I take 40k seriously I and I find it fun as Hell

[The_Lost_King]

Yeah, you heard me. Space Marines are gay.

It sort of makes sense. That way Space Marines can't be distracted from doing there job by women. What guy is going to try and flirt a space marine into stopping an exterminatus?

 

[Smolderin]

I agree with the OP. Though I know it is rather silly when you get down to it, I take Warhammer 40k as seriously as I take the world of Middle Earth. I am just a giant sucker for those kind of things and the world they have is just so fleshed out with a rich and detailed history with fascinating cultures and the like that for me its kind of hard not to get into Warhammer 40k. Honestly, that is the appeal of Warhammer 40k...it's because its so insanely over the top that I love Warhammer to death.

 

[Artemis923]

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR! LET THE GALAXY BURN!

Who doesn't like bolters and chainswords? Or chainaxes, power fists, meltaguns, autocannons, plasma guns, fusion blasters, bright lances, dark lances, liquifier guns, agonizers, lightning claws, thunder hammers, lascannons, flamers, shredders, void mines, chain fists, choppas, shootas, power klaws, lasguns(er, flashlights...), demo charges, frag grenades, krak grenades, plague grenades, plasma grenades, sonic blasters, dirge sirens, shotguns, ripper guns, flesh borers, disintegrator cannons, grenade launchers, phantasm grenade launchers, torment grenade launchers, klaives, relic blades, sniper rifles, hellblades, singing spears...

I play Chaos, Dark Eldar, and Eldar armies. I can't get enough 40k, I wish I had more time to assemble, paint, and play.

So many awesome weapons, so many fun armies, so little money... T-T

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I got into 40k through reading the various bits of lore surrounding Necrons and Tyranids, mostly. I distinctly remember reading this one story about a Techpriest realising that the Machine God is just a necron, and ripping out all of his mechanical implants from sheer horror.
I think that 40k has absolutely huge (entirely untapped) potential to make great horror films or horror games. If THQ made a survival horror involving exploring slowly awakening necron ruins, or being hunted by Dark Eldar, or coming up against chaos, or being a human on a planet being invaded by 'nids... oh man, that could amazing. And terrifying.


Anyway, I think the element of infinite potential for all kinds of stories is what makes the 40k universe special. It can be satire and parody of overblown sci-fi, or it can be overblown sci-fi, or it can be a more individual focussed drama or tragedy, or bleak horror. It's just a matter of finding the right writer.

 

[Saviordd1]

I feel like I've discussed this before

Oh wait.....


OT: I wouldn't compare it to Game of Thrones, in game of thrones (at least as far as I've gotten) things go towards more of a realistic stint and not a "dark" direction.

Beyond that I still don't like WH40K for its story and never will; though I can see why some people could enjoy it and the orks do seem to be an odd sort of fun.

But anyone who attempts to make me see the WH40K universe in a serious and non-joking light will continue to lose my ear very quickly.

 

[Lord Garnaat]

I think that the difference between the darkness of Warhammer and the darkness of A Song of Ice and Fire is that the universe in the later feels like something that could actually happen. Bad things happen, sometimes they happen to good people, but there are a lot of genuinely good people as well, and when tragedy strikes it does in a way that resembles what happens in the real world. Warhammer 40k is different in that it is just so dark, and so grim, that it turns around and becomes not very dark and grim at all. It's a bit like the Witcher series in that sense, it just tries to be tragic and serious so much that it turns right around and becomes a bit of a joke.

The point is, it's something that can be enjoyed, there's no doubt about that. But shouldn't really take the story too seriously.

 

[BreakfastMan]

I am of the opinion that the 40K universe is just schlock. Pure schlock. Thing about schlock is that it can often be really fun and awesome. Which is also what the 40K universe is. Really fun, very enjoyable schlock. It doesn't have much in the way of brains, but it sure is a blast to play in.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I am of the opinion that the 40K universe is just schlock. Pure schlock. Thing about schlock is that it can often be really fun and awesome. Which is also what the 40K universe is. Really fun, very enjoyable schlock. It doesn't have much in the way of brains, but it sure is a blast to play in.

