I think I've just been sold into slavery.

[Gunner 51]

Big snip

I can sympathise with you, Djinn. I've been through long term unemployment and am have more I.T qualifications than one could shake a stick at.

When you've applied for job after job and after rejection upon rejection in conjunction with being told to lower your sights by the job centre, being saddled with useless agencies and being spat upon by the rest of society - it pulls you into a suicidal depression.

My own story involved me being told to lower my sights twice, once from I.T to admin and again from admin to toilet cleaning. (I kid you not.) I know we can't all be astronauts and get what we want - but the unemployment isn't your fault despite what the rest of society says, the job-seeker doesn't choose if they work or not, it's the employer. If you're one of those kids who don't get picked for team employment - it's because the employer is a cheap bastard who has either hired a migrant or, someone younger or someone female.

It's no longer about what candidate is the best person for the job but who works for less. And this pisses me off to no end - all I wanted to do was work in I.T (and this was when those jobs were plentiful) or if that didn't happen, work in admin. (Because I could do it.)

Agencies are crooked, they don't deserve the money the government gives them. They put you on these crappy unpaid work placements or "volunteer" work posts and the government gives them money on the grounds you're in work. (Even though you and anyone with a brain will find it bloody unbearable.)

To me, unpaid work against your consent is slavery. While it may not be illegal to say no to this, the government has you by the short and curlies. The sad thing is, Britain has a better system than most other counties - if this were the U.S, you and the long-term unemployed would be on the streets.

The only advice I can give you is to persevere and hang in there. You'll find a job - not one you want admittedly - but it will pay. I found one in the end, but I can honestly say it's a bit of a shit one which doesn't play to my admin / I.T strengths. (Toilet unclogger)

It does get better, but not by much. I wish you all the best, Djinn.

 

[JoJo]

If you don't like the way the country is being run, vote out the "rulers" next election in 2015. I wouldn't give high hopes for them or anyone-else being able to solve the problems you've described in your post though, it's a fact of life that we have to work hard to keep our society afloat and that probably won't change, at-least not until someone invents robots who can do the work for us ;-)

Until that day there's no room in our society for free-loaders, people who genuinely can't find any work or are disabled I don't mind getting benefits since I'd rather not having them starving in the gutter but I don't see why hard-working taxpayers should have to pay for people who have been offered a job but turn it down because they're too lazy or it isn't up to their "standard".

...And yet you're just fine with hard working taxpayers paying for failure

you didn't answer any of my questions and guess what, the current government didn't get voted in so that's your "vote for someone else" idea out the window

There's no room in our society for rewarding failure a hundred thousand times as much as surviving money for a down-on-his-luck unemployed person

I want proper answers or else don't bother replying

No systems perfect, a few crooked bankers will always get paid as just the same a few freeloaders will always end up slipping through the net. By-and-large those at the top of our society deserve the money they own, it's just a recent political fad has been to complain about the herp derp rich, fact is that capitalism will always end up with a few super-rich and that's a good thing as it encourages people to work hard. The current government were elected as you vote for the individual MP, not a whole party.

Or, who, like me, have drifted between two goddamn cities trying to find work and been turned down at every opportunity.
And then the JobCentre have the goddamn nerve to try and take my benefits off me. That did not end well for either party, I assure you.

Freeloaders. Pah.

If you look up at my post you quoted, you'll see that I said "people who genuinely can't find any work or are disabled I don't mind getting benefits". You'd come under the first category.

 

[zumbledum]

Hyperbolic title but not too far of the mark.

So I've been unemployed for over a year and the jobcenter have sent me to this outsourced provider who are to aid me in my jobsearch. I went in to the this providers office today and here's what they told me would be happening:

*My rate of attendence was left vague, though my target for number of jobs applied for per week would be 10 or more. Less and I would have my benefits stopped for 6 months.
*They would apply for jobs on my behalf and would not require my consent to do so.
*Many of the jobs they would put me forward for do not require an interview.
*The only reason a job could be turned down is based upon money (i.e. would earn less in the job than claiming benefits).
*Quiting work for any reason disqualifies the jobseeker from further benefit.
*Accepting the above are mandetory to continue claiming benefits.

I asked if this would mean I would be getting a phone call at some point telling me that I was now going to be working for some job I would hate and not be able to hold down. Their responce was that it was in their interest to find me work that I would stay in since the government pays them by the length of time the client stays in work. To that end they would work with me to find something that I would be able to stomach.

