I think Dark Souls 2 should be more like Demon's Souls

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al4674

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To get things out of the way, I believe Demon's Souls to be superior to Dark Souls in every way. From the level design, atmosphere, combat etc, to the actual difficulty and challenge. By the latter, I mostly mean the legitimacy and fairness of challenge.

First of all, while Dark Souls may be an open world that's fully connected - I feel that this is just an illusion. Dark Souls is a linear game that's disguised as an open world experience. The metroidvania format pretty much means that you only have a handful of paths you can go through and you are actually restricted from progressing without going through necessary dungeons and finding necessary items.

In Demon's Souls, however, the entire game is already open to you. The central hub, Nexus, already connects all the worlds you can go to and nothing actually forbids you from entering all these areas apart from the challenge and difficulty. You could complete half of Stonefang, then come back and visit the Valley of Defilement, then take a visit to Latria, come back to Stonefang etc etc. There were always options and I was never actually limited by general world design. On paper, the connected world of Dark Souls sounds more free and just better, but in practice I found the hub design of the Nexus far more liberating.

The second thing I would like to adress is the challenge. Before I start complaining, I would point out that the majority of hype about the difficulty of both games is grotesquely over-exaggerated and inflated. Mostly I feel that it is done by the very people who've managed to complete the game and they do it for the sole purpose of further glorifying their achievement.

With that said, Demon's Souls was much more fair when it came to the difficulty and when I died, I always felt that it was more or less my fault. However, in Dark Souls, many times when I died I felt cheated. I felt like it wasn't really my fault and I was tricked by the game.

Trial and death is not a valid from of difficulty. In Demons, the dangers were more or less predictable and I was told of the ''rules'' of the fight before actually dying. In Dark, I would have to die to learn the ''rules''. The best example I could give is the first encounter with the Mimic in the Sen Fortress. Before this moment, the game had never given me any reason to suspect that the chests might be rigged. Even in the very room where the mimic is, there is nothing that points to danger - I only know of the danger after I had activated the trap and I think it is unfair that I have to die to learn the lesson. Demon's never required me to die to learn from my mistakes.

For these reasons, I feel that a part of Dark Souls difficulty is artificially inflated for the sole reason of living up to the reputation of its predecessor - that this game is hard and we'll show you why.

I don't have much to say about the combat, but I felt it was more precise in Demon's.

TLDR - use Demon's as a template. It's better.

What do you guys think, I'll probably get some flak for putting Demon's higher on the pedestal, but oh well.
 

ShinyCharizard

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I agree with you on all points. What I would love Dark Souls 2 to do is to take the hub world and level aspect of Demon's
Souls and combine it with the more open feel of Dark Souls. What I mean by that is have multiple paths to complete each world instead of the one way available in Demon's Souls. Also the atmosphere of Demon's Souls was miles beyond that of Dark Souls. It truly captured a feeling of loneliness and despair that Dark Souls lacked.
 

chadachada123

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I agree on most points, OP, and have one of my own to add: The bosses, I felt, were much better in Demon's Souls.

In Dark Souls, most bosses follow the same routine: Big room, few (if any) obstacles, boss is twice to ten times your size, run around and hope you don't get hit by a cheap shot.

In Demon's Souls, though, there were many more "environmental"-based bosses that required a lot more forethought before you could proceed. You were FORCED to back the fuck up, chill the fuck out, and pay attention to their attack pattern before you could even THINK to get close to them, let alone attack them.

Dark Souls doesn't have a single boss like that, barring the Bed of Chaos, which was VERY poorly implemented.

I DID like seeing that some of the earlier bosses end up being common enemies later in the game in Dark Souls, though, and hope they repeat that (Taurus Demon, Capra Demon).

