"If a game can't stand on single player alone, it's a bad game." Really?

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Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Single player will always rule over multi for me because multliplayer games don't stand the test of time , in a few years or less its dead and all your left with is a very short game

the single player experience is the core of gaming especially if you want to consider it an artform
 

Vohn_exel

Residential Idiot
Oct 24, 2008
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I think what Yahtzee was saying is that if a game is set to have it's own singleplayer story, it needs to be done right. Otherwise, it might as well be a MP only title, and then they could've worked on it more. I think thats what he meants. Also, it should be pointed out that Yahtzee is an entertainer first and a game critic second.
 

Squilookle

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Nov 6, 2008
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By singleplayer, we don't always mean the campaign. Usually it just means content that can be played by anyone, alone.






When you buy a game, you expect to be able to access and enjoy every part of it. In no way is this an unreasonable expectation. You don't buy books expecting a chapter to be missing, or a film for the same reason. Singleplayer campaigns can and are able to be experienced by anyone who owns the game. Preventing someone from accessing arena instant action because

a) they only have one controller
b)do not have a reliable internet connection
c)haven't the disposable income or time to devote to online subcription services
d)have nobody who wants to play that particular game with them
e)or all of the above

is simply not good enough an excuse. It may sound overly dramatic, but this is discrimination, plain and simple. These poor bastards even had to pay the same price for this half-product.

I'm a huge fan of multiplayer, and one of my all time favourites is the original Unreal Tournament, probably the first successful game to be sold just on multiplayer. It had everything; deathmatch, team deathmatch, assault, capture the flag... it was a veritable powerhouse of varied multiplayer gaming. But there's something very important that modern shooters just don't understand, that UT knew all too well- the importance of bots.

You see, no matter how varied the maps, weapons (and later on, the vehicles), the bots could always go toe to toe with players and could make effective use of anything the player could use, too. This is what is key to UT's brilliance: every single game mode, map, weapon and powerup could be used by, alongside, and against the player by the AI- preserving every aspect of gameplay for players that play alone

In this way, a game can have no story based singleplayer and still work well. Look at Mario Kart or Mashed. Great multiplayer gameplay, zero story, and yet compelling for solo gamers because there is AI to carry it over (unless you want battle mode, in which case substitute Mario Kart for Diddy Kong Racing). For games doing it the other way around, only those playing online get all the content. Everyone else is left out in the cold.

And speaking of getting left out in the cold, think about this: There will always be a finite number of players, and hours in the day. With more and more games competing for online multiplayer time, chances are that over time, a game you particularly like will have fewer and fewer people playing it, and soon the multiplayer will dry up completely. If you see games as disposable distractions until the next big thing to spend your cash on -as the publishers no doubt want you to think- then this isn't a problem.

But for games that stand the test of time, Multiplayer will be wasted unless it can be played alone as well. Look at Tribes 2. For all the fans it still has, most have resigned themselves to never being able to have a big match ever again- it was online only and just doesn't have the support it once did. Bots and challenges give a game an infinite lifespan. Nobody wants to play Goldeneye multiplayer because they're too busy with COD and Starcraft 2, which is perfectly fine, but I don't mind because my Perfect Dark bots are ready to fight, whenever and however I choose to. I for one will still be playing PD multiplayer long after many samey multiplayer only shooters have come and gone.

And look at Deus Ex. It actually had a multiplayer, but nobody remembers that. The thing that brings you back to a good game many years on is not the multiplayer, but the singleplayer. Like a good movie, if the singleplayer of a game is good enough, people can and will want to reinstall it and play it again every so often. This never happens with multiplayer except for the abolute peak popular ones, namely Counter Strike 1.6. But sending off a game without bots just hoping it will be the next counter strike is incredibly naive. there is NO excuse not to have multiplayer AI capable of all the game modes and weapons/vehicles as the player.
 

gl1koz3

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May 24, 2010
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Sorry, but Quake 3 had quite good bots balanced for... pretty much every player experience level, starting with a newcomer and some beyond that, even up to uber-hardcore. I could just jump in and have some fun. If I beat the bots, I could go online. Same can apply to some other games, but it depends. L4D has terrible bots, for example. Nothing short of idiots. But that is because the game relies on horde mechanics, which can be hard to process for them. MW4 was enjoyable (for some time). Also because of the single player. UT3 has nice bots. C&C has cut-scene cheese all over its campaign.

Wait, what are we discussing, again?

EDIT: So, yes. "If a game can't stand on single player alone, it's a bad game." Because otherwise it is social interaction. A game, too. But very different kind.

EDIT2: As for the BF examples. Take BF2 or 1942. A newcomer can go and have some fun. And NOT cringe at the dumbness of the campaign in BC2, for example.

EDIT3: Games SHOULD have a taste of the game be possible without the online stuff. Otherwise it gets wobbly as to what you're actually paying for - gameplay or... social interaction? You can get the latter for free.
 

The Wykydtron

"Emotions are very important!"
Sep 23, 2010
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Basically games should aim for EPIC single player or EPIC multiplayer not ok single player and ok multiplayer.