Anyway once the papers had all been signed, the woman doing the induction took us for a tour of the faciliies and we stopped of at the job board. There's another worker sat by the board, who ask us what type of work we're looking for. I tell him I'm at universtity studying IT so I'm looking for something in that area, to which the guy practicly spits out his sandwich and scoffs, "you haven't found anything in the last year, what makes you think you're going to find anything now?". I said that that I hoped that coming to this place could help with that and he just snorted and turned to the next guy.

I'm just hoping that this guy is just a prick, but I don't know. I have a feeling that this is going to end badly.

You live in England dont you!

I was fortunate enough to run into this in january my town lucky us was the first area to run it, its the community action program, its a hastily forced through idea as the government is cutting spending by 25% across the board.

its in some ways worse than you are fearing but also better, i get the point it was trying to achieve but the thing is from inception to delivery it got hacked to pieces. i suspect the government is going to end up in the EU court of human rights on this one, they attempted to Enforce a similar program on convicts about 8 years ago and got shredded for that.

You will basically have to spend 30 hours a week at your induction place looking for a job, and we both know that means spending 10 minutes a day going over both of the new options you either don't want or aren't qualified for and the rest of the time reading the chive and this will be as tedious as you are imagining.

The work placements and they probably haven't got around to letting you know this though are highly restricted. basically it has to be with a non profit or a charity , so you can expect to spend your time in a charity shop with probably another member of of the program and a couple of old ladies who volunteer there drinking tea and eating biscuits. which can be tedious or quite good fun depending on where you land.

It was a nice idea, if it got us useful work xp , or a meaning full addition to the cv. but the options are so limited its turned into a totally pointless circle jerk and massive waste of everyone's time.

best of luck , its grim out there right now.

 

[ThatGuy]

Want to know about slavery? Try working 48 hour weeks, year in year out, lose most of the money in tax, to pay for some guy with an overwhelming sense of his own importance to sit around and watch Jeremy Kyle after you subsidized his university education.


Welcome to world of work, the vast majority of people don't like their job, but they do it anyway. Its called taking responsibility for yourself and paying your own way. Why should the rest of the nation pay for your pride. Do you think the binmen love smelling of rubbish or the woman getting up at 6 am to clean toilets has a fulfilling working life? What makes you more important than them? Their taxes have paid for your education and your dole money.

This viewpoint is on target with how most people see the working world, but it's not the right attitude to adopt.

Unquestionably, it's a waste of time and resources to sit around and live off of others' tax money. But that doesn't mean you have to resign yourself to a job you hate for the entirety of your working life.

Bite the bullet and apply for jobs that you feel you're too good for. Swallow your pride. Find something you can stomach. Make sure it's in your field and not TOO low-level for your abilities. Work your ass off in that job, and never stop applying for better positions. Network. Keep learning in whatever spare time you have. Leverage your experience and jump at the next best chance.

The attitude of "I don't like my job, but I do it anyway" is a losing attitude.

 

[FamoFunk]

Hmm, even if you hate the job, you unlike millions of others have been given the chance to work (even if it is for your benefit) get experience and fill up an impressive CV, rather than it being empty from sitting around on your arse all day waiting for the perfect job.


I know and understand jobs are hard to get, which is why you're even more lucky, but it also makes me mad when people refuse to work in McDonald's or ASDA just because they have a degree from uni and think they're better than that. It will takes years to get out of this mess and use your degree in a job you'll love.

 

[CAPTCHA]

I just spoke with my mate who had been handed off to these people. He told me that they placed him a Gunstonnes Factory and made to work 6 days a week. He said that he would often but put on machines with no explanation of how to operate them because no one could speak english. Not knowing how to preform the tasks he was given he was subjected to bullying from his co-workers. He took this up with the manager who then fired him by text message. The Jobcenter then sanctioned his benefits for a fortnight and now he's waiting to hear back from the program.

 

[OneCatch]

I tell him I'm at universtity studying IT so I'm looking for something in that area

If you're at University, how are you claiming jobseekers?

