from being destroyed by synthetics. The video above posted by Caramel Frappe also points out the reaper code that could have been used to shut them down.

That was a big fat 'cop out' bullshit dose of hack writing that is all in your face. How do you miss something like that?

 

[Joccaren]

1&2 are basically the same one?with added kinds of hyperbole. The Normandy escape, which I already said didn't bother me. He also makes assumptions about seeing Joker flying away from an explosion means he is taking the cowards way out and they wouldn't leave Shepard. I disagree. If the Citadel explodes in a big explosion, you are going to fly away from the explosion. You'd plan on coming back...but you'd fly away.

Only doing a brief skim of the other points, I'm seeing a few 'It worked for my Shepard' or 'but I didn't mind that'. Good for you. It didn't work for 91% of people on BSN, and almost everyone those 91% know IRL and on other Forums. Good to know that worked for you, but its no argument at all.

This point, however, gets me. Using in game lore there is no way Joker could have seen the Citadel exploding and made it to the Mass Relay in time without killing everyone on board due to excessive amounts of Chekhov Radiation. Not to mention the 'explosion' moves faster than his ship. Assuming he did all this after seeing the Citadel start its blowy uppy process, he would have had to get to Earth, pick up the squad, FTL to the Mass Relay, perform a slow drop out of FTL to stop the Chekhov Radiation from killing the crew, performed his approach to the Mass Relay and launched himself through it - all in the space of about 10 seconds. His trip to the relay would take 2. Him decelerating would take likely another 1 or 2, him approaching the relay and performing the jump we have seen takes about 3 - that gives him 3 seconds to get to Earth, get the crew onto the Normandy and leave Earth - all whilst outrunning a beam of energy faster than him. It doesn't add up. Space Magic.
A plot hole that, from reading your post, Angry Joe didn't mention (Which, BTW, I haven't watched his video):
The entire events of ME1 are made pointless by this. Remind me, why did Sovereign need to dock with the Citadel - or even send a signal to the Keepers - if the Catalyst controls the Citadel. A few things to note:
1. The Prothean Virus was never removed. If it had of been, the Reapers would have invaded at the end of ME1 through the relay. The patience of the Reapers also rules out the Catalyst slowly overriding it. It is established the Reapers prefer to go unnoticed, and take the slow, low risk route when setting their plans in motion. Attacking the Citadel is anything BUT a slow, low risk option.
2. The Catalyst does control the station. Without any input, as Shepard feints, the Citadels arms open wide. In addition, in the Control ending, the Citadel's arms are closed after Shepard becomes the new Catalyst - with no-one around to close them. These examples support the notion that the Catalyst does indeed control the Citadel.

 

[The_Waspman]

I've mentioned it on a few other threads and I'll say it again here. I liked the ending too. I found it very troubling, and I have been thinking about it a lot since I completed it.

Spoiler: As if no-one knows how this game ends already...

I know it esentially boils down to the endomatic 3000 with its choices, but everything I'd done in Mass Effect 2 and 3 (PS3 owner, don't hate me) caused me to seriously think about what choice to actually make.

And I don't buy this whole indoctrination theory. Yes, it brings up some good points that tie together and explain a lot of the (in my opinion, deliberately) abstract elements of the final ten minutes, however...

Spoiler: Some indoctrination stuff

I just don't buy the kid being nothing more than a hallucination created by Harbinger. Sure, Anderson doesn't see the kid in the vent, but its a *vent*, the kid could have crawled off. And no-one helped him onto the shuttle because, well, they were busy fighting off the Reaper army, y'know?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

What about the one where the child says "Humans and synthetics" can't co-exist?"

Well, that's sort of the point - you've just proven that they can. Child AI is obviously stupid - in the way that computer programs are. Very fast idiots and all that.

It would have been nice if you could say: "Um, look outside - Quarian and Geth forces, fighting side by side."

Of course, the Starchild would probably have said "Beep, boop, does not compute. Organics and synthetics cannot coexist."

Although... I suppose it is fair to say that it is actually kind of hard to get the peace between Geth and Quarians. That issue rings a little more true if the Geth and Quarians just murdered one another until one was wiped out.

This point, however, gets me. Using in game lore there is no way Joker could have seen the Citadel exploding and made it to the Mass Relay in time without killing everyone on board due to excessive amounts of Chekhov Radiation. Not to mention the 'explosion' moves faster than his ship.

