I agree the stealth is really awkward. It might just be because I've only been playing for a few hours and I haven't got a lot of stealth upgrades but I think the guards spot you way too easily if you do go past one of their patrol points. You'd think having the corner of a wall breaking the line of sight between you and the guard would prevent them from getting alarmed.Palademon said:
I really don't like Deus Ex: HR
- Thread starter Knobody13
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Righty lets go through these points shall we.Knobody13 said:
Choice - Okay this confuses. Im like 2 hour in and while doing the very first wharehouse mission I saved it and went through about 3 different playstyles, guns blazing, popping from cover to cover and murdering everyone I saw. Then I went sneaky stealth and systematically murdered everyone, then I tried not not killing anyone at all. How are "shoot people that are aware of you", "shoot people that dont know your there" or "dont shoot people" all stealth choices? Thats ALL the choices in any fps ever.
AI - Its average, not great not terrible. Guards walk in particular patterns because they are guards? Thats...their job?
The EXP - Okay this one is a no-brainer for me. Not killing is harder so it grants the most exp(see Ghost bonus), silently killing people gives the next amount since they can stand up, killing them gives the least because its easy to do. Harder things give better rewards?
Controls - I'm not a fan of cover-based shooting but it worked fine. Its just different to what people are used to. Personally I liked the dual option of hold or tap. It meant you didnt need to swap between different buttons and was easier and quicker to preform since it was always the same button.
Upgrades etc - There are upgrades for the sprint, don't like the sprint, get the upgrades, personally I though it was fine since I didn't need it for my playstyle. Also if a lot of the upgrades are useless why would you want them upgraded at the start? I just checked the upgrades and would you care to clarify what ones are terrible? I almost could not decide what i wanted for my first aug since there were so many I liked and so many that suited how I was going to play.
Voices - Okay if you think the conversations themselves are bad, you are clearly insane. The animations arent top-notch, but the actual voicing and conservations are pretty amazing and are above and beyond 90% of fps's out there. And quite simply if you didnt like or even appricieate the "arguement battles" with some of the characters, then your expectations are far too high, because the first arguement battle thing after the first missions completely suprised me. "Conversation choices that ARENT cliche good/evil, choices that are actually HUMAN" and I got a great reward by basically saving everyone which I found very satisfying.
Side-note: I too play stealthy and love stealth games. All the Thief games, all the Stalker games, played stealthy in Oblivion like you.
I could never really get into the first one, and some guy on Kotaku started insulting me because I said I wasn't excited for this game, and then kept going on about how I have something "against" it. Like I said, I never played much of the first, but I still don't see what the big deal is. Just because a game is popular does make it good, especially since good is a matter of personal opinion/preference.
A tip, if you want a civilized discussion then don't go charging in and swinging your profanity bag around.Knobody13 said:
Game has quite a few faults for sure, to me the good parts still outweigh the bad but I guess that isn't true for everyone, so ebay is your best friend on that part.
I also don't like the hacking, the controls are just all wrong on that one.
And the art style, yes the gold bloom against dark is a cool novelty, but they were overly impressed with it and just kept it going... it's like my mom's cooking after she discovers a new spice, suddenly everything starts to taste the same way.
Wuggy said:
Ooooh i love break downs. The reason its not cleaned up is because it is 8:am in the morning here and i have not slept all night. I agree that my rhetoric is terrible but honestly i didn't think I would get too many replies to my post. I was just tired disgruntled and i needed to tell someone how i felt so i chose the internet.
you have all very valid points but i dont think they refute my poorly worded thesis. The game is advertised as able to be played how you want; and i believe in this regard it falls flat on its face. As everyone here has noted there are slightly different flavors of play but there never really seems to be a real choice of food.
The reason i pointlessly listed the types of games i like and have played was to avoid the wave of "go back to call of duty this is a tactical shooter and u just don't understand it."
You are correct a cover based shooter does not have to be a stealth game but this game doesnt really deliver too well in either category. Its like every option it gives you ruins every other option. When you are discovered the AI flips a coin on whether or not it will take cover and exchange fire with you or charge forward trying to "find you" leaving them easy picking for a weapon.
Now most importantly. I see the line of reasoning behind the exp split but i don't agree with it. Shooting someone with the taser or dart gun is actually just as easy if not easier on some enemies thna using bullets. The fact that i can not get as much exp using my playstyle as someone else using a different playstyle means that at the end of the game they will have more augs than me and possibly be better than me at doing what i chose to do, IN ADDITION to what they chose to do.
