I WANNA KILL CHILDREN!

[the December King]

I wouldn't have put it that way myself, but if I'm playing the role of a medieval reaver or a viking invader, and some kid just marches up to me and says I'm an idiot or look stupid, then murdering the child might be more in character than not, you know? I mean what child does that, in a brutal world full of monsters, vampires and legions of bandits? I mean we're able to kill ( and/or be killed ) by all sorts of other mobs, from dogs to butterflies. Children, heck all NPCs, should act with a certain ammount of fear or at least caution.

In Skyrim I was standing in a small town as a dragon struck, and I was envelloped in the flames and killed, all the while with a child standing in front of me, also awash in fire, blathering on about nonsense.

 

[Stu35]

What child would go up to a warrior with skulls on his armor and be all like "I can take you, you fat piece of nothing!"?

I've been to Afghanistan.

In fact, fuck it - I was a child when I was younger, so I can tell you from BOTH sides of the spectrum:

It's amazing how cocky children are when they know you're not allowed to fuck with them.



In a world where you're surrounded by brutality, the 'fear' you'd expect from a small, fragile person (like a child) simply doesn't exist as it should - Children are basically fearless to begin with, they learn fear the hard way, and if they DON'T then they get ever more bold.

So, yeah, based on that I can see why the children of Skyrim are such irritating little shits.

They are incredibly poorly written though.


As for WHY they make children unkillable... Because you know the second they don't is the second that FOX News (or in Britain, the Daily Mail), puts out an article pointing out how video games encourages child-killing monsters.

 

[teebeeohh]

Why must the children make me wanna kill them?!

Maybe this reflects more about gamer mentality than an endemic flaw in the games?

Maybe. On the other hand, causing a feeling of annoyance in some random dude truly warrants a virtual death sentence, even under juvenile law, so...

I mean, sure, you can talk about immersion and consistency, but to go on a rant about how annoying kids deserve to be raped and enslaved and such and add the headline "I WANNA KILL CHILDREN" to all of that... that's probably a thread I wanna stay out of.

Edit: I knew it reminded me of something: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/9246-What-Is-the-Matter-with-You-People

this is also the escapist, where a lot of people frequently tell that the mere existence of children in real life is so terrible and the threat of them potentially being noisy is so detrimental to their well-being so much they would prefer we stuff them into to pods until some asshole on the internet decides they are worthy of joining society.

 

[LaughingAtlas]

I found the stupid little shits of Fallout 3 vexing enough to go for the Child Killer mod (I think that was the name, at least) to make some, mostly Ryan Wilkes, that entitled little marathon runner, shut their obnoxious I'm-a-kid-so-listen-to-me-whine-and-do-what-I-say faces.

More coherantly: Did not want to do Those! quest, did not care for child's nagging, did not actually manage to end the quest by setting the runt on fire.
I still haven't gotten around to test-firing my way through Little Lamplight yet, hasn't really come up.

In Skyrim, I've had almost no interaction with children. There are the ones that say something when you walk by in Whiterun, (couldn't tell you a single specific line) the kid who starts the Dark Brotherhood questline and the ones in the related orphanage I've never hung around after killing the old lady, and the little girl who, as far as I know, exists only as a voice asking about 'Uncle Rogvir' the first time you walk into Solitude. Other than them, I couldn't even tell you whether or not there are children in Skyrim.
Maybe because nothing like this happened in Skyrim: I was dressed in full raider gear because my decent armor was broken, standing over a super mutant with a sledgehammer trying to get his head to burst into glistening red chunks for amusement. I was at half health, so likely soaked in blood, and hyped up on Psycho and Jet because I wanted to emulate a modern, post-apocalyptic berserker mindset, and about a second after skull fragments meet cracked pavement, a kid pops up babbling about monsters after him, acting surprised and extra whiny when I make it clear I don't give a damn.
Am I supposed to feel bad for not wanting to be the Heroic Savior of Everything? in every playthrough?

 

[Savagezion]

BUT

Why must the children make me wanna kill them?!

In Fallout 3 (LOOK OUT, SPOILERS!), you have this underground city called little lamplight or something, run by some son of a ***** called McDickhead, a 12-year old just swearing and being an unsufferable prick, and the rest of the population are also kids just as annoying as McShouldbeshoot. Your character was probably in good enough shape to FTUBAR with just a baseballbat the second he/she stepped out of the vault, but they still talk down to you like you ain't shit!

And Skyrim (OH NO, MORE SPOILERS!).. the first fuckin' village after the dragon attack, there's some blond shitstain telling you "Oh, this is my village, stay out of my way, *****!", and somewhere later in the game there's another blond little bastard spurting out that you can't be the dragonborn, 'cause you look weak as hell. I'M THE FUCKING DRAGONBORN, THE JESUS OF YOUR WORLD, WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION ME YOU SON OF A CHEAP, ARGONIAN WHORE?!

LOL, while reading this I got the image of real life kids on CoD. Making you want their parent to walk in the room and smack em over the mic.

