If I hear "Just doing my bit for the environment" one more time then I'm going to flip.
- Thread starter WlknCntrdiction
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It's less likely than you think... [http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080620-north-pole.html]WlknCntrdiction said:
@ Break. Why did you feel it necessary to call me a dumbass?
Or any of us dumbasses?
Passion is passion but you're typing here. You have plenty time to cool down and remain civil in the argument.
There's no need to address any of us that way for simply stating an opinion and presenting some facts.
I know it gets heated and I've wanted to call people some stuff, but like I said, we're typing, I can relax and go have a smoke or do whatever and come back with something much better than an insult, and much more respectful to my fellow posters.
Or any of us dumbasses?
Passion is passion but you're typing here. You have plenty time to cool down and remain civil in the argument.
There's no need to address any of us that way for simply stating an opinion and presenting some facts.
I know it gets heated and I've wanted to call people some stuff, but like I said, we're typing, I can relax and go have a smoke or do whatever and come back with something much better than an insult, and much more respectful to my fellow posters.
Break. There is no room for name calling here...this is not gametrailers... My family does earnestly recycle, and I take part in that. I just don't think that what I do has any kind of significance whatsoever. That doesn't make me a dumbass.
I don't worry about the environment. The planet does not need saving.
No matter what we do to her, Terra will sort herself out. She's been doing it for billions of years. I feel like this whole 'being green' idea is just another example of humanity's collosal arrogance and over-inflated sense of self-importance. So climate change is out of control, and CO2 levels in the atmosphere are higher than they've ever been, and Humanity may be facing extiction, so what? Most of the stuff that has ever been alive, is dead. Life is CONSTANTLY facing extinction from innumerable sources, Sol could sudenly send out an enormous flare and simply burn away our atmosphere, we could be struck by an enormous chunk of extraterrestrial faeces, or any number of other devastating natural occurances.
The only difference with the global warming issue is that Humanity has caused the changes and therefore, due to an outdated, unnecessary and unscientific code of morals imposed upon us by (non-specific) religious dogma, Humanity feels responsible. But here is some news: Terra's environment is always changing, and eventualy it will disappear altogether as our itty bitty blue rock moves out of the narrow habitable band of space that we currently ocupy, and we end up like the martians. Dead.
I feel we have two options at this point, we can continue to feeling guilty about a process that began before any of us were even an erection, some of us will try to recycle and 'do our bit'. Multi-national-super-conglomerates will continue to polute, pillage and pulverise the landscape in the name of profit. Some will continue not to care, be it through apathy or ignorance, and eventually the planet will get angry and simply swat Humanity out of existence.
OR...
We look at what we have done to this planet, learn from it, realise that Homo Sapiens is a single entity that behaves like a virus, accept that, embrace it, and set out on the great adventure to INFECT THE GALAXY.................
Having said all that, it still pisses me of when I find beer cans in the woods.
No matter what we do to her, Terra will sort herself out. She's been doing it for billions of years. I feel like this whole 'being green' idea is just another example of humanity's collosal arrogance and over-inflated sense of self-importance. So climate change is out of control, and CO2 levels in the atmosphere are higher than they've ever been, and Humanity may be facing extiction, so what? Most of the stuff that has ever been alive, is dead. Life is CONSTANTLY facing extinction from innumerable sources, Sol could sudenly send out an enormous flare and simply burn away our atmosphere, we could be struck by an enormous chunk of extraterrestrial faeces, or any number of other devastating natural occurances.
The only difference with the global warming issue is that Humanity has caused the changes and therefore, due to an outdated, unnecessary and unscientific code of morals imposed upon us by (non-specific) religious dogma, Humanity feels responsible. But here is some news: Terra's environment is always changing, and eventualy it will disappear altogether as our itty bitty blue rock moves out of the narrow habitable band of space that we currently ocupy, and we end up like the martians. Dead.
I feel we have two options at this point, we can continue to feeling guilty about a process that began before any of us were even an erection, some of us will try to recycle and 'do our bit'. Multi-national-super-conglomerates will continue to polute, pillage and pulverise the landscape in the name of profit. Some will continue not to care, be it through apathy or ignorance, and eventually the planet will get angry and simply swat Humanity out of existence.
OR...
