"if you don't like America then you can git out!"

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Planlixix

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Aug 11, 2009
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Warning: This is a rant that contains political speech, a controversial one at that. I'd ask everyone to keep to the high path here and not devolve into endless bickering and cheap hate speech. But hey it is politics so I guess I might as well have never written that at all.

And so it begins...

I've been seeing a sudden re-emergence of this fantastic line of reasoning lately, and it's taking a serious toll on my sanity, so I had to write this piece in order to vent a bit of the frustration I feel.



First off the whole arguement of "if you don't like it then get out" is so fundamentally ****-tardedly flawed that I feel a little piece of what little belief of humanity's intelligence I have left die every time I hear it.

Logistics: It's difficult to emigrate, it takes time, money, and it's like moving to a new town where nobody knows you, but in addition to that they may not even speak the language (of course that's getting dodgy here in the US too, but we'll get to that later).

Second: We were founded by a group of people who largely (well with the exception of good Ol' Benjie) had no freaking clue how to run a country, so they just borrowed everything that was to become America from Rome, and made the rest up as they went along. This worked well only because they were largely self-made intellectuals, unlike those that we find leading our country right now. Cause you know anyone that's actually intelligent scares off the average voter, which is why white male landowners should really be the only ones to vote (hell yea sexism, racism, and bigotry in one statement, and it's a quote from our founding fathers... rock on).

Thirdly: When you don't like what the country is doing you are forced to change its policies from within, it's your damn duty as a patriot to do so. It's why our Constitution was made with provisions to change aspects of it. It's why our founding fathers decided that freedom of speech was so important. Hell the concept of Democracy was founded to put elected officials in place that mirrors their voters own expectations, and to represent policies they want to have in place.

Fourth: I'm not saying America is totally bad, America does a number of things right.

Democracy (representative democracy, not true democracy, there is a difference google it)... well that's not working out because our elected officials are becoming inherently corrupt. On top of that they are becoming indecisive, making choices they feel will benefit them politically instead of the choices we want them to make (I'm looking at you Barrack). I can only imagine what it's like to hear the constant chattering of small-interest groups, while the majority that elected you remains silent... it must be unnerving, but the greatest leaders have been ones with an iron will (and a generous heart).

Um free-market enterprise... oh wait now the unbridled corruption of a purely free market has been tried, and there were unsafe labor conditions, ridiculous hours, child labor, indentured servitude, and ultimately product that could kill you. But hey that's just in the food industry, don't even get me started on railroad companies, or the mining industry. That was of course in the days before government regulation. Regulation we're lead to believe, by the same people that make this stupid quote, as 'dangerous'. Of course today we have the shining examples of Enron, and others to show how 'great' a free market enterprise is.

Let's see... we've done freedoms fairly well, oh wait speech has always been impeded and in the days of McCarthyism outright outlawed (oh yea and Abraham Lincoln toyed with the idea of outlawing free speech too), and multiple types of prohibition on things we damn well know can kill us but don't care are still in place?

I can almost see the comments being written now... comments like "FREE MARKET ENTERPRISE!!!!111!! IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN IT UR A COMMIE! YOUR A RACIST, YOU DON'T BELIEVE BLACKS/WOMEN/HOMELESS PEOPLE/TRAILER PARK PEOPLE SHOULD VOTE?!?!?! THAT'S WRONG!

Of course there could be slightly more intelligent comments of "they changed voting rights for a reason...", or "free market enterprise inspires people to do the best they can based on the fact that they will be richly rewarded for their hard work and effort" being written. But these would be off-topic as the title clearly states "if you don't like America then you can git out!" ;-)

Lol, anywho... I have an answer for both of these. The first, is that I made the comment (about white landowners) to further state that change is good, and people that were decidedly against what the government was doing, people like the good Dr. (if you're paying attention in February at all you know who I'm talking about), strove to change. Sure he could have moved to another country where he wouldn't be persecuted, but he decided to stay, fight, and make this country just a little bit better. The second... free market enterprise is flawed and has proven it cannot work for a society that wants to sustain itself. The auto industry is a good example. And as far as people being inspired solely on monetary gain, is quite simply... greed. As Gandhi said "The world can provide all people's needs, but not all that they greed" (sic).



Okay so I've gone thoroughly off topic... *sigh* there's just so much to be pissed about right now...
 

BehattedWanderer

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Jun 24, 2009
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So...Thomas Hobbes, John Calvin, Niccolo Machiavelli, Descartes, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau were not used as a platform of studied and contemporary works for Thomas Jefferson, among others? One wonders what this mindless bubbling rant is really about, since it starts to fall apart right around the beginning of your...er...babble. Congratulations, you have an opinion about the current president, and how he doesn't hold up to your expectations from your history class? And an extremely jaded one at that, if your rant at all reflects your education...
 

grimsprice

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Jun 28, 2009
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Ha ha. Good on ya, you seem flustered by all this. Ok, well i've got a solution that will solve all your problems

Make this a mandatory prerequisite of all politicians. All politicians must have at least a minor in economics before they take office. Only political leaders that have either majored, or minored in economics are eligible for office. There, problem solved.

OH yeah, and what the guy above me said. That too, i did notice that.
 

