If someone is a post-op transsexual, are they obligated to tell the person they are pursuing/dating?

[DigitalSushi]

Is that you as a mod telling us to stop it? Because I'm not the kind of person to give up otherwise and I find his attitude deplorable.

And I am not telling Volf he has to socialize with them. I am, however, telling him that he is not owed that information on a first date or in a one night stand.

I wouldn't like to tell you to stop, I'm asking you to stop, as another user, its getting pretty boring.

Well he's not going to concede to your demands now is he? much like your not going to concede to him, and you can't make him act how you think he should act and think.

Its a mute point, completely redundant because if he did meet and date a transgender they wouldn't tell him straight off anyway, he would demand to know but its not going to happen anyway and the relationship would fall flat from some other superfluous reason, hence he never knows anyway!.

Your trying to goad him into something that isn't going to happen, your wasting your time trying to win an internet argument.

Now it would be nice if you and Volf would stop being the Duelist's of Flame Warriors;
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/duelists.htm

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Obviously, it can be difficult for an transsexual telling their partner that they used to be a different gender, but the fact of the matter is that relationships are based on trust, so whether it's a medical condition, criminal history or whatever, you should tell them if you're in a long-term relationship. If the person loves you, then he/she'll accept you for who you are. If he/she'll dumps you purely because he can't get over the "icky" fact that your vagina used to be a penis (or vice versa), then he's clearly not the right person for you.

Personally, if I was dating a trans woman and, at any time, she told me that she was born biologically as a man, I simply wouldn't care and stay with her regardless. I wouldn't think of her any differently, considering that I would've believed that she was a "natural" woman with "natural" breasts and a vagina. I don't want children, so there'd be no problem with that, and even if I did, there's always adoption or surrogacy.

The fact that transphobia and misplaced homophobia still exists in the 21st century with all our knowledge, to the point that some people are even pushed to suicide because of social backlash, is frankly disgusting. At the end of the day, we're still all human beings.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Is that you as a mod telling us to stop it? Because I'm not the kind of person to give up otherwise and I find his attitude deplorable.

And I am not telling Volf he has to socialize with them. I am, however, telling him that he is not owed that information on a first date or in a one night stand.

I wouldn't like to tell you to stop, I'm asking you to stop, as another user, its getting pretty boring.

Well he's not going to concede to your demands now is he? much like your not going to concede to him, and you can't make him act how you think he should act and think.

Its a mute point, completely redundant because if he did meet and date a transgender they wouldn't tell him straight off anyway, he would demand to know but its not going to happen anyway and the relationship would fall flat from some other superfluous reason, hence he never knows anyway!.

Your trying to goad him into something that isn't going to happen, your wasting your time trying to win an internet argument.

Now it would be nice if you and Volf would stop being the Duelist's of Flame Warriors;
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/duelists.htm

Yep, my stance is going to stay the same. But seeing as your a mod, I'll avoid potentially ticking you off.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

They are the one with the secret, they are the one that is misleading me.

I'm not asking you to stop replying, just to admit your wrong.

I made an argument for how they are not misleading you. You failed to address it. So nope, you're still wrong on that.

LOL. Wow. That mentality. Hilarious. I won't admit I'm wrong when you clearly are. But then I don't expect much from you given what I've seen before.

Will you two stop it please.

Normally when a stalemate is reached in real life people agree to disagree, this is not admitting defeat, you just have opposing opinions and you'll never see eye to eye on the subject.

Volf doesn't want to socialise with transgender's then that's his prerogative, its not against the law to not want to be with a group you don't like or feel comfortable with, I stay away from those mother baby groups myself.

You two aren't arguing your cases anymore, your just going;
"no you admit your wrong!"
"no you admit your wrong!"
You sound like an old couple to be honest.

OT, my view is that I really don't mind, its up to the person in question if they feel the need to tell me, in fact I have a few transgender friends and they all told me themselves about it, I guess because I'm easy going so I wont prejudice them, I'm actually honoured that someone is comfortable enough with me to be that honest.

