If being transexual is so dangerous, why would anybody go in for that lifestyle?

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Man OP, you sound like a really cool and interesting person with tons of really solid, valid experience with life and people. I'm having a party this weekend, would you like to come?

 

[Drathnoxis]

Man OP, you sound like a really cool and interesting person with tons of really solid, valid experience with life and people.

It's always nice to meet someone who understands by brilliance.

I'm having a party this weekend, would you like to come?

Ok, but only if I don't have to pay for the beer. And also, if this isn't one of those parties where I walk in and someone shouts "Get him!" and then I wake up covered in bruises and duct taped to the wall. Those ones aren't fun.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I spent my whole life in hiding. Being afraid of what people would do to me if they found out. My stepdad once told me he would kill me if I turned out to be trans, which is what really did it.

Tried to ignore it for years. Couldn't do it, I was in pain the entire time. I took the risk and let people know. Now I'm on hormones and I feel SO much better, even though that's the most I've done so far. (I'm only about 3 months in)

I can't speak for everyone of course but for me, not going in for it, was impossible. It's easy to say "just ignore it" when you aren't trans yourself, but for those of us who are, we just can't do it.

Forgive my ignorance, but if it's the hormones that make a trans person feel better, wouldn't it be possible to take the hormones without publicly acting out of societal norms for your birth sex? Because I find it hard to believe that trans people are being persecuted for taking hormone treatments.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I spent my whole life in hiding. Being afraid of what people would do to me if they found out. My stepdad once told me he would kill me if I turned out to be trans, which is what really did it.

Tried to ignore it for years. Couldn't do it, I was in pain the entire time. I took the risk and let people know. Now I'm on hormones and I feel SO much better, even though that's the most I've done so far. (I'm only about 3 months in)

I can't speak for everyone of course but for me, not going in for it, was impossible. It's easy to say "just ignore it" when you aren't trans yourself, but for those of us who are, we just can't do it.

Forgive my ignorance, but if it's the hormones that make a trans person feel better, wouldn't it be possible to take the hormones without publicly acting out of societal norms for your birth sex? Because I find it hard to believe that trans people are being persecuted for taking hormone treatments.

Going on female hormones makes males grow breasts, and act differently than the would without it, and it's much the same for the way they change females physically, when they go on male hormones. Remember that if you're blocking your birth sex hormones, or go with a method that stops, or drastically reduces their production, then go on hormones for the opposite sex, that's gonna cause physiological changes.

 

[Nieroshai]

Don't teach people that persecution is bad, teach "abnormals" to stuff themselves in a closet.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I spent my whole life in hiding. Being afraid of what people would do to me if they found out. My stepdad once told me he would kill me if I turned out to be trans, which is what really did it.

Tried to ignore it for years. Couldn't do it, I was in pain the entire time. I took the risk and let people know. Now I'm on hormones and I feel SO much better, even though that's the most I've done so far. (I'm only about 3 months in)

I can't speak for everyone of course but for me, not going in for it, was impossible. It's easy to say "just ignore it" when you aren't trans yourself, but for those of us who are, we just can't do it.

Forgive my ignorance, but if it's the hormones that make a trans person feel better, wouldn't it be possible to take the hormones without publicly acting out of societal norms for your birth sex? Because I find it hard to believe that trans people are being persecuted for taking hormone treatments.

Going on female hormones makes males grow breasts, and act differently than the would without it, and it's much the same for the way they change females physically, when they go on male hormones. Remember that if you're blocking your birth sex hormones, or go with a method that stops, or drastically reduces their production, then go on hormones for the opposite sex, that's gonna cause physiological changes.

I've seen lot's of guys with breasts, and a tensor bandage would help hide them. Is the change really so drastic that it would be... hmm, how do I say it. Wouldn't a male to female still look quite a bit more like a male than a female, due to bone structure and all?