The best thing about schlock is you can cut a tiny corner of the VAST schlock that is 40K and, for a moment, do some serious story telling of in a tiny niche away from the schlock while still being aware of and making references to the fact that its schlock. Ravenor for me was a really good book away from the schlock. Its about 1 of 4 good 40k series i read not for "OMFG WTF BBQ" funzies in my glorious glorious pond of schlock. 99% of it is pure and utter "No rules, no limits, be a stereotypical and obvious as you can, take it to the UTTER extreme" and its amazingly fun. It reminds me of when i was a kid and used to play imaginary tank battles with my friends and i would scream "MY TANK HAS 100 spikes and FIFTY cannons and fires exploding DEMONS!" and not a single person would go "Thats SUCH a trope gawd! eye roll". It was just over the top crazy fun and the 40k series lets me have that again to a degree.

I think Ravenor succeeds because im not expected to care about the people who arnt described in the story and that i dont get to know. Its a lot like Sherlock in the sense that i couldnt care less if Moriarty kills some apparently important people or steals a grand secret but i care if Sherlock is outfoxed or outwitted by a genius plan that utterly screws him and his friends over. The fact its some awesome vast mindgame in a universe of schlock REALLY appeals to me. Its just two people setting clever traps on eachother with an arsenal of every crazy thing the 40K universe can muster which leads to some clever "Oh fuck that clever asshole..." moments. The 40k universe is too vast to care about even a 100 worlds of people which is where LOADS of them fail because im expected to care if the guardsmen can save the world, rather than caring about the guardsmen themselves with real names and rank (gaunts ghosts you broke this trope well).

 

[Dogstile]

I like 40k myself but it hard to take a universe seriously when their machines are repaired though the power of prayer.

You do realise its not literal prayer, but to them, knowledge and technology is the religion right? They just say a prayer as they're repairing. Preparing a machine for battle is actual diagnostics and loading, but it has become a ritual. Its actually really quite an interesting take on religion.

 

[Zipa]

Yeah, you heard me. Space Marines are gay.

It sort of makes sense. That way Space Marines can't be distracted from doing there job by women. What guy is going to try and flirt a space marine into stopping an exterminatus?

Space marines don't have a sex drive, they go through basically a form of brainwashing so it would never be a issue.

 

[kannibus]

Perhaps it's a sort of nerdy version of Oprah or some of those other talk shows. Essentially, no matter how crappy your life is, at least you don't have to worry about being eaten by tyranids or something.

 

[Darks63]

I like 40k myself but it hard to take a universe seriously when their machines are repaired though the power of prayer.

You do realise its not literal prayer, but to them, knowledge and technology is the religion right? They just say a prayer as they're repairing. Preparing a machine for battle is actual diagnostics and loading, but it has become a ritual. Its actually really quite an interesting take on religion.

yeah i realize some of the prayers/rituals are like that the lasgun litanies for example but then they have prayer censors and such for bigger operations that have little to do with actually fixing the tech.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

And the great thing that 40K suffers from is that none of what you described above ever appears in the game. Instead of the poignant drama of human characters struggling and learning from a hostile universe, you have super-human Übermensch carving their names onto the hearts of demons because someone at Game$ Work$hop corporate HQ thought that this would sell more Grey Knight models to the 12-16 male demographic.

I've got no problem with people who enjoy GW- I used to be a fan myself.

Actually some authors of fluff have definitely set this tone VERY well. Dan Abnet is the only one i know to actually make an effort to set up this kind of thing in the fluff. Ravenor and gaunts ghosts were really good for this reason. He also repeatedly states in his little authors note that he despises writing about space marines for this exact reason. Im not a fool. 99% of the fluff is EXACTLY as you describe it "The ultrakill legion of doom kill death destroy blood soul dark elite sniper" kind of guys flying out the wazoo. I think everything written by Dan properly reflects everything 40K could be. Crazy setting with interesting characters and situations that properly explore the mind of a man being forced to reconcile, fight and defeat things he just cannot understand in places he never wished to go. Or outwit an enemy who was trained in every way to undermine his work at every turn. Its like sherlock in space and i love it. In terms of the actual game itself? Cant argue, its why i stopped playing myself. It just lacks depth for me.

Also if you dont mind me saying Kat-Kun, youre usually quite... well composed during online debates. "Game$s workshop?", "Man dollies"? Ive never seen you attack something so... personally? There a story behind that?

 

[DrDuckman]

The only thing more ravenous than a 40K fan is an ex-40k fan. GW alienated a LOT of people who kept trying to take the game itself in a serious tournament style direction. Which obviously does not work in a game with so many factions/units/special rules, and GW does not particularly try. Which I am actually ok with. Not so much with the pricing, but their models ARE better, and frankly, there are ways around it.