ShinyCharizard said:
I agree with you on all points. What I would love Dark Souls 2 to do is to take the hub world and level aspect of Demon's
Souls and combine it with the more open feel of Dark Souls. What I mean by that is have multiple paths to complete each world instead of the one way available in Demon's Souls. Also the atmosphere of Demon's Souls was miles beyond that of Dark Souls. It truly captured a feeling of loneliness and despair that Dark Souls lacked.
This guy. I like this guy. I would love to see your level design in action, and agree whole-heartedly on atmosphere.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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I prefer most of the bosses from Dark Souls. The exceptions being 4 kings, centipede demon, and ceaseless discharge. Just like I prefer Flamelurker, Fool's Idol, Garl Vinland, and False King Allant from the first game.

But bosses like the ones in the Storm Shrine, Leechmonger, Dirty Colossus, and Penetrator were pretty weak. I actually like Phalanx and wish it were later boss, and maybe much bigger.

As for the level design, while I love Latria and Boletaria, the others were pretty meh. I appreciate the variety in both, and in Dark Souls I don't much care for the lava field/crystal caverns, but I have to give the edge to Dark Souls in level design. Sen's Fortress and Anor Londo in particular. The Painted World of Ariamis is my favorite in either game and I wish it were bigger and maybe had a mid boss. I quite enjoyed Ooacile even if it was full of holes. The final part was creepy; Like a way better version of ToG.

Saying that Dark Souls is more linear is kinda odd considering as soon as you get to the Firelink Shrine you have access to New Londo, the Catacombs, Valley of Drakes, The Demon Ruins, The Undead Burg, Undead Parish, Darkroot Garden, Ash Lake, The Great Hollow, and Blighttown.

You do not even have to GO into the depths, and you can skip the Gaping Dragon and 2/3 of Blighttown. The only thing stopping you is getting your ass kicked.

The only places you don't have access to from the start are The Depths, Sen's Fortress, Duke's Archives, Anor Londo, Crystal Caverns, Lost Izalith, Tomb of Giants, and the Kiln.

If you are really good you can go grab the Great Scythe, kill Pinwheel, and get the art of kindling before you even head up the stairs to the Burg. You can go kill Ingward and be a Super Saiyan and kill 4 kings/become a dark wraith at lv 1.

You can cut through Valley of Drakes into the back of Blighttown and skip Gaping Dragon, the sewers, and all those blowgun guys. You can run right over to the great hollow and grab that sweet sweet Cloranthy Ring.

There are even more ways to get through Dark Root Forest. And if you chose to start with a master key then you have more options. I choose Wanderer in both games 100% of the time though.

In Demon's Souls you can't skip any bosses. You can't go to 2-2 and find a shortcut to 4-2. You CAN skip a lot of 4-1 though which is nice.

All these years later I still think it took serious guts to make 5-2 in Demon's Souls. A whole level with most of it being a poison bog. Not every developer would have done that.

Doing it again essentially with Blighttown AND the lava fields in Dark Souls felt FAR less creative however.

I prefer the nexus to Firelink Shrine though, but Gwynevere's giant illusory rack is way better than ole wax-eyes.

I'm looking forward to even more impressive levels in Dark Souls 2. Ideally they will decide to forgo the now obligatory "the ground is poison/lava/invisible" levels in favor of levels with traps and enemies. Hopefully they don't decide to put a bunch of lever/block pushing puzzles or lengthy wall climbing sections in it like so many other action games.

Nothing kills the atmosphere in a good dark fantasy/gothic action game like having to push blocks around for 20 minutes every few hours. I'm looking at you Soul Reaver.
 

kyogen

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I don't want Dark Souls 2 to be like Demon's Souls. It's a direct sequel to Dark Souls and should reflect more of that game's design elements and lore.

I have a personal fondness and preference for Demon's Souls, but I don't think I agree with some of your points, OP:

Demon's Souls is very linear inside of each world, and the transit points are very clearly laid out. It's literally a hub and spokes. Dark Souls twists areas back over themselves in ways reminiscent of complex, old-school dungeon crawlers, and there are players who can take on tougher sections as level-one characters. There is an easier path through the game if you need it, but it isn't spatially linear, which is a change from Demon's Souls.