All in all, they are annoying, the break immersion (all the kids in little lamplight would've been raped and taken for slaves in any realistic setting. And I'm okey with that, the obviuosly deserves such a fate) and for the most part doesn't serve any point in the game other than making it a bit more "realistic", I guess. Because you do have to wonder what's up with a world were there aren't any children.

Now, I propose three solutions to this problem:

1. Okey, keep the annoying kids, but let them pay the consequense for being annoying kids. Make 'em mortal ;C

2. Take all the annoying kids to the dirtiest and cheapest romanian orphanage you can find and leave all the kids that aren't annoying in the game. While you're still at the dirty romanian orphanage, adopt some of the good kids and let them move into your game. I'm sure they will appreciate it =D

3. Let us at least smack the bastards so that they fall to their knees and cry, and then never bother you again. Yeah, the media would probably flip about this more, but then again the mere mention of sex in games make them flip so.. fuck it.

Now come forth and praise my insane ramblings, so I can feel a bit better about myself!

That said, I agree totally. Kids in games used to be fun to find. They would play hide and seek with you or something. They would usually offer something interesting in RPGs at least like a neat little sidequest or just some funny dialogue. Some were just polite children and boring but sometimes they were cool. They still can be. Costume Quest is fun, but it is also child focused. Most mature RPGs make em mouthy though. Especially, Bethesda.

 

[Movitz]

I mean, sure, you can talk about immersion and consistency, but to go on a rant about how annoying kids deserve to be raped and enslaved and such and add the headline "I WANNA KILL CHILDREN" to all of that... that's probably a thread I wanna stay out of.

Yet you didn't. Instead you clicked the thread, read it, kinda missed the point, focused soly on what upset you and wrote a reply.

Go you.

 

[Movitz]

It's sort of interesting how bugs like that, which lead to amusing antics and/or give us some sort of advantage, will get fixed immediately, but major bugs that disadvantage us will take 2+ weeks to fix....

Reputation is everything, I guess. For most players, bugs comes with the territory. In many game developers eyes, I suppose a game described by the media as a "child-killing simulator" is something they most likely would like to avoid.

I guess if we all collectivelly started bitching about any bugs at the release of a game, things would change. Remember, whining made a new ending for ME3 =D Kinda.. sorta.. not really.

 

[Movitz]

I've been to Afghanistan.

Respect. My brother was down there a tour. Hope your trip was peaceful.

While I guess you may have a point about kids and brutality, in these cases it just came out as irritating. And I don't wanna be irritated by a game I'm playing, because that kinda defeats the point in playing it.

 

[Risingblade]

I wouldn't mind being able to give them five across the eyes in those games. Killing them is going a bit to far though.

 

[Movitz]

Also make sme wonder why don't they take over the world.

They asked mommy, but she didn't allow it =(

 

[Weaver]

I will say that the little lamplight bastard totally has it coming.
The devs obviously wrote him to be the most annoying character possible as they knew you couldn't kill him.

Besides that one instance, I've never wanted to shoot a child in a game.

 

[scorptatious]

I remember in the original Fallout, there were kids in some towns that would pickpocket from you. One time I caught one doing it, and in retaliation blew that brat to pieces with a combat shotgun. Interestingly, after that I was branded a "child killer" and most people were rude to me, if they would talk to me at all. Later on, I started being stalked by bands of bounty hunters looking to kill the "child killer". I thought it was a pretty interesting dynamic of the game to alter the NPC's perception of you like that. Now, that was in the USA version of the game. Kids were censored out of the European version IIRC.

Was that only in earlier versions of the games? I bought both 1 and 2 via GOG and played them both a few times and they never pick pocketed me. Either I'm really lucky or that must have been patched out.

 

[Malkav]

In Skyrim and Fallout 3, they should have implemented a system where kids respond to your skill level, your armor and reputation. If you look like a random loser mercenary, they can be respectless, because they know you're a random nobody who can't afford doing anything about them. Once you walk around in Daedric armor, they could be fearful or admire you, based on your reputation. What flips people off might just be how these brats ruin immersion. You slowly become that badass superhero that can wipe the city no problem, but they still treat you like a beggar who just arrived. As games often do, you only get two options to deal with this: Shut up and take people's shit, or rip their spines out and burn whoever has a problem with it. So it's frustrating you're left without choice here, since murdering their parents won't shut them up.


Frankly, I'm not happy with either of them. Even if I roleplayed an asshole, killing children because I'm an insecure bastard who can't take a pre-school insult, that's just not working. I don't like empty cities either. God knows Nazeem drives me insane, but I'm not playing some petty loser who needs to kill half the planet because they happened to mildly annoy me. I sympathize with anyone who killed Nazeem, I'm just saying I'd like a less extreme, more immersive option. Like... burning his house down or something. I tried.

