If I sneak into Disneyland, is it theft?

[9-liner]

Piracy and theft are both defined as "the act of [you know the rest]".

Act of.

Piracy, like theft, is 'method'. The 'how'. In a discussion of what belongs to who and the taking of what from who without permission from other, "piracy" and "theft" hold the same weight as the words "pilot", "steer", or "guide" would in a discussion of driving a car around a course.

At the end of the day, what does Disneyland or game-production-company-A, or you for that matter, own exactly? And if they or you own [thing], at what point is [thing] considered being taken away from whoever by whoever else, with / without permission (whatever that is)?

 

[z3rostr1fe]

Well, when most people come to realize that games have no real value in their current form (because they have been told as much by game companies) then the industry will crash.

Uhh, can we assume that it has "Entertainment Value"?

Entertainment value doesn't equal $$$. For example, are you willing to pay for a game each time you play it or just once? I know that if I restart Twilight Princess, I won't have to pay for it again but I will still be entertained.

So again, entertainment value doesn't equal $$$.

Hmm... Then your argument also applies to other forms of entertainment(Movies, Music, etc.). Based on what you were saying, the industry tries to equate software to physical objects so that the people would assume that software actually holds some sort of value. Now I understand it now, thanks to a mathematical equation: 1 legal copy of software / infinite available copies of the software = 0(still thinking what the zero value signifies, but I believe that if you multiply the whole equation to the value of that software, then it will mean that the software holds no value, which makes your statement true. Just correct me if I am wrong... >.>).

 

[Lizmichi]

Well there are two laws your breaking by sneaking into Disneyland and that would be trespassing and theft of services meaning you use the services of the park but you don't pay for them. It's like having a locksmith open your car and you don't pay for it. So yes it is very illegal and is theft so don't do it. As for not losing money they do, the admission helps pay for up keep of the park and the wages of the thousands of employees. Besides even if they didn't lose anything you're still taking a service you didn't pay for.

Theft of service is defined by state laws, which vary by state, but typically define the crime as knowingly securing the performance of a service by deception or threat, diverting another's services to the actor's own benefit, or holding personal property beyond the expiration of rental period without consent of the owner. Intent to avoid payment may be presumed under certain circumstances, such as failure to pay for an applicable rental charge within 10 days after receiving written notice demanding payment.

 

[squid5580]

That's a pretty good analogy and makes alot of sense to me. When you get right down to it paying for a game is paying for the entertainment it provides; ergo the experience. The end product is entertainment, the same thing which a theme park like Disneyland provides.

In both cases, whether it be illegal downloads or sneaking into a theme park, you're stealing a product. If you get caught sneaking into theme parks, you'll probably just be kicked out or charged with trespassing. With an illegal download you run the risk of being sued for more money than you actually have and jail time.

Which brings me to the difference between the two. When you sneak into a theme park you are the sole benefactor of the crime. Sneaking in does not allow for thousands more to come behind you and do the same. An illegal download, on the other hand, not only are you stealing the product but at the same time facilitating thousands more people more people to do the same.

In short, while both are essentially selling you an experience (be it a good or bad one), however, one does not facilitate other people in stealing said product.(hence the punishment disparities between the two)

I think I can help you. If I cut a hole in the fence that allows everyone who wants to get into the park for free then it would be more akin to piracy.

 

[ace_of_something]

First off I'm a professional thief catcher.

Yes it is theft. At best you'd get charged with trespassing at worst you'd get a crime called THEFT OF SERVICES. Teenagers get the charge 'theft of services' all the time while sneaking into movie theaters or when people don't pay bills for services (Like a taxi ride). Theft of services has varying degrees of severity. It has to be established how much the service is usually charged at. The prosecution produces documents or proof of what the service typically costs, in your example a ticket into Disney land, and weather you are charged with a misdemeanor or a felony depends on the dollar amount limits set by your state. Typically services valued at more than $500 tends to be a felony.

Your argument is effective in proving that you're doing a DIFFERENT kind of theft than what most people compare piracy to.

- Your friendly neighborhood escapist cop.

edit: you would get different charges as well depending on how you broke in, B&E or an additional chage of 'theft by deception' if you used a forged ticket our something.

My argument was that with stealing something like a car the value is in the product, however a DVD containing a video game is essentially worthless. The value of a video game resides solely in an intangible experience and therefore most comparisons between piracy and theft are too different to compare fairly. The direct comparison that I came up with a sneaking into a theme park, like Disneyland or Dreamworld, where no one directly loses money but one person gets free entertainment.

 

[Irishhoodlum]

On a bit of a tangent, i have a question. Hypothetically what if i download a game illegally. One that i would normally never even think of trying but coz it's free i think 'Why the hell not...free is always a good price'. I play it for a few weeks but then go out and buy a retail copy of said game because it's on sail for half price. The developers/distributors/store still get there money in the end so is there anything wrong with this?

OT
You have not payed to get into the park so it's trespass on privet property not theft. Yes i think it is an good analogy.

The vast majority of games have free demos, and at the very least you can find gameplay videos/reviews online.

In my experience people who say this rarely at best actually follow up on buying the game, but have delusions of moral integrity nonetheless.