Trial and error is a perfectly valid game design choice especially in a game whose tagline is "Prepare to Die." Death isn't failure in this game; it's just a learning experience and part of the normal rhythm of the game. Even the threat of lost souls and humanity works like an anti-loot system--sometimes you find useful stuff and get perks, and sometimes you lose a bit. Even your example of the mimic in Sen's is a little shaky because it's subjective. I've never had trouble with mimics. I run if boxes sprout limbs. However, I got fried by the red dragon my first time through Demon's Souls because I didn't anticipate one of his attacks.

I do agree that the difficult reputation is a bit inflated and that the nature of the difficulty is often badly misunderstood.
 

King Billi

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While I do think that Dark Souls is a significant improvement over Demon's Souls in alot of ways I do hope that with Dark Souls 2 we don't just see another cast of nearly identical characters with slightly differing apperances.

Ostrava - Solaire
Biorr - Siegmeyer
Freke - Logan
Urbain - Petrus
Yuria - Quelana
Yurt - Lautrec
Satsuko - Shiva
Scirvir - Domnhall
Patches - Patches!!!

I know certain character archetypes such as sorcerers and priests are needed in order to supply spells and miracles but some more unique characterisation and personalities would be appreciated. At least Dark Souls had some more variety when it came to merchants and blacksmiths.

chadachada123 said:
In Demon's Souls, though, there were many more "environmental"-based bosses that required a lot more forethought before you could proceed. You were FORCED to back the fuck up, chill the fuck out, and pay attention to their attack pattern before you could even THINK to get close to them, let alone attack them.

Dark Souls doesn't have a single boss like that, barring the Bed of Chaos, which was VERY poorly implemented.
Can you be more specific please, the only bosses from Demon's Souls I can think of as being "environmental" are The Dragon God, The Armor Spider and The Storm King.

Having played Dark Souls first I have to say I found the majority of the bosses in Demon's Souls to be much, much easier to defeat than those in Dark Souls, except the bosses they copied from Demon's Souls for some reason those were made significantly easier in Dark Souls?

Vanguard - Asylum Demon
Tower Knight - Iron Golem
False Idol - Pinwheel
Maneaters - Gargoyles
Armor Spider - Gwyndolin
 

chadachada123

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King Billi said:
chadachada123 said:
In Demon's Souls, though, there were many more "environmental"-based bosses that required a lot more forethought before you could proceed. You were FORCED to back the fuck up, chill the fuck out, and pay attention to their attack pattern before you could even THINK to get close to them, let alone attack them.

Dark Souls doesn't have a single boss like that, barring the Bed of Chaos, which was VERY poorly implemented.
Can you be more specific please, the only bosses from Demon's Souls I can think of as being "environmental" are The Dragon God, The Armor Spider and The Storm King.

Having played Dark Souls first I have to say I found the majority of the bosses in Demon's Souls to be much, much easier to defeat than their counterparts in Dark Souls, Yeah even alot of the bosses are carbon copies though much more improved copies in my opinion.
Those three were the ones I was referring to, actually. I'd like to see more bosses like those, especially The Storm King and "unique" bosses like the Old Monk (which, when played online, actually summons *another player to act as the boss for that world*).

Whether or not the bosses were easier in Demon's Souls, I'm not sure, since I haven't played it in quite some time. However, I do contend that the bosses in DeS were more *fair,* and a great deal more *fun.* When you get killed, it's because you messed up or weren't paying attention, not because the boss did something unpredictable or because the boss is ludicrously fast. That isn't to say that the bosses of Dark Souls were bad, just that they lacked variety, and had very little change in play style between bosses.

Take the False Idol, for example. No boss in Dark Souls required even this tiny amount of thought, where she not only made copies of herself that you had to discover, but also couldn't even be defeated without first taking care of something ahead of time. Take the Old Hero: No boss in Dark Souls was blind, or deaf, or something else that changed the tactics up considerably. Take the Adjudicator, where you could choose whether or not you wanted to fight from above and only deal with his tongue, or fight on the ground, with little space for maneuvering. Take the Storm King, which could only be beaten with ranged attacks, and is considered one of the most fun bosses of the game, with nothing even comparing it in Dark Souls.

