If people try to link violent video games with real violence...

[ThrobbingEgo]

Don't misrepresent what I've said, especially on a forum where the comments are relatively permanent, and we can quote each other quite easily!

1) You've misrepresented my argument a few times.
2) I misattributed Nageck's quote to you by accident. I didn't even know I did it. It happens.

3) I'm not saying you think video games cause murders - I'm saying they don't. There's a difference. If you agree with me on that point, I don't know what your issue here is.

And, hey, look at my original post. I never even mentioned aggression. I really am at a loss to what you're arguing about.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Why isn't there any research on kleptomania and the Zelda games? I mean, it stands to reason that if a person is desensitized to violence by preforming virtual violent acts then disrespecting virtual property rights in Zelda or other RPGs (smashing pots, destroying people's hedges, stealing anything that isn't nailed down) should desensitize people from the shock of theft, breaking and entering, and destruction of property. It's the same logic.

I'd argue that stealing and looting is more prevalent in games than grotesque violence and murder. And stealing isn't as severe as murder - people are going to be more naturally repulsed by murder than they are by theft - so the effect that playing these looting games has on a developing person's conscious should be even greater.

Heck, I bet every high school aged burglar has played a video game in which he'd take items that didn't rightly belong to his character. They'd brake into a temple, off some guardians, and steal sacred artefacts - then they'd steal their neighbors' television. Correleation ALWAYS means a direct, non-reversible, causation.

Or maybe people just aren't all that influenced by what they play in fictional settings.

Your thoughts, internet people who are obviously predisposed to be murderers, rapists, and burglars?

What a fantastic argument. I'll have to remember this point.

 

[HentMas]

Well... in all fairness one does not see in those games you are "stealing" you are portrayed as a guy that is finding "stuff" to help him in his "quest" and that "stuff" is "hidden" in someone elses home, and, wile you actually enter without permission, take all, and go out, the NPC´s dont do anything, so, in the imposibility of an NPC stopping you, well, you dont see it as wrong...

now, you must think on "some" RPG´s wich actually punish stealing (like Pagan Ultima VIII or Fallout 3), the sentiment is still the same, you dont steal just to get "money" you steall because you "need" to

in the end the relation of "stealing" i believe it to be just because someone "needs" to "steal" to get the cool items, so if someone doesnt need to steal something in the real life, well they wont...

hope i was able to get my idea across

 

[brynnflynn]

The kleptomania bit really had me - I was absolutely rip-shit when I played Chrono Trigger on the DS (first time, I got into games late in the game), and

Spoiler

I was put on trial and asked "Have you ever stolen anything?" Well, I thought, I probably have, since they've come up with bullcrap examples of my untrustworthy nature. So I answered yes. Lo and behold, they trotted out an old man who'd been near the bag I'd taken early on in the game.

My first reaction as a gamer was a more feminine version of Yahtzee's "BULL FOOKING SHIAT". If it's 'takeable', then I'm damn well going to take it and no one's going to care! Then of course the budding writer/game designer in me stroked her chin and said, "Actually, that's a really brilliant and well done twist. Bravo!"

An excellent topic.

 

[UltimatheChosen]

I'd argue that stealing and looting is more prevalent in games than grotesque violence and murder.

I'd actually disagree with you here, unless you're equating vandalism with stealing.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Don't misrepresent what I've said, especially on a forum where the comments are relatively permanent, and we can quote each other quite easily!

1) You've misrepresented my argument a few times.
2) I misattributed Nageck's quote to you by accident. I didn't even know I did it. It happens.

3) I'm not saying you think video games cause murders - I'm saying they don't. There's a difference. If you agree with me on that point, I don't know what your issue here is.

Because you are misrepresenting the data and using a straw man argument to imply that video games and violence/aggression are independent. They are not. Video games cause aggression and violence, usually in the short term, and this could be a significant factor. Denying that is simply absurd, given the evidence.

We can both agree they most likely do not cause perfectly sane people with all other factors removed to go on killing sprees. But to ignore or disregard the potential out of hand as you and many others in this thread have done is not merely scientifically inaccurate, but alarmingly denialist in nature.

You missed my edit in that quote. I never mentioned aggression in my original post.

Also, if I'm the one misrepresenting the data - how come you're the one always saying "the data doesn't..." or "the data shows"? I never mentioned any data. I can't misrepresent data if I'm not using it. I'm taking Jack Thompson's argument that Counter-Strike causes school shooting by desensitising people and training them to kill - a very specific thing - and mocking it by arguing that Zelda trains people to be Kleptomaniacs - another very specific thing. I. Never. Mentioned. Aggression. In. My. Original. Post. Full stop.

If you associate Jack Thompson's base argument with misrepresenting evidence...

Anyway, I'm not sure what your deal is with my original post.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I'd argue that stealing and looting is more prevalent in games than grotesque violence and murder.