Rockstar knew with GTA V that people want to play a psychopath who ticks off if you look at him funny, so they gave us Trevor. So why can't these games have more creative, less extreme, but still somewhat psychotic ways to deal with these problems? Let me give them a good scare, headbutt their dads in front of them, kick them or throw parts of my last victim at them, burn their toys... whatever. Or as said before, don't give me a problem in the first place if you won't let me solve it. Or, make it so "solving a problem" doesn't mean killing, if killing is suddenly too immoral for you.

 

[Something Amyss]

No. Have you actually played Fallout 3 or Skyrim?

Yup. I own the complete set of DLC for Fallout 3 (though I haven't finished it all) and own Skyrim twice.

Because if the answer to that question was "yes", you wouldn't be asking us if it's an 'endemic flaw'.

I REALLY hope this is facetious, but....

Actually, yes. If your first response is "this is annoying WHY CAN'T I KILL IT" it might reflect more on you than on the game. It's as rational to blame the game as it is to pull a "no true Scotsman" argument claiming I couldnt play the game because if I did I would automatically agree with you.

No one should live a life where they don't want to beat those kids into submission, dag nabbit!

I hope to hell you're being facetious, but I can't assume that because this is the boilerplate reaction.

[
Maybe. On the other hand, causing a feeling of annoyance in some random dude truly warrants a virtual death sentence, even under juvenile law, so...

You have a point. It is a normal and healthy reaction to want to kill people who annoy you.

I mean, sure, you can talk about immersion and consistency, but to go on a rant about how annoying kids deserve to be raped and enslaved and such and add the headline "I WANNA KILL CHILDREN" to all of that... that's probably a thread I wanna stay out of.

I doubt anyone playing these games wants actual immersion. That's like demanding realism in Saints Row.

Edit: I knew it reminded me of something: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/9246-What-Is-the-Matter-with-You-People

And I still believe his points are complete valid.

 

[Exhuminator]

Was that only in earlier versions of the games? I bought both 1 and 2 via GOG and played them both a few times and they never pick pocketed me. Either I'm really lucky or that must have been patched out.

I played Fallout off of a 1997 disc, unpatched, it was a long time ago. I'm sure the GOG version has the final patch, and probably has pickpocketing kids turned off.

 

[Erttheking]

I feel like when this topic comes up, people are way too freaking quick to start throwing insults at each other. So I'll just say this and make my leave. Doesn't really bother me, but then again I'm the type of person who only likes killing civilians in GTA where they're a dime a dozen, in games like Fallout I just can't bring myself to do it unless I know I'm not going to save. As such, not really running out for a child killer mod.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Whether children should be killable or not is up to the developer. The only people that bug me are the players who say "it is wrong to kill a virtual child".
It isn't. It isn't any worse to kill a virtual child as to kill a virtual woman as to kill a virtual man. I haven't bothered to install killable children mods in any of my Bethesda games but I would if I cared more.
The people who say it is wrong are the same people who use the excuse "but think of the children" to censor otherwise legal material for adults.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

While the problem is more that children in games are for whatever reason the most annoying pretentious little fucks you've ever seen, even were they not, it really ruins the experience when you try to slaughter a whole town and you end up with a pile of dead bodies, 2 'plot-required' NPCs and 5 children running around impervious.

 

[Unsilenced]

I honestly think they get some sort of sick thrill out of it. Taking the only NPCs you can't kill/that you would feel morally reprehensible for killing and making them the most killable sacks of shit they could possibly write. There's no other explanation that makes sense in my mind. Every single kid in Skyrim is an insufferable little snot. Even the generic guards have more diversity of personality than the walking wads of pure, stabbable spite that are the children. Then, in a game full of monsters, slavers, murderers, and genocidal dictators, the one person who's face most requires a shotgun shell is utterly immune to the effects of acute lead poisoning. Not even the Enclave, the murderingest bunch of murderers on the murdery side of murdertown can touch them, apparently just kind of strolling peacefully through their town without a fight on their way to plot-conveniently ambush you.

They get off on it, I'm telling you. They know we want to kill them, and they know we look bad for it too. They know how terrible it looks that "kill children" is just after female nudity in the most downloaded mods. They know you grind your teeth every time you burn an entire village to the ground, only to hear some smarmy shit tell you how they don't think you're all that tough. Somewhere a bunch of writers are highfiving each other every time that little cretin spits out another, "Oh look. Another adventurer here to lick my father's boots." It's the only logical explanation.



I mean, that or gross incompetence and mind-boggling laziness, but come on. That'd be ridiculous.

 

[sageoftruth]

I remember in the original Fallout, there were kids in some towns that would pickpocket from you. One time I caught one doing it, and in retaliation blew that brat to pieces with a combat shotgun. Interestingly, after that I was branded a "child killer" and most people were rude to me, if they would talk to me at all. Later on, I started being stalked by bands of bounty hunters looking to kill the "child killer". I thought it was a pretty interesting dynamic of the game to alter the NPC's perception of you like that. Now, that was in the USA version of the game. Kids were censored out of the European version IIRC.

I heard you can still get pick-pocketed by the nonexistent children in the European version. Sucks considering even quest-sensitive items aren't safe from their greedy little hands.