I liked that some of the bosses of Dark Souls were optional, but I'd really like to see a return to having a huge variety of bosses and boss arenas. Especially Storm King.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well what Demon's Souls does better is the sense of scale, don't know if it is but the areas feel much bigger.
And their balance on bosses was way better because the fight would actually go on for more then a minute, the battle had a chance to build up into an epic finisher.

But there was some horrid stuff in it too, the checkpoints were an hour or more apart, and that level hub thing is a really cheap way to paste your game together... if you want us to believe even for a second there exists an actual world in peril then don't bloody do that.
 

lapan

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chadachada123 said:
I agree on most points, OP, and have one of my own to add: The bosses, I felt, were much better in Demon's Souls.

In Dark Souls, most bosses follow the same routine: Big room, few (if any) obstacles, boss is twice to ten times your size, run around and hope you don't get hit by a cheap shot.

In Demon's Souls, though, there were many more "environmental"-based bosses that required a lot more forethought before you could proceed. You were FORCED to back the fuck up, chill the fuck out, and pay attention to their attack pattern before you could even THINK to get close to them, let alone attack them.

Dark Souls doesn't have a single boss like that, barring the Bed of Chaos, which was VERY poorly implemented.
I completely disagree on the bosses. The gimmick bossfights at the end of each area were rather dissapointing in the same sense as Bed of Chaos was and there was even more of them. Storm King was kinda fun, but in no way a challenge and the Maiden was a atmosphere-only boss"fight".

Boss AI was generally much weaker with few exceptions. Maneaters were only hard because they could potentially spend half the fight flying until their buddy joined in. False Idol was Pinwheel with a gimmick of having to explore someplace else first, both being about the easiest bossfights of their games. Blind Mon kwas a great boss but pretty easy overall. The only bosses which were on par with Dark souls or better were: Flamelurker, False King and the Old Monk. The Old Monk on the other side was probably one of the best boss fights in both if you got a human player.

chadachada123 said:
Whether or not the bosses were easier in Demon's Souls, I'm not sure, since I haven't played it in quite some time. However, I do contend that the bosses in DeS were more *fair,* and a great deal more *fun.* When you get killed, it's because you messed up or weren't paying attention, not because the boss did something unpredictable or because the boss is ludicrously fast. That isn't to say that the bosses of Dark Souls were bad, just that they lacked variety, and had very little change in play style between bosses.
Which boss is "ludicrously fast"? Can't think of anyone but Ornstein, and he isn't that hard to keep track off. No boss did anything that wasn't predictable after the first encounter. They could use some more change of playstyle though.
 

VincentX3

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Played Dark souls first (On PC) loved it.
Then played Demon Souls, it was different yet the same. Also loved it.

In short both games are good.
Cant wait for Dark Souls 2.
/thread
 

Lawnmooer

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Demon's Souls made you have to complete another world before you could go past the Tower Knight into 1-4.

Also, Demon's Souls was ridiculously easy if you built your character correctly (Also helps if you go exploring into harder areas and pick up the Crescent Falchion in World 4-1 which completely destroys most of the things in the first few worlds, especially worlds 2 and 3)

I like how Dark Souls did the worlds, sure it wasn't "Open world" but you could go around at least some of the higher worlds if you could handle it (Heck I went into Blighttown pretty early on, killed a couple of things then died horribly) and the break up of the different worlds is nice. It also helps that getting to the world allows you to see if you're ready for it rather than being plonked into the middle of it (With an easy escape of returning to the Nexus negating a lot of danger)

I like how the checkpoints make you think it's easier but it's not much if at all. You can't keep dying and getting your souls back and decide "Oh I'll just go upgrade/repair a bunch of my things" since you then have to fight your way back (You'll also not memorise the spawn locations and such in reverse as easily)

I like how Dark Souls has bosses that move. The added difficulty of fighting a boss that doesn't just stand in place (Making is really easy to kill without being attacked if using a bow...) and of course learning how and when it is safe to get close and when you need to run away (Making you actually need to choose between heavy armour and a shield to block with or light enough armour that you can keep rolling away from the boss) that and the "Archdemons" where just stupid...