I'd actually disagree with you here, unless you're equating vandalism with stealing.

Breaking and entering, vandalism, then absconding with the rupees, bombs, and arrows lawfully kept within someone's home. I call that theft.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Violent video games lead to faggotry like this site

Dude, posts like that are so hetero.

 

[UltimatheChosen]

I'd argue that stealing and looting is more prevalent in games than grotesque violence and murder.

I'd actually disagree with you here, unless you're equating vandalism with stealing.

Breaking and entering, vandalism, then absconding with the rupees, bombs, and arrows lawfully kept within someone's home. I call that theft.

Out of early video games, Zelda is the only one I can think of that regularly features theft. I'm not denying it exists in video games, I'm just saying violence and killing is a lot more common.

 

[WeedWorm]

(In response to the title of the thread) I laugh at them then point out that if someone steals, kills or does anything like that, they were going to do it eventually.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I'd argue that stealing and looting is more prevalent in games than grotesque violence and murder.

I'd actually disagree with you here, unless you're equating vandalism with stealing.

Breaking and entering, vandalism, then absconding with the rupees, bombs, and arrows lawfully kept within someone's home. I call that theft.

Out of early video games, Zelda is the only one I can think of that regularly features theft. I'm not denying it exists in video games, I'm just saying violence and killing is a lot more common.

Have you ever played an RPG? And what about Mario Bros? Mario walks into Bowser's castles, steals powerups Bowser was clearly saving in ! blocks, and uses them to off his minions. Yes, there's murder here but there's also, clearly, theft.

 

[UltimatheChosen]

Out of early video games, Zelda is the only one I can think of that regularly features theft. I'm not denying it exists in video games, I'm just saying violence and killing is a lot more common.

Have you ever played an RPG? And what about Mario Bros? Mario walks into Bowser's castles, steals powerups Bowser was clearly saving in ! blocks, and uses them to off his minions. Yes, there's murder here but there's also, clearly, theft.

Have I ever an RPG? Oh, yes. I'm an RPG whore.
However, I wouldn't consider Mario or RPGs to be theft, per se, considering that the property was probably illegally acquired in the first place, or at least was being used for nefarious (I love that word) ends. And for each RPG, there's dozens of shooters and platformers with violence and no theft.

Theft is certainly prevalent in games, but I would say it's still behind violence.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Violent video games lead to faggotry like this site

Dude, posts like that are so hetero.

Dude, your avatar is Freud, so I'd shut the fuck up because you obviously have HUGE ego issues

Gee, my avatar is Freud and my username is ThrobbingEgo. You think, maybe, there's a little irony involved here?

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Out of early video games, Zelda is the only one I can think of that regularly features theft. I'm not denying it exists in video games, I'm just saying violence and killing is a lot more common.

Have you ever played an RPG? And what about Mario Bros? Mario walks into Bowser's castles, steals powerups Bowser was clearly saving in ! blocks, and uses them to off his minions. Yes, there's murder here but there's also, clearly, theft.

Have I ever an RPG? Oh, yes. I'm an RPG whore.
However, I wouldn't consider Mario or RPGs to be theft, per se, considering that the property was probably illegally acquired in the first place, or at least was being used for nefarious (I love that word) ends. And for each RPG, there's dozens of shooters and platformers with violence and no theft.

Theft is certainly prevalent in games, but I would say it's still behind violence.

And therein lies the problem. While you're playing it, you don't even realize it's wrong.

Maybe that family that was saving that healing elixir under their stove needed that medicine for their sick children. Nice work taking it, hero. Just because you're on a quest doesn't give you the right to barge into people's homes and take shit.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

My deal with it is it is a straw man analogy to the aggression caused by video games data. More than that, we HAVE data on stealing and subterfuge in games causing similar effects in real life, and it DOES show that doing such things leads to replication and secrecy in the real world. Therefore, it leads pretty good credence that Zelda caused a good deal of subterfuge by its stealing mechanics.

So, your "mocking" statements are fundamentally flawed and misleading.

But I'm mocking a statement that is fundamentally flawed and misleading. If you want to paint my parody as something it's not, I can't stop you.

And, if you seriously believe that Zelda caused a good deal of "subterfuge" with it's "stealing" mechanic (which obviously isn't intended to be stealing, unless you play that one part of Link's Awakening).... well, I don't really know what to say except: "told you so!"

 

[Jamous]

Meh. To be honest, people who tend to go and DO things from games in reality tend to either: not have the firmest grip on reality, be on LSD/other powerful hallucinogens, not have fully developed mental faculties or just be plain psychotic (with no real relation to the video games). I've noticed that it {video games] seems to be blamed for violent behaviour, although many people I know are still just as violent even if they haven't played video games for weeks. There might be a connection, but personally, I doubt it.