If We're Going To Get The Games We Want We Will Have To Make Them Ourselves

[The_Echo]

Instead of bitching about what we don't have on a internet forum why don't get out there and make what we want?

If we made the games we wanted to play, you know what'd happen?

We'd be the one who made that game. Would you read a book you wrote? Watch a movie you directed? Maybe after a while, when you look back to see how you did.

But it will never be something you'd play as a gamer. That's why we ***** and moan online. Because we can't make the games we want to play. Not to mention other factors like, uh, not wanting to. Or having jobs, or no knowledge of how to make a game.

 

[KOMega]

I know about how to make video games about as much as I know what the 11 secret herbs and spices are.

All I can do is try and help or support those who share my interests in games.

omnomnomnom food metaphors

I like supporting the Ol' indie food stand on the corner of the street. With all the mismatch of flavors, I'm sure one guy somewhere is selling all the fish tacos I want right now.

 

[Iori Branford]

Absolutely true. The one sure thing that will maintain the creative and vibrant gaming landscape we crave: Making something, and helping each other make things. Anything from number-tweaking minimod to full-blown title is a new voice on the scene and a new way to play, adding richness and life to existing games and to the market.

That's what I'm planning to do. I've got one more year of university to finish and then I'm going to make the game I've always wanted to play: a historical simulation about being a lord and running a fiefdom in medieval Scotland. You'll create a young Scottish noble who inhierets a castle and some villages near the border with England, and part of the game will be about maintaining your castle and improving your villages over your lifetime. As well as improving your status as court and fighting off raiders from across the border, doing a whole bunch of other medieval things.

A good sim is going to be a monstrous undertaking, with a great variety of gameplay subsystems each operating under possibly unique sets of complex rules, and by extension a ton of different user interfaces. If I were you, I'd start prototyping and concepting those subsystems ASAP, probably aim to come out of school with a vertical slice featuring the strongest and most prominent gameplay segments, which should give a big boost when pitching the concept.
Of course, still set aside some time to actually enjoy the sort of thing you hope to produce, and pick up some inspiration too. Though not my genre personally, from what I've heard you may find Lords of the Realm [http://www.gog.com/game/lords_of_the_realm_royal_edition] illuminating -- not only as a successful example, but one that succeeds despite lacking the technical muscle of later and better-funded titles.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

If you say so. Frankly, I'm getting a lot of the games that I want right now.

 

[Madman123456]

Would be fine if the bitching stopped. Don't make "new" games, that'll just end up getting you a new tower defense, if you're lucky.

 

[WoW Killer]

From my perspective, and a little bit of advice, it's not the programming or the ideas that are the toughest thing for my team. Game balance is a pig to get right (because over the course of building your game you will become somewhat good at it and we have found that we have been making things too tough too quickly!) and knowing when to stop trying to add new ideas and features is something a lot of devs don't do well. Make sure you know what you want to achieve before you even fire up a code editor.

And that's basically the only thing that comes easy to me! Heh, that's what I was saying about game design needing so many different disciplines. Within game design you'll find something you're pretty good at and something you're awful at, guaranteed. I said coding, graphics and sound minimum, but add to that mechanics, level/world design and story/writing. How's that solo project looking now?

Regarding gamedev.net I feel I should warn anybody that goes there that it's a site that many professional people use (that means people that actually make games as a living). So any amateurs need to listen and learn. Don't pretend to know something you don't. There's a beginner forum there, and if you don't know whether a problem belongs in the beginner or general forums, it belongs in the beginner forum. But don't let that put you off, I learned a shit lot about all sorts of different things through that site, from programming, 3D modelling, sound software, you name it. Ask questions, listen and learn, don't preach.

I think it's more like going to a restaurant, ordering a meal, getting exactly what you've ordered because the food menu that says "Call of Duty", "Battlefield" and "Grand Theft Auto" is very descriptive, has pictures and videos and more. You then stand up and throw a temper tantrum that while the food is exactly what it said on the menu, you don't like the food because it contains too much... err, garlic and not enough oregano and salt.

