I need a new RTS

[The Amazing Tea Alligator]

Why is this even a discussion? There's no great debate over what 1 + 1 equals, and that is a far more complicated and difficult question than this.

http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=110000101

No. Stagnation should not be rewarded. That kind of gameplay was acceptable back in the 2000's, when the world was backward and primitive. This is a new decade, and I won't stand for people re-releasing the same stuff.

It's not my fault that in 12 years nobody has come up with anything better.

Get Men of War. It is one the VERY few unique RTS games out there. It is absolutely brilliant, game-changing, and you are not a responsible RTS gamer if you have not at least TRIED IT. There is a demo on steam. Try it. You won't regret it. Chances are, all other games mention (Age of Empires, Starcraft, DOW 1, Starcraft II, Starcraft II, MY GOT WHY WON'T BLIZZARD INNOVATE, Starcraft II) Will all be the same basic gameplay. Men of War doesn't follow that shit. It is unique and brilliant.

It is incredibly realistic in terms of health and all that, and has very challenging and fun missions. The voice acting is hilariously bad. The level of detail in this game is absurd:
- Every unit has an inventory
- You can Isometrically control each and every unit (Diablo style)
- Every unit needs to reload
- You can take an empty flamethrower pack, walk up to a tiger tank, and if you're quiet enough, EMPTY THE TANK"S FUEL INTO THE FLAMETHROWER

That should sound awesome. If it doesn't contact your doctor. If you liked Company of Heroes, you will LOVE this game.

Sorry about the double post.

OP: $300? Where do you live? It's like $30 in the frozen wastes of Canadia...

That's nice. Is it balanced? Is it competitive? Is it FUN?

I'll try it, but seriously, newer does not mean better. Innovation means NOTHING if you do not IMPROVE on what you're innovating from. Appealing to novelty is a fallacy for a reason.

You used the phrase "it's like playing Oblivion after playing Morrowind." The context makes it seem like you think Morrowind is better. So in that case, you claim the old game is better, yet Starcraft can't be because it's lacking all the new features? Nintendo is often blamed for innovating little but they regularly produce instant classics. Heard of Stormrise? That was an RTS with a very "innovative" new control scheme. Guess what, IT SUCKED. The Virtual Boy was innovative, have you tried it? Innovation is a buzzword and little else. Quality something entirely different.

Men of War certainly is not as polished as Starcraft II. That's because, however, Blizzard is friggin blizzard, whereas Men of War was made in the Ukraine or some shit (not to insult people from around there, I love you guys, seriously). Blizzard has the money to polish the shit out of Starcraft 2, and therefore does.

You seeem to be a victim of paradolia, there is no pattern that 'older games are better'. This is hardly the case. However, Morrowind was better than Oblivion, because Morrowind was far supirior in every way except for graphics and combat. Graphics was expected, and Oblivion's combat upgrade was hardly revolutionary amongst the genre. Oblivion in turn absolutely butchered all greatness that Morrowind had in the atmosphere departement and RPG elements, which, if you're playing an RPG, is kind of a big deal.

Innovation is not a buzzword, though it is improperly used as one. True innovation is when a game does something no other game has done before, or pulled many elements from other games into a configuration no other game has ever done before. Innovation for the sake of sales, as in the case of Stormrise, is NEVER innovation. i'm a fairly young whippersnapper, and therfore have never tried the virtual boy. However, it was not innovating. it was not 'changing the game'. All it did was put it into a different context.

Men of War is somewhat competitive, and the new expansion pack Assault Squad is purely focused on improving the competitive aspect (this is made by Digital Mind Soft, and from what I've read, they have different opinions than 1C and Best Way, who seem to care more about single player. This is all just speculation).

Abovce all Men of War is FUN. Abosolutely. It does something unique and incredible, with a level of polish not comparible to Blizzard's corperate standards, but still impressive none the same.

As to why no large companies innovate, or change their formulas? My guess is because they assume that the public wouldn't buy it. So I blame YOU. All of you. Well, most of you. Nah, just Jerry, over there.

Notice: Sorry if I missed anything. I tried to cover it all. In all likelyhood everything's misspelled. I'll check it over...

EDIT: Looking over your post again, I just want to reiterate my last paragraph. I described Men of War, and you were suspicious and skeptical. This is by no means a bad thing, but it is if you don't try it (provided there's a free trial or something, don't waste your money or anything). This must be why Blizzard doesn't innovate. We must saaaaave the profit margins!

 

[InnerRebellion]

After finally getting bored of Age of Empires 3, I decided it's time to look for other RTS games.

I don't have any money to buy any games yet, so does anyone care to recommend me some good RTS demos?