While I'm not very happy with the whole Joker bit either, I would like to point something out. Relay travel is nearly instantaneous. Joker was in normal FTL flight - like what you do around a star system. Whenever the ship is in flight around a solar system (or between solar systems using fuel) is glows blue like that. It DOESN'T during Relay jumps.

So the Normandy wasn't using the Relay in that scene.

Now... what exactly it WAS doing is very unclear. How Joker got your squad onboard when random soldier said they (and Shep) were killed is also unclear and makes little sense.

It also means one other thing - the Normandy crashes within FTL distance of Earth. If any of the rest of the fleet survive with intact ships, they can pick up the Normandy crew.

 

[Joccaren]

While I'm not very happy with the whole Joker bit either, I would like to point something out. Relay travel is nearly instantaneous. Joker was in normal FTL flight - like what you do around a star system. Whenever the ship is in flight around a solar system (or between solar systems using fuel) is glows blue like that. It DOESN'T during Relay jumps.

So the Normandy wasn't using the Relay in that scene.

Now... what exactly it WAS doing is very unclear. How Joker got your squad onboard when random soldier said they (and Shep) were killed is also unclear and makes little sense.

It also means one other thing - the Normandy crashes within FTL distance of Earth. If any of the rest of the fleet survive with intact ships, they can pick up the Normandy crew.

That is actually pretty much my Theory too. He is not in Relay Transit, but trying maybe to outrun that specific beam of energy that the Crucible fires (Which makes no sense in control as it was a wave of energy rather than a specific beam, if you'll watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA&feature=youtu.be
Which is probably why most think he is in relay transit - its the only time all three energy types are in a beam form.
Then, instead of dropping out of Relay transit or W/E, he is pulled back through the energy Beam to its Origin - in Orbit of Earth. They crashland somewhere along the Pacific Equatorial Region, or some place like that. Of course, the second planet in the sky needs some explaining, but I'll get to that eventually.

 

[Sentox6]

It's over now, you can just walk away. All the bad ending means is the difference between remembering and forgetting your time with the game. But the idea that you cannot move on until they've fixed their doodey? Come on people.

Of course I can "move on". It's a game, after all. But as a consumer, I was promised A, and I got B, so of course I'm going to make noise about that. I've been disappointed in plenty of games, but never one where so many direct statements have been made about its content prior to release that turned out to be blatant falsehoods. That's why I'm not "moving on".

 

[Syzygy23]

You liked the ending?

So... if someone promised to make you any sort of sandwich you wanted from a list of ingredients, let you assemble it yourself, and then just as you took the last bite they yanked it out of your hands and shit in your mouth, you'd think that would taste delicious?

Well, to each his own... Just don't ever recommend that I try a sandwich, I can't trust your taste.

It's over now, you can just walk away. All the bad ending means is the difference between remembering and forgetting your time with the game. But the idea that you cannot move on until they've fixed their doodey? Come on people.

Of course I can "move on". It's a game, after all. But as a consumer, I was promised A, and I got B, so of course I'm going to make noise about that. I've been disappointed in plenty of games, but never one where so many direct statements have been made about its content prior to release that turned out to be blatant falsehoods. That's why I'm not "moving on".

You've got me there. Seems there is a gap between the actual bad writing of the end and the execution from a design angle. You're right, we were promised that it would be you typical "A,B or C" ending, when actually that's exactly what it fucking was.
I'm reminded of the way there's no actual law that says politicians have to keep ANY of the promises they make during election campaigns.

Uh, no... The Lead Designer specifically stated in an interview that Mass Effect 3 was supposed to end in a way that cobbled all your past decisions together and made a custom one built upon those past choices and their consequences.

 

[psicat]

I loved the endings. For me the whole game was a beautiful ending to the series. Though so far in my two play throughs I've only picked Destroy or Synthesis, I can't see any of my Shepards picking Control no matter how Paragon it's painted to be.

Control seems like a naive choice since you're taking it on the catalyst child's word alone that you can control, and keep control of the Reapers. It seems more like it's and the Reapers way of trying to protect themselves and keep the cycle going. It is probably a trick, and the self-preservation choice for the enemy, and what they tried to push on the Protheans through their indoctrinated agents in the past.