Though I did like Demon's Souls use of Magic and Miracles, being limited to a certain number of casts really sucks since I did like playing a spell caster (Weapons only there to provide passive mana regeneration)

Humanity is also a very annoying thing (I tend to spend a lot of grinding of humanity stones before I go out to actually do a world...) though is probably better than World Tendency (Which actually provided a bonus to staying dead until you completed the world and then repeatedly killing yourself after getting the White rewards)also the negative max health when dead, annoying as hell (Made the Cling Ring nigh mandatory)

All in all, both good games that I enjoy very much both with their upsides and their downsides.
 

chadachada123

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lapan said:
chadachada123 said:
I completely disagree on the bosses. The gimmick bossfights at the end of each area were rather dissapointing in the same sense as Bed of Chaos was and there was even more of them. Storm King was kinda fun, but in no way a challenge and the Maiden was a atmosphere-only boss"fight".

Boss AI was generally much weaker with few exceptions. Maneaters were only hard because they could potentially spend half the fight flying until their buddy joined in. False Idol was Pinwheel with a gimmick of having to explore someplace else first, both being about the easiest bossfights of their games. Blind Mon kwas a great boss but pretty easy overall. The only bosses which were on par with Dark souls or better were: Flamelurker, False King and the Old Monk. The Old Monk on the other side was probably one of the best boss fights in both if you got a human player.

chadachada123 said:
Which boss is "ludicrously fast"? Can't think of anyone but Ornstein, and he isn't that hard to keep track off. No boss did anything that wasn't predictable after the first encounter. They could use some more change of playstyle though.
I realize I made a mistake when I said there was no boss like the Old Hero. Crossbreed Priscilla, while not as tense of a fight, was a unique concept that I enjoyed.

It's funny that you mention Flamelurker, because, back before Dark Souls came out, he was regarded as, in addition to being probably the hardest boss, the most unfair/bullshit boss. I wonder what those same people would say today.

As far as atmosphere goes, Dark Souls's bosses were absolute shit when it came to atmosphere. Difficulty aside, Demon's Souls did much better on this account, even having a pseudo-boss like the Maiden of Astraea that was meant to rustle your jimmies more than challenge you. I *like* that it wasn't all "hurr difficulty" every step of the way, and had some parts that were hard...on your emotions.

I'll concede that Demon's Souls's bosses were easier, but I absolutely still contend that Dark Souls 2 should have basically a harder version of the bosses from Demon's Souls, and that the bosses of Dark Souls, while difficult, were pretty boring. I heard that the Artorias DLC had some fantastic bosses, though.

The thing about "gimmick bosses" is that two of the three "environmental" bosses in Demon's Souls were in the same world (Dragon King, Armored Spider), this world only having three bosses total. I can see how they could be disappointing if you were focused solely on the combat, but I found them to be very good for the atmosphere and something that wasn't replicated in Dark Souls.

Hell, I really like that they tried something new for every world, something entirely different, even if the execution is considered poor by some.

As far as "ludicrously fast" goes, I guess I was referring to the fact that many Dark Souls bosses follow the same pattern as Flamelurker. I exaggerated the speed, but still, you've got Sif, O&S, the Four Kings, the Gargoyles, Centipede Demon (not as fast, still unoriginal combat style), Quelaag (same as the rest but without the "jump across arena" attack)...I just feel like none of these changed anything. It's always "Keep running in circles, find an opening, attack, rinse, repeat."
 

Jimmy T. Malice

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Dark Souls may be more linear, but the world actually feels connected. In Demon's Souls I never really got a feel for the backstory and connection between each area, since all you get to go on is the paragraph of description in the Archstone menu.