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I've seen lot's of guys with breasts, and a tensor bandage would help hide them. Is the change really so drastic that it would be... hmm, how do I say it. Wouldn't a male to female still look quite a bit more like a male than a female, due to bone structure and all?

Moobs are a far cry from actual breasts and I know enough FtMs to know that binding ones breasts is rather uncomfortable, not to mention that; it makes it hard to breathe. You'd be surprised how easily even seriously masculine guys can pass for female, it's not that hard, if you know how to do it that is. Not all women look the same, neither do all men, there are plenty of masculine looking women, feminine looking men, which means that with the right effort, almost anyone can potentially pass for the opposite sex.

Besides, hiding the gender expression that feels most natural to you as a transgender person can make any moves toward transition feel pointless. Being on hormones is part of moving towards a point where you can be yourself, not so you can hide in the closet.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I've seen lot's of guys with breasts, and a tensor bandage would help hide them. Is the change really so drastic that it would be... hmm, how do I say it. Wouldn't a male to female still look quite a bit more like a male than a female, due to bone structure and all?

Moobs are a far cry from actual breasts and I know enough FtMs to know that binding ones breasts is rather uncomfortable, not to mention that; it makes it hard to breathe. You'd be surprised how easily even seriously masculine guys can pass for female, it's not that hard, if you know how to do it that is. Not all women look the same, neither do all men, there are plenty of masculine looking women, feminine looking men, which means that with the right effort, almost anyone can potentially pass for the opposite sex.

Besides, hiding the gender expression that feels most natural to you as a transgender person can make any moves toward transition feel pointless. Being on hormones is part of moving towards a point where you can be yourself, not so you can hide in the closet.

Well, I just don't get it. If I was in a pair of trans shoes, I'd want to find a solution that would let me blend into the crowd as much as possible. It just seems to me that the trans 'lifestyle'* paints a big target on your back for all the random Jonny-transhaters to come and give you crap. It seems to me like the best way to avoid persecution would be to do as little as possible to draw that persecution. I mean, if dressing the opposite of your birth sex and going into the other washroom is going to make people get all angry and want to do mean things, then it seems like the easiest solution would be to not do that. Same with the casual sex people keep talking about that gets people killed. People can talk about what's right all they like, but what's right is a long way off from what's safe.

*Honestly, I have no idea if I'm supposed to call trans a lifestyle or a condition, because it seems like it's treated with aspects of both.

 

[NerAnima]

I've seen lot's of guys with breasts, and a tensor bandage would help hide them. Is the change really so drastic that it would be... hmm, how do I say it. Wouldn't a male to female still look quite a bit more like a male than a female, due to bone structure and all?

Moobs are a far cry from actual breasts and I know enough FtMs to know that binding ones breasts is rather uncomfortable, not to mention that; it makes it hard to breathe. You'd be surprised how easily even seriously masculine guys can pass for female, it's not that hard, if you know how to do it that is. Not all women look the same, neither do all men, there are plenty of masculine looking women, feminine looking men, which means that with the right effort, almost anyone can potentially pass for the opposite sex.

Besides, hiding the gender expression that feels most natural to you as a transgender person can make any moves toward transition feel pointless. Being on hormones is part of moving towards a point where you can be yourself, not so you can hide in the closet.

Well, I just don't get it. If I was in a pair of trans shoes...

You're not, but that's beside the point.

I'd want to find a solution that would let me blend into the crowd as much as possible. It just seems to me that the trans 'lifestyle'* paints a big target on your back for all the random Jonny-transhaters to come and give you crap. It seems to me like the best way to avoid persecution would be to do as little as possible to draw that persecution.

For some people that isn't an option, they don't want to hide from the world, they want to be able to live in it. It's the same reason some people aren't willing to keep their sexual preference buried, they don't want to hide it, and for some, they want others to know, just to rub it in the face of all those who say that they shouldn't be gay, or shouldn't be transgender.