Destroy is what Shepard has been working towards from the beginning. The destruction of the Reapers to preserve life. And, once again you only have the catalysts word that it would cause the destruction of all synthetic life. So how Renegade it seems depends more on the players instincts and how much they choose to believe the information they are being given and it's source.

Synthesis seems like a new idea, perhaps even to the catalyst itself. Something only possible because of Shepard and what they are at this point. And, offers some interesting possibilities to the future of that galaxy and a greater chance of survival perhaps.

 

[Savagezion]

What about the one where the child says "Humans and synthetics" can't co-exist?"

Well, that's sort of the point - you've just proven that they can. Child AI is obviously stupid - in the way that computer programs are. Very fast idiots and all that.

It would have been nice if you could say: "Um, look outside - Quarian and Geth forces, fighting side by side."

Of course, the Starchild would probably have said "Beep, boop, does not compute. Organics and synthetics cannot coexist."

And then I would decommission his worthless robot ass. My paragon would, my renegade would have long before that, and my in between infiltrator would too probably. At best, my infiltrator would say he isn't gonna pick between the options and watch the battle instead. If it ever became inevitable we would lose, he would pick the destroy option. But the kid would probably keep bugging him to pick and not watch the battle so the kid would probably still end up getting his head blown off.

Although... I suppose it is fair to say that it is actually kind of hard to get the peace between Geth and Quarians. That issue rings a little more true if the Geth and Quarians just murdered one another until one was wiped out.

Yeah, in some playthroughs I could see people not spotting this.

Although, that is why I added in the pants-on-head-retarded bit about having "synthetics kill organics so that synthetics wont kill organics." That is a scene where I was pretty sure everyone would stop and think, "Did he just say what I think he did?" And at that moment, you know this kid is no longer worth talking to, if you don't automatically think he is trying to deceive you and need to die. I would think most people would want to kill him after saying something so stupid, not out of rage but suspicion. Even if you really think about the possibility that he is innocent after saying something so stupid, all you did was kill some retarded ass bot. No harm done.

 

[Ickorus]

The ending isn't bad (If we ignore all the massive plot-holes and of course the god child ass-pull), it's just that there is very little difference no matter what you choose that people are so angry about.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Although, that is why I added in the pants-on-head-retarded bit about having "synthetics kill organics so that synthetics wont kill organics." That is a scene where I was pretty sure everyone would stop and think, "Did he just say what I think he did?" And at that moment, you know this kid is no longer worth talking to, if you don't automatically think he is trying to deceive you and need to die. I would think most people would want to kill him after saying something so stupid, not out of rage but suspicion. Even if you really think about the possibility that he is innocent after saying something so stupid, all you did was kill some retarded ass bot. No harm done.

Yeah, but as I said farther down in the post of mine you just quoted (or the one before, I can't remember anymore) the Reapers don't technically kill people. They transform them into Reapers.

Well, they kill the ones they turn into husks, but the ones they melt in factories get "transformed" into Reapers. As far as Starkid is concerned, they didn't die - therefore they are saved.

And that has been foreshadowed since ME2. Harbinger spent the whole game telling us that was what he was doing (and it was confirmed as literal in the final boss fight with the Human Reaper).

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Then, instead of dropping out of Relay transit or W/E, he is pulled back through the energy Beam to its Origin - in Orbit of Earth. They crashland somewhere along the Pacific Equatorial Region, or some place like that. Of course, the second planet in the sky needs some explaining, but I'll get to that eventually.

Wait, is that what happened?!

I didn't think it was Earth because it looked too... nice. I got the impression that there was very little "open natural locations" left on Earth.

However, if that IS Earth, then... actually, that's a lot better than most people have...

...

Wait, it can't be Earth. Cause doesn't the Normandy still crash on the same planet even if Earth burns/blows up?

 

[Savagezion]

Although, that is why I added in the pants-on-head-retarded bit about having "synthetics kill organics so that synthetics wont kill organics." That is a scene where I was pretty sure everyone would stop and think, "Did he just say what I think he did?" And at that moment, you know this kid is no longer worth talking to, if you don't automatically think he is trying to deceive you and need to die. I would think most people would want to kill him after saying something so stupid, not out of rage but suspicion. Even if you really think about the possibility that he is innocent after saying something so stupid, all you did was kill some retarded ass bot. No harm done.