LooK iTz Jinjo

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Feb 22, 2009
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Well on your whole who should vote thing, I heard an interesting idea the other day which was that we should make people take a test, only those scoring high enough can vote. The test would be on Australian (American for you guys) politics and the system, how it works etc. This is not a "Name president no. 21" quiz, but would include questions like "Explain Separation of Powers and it's benefits," "What is Division of Powers?" and just for good measure "Name your local Member of Parliament."

In regards to how fucked America is, look around. It's not like no other countries are having problems, its a hard time for everyone and the fact that America is still recovering from 8 years of Bush doesn't help much. And you're right, if you don't like the way something is done in your country (and you pass that voting test) then you have a moral obligation to try and fix it for the better, of course I'm not calling for the KKK to come out and get rid of black rights etc, real changes to real problems.

hypothetical fact said:
The people with this as a bumper sticker are the same who throw their rubish out the window.
Also this ^^ *Facebook Like*
 

2012 Wont Happen

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Aug 12, 2009
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I am an ultra-liberal living in one of the most ultra-conservative states in the nation (Texas). I have where I live but I don't want to run away. I want to try to change it. I do want to live in Norway for a couple years once I graduate college to see socialism in action- but I will be back to keep up the fight once I'm done there.
 

daxter101

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Aug 17, 2009
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You have to challenge the flaws in a countrys system, and you have to question a leaders ideals, however no matter how far your country falls you should never hate it.

Personally find it offencive when people from, for example, a "wog" ethnicity (no offence intended), leave their country because of its obvious econimcal and political flaws and come to another country like australia, then parade around the place like their country is better and we suck, if we suck so much why did you leave your country?, by all means have pride in your heritige but dont badmouth the country that took you in.
 

Bretty

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Jul 15, 2008
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BehattedWanderer said:
So...Thomas Hobbes, John Calvin, Niccolo Machiavelli, Descartes, and Jean-Jacques Rousseau were not used as a platform of studied and contemporary works for Thomas Jefferson, among others? One wonders what this mindless bubbling rant is really about, since it starts to fall apart right around the beginning of your...er...babble. Congratulations, you have an opinion about the current president, and how he doesn't hold up to your expectations from your history class? And an extremely jaded one at that, if your rant at all reflects your education...
And Niccolo Machiavelli is really a good source for someone creating a Gov't?

Good rant, I liked it 8) but the guy I quoted obviously didn't....

Sounds like he had a little rant of his own! So cute.

I dont like his rant, hence the quote.
 

compensating

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May 12, 2009
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You know what would solve all these problems? A fascist government. Not that I would want one, just saying... that would solve all these complaints.
 

JaredXE

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Apr 1, 2009
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Bretty said:
And Niccolo Machiavelli is really a good source for someone creating a Gov't?

Actually...yes! Machiavelli is always downplayed as a schemer and a liar, which he was, but the whole point of his teachings and philosophy were to keep someone in power and how to deal with those whom you govern and those who wish to usurp your rule. I find that VERY important to know when setting your own government.


Edit: Oh yeah, and I am a big fan of Thomas Jefferson. Did you know he proposed that every generation we should destroy the Constitution and draw up a new one? And at the same time, forgive the National Debt? It was so the next generation would not be burdened by the screw-ups of the past. That our country could be governed by a living, changing document that we adjust to suit our current needs, as well as the means to run our government without worrying who owed whom.
 

Bretty

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Jul 15, 2008
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JaredXE said:
Bretty said:
And Niccolo Machiavelli is really a good source for someone creating a Gov't?

Actually...yes! Machiavelli is always downplayed as a schemer and a liar, which he was, but the whole point of his teachings and philosophy were to keep someone in power and how to deal with those whom you govern and those who wish to usurp your rule. I find that VERY important to know when setting your own government.

I think the idea behind his teachings were sound but he is WAY to authoritarian for these times, and even for the founding of the US.

I guess some like and some dont, I am in the middle. But do not think a statesman should employ, just understand, his theories.
 

Jedoro

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Jun 28, 2009
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Peace or freedom, choose one. The more you have of one, the less you have of the other. No one's going to agree on or stop complaining about everything while they're allowed to.

EDIT:
Chrissyluky said:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153855 thats all i have to say.
I love it
 

Kilo24

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Aug 20, 2008
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Bretty said:
JaredXE said:
Bretty said:
And Niccolo Machiavelli is really a good source for someone creating a Gov't?

Actually...yes! Machiavelli is always downplayed as a schemer and a liar, which he was, but the whole point of his teachings and philosophy were to keep someone in power and how to deal with those whom you govern and those who wish to usurp your rule. I find that VERY important to know when setting your own government.

I think the idea behind his teachings were sound but he is WAY to authoritarian for these times, and even for the founding of the US.

I guess some like and some dont, I am in the middle. But do not think a statesman should employ, just understand, his theories.
Machiavelli's The Prince never tried to answer what a ruler should do in the real world, but what a prince should do to stay in power. He stated that his ideas were focused on hereditary states, not republics (and democracies by his classification), basically because they were too volatile. It's a thought exercise more than a description of ideal behavior for most governments nowadays.

And as for the original topic, whining to the authorities and being a vocal pest is a patriotic duty for when your rights are being infringed, especially in a democracy.
 

guess who

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Jan 22, 2009
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daxter101 said:
You have to challenge the flaws in a countrys system, and you have to question a leaders ideals, however no matter how far your country falls you should never hate it.
Why not, a country is just a patch of land with different rules and sometimes weather than another one. If that place becomes crap why not give it the one finger salute and find somewhere better.