Demon's Souls is much cheaper with deaths in several areas. There's one dragon bridge in Dark Souls which is fairly easy to pass through. In Demon's Souls, there are FOUR, and they're all incredibly tedious and hard to time. The one in 1-2 particularly raises my ire, because the dragon constantly performs strafing runs with its instant-death fire and it's impossible to avoid being hit even if you time it perfectly. The Dragon God is even worse- every attack kills you instantly and there's no way to even dodge most of them. I've never managed to kill that thing.

I never really felt as alone and hopeless in Demon's Souls as I did in Dark Souls. Maybe it's because I played the later game first, but also the fact that you were only a quick warp away from the hub at all times made me feel less like I was trapped in the dungeons and alone.
 

lapan

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chadachada123 said:
Fair enough, the bosses of Demon Souls win out in diversity at least, although i'd argue that not every one of those variations worked out that perfectly.

I never regarded Flamelurker as a unfair boss or anything. He was pretty similar to Dark Souls bosses in attack patterns, genuinely challenging and actually required you to use your skills in dodging and analyzing his attack patterns. Now Man Eaters was a bullshit bossfight, because of the time they could spend in the air while the countdown to the other guy appearing ran out. The Gargoyles were a giant improvement upon their concept.

With Gimmick bosses i meant Dragon God (oneshot attacks similar to Bed of Chaos, took me a while to figure out it was suppossed to be a stealth boss. One of my least favorite ones), Maiden Astrea (great atmosphere, but nothing you can repeat in more than one game without it getting stale and predictable), Storm King (Fun, but way too easy and Old Monk (the only gimmick done absolutely right in every way. More of those please, Fromsoft).
 

Mental Cosmas

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As Jimmy said, your first point has some validity, but while Dark Souls was still rather linear (although personally i feel at worst it was only slightly moreso then Demon's Souls), it had such great connectivity. The way each area connected to the other, how off in the distance in the tomb of the giants you could see the Demon Ruins. I thought it was an improvement. Although I will admit the Nexus was a damn awesome hub, the rest of the "world" I tended to think Dark Souls was a lot more... well, interesting to look at. Then again Demon's Souls had Latria, which was bloody brilliant I thought and far better then any Dark Souls prison.

Difficulty isn't something I feel like speaking about at the moment, but moving on.

I'll agree wholeheartedly that the bosses in Dark Souls (overall) had less variation and thus were less interesting (although I did like a decent chunk of them still). Pretty much all of Demon's Souls bosses I thought were a real treat. Even the very last one had beautiful symbolism.

Atmosphere... Yes, you know what? I felt hesitant but I will agree with you there. I loved the new locations in Dark Souls, the contrasts, but while they were more interesting to look at, they DID NOT have that same feeling of oppression to them in most cases. For example, while I actually loved the Crystal Caverns (am I the only one who liked the invisible walkways?), it was wonder, but no dread, no unease. It was... beautiful. I'm not entire sure how it could be done, but if they made something a bit more unnerving about it, it would be great.

One thing I think Dark Souls improved on were the characters. Yes, most of them were "expys" of ones from Demon's Souls. You know what? I don't mind, because they were better built on I thought, barring one or two exceptions (I must admit I find myself preferring Freke to big-hat).

But that's off topic. What was in Demon's Souls that wasn't in Dark Souls that I think would be beneficial to Dark Souls 2.

Well, atmosphere, as has been said. Difficult to quantify, but yeah.

Bosses that have nice twists to them and need some thought to beat.

Upgrading weapons to be able to inflict status effects. Admittedly the effects in demon's souls were limited, but it was a nice touch and I think would work well. Nice job on Dark Souls from better differentiating bleed from poison though.

Oh, and a scraping spear-type weapon. HILARIOUS.
 

Simonoly

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They're essentially the same game in so so many ways other than the world structure itself.