You then instead of going to a different restaurant that might be more to your tastes proceed eating there every week throwing a similar tantrum over and over again while most of the people around you are enjoying their meal they ordered and paid for and every time you throw your tantrum look at you funny, half worried, half afraid and another half (yes, another half) like you are the crazy cat lady.

Dex... have I been misreading your posts for all this time, or do I secretely agree with you? That's basically my entire thoughts on gaming culture right there, and yet I usually disagree with your posts...

So... it's a lovely sentiment, the whole 'get off your arse and make games', but the sad truth is most of us can't make games.

You'd be surprised. No, most people can't make games, but you'd be surprised how far the normal gamer can get. It's worth trying. You'll learn a lot along the way, even if you don't make what you were in intending to. You'll learn a lot about games, and that's a great thing for a gaming enthusiast.

 

[piinyouri]

Even in something as rudimentary as the RPG Maker games, even the original Play Station one still takes a lot of work, planning and balancing(the worst part in my opinion) to get even a semi complete project.

Plus you have to account for feature creep, which when you are the main creative contributor is very easy to fall into.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

That's like going to a restaurant, ordering a meal, and finding it doesn't contain what you ordered. You send it back, whereupon the chief comes out and tell's you to make your goddamn self.

We pay for their games, it is therefore their job to make us happy. The problem is everyone buys their games anyway so it doesn't matter how much crap they make.

I think it's more like going to a restaurant, ordering a meal, getting exactly what you've ordered because the food menu that says "Call of Duty", "Battlefield" and "Grand Theft Auto" is very descriptive, has pictures and videos and more. You then stand up and throw a temper tantrum that while the food is exactly what it said on the menu, you don't like the food because it contains too much... err, garlic and not enough oregano and salt.

You then instead of going to a different restaurant that might be more to your tastes proceed eating there every week throwing a similar tantrum over and over again while most of the people around you are enjoying their meal they ordered and paid for and every time you throw your tantrum look at you funny, half worried, half afraid and another half (yes, another half) like you are the crazy cat lady.

Thank you, best analogy I've read so far on the subject.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

First off, Kudos, OP in chasing your dream, and having the drive, talent, time, connections, resources, funds, etc. to make it happen.
I hope your game does everything you want it to, sincerely. Still, I gotta disagree with you. The following, however, isn't really aimed at you, it's just a rant on my view of "make your own game."

*Raises flame shields.*

Again, do note that what I'm posting after this isn't directed at anyone in particular.

This whole "If you don't like games, make your own game" ranks up there as one of the most ignorant arguments/suggestions/STFU moves I've heard in gaming controvercies.
No, seriously. It's absurdly ignorant to the nth degree. Why?
What do you know about the person it's leveled at? Not a thing most likely!
Do you know about what sort of talents, resources, or connections the person has? No?
Do you know what it takes to make your own game? No? More ignorance!

I gotta wonder how much people care at times when they lob out that notion of making one's own game?

It's akin to saying "What? Don't like your car? Build your own!"
"Don't like a movie? Make your own!"
It's pretty absurd, even in this day and age.

Said suggestion assumes a -lot- about a person. A lot of those assumptions are going to be false. I.E. they have the time, talent, drive, funds, resources, etc. to make a game.

And even if a person decides to make their own game, I'm hard pressed to understand how they would enjoy it as they know every nuance of the game, and know it better than anyone else. They know how to break the game, and make optimal runs immediately. It kinda sucks out the magic of discovery.

What about people who have lofty goals like making a game that kicks the conventional wisdoms of the gaming industry in the teeth? Say, oh, making a game with a female protagonist that's good enough to sell well enough to make companies like EA/Naughty Dog/Rockstar, etc. notice? That seems virtually impossible to me on an indie budget.