I've owned Age of Empires 3 and Company of Heroes, so those two are out.

Edit: M birthday is coming up soon, so recommend me some titles to beg/command ask my friends to get me.

get RUSE. its a strategy game but its doesn't focus on numbers and spamming but intel and ruses. you have to trick the enemy into losing, and if you don't YOU will be tricked.

example: i had a squad of german paratroopers hide in a city on a known tank route. when the tanks drove through the town the entire armada of 30 tanks was destroyed by a squad they didn't KNOW that was there. its free on steam right now if you wanna try it.

I tried it during the first beta and I couldn't get the hang of it. Could you possibly explain it to me?

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

Starcraft 2 on the 27th.

 

[Infinatex]

Starcraft II, less the 8 days and counting...!

This.
Sadly, I just got in the beta with only 8 days left...
Hollow victory, but at least I got a cool email from blizzard...

You best be playing the hell out of it for us regular people who missed out!! 8 days is better then nothing!

 

[The Amazing Tea Alligator]

Just to chime in for a request - any similar RTSs to C&C Generals Zero Hour? Nice bit of choice of "class", relatively (not overly) simple gameplay? RTSs are a bit of an Achilles foot for me, would like to mend that fact slowly with some good ones without throwing myself to a pack of wolves right away

And just don't say Starcraft/Warcraft (not sure how simple you'd consider them, but an exclusion criteria nonetheless ), played those, would like something new and different.

OP: ahhhhh, I see. I'd reccomend Men of War, TF2(though you're a PC gamer so I assume you already have it, if not SHAAAAME), Mount and Blade Warband, Brink (I think, looks promising but I haven't played it), Threadspace Hyperbol (on steam, there's a demo, play the tutorial), and Morrowind. You may have some of those, in which case bravo.

What is so great about TF2? My cousin and his room mates are dedicated to it, and I don't even know what it is.

TF2 is great for the same reason Men of War is great. It's FUN. It's not gritty, it's not absurdly masculine, but it is GREAT FUN. Unlike Men of War, I certainly wouldn't want every other shooter to be like TF2, as the shooter genre has at least taken baby steps to improve and change itself, but TF2 is a much lighter take on things. The advantage TF2 has over Men of War, is that it's made by VALVe, and is therefore polished into oblivion.

Another beautiful thing that TF2 does is it does free updates. These free updates add maps, weapons (which is a big deal, as most of these fundamentaly change a class), and gametypes that have kept and improved TF2 since it's release.

Ask one of your friends to show you the ropes. Don't be discouraged if you don't like it at first. I didn't either for a bit, and stopped playing. A while laer, I decided to give it another go. Nowadays I am seriously worried if I'll have to buy a new account when I reach 666 gameplay hours (that's the kind of thing I'd want to keep on my account).

 

[The Amazing Tea Alligator]

If you ask me and if money is no issue? I'd take this learning curve:
Supreme Commander 2 (baby's first RTS - Halo Wars which is just insulting) -> Company of Heroes -> MEN OF WAR!!!

Unless you prefer the civilization monocle wearing tea drinking sort of RTS (I personally am down with that as well as you might guess by my avatar + username) in which case I'd go for:
Supreme Commander 2 (see above) -> Supreme Commander 1 -> Sins of a Solar Empire (reeeeally slow paced but great fun for diplomatic oriented LANning)

Mmmm, kinda seen Supreme Commander 2 gameplay on YouTube and wasn't impressed. Like the good old games that go - build base > build units > transport units > attack. Might be wrong but Supreme Commander 2 kinda sidestepped that somehow with "guns that shoot units over chasms into enemy bases". I kinda blinked a few times and lost all interest in the game :|

Will look into Men of War though tomorrow (tired as hell atm), kinda like the concept (just afraid I might be a little overwhelmed, but hey, I guess having sharks in the pool helps you learn to swim faster). More suggestions would still be welcome though, especially if there's something in the generals line, kinda thinking of looking into C&C's other games but word of mouth is that the latest Tiberian Sun sucks. Oh and not morally opposed to turn based combat either if anyone's got ideas lying around ^^ (played Civ III and Rome: Total War, enjoyed the concept of both, I know there's been a new TW game out since, will look into it, but again, more suggestions would always rock, strategies aren't my strong point)

quick edit: just looked into Total War and realised why I dropped out on the series, the ages they went for since really haven't appealed to me... fingers crossed for next year's TW: Shogun 2 though, like the small amount of info I found on it

As for SupCom 2, I like it for it's very simplistic gameplay. It is like build base -> build units -> yaddayaddayadaa. There are guns that shoot over caverns, but if they don't have these, yet you don't have dinosaur robots (seriously) then you aren't evenly matched with your oponent. I find it fun and simple with some very cool and interesting units (artillery gun that shoots tanks anyone?), though I wouldn't reccomend it if you:
- aren't King Midas
- already know how to play RTS's and don't want a nice little simple game to play with those who don't know RTS's
- don't already have Men of War

And sorry for the two posts in a row thing.