Is that you as a mod telling us to stop it? Because I'm not the kind of person to give up otherwise and I find his attitude deplorable.

And I am not telling Volf he has to socialize with them. I am, however, telling him that he is not owed that information on a first date or in a one night stand.

your going on, even though a mod asked for this to end? ok....

Yeah I have a right to make a choice.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Obviously, it can be difficult for an transsexual telling their partner that they used to be a different gender, but the fact of the matter is that relationships are based on trust, so whether it's a medical condition, criminal history or whatever, you should tell them if you're in a long-term relationship. If the person loves you, then he/she'll accept you for who you are. If he/she'll dumps you purely because he can't get over the "icky" fact that your vagina used to be a penis (or vice versa), then he's clearly not the right person for you.

Personally, if I was dating a trans woman and, at any time, she told me that she was born biologically as a man, I simply wouldn't care and stay with her regardless. I wouldn't think of her any differently, considering that I would've believed that she was a "natural" woman with "natural" breasts and a vagina. I don't want children, so there'd be no problem with that, and even if I did, there's always adoption or surrogacy.

The fact that transphobia and misplaced homophobia still exists in the 21st century with all our knowledge, to the point that some people are even pushed to suicide because of social backlash, is frankly disgusting. At the end of the day, we're still all human beings.

Very well said. Not everyone, but there have been one or two people earlier in the thread who tossed out gross generalizations about trans people and the surgeries being performed by medical school drop outs. Having seen a mtf post op after all the healing is done, and having been married to a cis woman for 10 years, i couldn't tell the difference. Surgeons like MArcy Bowers are surgical artist masters! it's amazing what they can do. As i have stated on many occasions as these threads come up, if i wasn't married and met a trans woman (i didn't know she was such) and we hit it off, and got along really well (I don't do one night stands), I wouldn't care, and i would have no desire to pry, or force her to tell me. My wife and i married after being together for nearly 2 years, and we didn't know everything there was to know. We have learned those details over the years. It didn't hurt me when i found out about some dark secret, it was up tp her if she EVER told me.

Yeah, and more power to you. I literally can't fathom why some people can't get over the fact that someone used to have a different genitalia, either thinking that it's disgusting or that they're somehow THE DREADED GAY for having sex with someone that biologically may've previously been the same gender as you, which just shows how insecure they are about their sexuality. If you want to get your knickers in a twist over something like that and lash out at the person who loves you so much to the point that he/she was afraid to scare you off, then the only person you should blame is yourself for letting your insecurites and/or prejudice wield so much control over you.

Obviously, not all sex reassignment surgery is performed by medical school drop outs, and those that are saying that clearly know NOTHING about what goes on. I don't consider myself an expert on this, but from what I've heard, the serious danger is desperate transgender people ordering unprescribed hormone drugs on the internet, because they don't want their parents to find out, or their parents don't have the money or simply the doctor is refusing them treatment.

And I wouldn't hold it against the potential trans woman I was dating for decieving me or anything, because I'd understand how hard it is to reveal a secret like that because we live in such a crappy society, and if I considered her a woman beforehand, then there'd be no reason for me not to afterwards.

 

[DigitalSushi]

the serious danger is desperate transgender people ordering unprescribed hormone drugs on the internet, because they don't want their parents to find out, or their parents don't have the money or simply the doctor is refusing them treatment.

I cannot fathom this, that would be horrid, and hopefully people read your comments and actually take on board the feelings of people with Gender Identity Disorder.

sorry but need to spoiler this

Spoiler

There's a girl in the UK (only 5 years old) that knew she was a girl to the point she tried to cut off her penis using scissors, a penis which she was born with, because she knew in her mind she was a girl and hated being physically a boy

I didn't feel I should spoiler it because I felt I should, I only spoilered it because some people might think that is gross because they don't understand the situation and some may feel I'm using shock tactics, which I swear on my mothers eyes, that isn't my objective.