Honestly, when was the last time you saw a large company look at an indie game and say "Wow, that's profitable! I like it! Let's create a game with those mechanics, and draw inspirtation from that indie game!" and actually follow through?

Lets not pretend that every indie game even makes it, is profitable, or goes over well. I'm not saying it has to, but that doesn't mean it never should be made with that motive.

What if the person does care about graphics, or AAA level game creation in general?

Oh, and think about this... if a person had the drive, funds, resources, vision, etc. to make their own game, THEY'D DO IT WITHOUT YOU BRINGING IT UP!!!

"Make your own game" is not the magical cure, here, people. It's an ignorant, ignorant, often times worthless suggestion.

Now, as I don't deal in absolutes, I'm not going to sit here and say every offering of "make your own game!" is bad, but it's starting to get that way as often as I see it. It's losing it's meaning, and it's integrity quickly as a suggestion, and seems more of a STFU conversation ender.
Honestly, even offered in well meaning, it's pretty bleedin' ignorant as the offering person generally knows jack about the person they're offering it to.

 

[wulf3n]

What do you know about the person it's leveled at? Not a thing most likely!
Do you know about what sort of talents, resources, or connections the person has? No?
Said suggestion assumes a -lot- about a person. A lot of those assumptions are going to be false. I.E. they have the time, talent, drive, funds, resources, etc. to make a game.
Honestly, even offered in well meaning, it's pretty bleedin' ignorant as the offering person generally knows jack about the person they're offering it to.

That's a depressing outlook. It's not necessarily about assuming what they can do now, but believing they have the ability to learn these skills.

"Don't like a movie? Make your own!"
It's pretty absurd, even in this day and age.

Not so much. see fanfilms.net [http://www.fanfilms.net]

Honestly, when was the last time you saw a large company look at an indie game and say "Wow, that's profitable! I like it! Let's create a game with those mechanics, and draw inspirtation from that indie game!" and actually follow through?

Portal.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

What do you know about the person it's leveled at? Not a thing most likely!
Do you know about what sort of talents, resources, or connections the person has? No?
Said suggestion assumes a -lot- about a person. A lot of those assumptions are going to be false. I.E. they have the time, talent, drive, funds, resources, etc. to make a game.
Honestly, even offered in well meaning, it's pretty bleedin' ignorant as the offering person generally knows jack about the person they're offering it to.

That's a depressing outlook. It's not necessarily about assuming what they can do now, but believing they have the ability to learn these skills.

"Don't like a movie? Make your own!"
It's pretty absurd, even in this day and age.

Not so much. see fanfilms.net [http://www.fanfilms.net]

Honestly, when was the last time you saw a large company look at an indie game and say "Wow, that's profitable! I like it! Let's create a game with those mechanics, and draw inspirtation from that indie game!" and actually follow through?

Portal.

A depressing, but realistic outlook that takes into account the person receiving the advice.
I mean look at a lot of the replies here. People are working stiffs with a life they have to dedicate themselves to. They don't have the luxury of the free time, resources, etc. to make a game.
You aren't universally talking to people young enough to sanely switch careers, go back to school, go to school, afford school, etc.

Believing a person has those talents? Well, if they did, they'd probably already make their own game. So, the suggestion is still fairly worthless. It's generally at the epitome of worthlessness when only "make your own game" is offered, and slightly less so when encouragement is offered and little else. I mean there are resources out there that can be offered to bolster the sincerity, and effectivenes of the suggestion.
I.E.
http://www.gamejamcentral.com/
http://www.geany.org/Download/Releases
http://www.mingw.org/
http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/
http://www.gamedev.net/page/getstarted.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/
(Credit to Vortex_Cortex for the links. I probably didn't use them as well as he did though.)

The resources are out there, at least in terms of programs, and ways to ask for help.
Regardless, if the person the suggestion is made to lacks in critical areas of development (Again, Time, vision, resources, etc.), it all falls apart.