 

[TheBaron87]

snip

That's nice. Is it balanced? Is it competitive? Is it FUN?

I'll try it, but seriously, newer does not mean better. Innovation means NOTHING if you do not IMPROVE on what you're innovating from. Appealing to novelty is a fallacy for a reason.

You used the phrase "it's like playing Oblivion after playing Morrowind." The context makes it seem like you think Morrowind is better. So in that case, you claim the old game is better, yet Starcraft can't be because it's lacking all the new features? Nintendo is often blamed for innovating little but they regularly produce instant classics. Heard of Stormrise? That was an RTS with a very "innovative" new control scheme. Guess what, IT SUCKED. The Virtual Boy was innovative, have you tried it? Innovation is a buzzword and little else. Quality something entirely different.

Men of War certainly is not as polished as Starcraft II. That's because, however, Blizzard is friggin blizzard, whereas Men of War was made in the Ukraine or some shit (not to insult people from around there, I love you guys, seriously). Blizzard has the money to polish the shit out of Starcraft 2, and therefore does.

You seeem to be a victim of paradolia, there is no pattern that 'older games are better'. This is hardly the case. However, Morrowind was better than Oblivion, because Morrowind was far supirior in every way except for graphics and combat. Graphics was expected, and Oblivion's combat upgrade was hardly revolutionary amongst the genre. Oblivion in turn absolutely butchered all greatness that Morrowind had in the atmosphere departement.

Innovation is not a buzzword, though it is improperly used as one. True innovation is when a game does something no other game has done before, or pulled many elements from other games into a configuration no other game has ever done before. Innovation for the sake of sales, as in the case of Stormrise, is NEVER innovation. i'm a fairly young whippersnapper, and therfore have never tried the virtual boy. However, it was not innovating. it was not 'changing the game'. All it did was put it into a different context.

Men of War is somewhat competitive, and the new expansion pack Assault Squad is purely focused on improving the competitive aspect (this is made by Digital Mind Soft, and from what I've read, they have different opinions than 1C and Best Way, who seem to care more about single player. This is all just speculation).

Abovce all Men of War is FUN. Abosolutely. It does something unique and incredible, with a level of polish not comparible to Blizzard's corperate standards, but still impressive none the same.

As to why no large companies innovate, or change their formulas? My guess is because they assume that the public wouldn't buy it. So I blame YOU. All of you. Well, most of you. Nah, just Jerry, over there.

I was talking about Starcraft 1, not 2. And no, I don't think older games are better either. Better games are better, regardless of age. I think CoD6 is much better than Goldeneye 007. Portal is one of the best games ever made, even though I'm of the NES generation. I enjoy games like Dirt 2 and Grid much better than Pole Position or Top Gear. Street Fighter 4 is better than Street Fighter 2. Older isn't better either. Better is better.

Innovation, however you want to define it, doesn't guarantee quality. Games that legitimately innovate usually DON'T succeed. Most innovative games you can think of are really just more polished versions of ideas that were first tried years before. Ever heard of Winback? That was the original Third Person Shooter with a cover system, waaaaay back before Gears of War.

Anyway, I can't judge Men of War and I never attacked it, I'm just defending the fact that Starcraft is still an amazing game, in my experience better than any other RTS I've played, including:

- Total Annihilation
- Homeworld 1+2+Cataclysm
- Populous:TB, Earth 2150
- Dawn of War 1+2
- Company of Heroes
- Sins of a Solar Empire
- Age of Empires 1-3
- C&C 1+2, RA 1+3, Generals
- Supreme Commander 1+2
- Battle for Middle Earth 2
- etc. etc. etc.

Since you like to attack it for not having all the new features of modern RTS.

Anyway, I'm not going to buy a game I'm iffy about. If I enjoyed Game A, and I'm told Game A2 is more of the same, then of COURSE I'm going to buy Game A2, since I already know it has what I like. I don't understand what's with people who always need something different to the point they'll buy a game just because it's hat everyone else is playing or it has an interesting commercial, then bash sequels as "rehashes" even if they admit to enjoying the game before it. I wish more sequels WOULD be the same so I could finally have another decent Starfox or Final Fantasy game. I've been waiting since 64 and 6, respectively. At least Dragon Quest will never change too radically.