So now we get to the supposed contradiction of my love for realistic melee atttacks and my seeming distaste for realistic bullet damage. They seem to contradict until you take into account my argument. This game punishes u for making choices it disapproves of. Those that choose not to cower behind chest-high walls will die almost immediately. Likewise those who would prefer to SILENTLY kill an opponent with a swift strike to the throat, head, heart, lungs or spine, all locations that would result in relatively quick and quiet incapacitation, will get 10 points less than those that choose the "right way" i.e bopping them on the head and breaking their elbow in backward. Oh and even though the actions shown in both lethal and nonlethal cinematics would generate comparable noise the game decides to punish u for killing people by making it alert every freaking enemy in the room and even sometimes adjacent rooms.
My argument isnt so much that this is a bad game its just that i dont think its game of the year and for a game that advertises an emphasis on player choice it sure doesnt seem to offer much of it to me.
Deimateos said:
I didnt save her on my first playthrough either, no decent weapons to kill a lot of badguys quickly, and I used all my toys on the boss battle before it. But I got the impression that she only died because I took too long killing them, so in my second try I saved some and it actually worked 
I didnt find her at tongs place the first time though, so Ill have to check that out again, thanks!
I didnt find her at tongs place the first time though, so Ill have to check that out again, thanks!
To the guy above me. Stealthily taking down everyone gets a lot harder in the second half of the game where sometimes 6-8 guys are covering eachother in the same room. It kinda makes me think of Commandos, another game where enemies have set patrolroutes and can be taken out individually, but once the alarm goes off you are pretty much fucked. Anyway you might get 1 or 2 less praxis points with commandostyling in the end, but you don't need any stealth upgrades, whereas the stealthy players can still use the combat upgrades for the boss battles. And later in the game you can't be stealthy AND KO. everyone, you will have to leave some of them alone entirely where rambo still gets xp from them because he doesnt care about those silly alarms.
Sigh I don't even know what to say to people about their obsession with swearing and nudity and how it devalues humanity. Im sure there is a forum rule about swearing somewhere and i try to respect that but its very hard for me to turn it completely off when i just type what comes to mind and dont proofread thingsMr.K. said:
It might possibly be the fact that you're playing a certain way; Stealth may give more points to silent killings intentionally, since that's the point of stealth. If that's true, then that gripe is your own folly. You even said that certain gameplay styles get more EXP for doing different things, so maybe this is one of those exceptions. Stealth gets more for non-lethal melee.
Other than that, I can't say. I've played no demos, but AI does look retarded from gameplay videos. As for the Parkinson's, there isn't a single character who looks like they don't have a paralyzing disease during in-gameplay speaking. Cutscenes, which I don't think you mentioned, always look and sound much better. Your concerns with control may not apply to me, because if and when I get it, it will be over Steam.
*fanfare*
[HEADING=2]PC Gaming Master Race, awaaaaaay.[/HEADING]
Other than the "choice" problem, you're basically saying exactly what every critic has said before now, so at least what you're saying is all legitimate.
Other than that, I can't say. I've played no demos, but AI does look retarded from gameplay videos. As for the Parkinson's, there isn't a single character who looks like they don't have a paralyzing disease during in-gameplay speaking. Cutscenes, which I don't think you mentioned, always look and sound much better. Your concerns with control may not apply to me, because if and when I get it, it will be over Steam.
*fanfare*
[HEADING=2]PC Gaming Master Race, awaaaaaay.[/HEADING]
Other than the "choice" problem, you're basically saying exactly what every critic has said before now, so at least what you're saying is all legitimate.
Yeah, you're a freaking obvious troll and talking out your backside. News flash my first Deus Ex HR game was a combat run. I did it fantastically. I shot shotguns while running from cover to cover with no recoil I killed people head on with my fists. I dropped in and use a typhoon shot ruin some private security guy's day.Knobody13 said:
Simply because it's a cover-based shooter does not mean it does not support combat. It supports a different kind of combat. You use cover to slide around and flank. You're not going to be some unstoppable tank. However, you can be a guy who pops up puts ten guys down with head shots. The combat is so much more involved that just gunning for the best. Sometimes I disappeared from my current position so I could leave a mine where I was and watch four guys blow themselves to hell.
My knockout count for that game was like five, my kill count was easily in the double digits. To be fair though. I think anyone's a troll if they use "U" instead of "You".