We look at what we have done to this planet, learn from it, realise that Homo Sapiens is a single entity that behaves like a virus, accept that, embrace it, and set out on the great adventure to INFECT THE GALAXY.................
Having said all that, it still pisses me of when I find beer cans in the woods.
Christ, I got crazy all of a sudden. Call it hormones or something. Apologies to people for being such a nutcase. Although, the "Break, take a break" thing was pretty funny.
Right, on to the actual point of this post:
As for recycling, yes, it may be that it's often more efficient to just harvest some trees than to recycle paper, but fairly often the point of recycling is to make better use of waste materials than just burying it in a garbage dump, or burning it. It might be a touch superfluous when it comes to stuff like paper and wood, but we don't have infinite oil to make plastics with, and, as you say, it's simply better in general when it comes to certain metals.
Although, I would be interested in finding out how long it takes for the benefits of turning off a lightbulb to outweigh the benefits of leaving it on. Time for a little research...
Before that, tho', comes having to repeat LV 64 Klutz. Large companies will use less resources, create less greenhouse gasses, and rape the planet less in general, if enough average people start to be "greener". The logic that "large companies are a bigger issue, so I can't really do anything" kinda falls apart when the people who buy into that logic are the reason the large companies are causing such a problem in the first place.
Also, Whitto, I imagine it's less a misguided sense of responsibility and overfed egos, than desperately trying to save our own skin.
Now, I'm off to go edit my crazyness in a hopeless attempt to dodge a ban~
Right, on to the actual point of this post:
As for recycling, yes, it may be that it's often more efficient to just harvest some trees than to recycle paper, but fairly often the point of recycling is to make better use of waste materials than just burying it in a garbage dump, or burning it. It might be a touch superfluous when it comes to stuff like paper and wood, but we don't have infinite oil to make plastics with, and, as you say, it's simply better in general when it comes to certain metals.
Although, I would be interested in finding out how long it takes for the benefits of turning off a lightbulb to outweigh the benefits of leaving it on. Time for a little research...
Before that, tho', comes having to repeat LV 64 Klutz. Large companies will use less resources, create less greenhouse gasses, and rape the planet less in general, if enough average people start to be "greener". The logic that "large companies are a bigger issue, so I can't really do anything" kinda falls apart when the people who buy into that logic are the reason the large companies are causing such a problem in the first place.
Also, Whitto, I imagine it's less a misguided sense of responsibility and overfed egos, than desperately trying to save our own skin.
Now, I'm off to go edit my crazyness in a hopeless attempt to dodge a ban~
Except that we're not, are we? You and me will be dead when the realy bad stuff hits. When that happens it will kill many of us, but I say let them die! Natural selection has nearly 7 billion of us to play with, the strong the crafty and the lucky ones will survive to form a new civilisation of cockroach munching nutters...Break said:
"My god... It'll be beautiful..."
(10 points and Watumbi cake for guessing the character)
S'ok man, we all get like it at times.Break said:
Msch, bless her soul, pointed out earlier how a company bulldozed a mountain to get to some resources; I'm sure she could find the post, but my search-fu is lacking.
Now, against that, any recycling I do is useless; and they're actually responding against me. Exxon, Dupont and a number of other BIG name companies have poisoned not just the world but their own workers.
Well, this is from TIME magazine:
One of the biggest problems in trying to investigate this fully is that their is a LOT of Anti-Capitalist mnemonics & memes in there; along with the Green Propeganda. And the average person can quite easily get fooled into thinking everything is THEIR fault.
Here's a good rundown on the effects of 'Earth Hour' though.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/earth_hour_crashes_to_earth/
And this gives you facts to look at
http://catchwa.org/2008/03/was-earth-hour-a-joke-again/
The problem with plastics is that they are now so ubiquitous that simply deleting them wouldn't help.
Let's take your local Walmart/Tesco's.
You have 30 minutes to get your sunday roast home from the point at which you take it out of the fridge.
Now, everyone of those is out of town, so you've probably travelled here by bus/car.
And there's likely to be a queue.
And you're likely to forget something.
BUT you can't use plastic bags.
That means there's nothing keeping the uncooked meat away from all the fats, sugar and cooked meats that can absorb that defrosting poison.