Also, 10 searches every 2 weeks is currently standard for showing that you're 'actively looking for work' - so that's not too unreasonable.
The other stuff I'd be wary of. Jobs without interview all too often means 'Commission only'. If it is, you can legally refuse it though, because you only have to accept work that pays at least minimum wage for 16 hours or more a week. 'Self employed', or 'results dependant', or 'commission only' vacancies don't count.
As for not being able to quit - I'm not sure if this ties into the work scheme that got torn to pieces in the press recently, but that scheme has been cancelled.
Unless your job fits the above criteria in terms of pay and hours, you shouldn't be under any obligation.
If you actually quit a legitimate job though, they can cut you off for 6 months.

On the bright side, they might find you something decent, or at least bearable - just try not to be too fussy, especially if you haven't had any other luck.
It'll pay more than jobseekers anyway, and you can keep looking for better work if you aren't satisfied.

 

[ElPatron]

After reading this thread I feel sick. I'll try not to get too political.
A relative of mine had a similar situation, but she only had to apply to at least one job every week.

I'm currently trying to claim disability benefits...

I've seen 4 different goverment "health specialists" who have all classed me as being "disabled" in some way, yet after 2 years I'm still filling in the same forms and having to make daily phone calls to chase up my claim.

Bureaucrats!

 

[Spongebobdickpants]

Hyperbolic title but not too far of the mark.

So I've been unemployed for over a year and the jobcenter have sent me to this outsourced provider who are to aid me in my jobsearch. I went in to the this providers office today and here's what they told me would be happening:

*My rate of attendence was left vague, though my target for number of jobs applied for per week would be 10 or more. Less and I would have my benefits stopped for 6 months.
*They would apply for jobs on my behalf and would not require my consent to do so.
*Many of the jobs they would put me forward for do not require an interview.
*The only reason a job could be turned down is based upon money (i.e. would earn less in the job than claiming benefits).
*Quiting work for any reason disqualifies the jobseeker from further benefit.
*Accepting the above are mandetory to continue claiming benefits.

I asked if this would mean I would be getting a phone call at some point telling me that I was now going to be working for some job I would hate and not be able to hold down. Their responce was that it was in their interest to find me work that I would stay in since the government pays them by the length of time the client stays in work. To that end they would work with me to find something that I would be able to stomach.

Anyway once the papers had all been signed, the woman doing the induction took us for a tour of the faciliies and we stopped of at the job board. There's another worker sat by the board, who ask us what type of work we're looking for. I tell him I'm at universtity studying IT so I'm looking for something in that area, to which the guy practicly spits out his sandwich and scoffs, "you haven't found anything in the last year, what makes you think you're going to find anything now?". I said that that I hoped that coming to this place could help with that and he just snorted and turned to the next guy.

I'm just hoping that this guy is just a prick, but I don't know. I have a feeling that this is going to end badly.

But, but, but, you are clearly a feckless amoral crook who is too work shy for your own good. The one thing soviet russia did right was that they made everyone work.

OT: I remember them saying they would introduce laws like this and i didn't think it would turn out well at all. Good to know im right

 

[albear]

I see no problem with your op, youve been out of work for over a year and claiming benefits, so now the government is forcing you not to be a leech on society (wether or not you were lazy or actually looking is irrelevant because thats what you were) so the government actually getting you work rather than you yourself looking is great and you can start contributing in some way rather than sitting back saying 'i dont like any of those jobs, but i dont have any money give me some'.

 

[Bertylicious]

I work in HR so perhaps I have a useful perspective on all this.

Firstly to the OP: you mentioned that you left school early due to health problems which implies your CV looks like you've drifted from job to job with long periods of unemployment and a smattering of qualifications. That is not appealing to an employer, indeed it is something of a red flag.

No employer is going to look at you until you've got a period of stable employment to prove that you have a work ethic. A lot of people on this thread have dissed McDonalds but they have been top of the Investors in People awards for over a decade. They're actually a fantastic company; thanks partly to their help a friend of mine who started working for them as a teenager is now a legal professional who earns big money.

Now to everyone else: working is good for you. Sitting on your arse collecting benefits is destroying you. What do succesful university graduates do? Take work placements with companies for little or no pay. They then build up contacts and real world experience.

As for all the belly-aching about the governemt; bare in mind that there is no money.

No money. None. Nada. Zilch.

We've blown our collective wad on 2 wars and massive government borrowing. Furthermore you've got to consider past experience; when the mines were shut down during the 70s, many long term unemployed were just dumped on long term disability and forgotton about. I refer back to my earlier point: sitting on your arse and collecting benefit is bad for you. It makes you look bad to employers.