You might feel uncomfortable with dating a transgender, but think about how uncomfortable they felt growing up in a body they felt they didn't belong in?, its harder for them to tell you than it it for you to listen to them.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

the serious danger is desperate transgender people ordering unprescribed hormone drugs on the internet, because they don't want their parents to find out, or their parents don't have the money or simply the doctor is refusing them treatment.

I cannot fathom this, that would be horrid, and hopefully people read your comments and actually take on board the feelings of people with Gender Identity Disorder.

Yeah, it's just sad. Sometimes, even the doctors aren't the most emphatic people about it, or they don't think you're ready for treatment. They say, "Wait a few more years and see how you feel". That doesn't help to a person teetering on the verge of suicide who has felt like an outsider within her own body for likely her entire life, and it only gets worse through puberty.

sorry but need to spoiler this

Spoiler

There's a girl in the UK (only 5 years old) that knew she was a girl to the point she tried to cut off her penis using scissors, a penis which she was born with, because she knew in her mind she was a girl and hated being physically a boy

I didn't feel I should spoiler it because I felt I should, I only spoilered it because some people might think that is gross because they don't understand the situation and some may feel I'm using shock tactics, which I swear on my mothers eyes, that isn't my objective.

You might feel uncomfortable with dating a transgender, but think about how uncomfortable they felt growing up in a body they felt they didn't belong in?, its harder for them to tell you than it it for you to listen to them.

Yeah, I think I've heard of that girl (I live in the UK). It's just really sad how genetics can just randomly screw people over like that, and certain idiots in society refuse to even acknowledge their feelings when they hurl abuse at them, whether it be verbal or physical. So basically, not only do they have to struggle with the hate they feel within themselvs, they have to struggle with the hate they're getting from others.

And I know you're probably not directing this at me or anything, and just addressing people in general, but I've already said that I'd be perfectly fine dating a trans woman.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Yeah, it's just sad. Sometimes, even the doctors aren't the most emphatic people about it, or they don't think you're ready for treatment. They say, "Wait a few more years and see how you feel". That doesn't help to a person teetering on the verge of suicide who has felt like an outsider within her own body for likely her entire life, and it only gets worse through puberty.

The problem is when they are seeing a Doctor that isn't an expert or maybe that Doctor is prejudice against trans (it happens).

Yeah, I think I've heard of that girl (I live in the UK). It's just really sad how genetics can just randomly screw people over like that, and certain idiots in society refuse to even acknowledge their feelings when they hurl abuse at them, whether it be verbal or physical. So basically, not only do they have to struggle with the hate they feel within themselvs, they have to struggle with the hate they're getting from others.

You got my feelings on the matter right on the money there

And I know you're probably not directing this at me or anything, and just addressing people in general, but I've already said that I'd be perfectly fine dating a trans woman.

Sorry about that, your right I didn't mean to make it sound I was directing it at you!, I think you've been a breath of fresh air in all of this.

I used to be friends with a trans girl who got all her hormones/breast augmentation illegally. She's an "entertainer" so she was desperate for "immediate results". As i understand it, she also did silicone injections in other areas to give her self a very feminine body asap. The irony is, she's had no ffs, and is absolutely beautiful! I mean stunning, you'd NEVER know she was born a boy, it's sad that she's doing those things to herself in pursuit of a career.

Actually it is quite sad that we would be so shallow to goad and promote a young woman to do such things to her body.

I hope she's not using industrial grade silicone? that's rather poisonous and toxic to us, I wouldn't want anyone in danger in the pursuit of fame.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Yeah, it's just sad. Sometimes, even the doctors aren't the most emphatic people about it, or they don't think you're ready for treatment. They say, "Wait a few more years and see how you feel". That doesn't help to a person teetering on the verge of suicide who has felt like an outsider within her own body for likely her entire life, and it only gets worse through puberty.

The problem is when they are seeing a Doctor that isn't an expert or maybe that Doctor is prejudice against trans (it happens).

Yeah, I know about that too. There really needs to be more help for people with gender identity disorder. I don't know whether or not it should be taught in schools (since they're teaching us about equally important things in our society, such as religion, culture, sex education, careers, citizenship, etc.), although you'll probably get ignorant parents kicking up a fuss about it and saying it'll turn their children into transsexuals or whatever bullshit they feel like spouting.

