If I sneak into Disneyland, is it theft?

[scottxxxx667]

A friend and I were in a debate about Piracy (oh no, not another thread about this) when a thought occurred to me that I had never considered before. I conceded to his point that Piracy is not theft in the traditional sense (one person loses while another gains), but it is the theft of an experience. Hence waged a battle of semantics and word definitions.

My argument was that with stealing something like a car the value is in the product, however a DVD containing a video game is essentially worthless. The value of a video game resides solely in an intangible experience and therefore most comparisons between piracy and theft are too different to compare fairly. The direct comparison that I came up with a sneaking into a theme park, like Disneyland or Dreamworld, where no one directly loses money but one person gets free entertainment.

I'd rather not turn this into too much of a Piracy debate (there are too many of those) but rather a debate of semantics. I propose two questions:
1- Is it theft to sneak into a theme park? If no, what word should we ascribe to it?
2- Is the video game == theme park comparison fair? If so, should we use whichever word is chosen from question 1 to describe Piracy?

 

[Legion]

I'd have thought it'd come under 'unlawful entry' onto private property.

 

[Klumpfot]

The word for that would probably be unlawful entry. Also, I would say that the comparison is not entirely fair, because you have to put in a lot more effort to climb a fence than to go to certain websites. That makes total sense.

 

[tahrey]

It's whatever you would also call, e.g. riding a train or a bus for free...
The vehicle still has to be powered and maintained, and the driver paid - the same goes for the theme park rides.

If all you do is wander round and soak up the atmos, maybe even buy an overpriced hot dog, you're probably ok. But anything after that is... not quite theft but definitely more than piracy, as you're both taking up someone else's seat / space in line, and causing wear & tear / energy use which the company won't be compensated for.

I'm sure there's a word for it but damn if I can remember!

 

[cjbos81]

1. It's trespassing.

2. Not completely. A video game can have unlimited copies made. The better comparison would be like having someone perform labor but not paying them. Sometimes called theft of service. It's like enslaving someone to make you a video game.

 

[Zannah]

The theme-park still isn't fair, since you could still, in theory, block a spot in like a rollercoaster or something for a legitimate customer.

The best I can come up with, is to think of piracy as someone copying masterpieces that hang in a museum, and giving them away for free. And then the louvre comes, and sues that guy for stealing the mona lisa fifty thousand times.

 

[KeyMaster45]

That's a pretty good analogy and makes alot of sense to me. When you get right down to it paying for a game is paying for the entertainment it provides; ergo the experience. The end product is entertainment, the same thing which a theme park like Disneyland provides.

In both cases, whether it be illegal downloads or sneaking into a theme park, you're stealing a product. If you get caught sneaking into theme parks, you'll probably just be kicked out or charged with trespassing. With an illegal download you run the risk of being sued for more money than you actually have and jail time.

Which brings me to the difference between the two. When you sneak into a theme park you are the sole benefactor of the crime. Sneaking in does not allow for thousands more to come behind you and do the same. An illegal download, on the other hand, not only are you stealing the product but at the same time facilitating thousands more people more people to do the same.

In short, while both are essentially selling you an experience (be it a good or bad one), however, one does not facilitate other people in stealing said product.(hence the punishment disparities between the two)

 

[hyperdrachen]

It's called trespassing, you we're not permitted to enter the grounds. From a more ethical standpoint you are costing paying customers longer waits in line, assuming you ride rides. Any use of the rest rooms, anytime you sit on a bench you are taxing limited, or cost/maintanence that you have not paid for the use of. It's not equivilant to software piracy but it is a closer analogue than traditional theft.

 

[Nuckelavee]

The best I can come up with, is to think of piracy as someone copying masterpieces that hang in a museum, and giving them away for free. And then the louvre comes, and sues that guy for stealing the mona lisa fifty thousand times.

You took the words straight out of my mouth, blast and damn good Dame.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Now, if you got in without paying and got your hand stamped to go back in, you deserve to be put in the stocks in Frontiereland so Goody can flog you while Mickey and Minnie just sort of watch and get off on your suffering.

Your avatar makes that quote a thousand times more disturbing, for some reason I'd fully expect to hear the hacker from Goldeneye say that.

Yeah, maybe a better comparison than the theme park would be an uncrowded cinema, as you wouldn't be negatively affecting anyone else by being there, but you are still experiencing something which you should pay for, and even if you would never have paid to see the film, you still do not have the right to experience it for free.

 

[Choppaduel]

Its not stealing, its just trespassing. Both illegal.

 

[Isla]

It is theft to sneak into a theme park. It's the admission fee from the parks that go towards staff wages, fixing up rides, food and other expenses. So effectively if you were to sneak into say Disneyland you'd be stealing away some of Mickey Mouses wages. Stealing from a loveable character is wrong.
Shame. For shame.

 

[Trolldor]

The best example for piracy is thus:

I write a book.
It cost me a lot of time and effort and a great chunk of my personal finances to support getting this book published.
I get a fraction of the sale cost, maybe some 30 percent. It may sell well, it may not.

And then somebody copies the entire thing word for word and offers it for free, and all these people take this free copy of my book and get delusions of self-entitlement when I ask they kidnly respect my work and actually pay for it.

 

[Regiment]

1) It is.
2) It's an excellent analogy.

This is the problem with a lot of arguments against piracy: people say, rather rightly, that it's not technically stealing in the sense of actually depriving someone of an actual thing, and then they take a massive leap to conclusions and say that it must be all right then.

 

[chunkeymonke]

imagine if you spent months or even years o your life working on something just to have someone steal a copy of it. that would make you mad don't lie, every day people buy stuff it's capitalism get over it. YOU ARE STEALING it's not the worst crime but you are still doing it. You are taking other peoples work and not paying the required price

 

[Zechnophobe]

Value is a construct, so too therefore is price.

 

[Trolldor]

Value is a construct, so too therefore is price.

So is... every social or behaviour judgement. Ever.

 

[playinthedark]

Hey now wait a minute... don't you know that all generalizations are false??