Both games offer pretty much the same levels of freedom. Demon's Souls gives you 5 paths to choose from at the beginning, Dark Souls gives you 3. However, if you have the Master key, you have an insane amount of freedom in Dark Souls. My first Dark Souls character was a Thief and because of this one of the first places I ended up exploring was Valley of the Drakes. In fact, I was overwhelmed with the sheer amount of choice I had in comparison to Demon's Souls because of this. Within a few hours of playing the game for the first time I was killed in New Londo Ruins, Valley of the Drakes, Blight Town, The Catacombs, Undead burg, Lower Undead Burg and Dark Root Basin. I'm a curious gamer who will check every door and scan every inch of an area so I was rewarded with a huge amount of freedom.

Personally, I'm more of a fan of the Dark Souls world. Having one twisty, turny world to lose yourself in just felt a lot more organic to me than the segmented approach of Demon's Souls. I'd be happy to have either structure but will always have a preference for one long contiguous expanse. Also, although you had more paths open to you at the beginning of Demon's Souls, progression through those paths were just, if not more linear than anything in Dark Souls (kill boss, activate waystone, progress through new section, kill boss - rinse and repeat). With a few exceptions of course.

I do agree with the OP about the difficulty in Dark Souls being a little off though. I was happy for it to be harder than Demon's Souls in most cases, but the trial and error elements were a little strong in places and in many cases like the Bed of Chaos I found to be of questionable game design. However, certain things like the mimic chests are obviously present for two reasons: 1) to smack down a confident player, who's breezed through Sen's fortress and 2) to create more instances where online community efforts have a greater effect on individual success. When I got to that chest in Sen's I saw a crap load of orange soapstone marks telling me to attack the chest. There were far too many of them to just be a mere troll coincidence, so i hit it with my sword and lo and behold it grew legs and tried to eat me. The Dark Souls community saved me from a gruesome death. Good going guys!

The Dark Souls vs. Demon's Souls debate reminds me much of the Fallout 3 vs. Fallout:NV debate. In the end they're essentially the same game and your preference for one more often than not simply comes down to taste with a generous splash of nostalgia.
 

00slash00

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i dont know what youre talking about. i had to die to learn what was coming in demons souls just as much as i did in dark souls (that is to say, almost never. and when i did, it was only because i wasnt paying enough attention to my surroundings). i agree that dark souls isnt an open world game and i find the world of demons souls to be more interesting, but the combat is just better in dark souls. it felt tighter and more responsive. upgrading should be a hybrid of dark souls and demons souls. in demons souls upgrading felt like such a pain in the ass. i would spend 3 hours farming the same stone and wouldnt get a single one. dark souls made upgrading way too easy. by the end of my first playthrough, i had pretty much every item i ever wanted to use, completely maxed out
 

al4674

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After some searching, I came across a graph that illustrates the path progression in both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls:

http://i.imgur.com/eXT1S.png - This assumes that the player didn't take the Master Key, but honestly, it wouldn't make much of a difference.

As you can see, there does seem to be more linearity to the progress in Dark Souls. I can't get to Anor Londo and all the subsequent areas without ringing the bells, I can't get to numerous areas without getting the Lordvessel etc etc. There are a bunch of objectives that one needs to do to keep unlocking the game.

Sure, Demon's Souls required you to go through 1-1 Boletaria to unlock the game and then get a master Demon's Soul to unlock 1-3 Boletaria, but this is a far cry from the limited progress I can achieve in Dark Souls. Yes, DkS is more connected, but it only becomes so if I keep following a more or less linear progress.

Atmosphere is mostly a subjective issue, but I feel that Demon's Souls had the more foreboding and decrepid areas. All the worlds pretty much had that post-apocalyptic feel, where everyone was either dead, insane or horribly twisted and corrupted. When I was playing Demon's, I often contemplated whether there was even anything left to save.
 

VincentX3

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Jun 30, 2009
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So why we're talking about Demon\Dark Souls, does anyone one know any interesting Demon Souls Let's plays?
I figured I should watch someone else do all the work for once lol

So yea, any recommended Lets players?