If the world of game development was as great as people try and make it seem, we'd all be doing it, and we'd all be rich, and/or happy. It's just not the case, though.

Again, the suggestion is steeped in ignorance, no matter how well meaning it is. I can imagine not many people fall for that warm gushy "you can do it!" stuff.
The often blind optimism behind the well meant suggestion is annoying to me, honestly. Especially as a person that's heard the suggestion many times. I don't imagine I'm alone in this, as a lot of people aren't able to take advantage of the advice. Pressing the matter just gets obnoxious.

Yeah, making your own movie is still easier said than done. You still need a lot of the ingredients required to make your own game, especially the most important stuff like drive, vision, creativity in script and movement, time, money, and either the graphical art skills to create an animated cast, or charismatic people to be the cast, the latter much harder to obtain, IMO.

Portal? I won't deny it's existance as an example, but that is a short list for a somewhat dated game, even counting Portal 2.

 

[wulf3n]

A depressing, but realistic outlook that takes into account the person receiving the advice.

Believing a person has those talents? Well, if they did, they'd probably already make their own game. So, the suggestion is still fairly worthless. It's generally at the epitome of worthlessness when only "make your own game" is offered, and slightly less so when encouragement is offered and little else. I mean there are resources out there that can be offered to bolster the sincerity, and effectivenes of the suggestion.
I.E.
http://www.gamejamcentral.com/
http://www.geany.org/Download/Releases
http://www.mingw.org/
http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/
http://www.gamedev.net/page/getstarted.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/
(Credit to Vortex_Cortex for the links. I probably didn't use them as well as he did though.)

The resources are out there, at least in terms of programs, and ways to ask for help.
Regardless, if the person the suggestion is made to lacks in critical areas of development (Again, Time, vision, resources, etc.), it all falls apart.

If the world of game development was as great as people try and make it seem, we'd all be doing it, and we'd all be rich, and/or happy. It's just not the case, though.

Again, the suggestion is steeped in ignorance, no matter how well meaning it is. I can imagine not many people fall for that warm gushy "you can do it!" stuff.
The often blind optimism behind the well meant suggestion is annoying to me, honestly. Especially as a person that's heard the suggestion many times. I don't imagine I'm alone in this, as a lot of people aren't able to take advantage of the advice. Pressing the matter just gets obnoxious.

Yeah, making your own movie is still easier said than done. You still need a lot of the ingredients required to make your own game, especially the most important stuff like drive, vision, creativity in script and movement, time, money, and either the graphical art skills to create an animated cast, or charismatic people to be the cast, the latter much harder to obtain, IMO.

Portal? I won't deny it's existance as an example, but that is a short list for a somewhat dated game, even counting Portal 2.

Ignorance is just a bit harsh.

Ultimately what the statement really comes down to is would you prefer to spend your free time complaining about something you don't have, or would you rather spend your time learning how to create what you don't have.

Me I prefer to spend my time learning how to make games, and that's what I do.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

A depressing, but realistic outlook that takes into account the person receiving the advice.

Believing a person has those talents? Well, if they did, they'd probably already make their own game. So, the suggestion is still fairly worthless. It's generally at the epitome of worthlessness when only "make your own game" is offered, and slightly less so when encouragement is offered and little else. I mean there are resources out there that can be offered to bolster the sincerity, and effectivenes of the suggestion.
I.E.
http://www.gamejamcentral.com/
http://www.geany.org/Download/Releases
http://www.mingw.org/
http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/
http://www.gamedev.net/page/getstarted.html
http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/
(Credit to Vortex_Cortex for the links. I probably didn't use them as well as he did though.)

The resources are out there, at least in terms of programs, and ways to ask for help.
Regardless, if the person the suggestion is made to lacks in critical areas of development (Again, Time, vision, resources, etc.), it all falls apart.

If the world of game development was as great as people try and make it seem, we'd all be doing it, and we'd all be rich, and/or happy. It's just not the case, though.