Yeah, but as I said farther down in the post of mine you just quoted (or the one before, I can't remember anymore) the Reapers don't technically kill people. They transform them into Reapers.

Well, they kill the ones they turn into husks, but the ones they melt in factories get "transformed" into Reapers. As far as Starkid is concerned, they didn't die - therefore they are saved.

And that has been foreshadowed since ME2. Harbinger spent the whole game telling us that was what he was doing (and it was confirmed as literal in the final boss fight with the Human Reaper).

Right, but this is a part I have a hard time buying anyone out there would be like "Oh, ok that doesn't count as killing then". Same reason you bolded the word technically in the first paragraph. The robot is still retarded in the same way, only you could see why he is retarded. I think it still apparent he is trying to pull a fast one on you. The fact that you can't buck up against it even further cements that suspicion for me. My Shepard's would have blown the kids brains out unless I could tell the kid he was wrong. If he "Did not compute" then he would have been destroyed. It comes off as a robot with its own agenda trying to put a spin on it but is bad at it. So amazingly bad at it. He clearly hasn't been working on a plan in the past 50,000 years.

 

[Erttheking]

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

 

[Storm Dragon]

I really only had two problems:
1) Where is the Normandy going, why is it going there, and how are Liara and Garrus on it when they were down on Earth with me?
2) Was the destruction of the relay network necessary, BioWare?

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Right, but this is a part I have a hard time buying anyone out there would be like "Oh, ok that doesn't count as killing then". Same reason you bolded the word technically in the first paragraph. The robot is still retarded in the same way, only you could see why he is retarded. I think it still apparent he is trying to pull a fast one on you. The fact that you can't buck up against it even further cements that suspicion for me. My Shepard's would have blown the kids brains out unless I could tell the kid he was wrong. If he "Did not compute" then he would have been destroyed. It comes off as a robot with its own agenda trying to put a spin on it but is bad at it. So amazingly bad at it. He clearly hasn't been working on a plan in the past 50,000 years.

Well, your Shepard (and mine, and everyones) is a barely functional burn victim by that point. I mean, you can barely shoot the Illusive Man - and I've wanted to do that for two full games now.

At that point, faced with letting people die every second, I think the assumption is that Shep is just too tired to argue anymore.

Plus... again, I liked the Control option, cause Reapers make great Relay Repair Robots.

And for railroading... what about ME2? I felt WAY better about going along with Starkid than I did about signing on with the Illusive Man. Where was my option to get on the SR2 and fly to the Local Cluster, Scan Uranus for LOLs, and then turn the Normandy over to the Alliance (and ask for a new ship to go investigate the Collectors in, on Specter Authority please).

At least Starkid was trustworthy in that "I am too literal to lie properly, beep boop" kind of way. The Illusive Man was so slimy... and yet, Paragon or Renegade, you HAVE to go along with his wacky plan to join a terrorist organization for no good reason in ME2.

As far as the logic being awful - well, it's machine logic. Like the Borg in Star Trek always think they're doing you a favor by taking away your free will. Or the Cybermen in Doctor Who. Or, hell, the GETH. The Geth don't understand that whole "killing is bad" thing until you hang out with Legion for a while. In his loyalty mission, Shep is concerned about murdering the Heretics (or can be, depending on dialogue options) and Legion is like "meh, who cares - brainwash them or blow them up, it's all good." Legion (and the Geth) don't get why organics care so much until that last moment when Legion starts referring to himself as "I" instead of "we". And the Geth are the friendly, peace-loving AIs.

Like I said, the reason why the Reapers did what they did (and the fact that they were absolutely convinced that they were doing you the biggest favor imaginable) was foreshadowed in ME2. Playing ME2, I understood that the Reapers weren't killing everyone - they were "harvesting" them. To the Reapers, "harvesting" a civilization was the greatest gift they could give - immortality. The Reapers were making everyone "immortal" by turning them into more Reapers.

From our point of view as individuals, it sounds insane. But from an intelligent, networked AI (like the Geth or Reapers) it probably sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

Hell, combining all humans into a single organism is actually the goal of some world religions (Nirvana is basically a network of souls in constant, Geth-like communication). Gnosticism has similar views. The idea that the greatest thing that could happen to humans is for us all to die and become one giant mind - to become god - is ancient.

So yeah, I thought that part of the ending was awesome and made perfect sense.