Just to chime in for a request - any similar RTSs to C&C Generals Zero Hour? Nice bit of choice of "class", relatively (not overly) simple gameplay? RTSs are a bit of an Achilles foot for me, would like to mend that fact slowly with some good ones without throwing myself to a pack of wolves right away

And just don't say Starcraft/Warcraft (not sure how simple you'd consider them, but an exclusion criteria nonetheless ), played those, would like something new and different.

OP: ahhhhh, I see. I'd reccomend Men of War, TF2(though you're a PC gamer so I assume you already have it, if not SHAAAAME), Mount and Blade Warband, Brink (I think, looks promising but I haven't played it), Threadspace Hyperbol (on steam, there's a demo, play the tutorial), and Morrowind. You may have some of those, in which case bravo.

What is so great about TF2? My cousin and his room mates are dedicated to it, and I don't even know what it is.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait WHAT?

Wow man... how often do you even play games? You have over 200 posts here and don't know TF2? What exactly have you been doing all this time?

http://www.teamfortress.com/movies.htm (WATCH THESE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRSW0Y1SgoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-qD30EOO-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIISxhYRYE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxodkFM8N1U

The Youtube stuff is very old and only covers 4 of the 9 classes, and no unlockables, but will give you a good idea about the game in general.

 

[TheSkaAssassin]

Command & Conquer. End of discussion.

 

[Warforger]

After finally getting bored of Age of Empires 3, I decided it's time to look for other RTS games.

I don't have any money to buy any games yet, so does anyone care to recommend me some good RTS demos?

I've owned Age of Empires 3 and Company of Heroes, so those two are out.

Edit: M birthday is coming up soon, so recommend me some titles to beg/command ask my friends to get me.

Oh, get Ground Control 1 or 2. 2 has the new generation graphics along with other stuff, both of them defined the graphics bar for the next 5 years in RTS's.

Ground Control 1 came out in 2000, so its going to not look as good as other RTS's, but the gameplay of it is so amazing. These are the same guys who made World In Conflict of course, so you could go buy them instead, but anyway Ground Control 1 is free.

http://www.fileplanet.com/promotions/groundcontrol/

 

[Fearzone]

If you can't wait 9 days, then I say Universe at War. You should be able to get it for a few dollars from the bargain bin, and it should keep you occupied for about 9 days. It's pretty fun and has a good single-player campaign, for what it is.

Or if you have a console, then Brutal Legend. If you are an RTS fan, Brutal Legend shows the potential for RTSs to be viable on consoles, even if it doesn't quite reach RTS greatness. It does have a great story and single-player campaign.

 

[zehydra]

Homeworld. A classic.

 

[TerranReaper]

Starcraft 2 is coming out in less than 8 days , although that's a given so we'll go to other RTS games. The Dawn of War games are fairly good in my opinion, DoW2 wasn't as great as the first one but that's solely based on my experiences with it. Total War series is also good, but that's mainly single player. The first few Command and Conquer games are also free to download, and I suggest trying those out. Homeworld series are also good and Sins of the solar empire as well.

 

[xNaturalMystic]

Starcraft 2 simple and clean, that is the RTS to pick up for probably the decade lol

 

['The Eel']

Rise of Nations or Dawn of War

 

[Ridonculous_Ninja]

If you want to pick up a new game and be able to compete online right away, pick up Starcraft 2 when it comes out.

If you want a great game that you'll have to work on a bit to compete online, pick up Starcraft and the expansion.

They're both good games (I have played both) but Starcraft 2 is ridiculously easy in comparison to the first one, and everyone who was playing in the beta with the exception of the people who competed in the Teamliquid tournaments and such still suck.

Also to the one guy who was talking about Starcraft stagnating, wtf? Brood War has changed as recently as last week when the entire ZvZ matchup got flipped upside down and we have 40 minute games where there were previously 10 minute games. It's changing all the time. The interface is old but that just means you have to be better.

 

[Jaeke]

Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth II

 

[Yoshemo]

After finally getting bored of Age of Empires 3, I decided it's time to look for other RTS games.

I don't have any money to buy any games yet, so does anyone care to recommend me some good RTS demos?

I've owned Age of Empires 3 and Company of Heroes, so those two are out.

Edit: M birthday is coming up soon, so recommend me some titles to beg/command ask my friends to get me.

Try Ruse. Its an RTS that allows you to use psychological warfare on your enemies. Theres 3 days left in the free week of play on Steam if you want to try it

 

[Death on Trapezoids]

*Shrugs*
Starcraft, as always, is a good one. Plus, the entire battle chest runs about $20.
Otherwise I've heard good things about Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War 2.

 

[krseyffert]

a few of my favourites are

Company of heroes
Sins of a solar empire
dawn of war(dark crusade & soulstorm)

those are my top 3 RTSs. enjoy