Again, the suggestion is steeped in ignorance, no matter how well meaning it is. I can imagine not many people fall for that warm gushy "you can do it!" stuff.
The often blind optimism behind the well meant suggestion is annoying to me, honestly. Especially as a person that's heard the suggestion many times. I don't imagine I'm alone in this, as a lot of people aren't able to take advantage of the advice. Pressing the matter just gets obnoxious.

Yeah, making your own movie is still easier said than done. You still need a lot of the ingredients required to make your own game, especially the most important stuff like drive, vision, creativity in script and movement, time, money, and either the graphical art skills to create an animated cast, or charismatic people to be the cast, the latter much harder to obtain, IMO.

Portal? I won't deny it's existance as an example, but that is a short list for a somewhat dated game, even counting Portal 2.

Ignorance is just a bit harsh.

Ultimately what it really comes down to is would you prefer to spend your free time complaining about something you don't have, or would you rather spend your time learning how to create what you don't have.

Me I prefer to spend my time learning how to make games, and that's what I do.

Oh, no, it's a textbook definition ignorance. People toss out this advice not knowing much of anything about the target, and, at times, not even grasping the game development world. Thus they are ignorant.

If it is harsh, it's only to dissuade people from carelessly doling out the advice to make their own game.
Study what a person wants through their complaints, then wonder if it's plausible, realistically, to make that game on an indie budget.
If you can't glean what they want, then odds are the person you're trying to get a read on doesn't know either.
If you can glean what they want, but doubt it can be done effectively on an indie scale, then don't bother suggesting they make it themselves.
What I'm saying is, in general, try not to ignorantly toss out the suggestion. Get info. Invest a little. Don't pretend every goal is attainable.
If you toss it out in ignoance, then, well, you're ignorant.

I can't say I have a choice in the matter of complaining, or creating. While your stance is admirable, I don't have anything to offer the process of game development, and my goals are far too lofty even if I did, so I do what I can, and that's criticize the industry on a forum, or two while considering simpler alternative ways to get my point across and how, exactly, to do so. Always easier said than done, though.

 

[veloper]

No thank you.
Joining the chorus of complainers is not only much easier and more fun, it also seems to work!

Not just the obvious high-profile crap like a new ME3 ending, which I didn't really care about anyway, but also games catering to our niche demands.
Turn-based RPGs appear to be making a comeback (Wasteland2, Shadowrun). The 4X strategy genre has already been rejuvinated some time ago (Armada, SoSE, EU3, CK) and still going strong (Legendary heroes, EU4, GnK and Brave new world for Civ5, the upcoming AOW3 and Dominions4, etc. etc.). The indie and cheap scene is doing good things with the AG genre (Wadjet Eye games, King art). Shit, I'm even enjoying some recent AAA titles like Dishounored and Sleeping Dogs.

 

[ThriKreen]

Stop talking about wanting to, and go do it.

There's really no excuse, the bar of entry is really low now with programs like Blender and Unity3D.

Or if not computer based games, then at least work out the game mechanics via boardgames.

 

[Angelblaze]

Stop talking about wanting to, and go do it.

There's really no excuse, the bar of entry is really low now with programs like Blender and Unity3D.

Or if not computer based games, then at least work out the game mechanics via boardgames.

Speaking as a 16 year old honor student who has actually had game developer classes, I believe no.

No no no. Do not oversimplify it like that.

It takes lots of time, effort and work that not everyone can do to create a game.

 

[lord.jeff]

You're asking people to change their career path because they fail to enjoy a hobby as much as they like, that seems a really unrealistic request.

 

[wulf3n]

Speaking as a 16 year old honor student who has actually had game developer classes, I believe no.

No no no. Do not oversimplify it like that.

It takes lots of time, effort and work that not everyone can do to create a game.

Yeah, let's keep telling everyone that. We can't have more competition in the industry.