Third and final point: You may ask me why so many young people find it so difficult to get jobs. Recent legislation has effectively abolished compulsory retirement and, as someone else correctly observed, thanks to quantitative easing and other measures pensions no longer go as far as they used to which means that when people would normally retire they remain in employment.

In conclusion; you've got to take responsibility for your own life and consider yourself from the perspective of an employer. If you're struggling to find work than fucking well make yourself more employable. Take a shitty job and stick at it whilst still doing relevant qualifications to prove you aren't a lazy sack of shit. Make friends with people in the industry you do want to eventually work in and find out what they did to get where they are.
Always remember that real life isn't like The Escapist forums; you've got to earn respect, not just be given it by default.

 

[Bertylicious]

I agree with the above and can i just point out there are no were near enough jobs out there i applyed for and shelf stacker in tesscos i just want a job and 500 other people applyed for it but i have been in higher education so i shouldnt have to! But i did and paid even more of my dues so now i have a nice job but whats the point of people going into higher ed if you end up working in a basic job and the only way you can get a better job is experence not what degrees you have.

Suprisingly I'm not insensitive to this sentiment as I think sending so many people to university is a waste of time. I would say, however, that studying will prove you're good at academia, it won't neccesarily prove that you're a good worker so doing something to prove your worth is quite useful.

 

[Madgamer13]

Greets to the Escapist! This is my first post, I think.

To tell a story, I had finished my secondary education with only one GCSE C grade which made me unemployable in my local area. I completed my schooling 11 years ago and I had only one recourse; to work with local colleges and the benefit system.

It was bleak at first, since no employer would take someone without their basic english and math GCSEs, I got lost in the dispair for the effort and return of my secondary schooling, I put so much in for so little and I knew it was going to get worse. I was wrong on this count.

After being relegated to a basic IT skills class in my local college, I noticed this new fangled 'Jobskills' system, a precursor to the more modern find-work-by-working system that they now have in place, which some would call a form of slavery.

The relationships I had built wasting a year in my college allowed me to feel the refreshing depression of seeing all my friends proceed to the next level, things that prepared them for university, that sort of thing. Before long I was left alone, with only those who knew me umong the tutors. I would eventually decide to take advantage of the jobskills system with the the connections I had to certain individuals within the college, people who had links to the benefits office.

I used this advantage to secure 6 month contracts, then took them to the college to provide them subsidy for me to work there, I was given a role in their IT department as a technician and my four year stint would begin. In those four years I would gather experience I could never have got otherwise and the benefits office would leave me alone, since I was doing more than grumbling about lack of work, when I was opening opportunity after opportunity by constantly getting my college money for taking me on. Me, who is a lowly underachiever and waste of time.

I was never paid a wage in those four years, as it should be, I would work fourty hour weeks for basic jobseeker benefits, carting computers around between campus and assisting those who are my betters to learn the ropes of their position and back them up when the yearly prototyping of computer systems came.

Unfortunately for me, it was at the end of those four years that my marital home would collapse, leaving me out of home, so I would find myself in emergency shelter. The emergency shelter would cost more than I could get from the Benefit system, so I used the experience I had gathered in those five years since leaving school to find myself real work; I would then work in an outsource call center.

The pay was amazing, an actual wage for my work, I was estatic! I couldn't beleive that I didn't have to hunt for deals in the local tesco anymore and I could buy more than two sets of clothing. To make it even better, I could rent a suit to attend my workplace! It was bliss.

One thing I had learned though, was to protect yourself from agreements that you agreed to before you agreed to and when my call center tried to make me agree to a contract of which I had not agreed to, even though the page said I did, I resigned. My resignation was marked with the burly maniliness of the security guard, which escorted me out of the building like a criminal. I do admit a tinge of pride, I was flanked by security as I walked through the floor, the looks of awe from the tear striken faces of my former colleages was definately odd, as how prideful I was to be flanked by burly men with a forever-frown on their unforgiving faces, I was standing between them, when those I would work with bowed their heads.

Then I would work in a university untill my mind collapsed on itself. I now spend my time isolated from society and attending conferences and discussions about therapy and counselling in the UK, such interesting conversations I have too, I even wreaked a keynote speech by mistake by asking a question of a professor that they couldn't answer. Psh.