I mean, if dressing the opposite of your birth sex and going into the other washroom is going to make people get all angry and want to do mean things, then it seems like the easiest solution would be to not do that. Same with the casual sex people keep talking about that gets people killed. People can talk about what's right all they like, but what's right is a long way off from what's safe.

What is right is that transgender people be allowed to live without fearing for their lives, just like it's right for gay people, or black people, or women. None of those were safe, hell, some of them still aren't; but that's why people want to change that, and they think the best way to start is to be open about it. Whether they're right or not isn't up to someone like me to decide.

*Honestly, I have no idea if I'm supposed to call trans a lifestyle or a condition, because it seems like it's treated with aspects of both.

Best not to ask me, I'm just a penguin; or maybe a broomstick; or a Tim Curry style transvestite. Take your pick.

Edit: If none of this made any sense, I blame it on the Canadian maple syrup and whiskey.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

This is a lot like "have you tried not being gay?"

I don't know if I actually count as Trans, I don't want to say I am and undermine the shit Trans people go though. Personally I tend to say I'd be fine as either and ideally could switch between the two with ease but it is a bit more complicated than that. But I haven't told anybody outside of the internet about my gender identity and I don't know if I ever will. I'm terrified of how people will react. I know people (like my Dad) who make jokes where the punchline is trans people exist, har, har and my reaction is something like this.

Spoiler

Then there's my brother who questions why I sometimes play as a female character in games where you can make your own character or frequently change my sex in Saints Row cause I'm totally a manly, man, man, right? So why would I do that? It's almost like I don't think my sex plays an important part in defining who I am. I also get shit for my hair being too long "because boys don't have long hair." My hair isn't even that long but I hate having short hair. I also hate having facial hair. I have my hair how it is because I like it, not because other people approve of it. And I like dressing in Gender-Neutral clothing so that's not going to change and I while I like 'they' I don't mind being referred to as 'he' (or 'she', but that never happens.) So I just might never tell anyone because I'm terrified of how they'll react and how they'll treat me. And it's such a minor thing and I have lots to lose by telling people and pretty much nothing to gain. Still I fucking hate keeping it secret, it should be a complete non-issue but I know it isn't.

I'm not sure how applicable my experiences are to other people but there you go.

 

[chuckman1]

Eh I prefer protecting an oppressed minority and having people not attack them over telling "freaks" to "get in the closet".

Trans lives matter.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

This is a lot like "have you tried not being gay?"

I don't know if I actually count as Trans, I don't want to say I am and undermine the shit Trans people go though. Personally I tend to say I'd be fine as either and ideally could switch between the two with ease but it is a bit more complicated than that. But I haven't told anybody outside of the internet about my gender identity and I don't know if I ever will. I'm terrified of how people will react. I know people (like my Dad) who make jokes where the punchline is trans people exist, har, har and my reaction is something like this.

Spoiler

Then there's my brother who questions why I sometimes play as a female character in games where you can make your own character or frequently change my sex in Saints Row cause I'm totally a manly, man, man, right? So why would I do that? It's almost like I don't think my sex plays an important part in defining who I am. I also get shit for my hair being too long "because boys don't have long hair." My hair isn't even that long but I hate having short hair. I also hate having facial hair. I have my hair how it is because I like it, not because other people approve of it. And I like dressing in Gender-Neutral clothing so that's not going to change and I while I like 'they' I don't mind being referred to as 'he' (or 'she', but that never happens.) So I just might never tell anyone because I'm terrified of how they'll react and how they'll treat me. And it's such a minor thing and I have lots to lose by telling people and pretty much nothing to gain. Still I fucking hate keeping it secret, it should be a complete non-issue but I know it isn't.

I'm not sure how applicable my experiences are to other people but there you go.

I'd say you classify as either gender queer, or gender fluid, which you could make a case either way for that being transgender. I personally feel that it does fall under the transgender umbrella.

Also you're going through what a lot of trans people in the closet go through.

 

[Silence]

snip

Welcome to the club. I would probably also be defined as genderqueer or -fluid if I gave a shit about labels.