Yeah, I think I've heard of that girl (I live in the UK). It's just really sad how genetics can just randomly screw people over like that, and certain idiots in society refuse to even acknowledge their feelings when they hurl abuse at them, whether it be verbal or physical. So basically, not only do they have to struggle with the hate they feel within themselvs, they have to struggle with the hate they're getting from others.

You got my feelings on the matter right on the money there

Yeah. I also heard another story on the Jeremy Kyle Show (no, it's not all ridiculous stories about "chavs" cheating on their sister by having sex with their boyfriend or something; they do genuinely serious and adult stories on there too) about this teenage trans boy called "Ben" in Cumbria, I think, who almost never went out of his house and secluded himself in his bedroom, with the only people coming up being a girl he was friends with, or his girlfriend.

I don't quite remember all the details, but his parents refuesd to allow him treatment because they were afraid that he might change his mind afterwards, as the father had heard stories of post-op transsexuals having regretted their operation and, thus, can't go back. But it makes me think of the whole "It's just a phase" myth that people appear to automatically believe, despite the sufferer in question saying that he/she'd felt this way since birth.

I think the boy in question said that, once he was 18, he was going to get treatment, and there was a storyline a while ago on the soap opera Hollyoaks, concerning another teenage transgender boy. Even though it's a soap (which is hardly a master of storytelling), I think it handled the issue quite well and explored the various prejudices that transgender people can experience from their own community. "Ben", the guy from earlier, helped out with the actress behind the scenes, which was nice of him and the soap staff to have that kind of insight.

And I know you're probably not directing this at me or anything, and just addressing people in general, but I've already said that I'd be perfectly fine dating a trans woman.

Sorry about that, your right I didn't mean to make it sound I was directing it at you!, I think you've been a breath of fresh air in all of this.

Yeah, thanks. I knew that; I was just replying, just in case.

I used to be friends with a trans girl who got all her hormones/breast augmentation illegally. She's an "entertainer" so she was desperate for "immediate results". As i understand it, she also did silicone injections in other areas to give her self a very feminine body asap. The irony is, she's had no ffs, and is absolutely beautiful! I mean stunning, you'd NEVER know she was born a boy, it's sad that she's doing those things to herself in pursuit of a career.

Actually it is quite sad that we would be so shallow to goad and promote a young woman to do such things to her body.

I hope she's not using industrial grade silicone? that's rather poisonous and toxic to us, I wouldn't want anyone in danger in the pursuit of fame.

Yeah, agreed. I'm not so sure that it's entirely safe, considering it's not prescribed by a qualified doctor and something could go terribly wrong when you're injecting something in your body that you don't fully know is inside or if you're meant to take it. So it was lucky that everything turned out OK.

Although, in terms of society goading and promoting a young woman to enhance her feminine aspects, I've noticed from programmes and the like that many trans women feel the need to be overtly feminine and enhanced, to hide apparent insecurities and/or the fact that they may biologically still be male or look like one underneath the make-up.

Either way, a lot of trans women I've seen can "pass" for women, even without make-up or boob jobs, but I guess a big part of the problem is the latent sexism, exploitation and obsession with female aesthetic quality in our society, which bleeds over into trans women, just like all other "natural" women. That's regardless of profession.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Although, in terms of society goading and promoting a young woman to enhance her feminine aspects, I've noticed from programmes and the like that many trans women feel the need to be overtly feminine and enhanced, to hide apparent insecurities and/or the fact that they may biologically still be male or look like one underneath the make-up.

Either way, a lot of trans women I've seen can "pass" for women, even without make-up or boob jobs, but I guess a big part of the problem is the latent sexism, exploitation and obsession with female aesthetic quality in our society, which bleeds over into trans women, just like all other "natural" women. That's regardless of profession.