BFBC2 for example could have not included the single player and focused solely on the multiplayer and i'm pretty sure noone would care

If a dev team feels they can handle both then fine but i expect both of them to be good.
 

ultimateownage

This name was cool in 2008.
Feb 11, 2009
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Anything can be fun when played with friends. What he means is that if the multiplayer is fun because you play it with friends that doesn't mean that it the gameplay and mechanics are necessarily good.
 

asinann

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Apr 28, 2008
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Yes, if a game can't stand as a single player game, it is BAD. The only games that should be allowed to stand on multi-player only are games that are ONLY multi-player.
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
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Im with Yahtzee on this one. Multiplayer is fun, but videogames are still predominately played solo. Plus if you are gonna use Multiplayer as a crutch just leave the singleplayer out. Like Warhawk or MAG. OR be an MMO <.< (though in most cases thats just an ONLINE Single Player lol)

The fact they still have a SP campaign means they still want the solo crowds money :p and sir i think thats just greedy and it makes your game look like an after thought. Thus suckier than it should have been.

GOTY 2010 were RDR and ME2 both Single player games through and through. (one with a multiplayer for added value)
 

Owyn_Merrilin

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May 22, 2010
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gl1koz3 said:
Sorry, but Quake 3 had quite good bots balanced for... pretty much every player experience level, starting with a newcomer and some beyond that, even up to uber-hardcore. I could just jump in and have some fun. If I beat the bots, I could go online. Same can apply to some other games, but it depends. L4D has terrible bots, for example. Nothing short of idiots. But that is because the game relies on horde mechanics, which can be hard to process for them. MW4 was enjoyable (for some time). Also because of the single player. UT3 has nice bots. C&C has cut-scene cheese all over its campaign.

Wait, what are we discussing, again?

EDIT: So, yes. "If a game can't stand on single player alone, it's a bad game." Because otherwise it is social interaction. A game, too. But very different kind.

EDIT2: As for the BF examples. Take BF2 or 1942. A newcomer can go and have some fun. And NOT cringe at the dumbness of the campaign in BC2, for example.

EDIT3: Games SHOULD have a taste of the game be possible without the online stuff. Otherwise it gets wobbly as to what you're actually paying for - gameplay or... social interaction? You can get the latter for free.
That's an interesting standpoint. I wouldn't say that it's social interaction that makes online worth it so much as the ever changing nature of an online game. No matter how smart you make your AI, it's not going to match the challenge of a human opponent, or even act like one in most cases. Social interaction can be a part of it, but for the most part it's about bite sized sections of play time which are never exactly the same twice.

ultimateownage said:
Anything can be fun when played with friends. What he means is that if the multiplayer is fun because you play it with friends that doesn't mean that it the gameplay and mechanics are necessarily good.
That's assuming you actually play with friends. I don't know how it works on the Xbox, but PC gamers generally spend little to no time playing with people they know in real life.
 

Squilookle

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Nov 6, 2008
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meece said:
The earlier battlefield games didn't even *bother* with a singleplayer campaign. The closest is being able to play on the small versions of some maps with dumb bots.
Wrong.

That was BF2, and it's horribly crippled attempt at a singleplayer. Both 1942 and Vietnam before it allowed the full maps at your fingertips all the time, and allowed a full server's worth of players in singleplayer (that's a whopping 64, baby!). Only the occasional vehicle was absent in singleplayer (like the Vespa and U-Boat)
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Jul 18, 2009
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If a game has a story driven singleplayer campaign, then HELL YEAH it needs to be able to stand alone on that.
 

Beryl77

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Mar 26, 2010
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If a game like Mass Effect has multiplayer, then I want it to be able to stand on singleplayer only, otherwise I would be really dissapointed because it's a game that I really enjoy because of the story, characters, etc.
On the other hand, I'm still playing cs and bf2 and these two games don't need a singleplayer to be good.
So I agree with you, there are certain games where the multiplayer is much more important than the singleplyer but there are also games where the singleplayer has to be good or the game will suck.
 

mr_pants66

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Oct 7, 2009
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this is half true, it does not make it a bad game is just reflects poorly on the game itself, it can still be a "good game" <- Australians will see what i did there
 

[.redacted]

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Jan 24, 2010
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Charades would be rubbish single player, and that's a globally played game without any real demographic. (Although I actually don't like it...)
 

KuwaSanjuro

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Dec 22, 2010
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I think the only games that can be exempt from not having a good single player game are a game that has been designed to be played online and thus online only. TF2 was made to be an online game so that is what it is good at but a game that has a single player should not rely on its multi player to warrant it being a good game.
 

Xaio30

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Nov 24, 2010
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I feel like it would take more skill to create a memorable SP-mode than a MP one.
 

V8 Ninja

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May 15, 2010
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Yep. The inherent problem with playing multiplayer is that it's bound to be more interesting and fun because humans are unpredictable.
 

blalien

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Jul 3, 2009
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The thing about multi-player games is that they live or die by their community. You can have the most perfect game ever, beta tested by Jesus himself, and have it ruined by little anti-social fuckers. You cannot have a game whose value depends on the quality of the people playing it, because you can't control who buys your game. A game with a good single-player mode at least has insurance that some part of it will be playable.

Now obviously, there are games where it doesn't make sense to have a single-player mode, but in general a good single-player mode gives some assurance of quality gameplay that multi-player can't promise.
 

Admiral Stukov

I spill my drink!
Jul 1, 2009
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If it have a single player campaign, it should be able to stand on SP alone yes.
If the devs don't put enough effort into making said campaign, it would be better to remove it entierly.

Just throwing together a quick uninspired campaign, or a crappy multiplayer mode they just have to "re-do, do right", anything else is just bad for everyone.