No, he was advising you not to swear about a game people are bound to like if you want to be thought of as a civilized person who wants a discussion and not a troll who wants to rile everyone up. While you are certainly the former, swearing may make some people think otherwise.Knobody13 said:
I dont think being illogically upset and tired enough to post your feelings online constitute trolling. If ure implying that I am lying to piss of fanboys you couldn't be farther from the truth. Im glad you enjoyed your time playing the game and diddnt suffer the same problems im having. I use u instead of you because its a bad habit from when i played monster hunter and every second spent typing could potentially end you and your teams life. Sorry it bothers youInkidu said:
Good for fucking you. Why should we care?
Also, I would have given more of a shit about your opinion if you put effort into writing it instead of using 'u' when you really mean 'you'. And when you say 'you' you actually just mean yourself. No one else had the same problems.
Also, I would have given more of a shit about your opinion if you put effort into writing it instead of using 'u' when you really mean 'you'. And when you say 'you' you actually just mean yourself. No one else had the same problems.
I loved the game except for the final area and final boss fight, which I felt lost any challenge the game previously had and just became a chore. I don't want to spoil anything so I won't go into any more detail than that. Also upgrading my revolver to shoot exploding bullets made the game way too easy. I do feel that the 'play it how you want' factor was somewhat limited but in no way a failure, you can play it like a call of duty style run and gun or go stealth and systematically take out your enemies without being detected. You can focus on hacking but sacrifice upgrade points which are necessary for the higher level of hacking in the game or you can find the codes needed by searching around. There are also multiple paths for you to take when navigating, such as going through the front door, crawling through an air vent or even punching your way through a wall. The upgrade system was able to support these choices well and none of the upgrades seemed in any way overpowered or necessary above the others. I agree that the AI is a little too dumb, making it easy to deal with them but I only played the game on the medium difficulty setting, so maybe on the hard setting the enemies are less oblivious and more thorough in their searching? One thing i disliked was the lack of any melee attacks, you can't even execute someone you have knocked unconscious. All you have for melee is the 'takedowns' which lock you into a mini cutscene, which though impressive and occasionally humorous, grew irritating and cut up the gameplay too much. They are also very limited as they take up a lot of the energy resource in the game, these takedowns advertise that the character is equipped with two assassins creed-esque knives but the fact that they cannot be used conveniently is just illogical and frustrating. Overall I believe it was a fantastic game, though not without its flaws, which I believe were the final segments of the game and the lack of melee attacks.
Hmm...went on a pretty big rant but you asked for discussion so there you have it.
Hmm...went on a pretty big rant but you asked for discussion so there you have it.
u dont have to care. then why are u responding to my post? I guess i should be sorry i wasted space on YOUR forum posting my opinion. And I'm doubly sorry i didn't double the size of my post by putting "in my opinion" before every declarative statement i made. I'm not quite pretentious enough to think my perception of the world is objective; but thanks for keeping me on my toes just in case i was.ultimateownage said:
My current play-through on the hardest difficulty setting with little-to-no efforts at being stealthy would like to have a word with you. Just because you aren't good at the combat doesn't mean it isn't a viable option, it just means you're doing something wrong. Heck, the simple fact that every review for Deus Ex can't agree on whether the combat or the stealth is easier is proof enough that this is a "play it how you want" game. Again, just because one method is easier for you doesn't mean that the other isn't viable with the right play-style.Knobody13 said:
Yes yes, real classy. Everyone loves to take pot shots at the cover system in every game because it's the popular target these days. Bottom line: the cover system works. It works well. It isn't just some "We'll focus this game around cover-based shooting because it's the only idea we have" game, this is a "We'll use a cover system because other games have used it well in the past, and we think it will add to this game, too". And it does. It's pure genius how your character (who is very physically fit) has the ability to dive and dodge from one cover to the next rather than just clumsily crouch-walking from place to place.
Also, exactly what are you attempting to imply, anyway? Are you trying to say that standing in the middle of an open field should be a viable strategy during a gun fight? I have news for you, shooters have had cover systems ever since the invention of the strafe feature; it's called strafing behind a wall. If having to use a cover system offends you so much, just duck behind a box, then stand-up manually when you're ready to shoot. And if it offends you to even use a box as cover with that over-done crouching mechanic, then go ahead and just never use cover. See how far that gets you... in any FPS title.