Many trans women do indeed feel they HAVE to go "OVERLY and overtly" feminine to mask there former self. Since i have had at least one person PM and tell me they are behind me, i will say it here and now. I am indeed a trans woman. Nearly 3 years on hormones. And TRUST me when i say the biggest "issue" i and many of us have is passing. I have/had major anxiety about it, but i have been hit on, winked at, given longer than normal smiles and glances, and don't get me wrong it's flattering. But there's always that spot in the back of my mind, "is this guy or that guy reading me?" (reading means to tell someone is trans). Can i expect him to be in the parking lot waiting to assault me? It's truly sad trans people have to worry about those things more than most.

I haven't had any surgeries (GRS, FFS, breast implants), and my confidence level is pretty high, and i am happier now than i have ever been in my 30-coughcough years. I look forward to some day have my grs and finally be complete. So, ya a lot of trans women become almost a parody of what we want to be, because of those pressures, and the worry if we're not feminine enough we'll get read.

And you see, from your profile picture (assuming that it's you, despite being a small photo), I never would've guessed that you were a trans women. But I understand that there's likely a strong element of self-consciousness, because of the stigma that still surrounds transsexualism. It's unfortunate, but it doesn't seem as if there's any way out.

I mean, yeah, it's a crushing reality that, while many trans people can "pass", others may not, either because they still look a bit like their previous gender (a while ago, I watched a programme about transgender, and one of the trans women was quite early in her process, so she still looked like, in her own words, "a bad tranny"; although I have certain reservations about her and someone else in that programme using the terms "tranny" and "dyke" respectively, since it might cast the impression to the public that it's OK to use such derogatory terms as this, even though they may be justified in using it if they're reclaiming the word or whatever. Like how many black people freely use the word "nigga".), or they still sound like a previous gender, or they have an Adam's Apple (although, personally, I never really notice Adam's Apples).

But I guess some slight form of consolation is that, at least in the future (if climate change or whatever hasn't screwed us over already), science may improve to the point that sex reassignment surgery will mean you'll be entirely like a "natural" woman. Not saying that you're not now, but I mean exactly like one.

There's a Japanese art student that's actually made a menstruation machine that can literally allow biological men to undergo periods, which may certainly be helpful for trans women. Of course, even menstruation might be obselete in the future, but until then, this can help.

Here's the video demonstrating the mechanics and usage of the machine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnb-rdGbm6s

 

[Relish in Chaos]

/blush well thank you that is indeed me. Ya the T word to many is very derogatory, and i hate it. While some do try to reclaim it, i think it's best to let it go, there's a huge stigma with it, and people seem to be more apt to call a trans person that word than a black person the N word.

Ya, that machine is not something i'd ever be interested in, i just want to be physically (outwardly) complete.

Yeah, I think people are less apt to call a black person the N word than they are the T word because there's more history there and people are more aware of that. But it's not as if transphobia is a new thing or anything. While someone could argue that it's just a word and offense is subjective, the fact of the matter is that words can hurt and they have stigma, connotations, etc.

That's fair enough. Different trans people have different opinions and desires. Some are perfectly happy just looking like the gender they identify with and aren't physically disgusted with their natural chest and genitalia, while others are and want the surgery to feel more complete.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Yeah, I think people are less apt to call a black person the N word than they are the T word because there's more history there and people are more aware of that. But it's not as if transphobia is a new thing or anything. While someone could argue that it's just a word and offense is subjective, the fact of the matter is that words can hurt and they have stigma, connotations, etc.

That's fair enough. Different trans people have different opinions and desires. Some are perfectly happy just looking like the gender they identify with and aren't physically disgusted with their natural chest and genitalia, while others are and want the surgery to feel more complete.

totally agree, the history of the N word seems to be more "severe" for obvious reasons. Ya, i know a wide range of trans women who all want different things in the end. MANY want to be able to bare children, me? i have NO motherly instinct lol I just want to be complete, i am pretty damn happy as i am, but one more thing and i am set!

Yeah, and that's perfectly fine. Of course it's hard or maybe not ideal, but what can you do? Nothing's perfect, but if it makes you happy, or happy enough, then you should do it, regardless of what others think. They can live their lives, and you can live yours.