As such, to stay on topic, those on benefits have no right to complain, because they may as well have no more rights than their closest peer. Similarly, anyone paying for the system through taxes have no more right to complain either, since you have no more control over the taxes you pay concerning benefits as those on benefits have no more control over their own lives.

 

[Bertylicious]

After reading this thread I feel sick. I'll try not to get too political.
A relative of mine had a similar situation, but she only had to apply to at least one job every week.

I'm currently trying to claim disability benefits...

I've seen 4 different goverment "health specialists" who have all classed me as being "disabled" in some way, yet after 2 years I'm still filling in the same forms and having to make daily phone calls to chase up my claim.

Bureaucrats!

Oh yeah, the one thing I didn't cover in my original response was the diabled. If I may be blunt, employers do not want to have to employ people who can only work so many hours a week, have lots of time off sick or need to have special arrangements to work.

I don't see how it is possible for people who've been claiming benefits all their lives and also have special needs in the workplace to effectively compete with the able bodied jobless. I can appreciate the idea in principle though. Plenty of people who become disabled during their working life are fantastic employees who are very committed to their work and easy to retain.

 

[Bertylicious]

snip

*Applauds*

 

[Rastien]

I just spoke with my mate who had been handed off to these people. He told me that they placed him a Gunstonnes Factory and made to work 6 days a week. He said that he would often but put on machines with no explanation of how to operate them because no one could speak english. Not knowing how to preform the tasks he was given he was subjected to bullying from his co-workers. He took this up with the manager who then fired him by text message. The Jobcenter then sanctioned his benefits for a fortnight and now he's waiting to hear back from the program.

The goverment is a fucking joke for implmenting this scheme its just taking advantage of people like yourself for the benefit of private companys, whilst taking away your money for conditions out your hands. That aside...

Not sure what part of the UK your from, and you have probably already tried this but... find out all the small IT companys in your area. Right up a CV for them quoting shizzle off their website etc. and offer to do volounteer work to get some experience. Experience is the key part in the IT industry with the exception of CCNA and MCSE.

The place where im working we recently had a guy with a computer science degree join (whos on the same wage as those without and alot less than those who have been here longer) but alot of us are self taught and currently working towards the qualifications mentioned above.

Its a tough to find work with something you enjoy, but if you have any example of forum managment,website construction or managment, setting up voip servers or clients (vent,raid call etc. all count) and ANY form of mail client usage outlook and the like always come in handy.

But yeah get some volounteer experience work udner your belt if possible, even worth asking friends and family if they need any kind of help. Most will have "slow internet" or a "slow pc" which is easily remedied by a good ms config tweak and unisntalling the 15 toolbars they have on the web browser.

Keep your chin up dude alot of people are in your position if you want any more advise or help PM me.

 

[Frostbyte666]

Sometimes you've just got to accept a crap job and do it while looking for better work. This crap job can be dull, bad hours etc. but at least you have work and when going to interviews for better jobs you can say you're working rather than surviving on benefits. 1st job I had after uni was packing contact lenses at a distribution center. That was fun...and if asked you had to turn up on a weekend no but's. However it got money coming in and eventually managed to get my preferred job as an engineer.

 

[Shivarage]

Sadly two wrongs don't make a right. You can either suckle at the government tit or you can take responsibility for yourself and work. Just because there are wealthy people doing wrong things doesn't mean you should be able to do the same. That kind of logic leaves everyone lying around with cradle to grave dependence on the nanny state.

Is it wrong that there are banks and and massive companies getting bailed out? Sure it is. However, to think "the poor" don't get theirs too is just being intellectually dishonest. The unemployed in the US get well over a year's worth of unemployment benefit. Not too long ago it was pushing two years. That's a government bail out. Don't get me started on welfare and food stamps and the rampant fraud that plagues both of those programs.

The problem now is that both rich and poor want to stay on the government payroll now while pointing at each other and screaming about how the other side needs to take a cut in their government benefits. Maybe everyone just needs to focus on their own matters and stop worrying about other people so much.

Yes, the rich are certainly setting a good example, these people are supposed to be the "most intelligent, responsible and talented" yet all we see is failure, two wrongs don't make a right but the first wrong was by the rich as they are the example at the top.

How on earth did the poor cause the world economy to crash??? I didn't realise it was them who were issuing the bad loans and gambling stupid amounts of money on the stock market, I also didn't realize it was them who get paid millions for failure!

Let's hope you don't lose your job, you might have to actually face the implications of your words.