I let my hair grow a long time ago. I then cheated my way out of questions when I began to listen to metal.

I play female characters most of the time. 10 years ago, playing WoW, there were the same questions as your brother asks. I actually answered them with some kind of "Why would I want to play male? The female form is more aesthetically pleasing".

As for secrets: Everyone has them. I actually don't mind them as long as my own state of mind doesn't bother me about it. Seeing how fast progress is these days, maybe it will not be an issue one day.

?: As for the OP. Don't go too hard on him. Most people are completely ignorant about trans issues (why I want to have this taught at school, would be a good start). If someone asks questions, answer them, even if they sound more hostile than they should.
Hell, I didn't even know about hormone blockers in puberty until a few months ago.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I do want to state that the term cisgender is FUCKING STUPID, when you want a term to describe at least 95% of the human race the better word is normal. It's like me adding goy to every non jewish character.

To be fair calling people with standard gender identities "normal" is rather exclusionary of trans people. It means that being trans excludes you from being a normal person period. Cisgender as a term is useful for separating trans from non-trans in a way that doesn't seem judgemental.

 

[Dizchu]

The reason transgender people are open about being transgender is mostly the existential idea of authenticity. Being honest with yourself and presenting yourself honestly might reduce the amount of tolerance you'll get, but it'll also mean that those that love you and the love you feel for yourself is just more genuine. It's often not an issue for people who are widely accepted (so, your average straight cisgender people).

And I an tell you for a fact that it's worth it. Whether or not I express my divergence from gender norms will not change the fact that I have gender dysphoria, I have a deep dissatisfaction with my body that goes beyond "I weigh a bit too much/too little" and "I wish my hair was less frizzy" (and it upsets me that gender reassignment surgery is often equated with gastric bands, breast implants, botox etc.) It was in my best interests to just present myself more honestly (though it's not something I do 100% of the time). It's resulted in me being far more attractive, maybe because I simply look a lot better in my androgynous form or maybe because people find honesty to be an attractive trait. I also feel better about myself. Sure, I have to lay low in public and that sucks but it's preferable to not knowing what love feels like (from myself and from my girlfriend).

I do want to state that the term cisgender is FUCKING STUPID, when you want a term to describe at least 95% of the human race the better word is normal.

Ehhh, that's like saying we should replace "able-bodied" with "normal" or "20/20 vision" with "normal vision". I'll agree that being transgender isn't the "ideal" and having a gender identity that doesn't align with your biological sex isn't "normal" in the sense that it causes a whole bunch of problems and is generally seen as a problem to be fixed (which is why hormone therapy and reassignment surgery exist), but...

The terms "cisgender" and "transgender" refer to people. You can't judge what makes a person as an individual "normal" or not. "Cisgender" is just the antonym to "transgender", like "straight" is to "gay". It doesn't belong in conversations that don't involve gender identity, but it's a real thing that's written about in academia.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I do want to state that the term cisgender is FUCKING STUPID, when you want a term to describe at least 95% of the human race the better word is normal. It's like me adding goy to every non jewish character.

Normal doesn't refer to gender, though. If I say someone is "normal", I might mean they are of average height, straight, dressed the same as everyone else, doesn't use a wheelchair, cisgender or any number of other things.

If I say cisgender, then it's clear that I'm talking about gender.

 

[Silvanus]

Yes, being trans is not being normal, normal is the average and being trans is not, there is nothing wrong with not being normal but you can't preach on your difference but still want to be categorized as a norm of the group.

In the community cisgender is an okay term, outside the community it sounds like a degaratory term which does not help in the slightest with transexuals fitting in.

The latter argument you make (about the term 'cisgender') refers to the connotations of the word. That's precisely the same thing to keep in mind about the words 'normal' and 'abnormal'-- they carry connotations, too. 'Abnormal' usually carries fairly strong negative connotations, which is one reason they're better left behind when we're talking about demographics.