You want to re-use it? Re-wash it and that's more resources gone.
Something as simple as animal blood has to be dealt with. Like the War of the World Martians, we're just as vulnerable if we suddenly decide to throw out the plastics.
I have no doubt that global warming is real. I have no doubt that it is a major threat to the world as we know it, and will probably reshape the face of the world and global society as we know it before the end of the century.
However, people who think that by buying a Prius, investing in "carbon credits" and not using plastic bags will somehow not only stop but reverse a major global event are out of their minds. I understand why they do it. They honestly think they are doing their part, and it also happens to be the hip thing to do right now and not terribly inconvenient for them. What they do matters almost nothing. Few Americans I think would be willing to accept the measures we would have to take if we hope to make the slightest nudge against global warming. The drastic shift in American lifestyle and consumption I think is beyond most Americans. Telling someone they have to stop driving or tell a family of 3 that it's not ecologically sensitive for them to live in a 3000 sq ft home, or that they have stop eating beef and consuming so much of everything is out of the question. These are only a few of the measures the average American would have to make, never mind the enormous changes industry would have to make.
Lets face it, we as Americans are reactionary. When 9/11 happened we all donated blood and money and so on, but few people donate blood anymore. When hurricane Katrina hit, everyone donated money and blankets, but 3 years later, few people care about whats going on in New Orleans. When it gets to the point that Manhattan is underwater, then maybe then we'll make major changes. Untill then we'll just do the fashionable thing of "being green." That's my 2 cents.
However, people who think that by buying a Prius, investing in "carbon credits" and not using plastic bags will somehow not only stop but reverse a major global event are out of their minds. I understand why they do it. They honestly think they are doing their part, and it also happens to be the hip thing to do right now and not terribly inconvenient for them. What they do matters almost nothing. Few Americans I think would be willing to accept the measures we would have to take if we hope to make the slightest nudge against global warming. The drastic shift in American lifestyle and consumption I think is beyond most Americans. Telling someone they have to stop driving or tell a family of 3 that it's not ecologically sensitive for them to live in a 3000 sq ft home, or that they have stop eating beef and consuming so much of everything is out of the question. These are only a few of the measures the average American would have to make, never mind the enormous changes industry would have to make.
Lets face it, we as Americans are reactionary. When 9/11 happened we all donated blood and money and so on, but few people donate blood anymore. When hurricane Katrina hit, everyone donated money and blankets, but 3 years later, few people care about whats going on in New Orleans. When it gets to the point that Manhattan is underwater, then maybe then we'll make major changes. Untill then we'll just do the fashionable thing of "being green." That's my 2 cents.
They arn't doing it for the enviorment.
They are doing it so they can continue to live in the enviorment.
No matter how badly humans fuck up the enviorment the enviorment will survive. It's the things in the enviorment (humans and other large land animals) that wont survive.
Even if we had a nuclear war that destroied all humans there would still be bacteria.
And don't forget about the animals deep down in the ocean.
No matter what we do the Earth will still be hear billions of years from now and more than likly there will still be life on it. Wether it is related to humans or not.
They are doing it so they can continue to live in the enviorment.
No matter how badly humans fuck up the enviorment the enviorment will survive. It's the things in the enviorment (humans and other large land animals) that wont survive.
Even if we had a nuclear war that destroied all humans there would still be bacteria.
And don't forget about the animals deep down in the ocean.
No matter what we do the Earth will still be hear billions of years from now and more than likly there will still be life on it. Wether it is related to humans or not.
Wrong! Recycling anything uses less energy than making a new one.vdgmprgrmr said:
Plastic- making a new one reguires getting all the right materials which includes stuff from trees, so you have to cut them down. Recycling one means melting down old ones and reforming them.
The only bad thing about recycled plastic is that once you use it for some sort of food container (ex. soda bottles) when you recycle it you can never use it as a food container ever again (because of some sort of chemical thing about it)
But everything else you can reuse as a food container again.
Wrong!The_root_of_all_evil said:
Watch Mythbusters. It's the same with saying that leaving your lights on all the time is better because the start up surge is so high.
The only way you save money by keeping the lights on when you leave a room is if you are out for less than .3 of a second (with a regular incandecent bulb. Other kinds of bulbs are even less time)