Personally, I play and enjoy several different game systems and settings, including Malifaux, Infinity, Kings of War, Warmachine, Dystopian Wars and ofcourse 40k.

And while I have to agree, as a game, 40k is the least balanced and well designed of them all, it's also by far the most fun. This is partly because the game is designed for awesome moments and crazy units instead of pure tournament balance, partly because the fluff has decades of material to draw from, and thus is much more refined, and partly because, well, the models are just better to actually model with. Mostly thought, it's because its the only wargame that seems to be about going pew pew with your awesome toy soldiers, and while the purists might hate that, it IS why most of us are here, really.

Now obviously, sometimes I want an interesting tactical challenge, and this I play Malifaux. Sometimes I want a good tight tournament style duel, and thus I play Warmachine. Sometimes I just want to feel like a general, and I play dystopian wars. But when I want to have FUN, and immerse myself in a fantasy battle with crazy aliens, I always turn to 40k.

As for the setting, yeah, the brilliance of it is that it's so varied, you can do pretty much whatever with it. You can even set a not so grimdark story into it, and there are some in the BL. Mostly, it's just the most fun guilty pleasure universes out there, and that includes Star Trek, Judge Dredd and Star Wars for me.

Never did get into Fantasy though. For some reason the cartoony over the topness of the fluff and models works in sci fi, but not in fantasy, atleast for me. I tend to prefer LOTR, or Mantic's Kings of War.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Not sure if serious, or troll...

And the great thing that 40K suffers from is that none of what you described above ever appears in the game. Instead of the poignant drama of human characters struggling and learning from a hostile universe, you have super-human Übermensch carving their names onto the hearts of demons because someone at Game$ Work$hop corporate HQ thought that this would sell more Grey Knight models to the 12-16 male demographic.

None of the plot every really appears in the "game" itself, which is a tabletop strategy affair. The plot is mostly detailed in the codexes (codices?), the Black Library novels, and the comics. It's called "fluff" for a reason - you can ignore it if you don't like it, or you can roll around it in like a hyperactive kitten if it's your thing.

It's not actually a weakness for the game that it separates its plot out from the actual dice-rolling. It means you can play and enjoy the hobby without having to deal with the fluff if you don't want to.

I've got no problem with people who enjoy GW- I used to be a fan myself. But let's be honest about what it is. It's McDonald's. It's Brittney Spears. It's a game that is shallow narratively, strategically, and in visual design. It is a corporate-designed money-spinning franchise that lost any shred of heart and soul it may have once possessed at least 20 years ago.

I don't know, man. Firstly, Warhammer has never, ever been mainstream, so it's hardly Brittney Spears. It's more of a niche market, like what comic books were before the Marvel film franchise really took off.

It's also fundamentally a creative endeavour, unlike McDonalds. By that I mean that it is corporate-designed and intended to produce money, but because its basis is creative (in the sense of producing art and story) it can be taken advantage of by skilled writers and artists to produce something impressive.

Look at Star Wars - there's no greater example of a cash cow franchise in history, but it's given birth to stuff like KotOR II, which was an deconstruction both of the setting's moral foundations and of traditional RPG game mechanics, or Timothy Zahn's EU novels, which most people think have better writing than the actual movies.

A setting can be made primarily for the purposes of generating revenue and still produce artistically valuable works. But you wouldn't know that, because;

I don't really read the novels, so I can't count on them. But I regard them as pretty tangential to the 40K experience.

which is why I wasn't sure you were trolling or not. How can you say that the setting is mindless nonsense if you've never read any of the novels? They're not tangential to the setting. In some cases, they are the setting, because like I said, the fluff doesn't impact on the actual gameplay in any way whatsoever.

I said before that you can enjoy the 40k setting in a number of different ways, including ignoring it completely, but you can't make any judgement at all without having properly experienced it. It's like a film critic reviewing the Avengers film and saying it was trash without actually watching the film, based solely on his prejudices regarding comic book fans.

Also;

As for "man-dollies", well, that's what they are. Miniatures are toys. Don't be mistaken, I love assembling and painting miniatures. But often times I find table-top miniature gamers tend to take their hobby a bit to seriously, and I find it useful to remember (and remind others) that the hobby really isn't all that much different from playing with dollies.

Seriously?