I'm a fairly conservative guy, but I am still flabergasted by people who think gay is a choice

[AtmaPhil]

I have trouble believing that being gay is a biological thing. If it was wouldn't that gene be gone by now ? since you know they're not going to have childs. I was under the impression that it was the result of a social context/choice of the person.

 

[Rainboq]

-snip-
I bring this up because my girlfriend just told me she is in a debate with a work friend who still thinks it is a choice.-snip-

Here's your problem, in Western society, its far easier for women to be open about their sexuality because being bi or homosexual makes them more masculine, and therefor its more acceptable.

So for women, its easier for it to be a choice than it is for men.

 

[Tarlane]

I did misread 'bible thumpers' up above as 'bible humpers' and thought we were getting into a whole new type of sexual preference.

More on topic though, I think you could have this same argument(and people have) about any aspect of 'Nature vs Nurture' and there can be good points for both sides. This aspect of it just always gets heated because our sexuality is so strongly tied to our feelings of who we are.

Someone above mentioned that heterosexuality is the default(which I thought was interesting because doesn't that mean he things your preference is set at birth, even if he was arguing its different for 'those gays') and I'm sure that most gay people just want to feel that they are normal rather than being ostracized. On the other hand, many of those who oppose homosexuality for religious reasons have just as big of an aspect of themselves tied in to making it be something wrong rather than simply being an alternate lifestyle because somehow it being wrong makes them and their beliefs right. Both sides feel they have so much at stake in proving themselves correct that its always going to be an emotional argument rather than the more logical debates people can have over other parts of the 'Was I born this way or did I become this way' issues.

I personally believe that there isn't any sort of conscious choice involved here, or at least it is only there in such a minuscule portion of the population as to be statistically insignificant. Most people would rather fit in than purposefully have a good portion of the world not accept you. I do believe though that things which happen, particularly during your formative years can have a strong effect on your interests later even if people are born with specific inclinations.

I am not just talking about something sexual(I don't believe that being molested 'turns you gay', though it certainly has a big impact on your sexual interest, gay or straight, and I can see a little boy who can't trust women after such an event finding more comfort with men as an adult) but everything down to the environment you are raised in, your families beliefs, your friends and the different aspects of culture you are exposed to all play a part in who you are.

I think that someone's predispositions at birth alter the way we respond to those stimuli though, for one person having their mom spank them as a child might lead to them finding the BDSM scene attractive as an adult while for another it might cause them to be scared of women. This is something you see in all manner of psychology, particularly involving our sexual instincts and I don't know why this would be any different.

I strongly believe that as long as everything in consensual people should be able to do what makes them happy and feels right in their lives without needing to feel judgement from others.
I do think that looking for the reasons we are the way we are is a good thing though, we all benefit when we better understand the human condition. Too many people on both sides view this search for understanding as to why we do the things we do as instead being a search for a 'cure'. Someone can seek to find the aspects of your life that make you like what you do without either thinking you are wrong or hoping they can somehow change your mind.

 

[Dexiro]

If I decided today that I wanted to be gay even without any physical attraction to other men, I could. Likewise, any homosexual person could choose to be heterosexual.

Being gay means you're attracted to the same sex. You can't just wake up one day and go "I think I'm gonna find men attractive today". Sure you could wake up and choose to have sex with another male, but that'd just make you a straight person having gay sex.

If you seriously think that you could start finding men attractive out of choice then you're probably just bisexual but naturally conditioned not to act on that attraction. It's worth considering.

 

[Valksy]

I have trouble believing that being gay is a biological thing. If it was wouldn't that gene be gone by now ? since you know they're not going to have childs. I was under the impression that it was the result of a social context/choice of the person.

Gay people can and do have children.

Straight parents - like mine, married for 44 years - do not guarantee straight kids. I can trace gay folks on both sides of my family tree - maybe it is recessive and those recessive genes came together in me? It is unlikely that there is a single "gay gene".

Other than genetics, it is suggested that there are in utero influences, something that happens before we are born, nnate within us but not necessarily genetic.

And may I remind people of this - There are still people in this world who are mutilated, imprisoned and murdered for being GLBTQ. Even knowing that their life is in danger, they are true to themselves.

 

[jamesworkshop]

It's been said before, but anyone who thinks it's a choice, should have to go take one in the butt for their team, so they can say they chose to do it, and can see how much fun it is, but now they're choosing never to do it again because they think it's wrong.

Surely if it's a choice, then all homophobes could choose to try gay sex just for a day.

Or, they could choose to stop being a hateful dumbass, I know which of those two options is easier, both rectally and psychologicaly.

But then they probably think being black is a choice too, and they're just doing it to annoy white people.

Actually the question of sexuality being inate or learned (nature/nuture even a combination) is not in itself homophobic or implys hate.

Since we don't actually know the answer, to believe that people choose to be gay does not say anywhere or imply that individual does not agree with or has a personal dislike of homosexuals.

The opposite postulation of inate or nuture does not then as a corollary suggest that they by default accept the possition that homosexuals have the same basic human rights that everybody else so self-evidently have.

 

[senorfatso]

And I have a gay friend who keeps being told by girls he's known over the years that if he'd stayed straight would've made a move. Which makes him curse and say he wish a bit that he hadn't chosen to be gay.

Your friend's dichotomy confuses me. If he's attracted to these girls as well as being 'gay', surely he is bisexual. Either that or he wanted the see these girls for ulterior asexual motives.

 

[Dexiro]

I have trouble believing that being gay is a biological thing. If it was wouldn't that gene be gone by now ? since you know they're not going to have childs. I was under the impression that it was the result of a social context/choice of the person.

My fading memory of high school biology tells me that genetics doesn't work like that, certainly not in this case anyway. And being gay can't be passed down from homosexual parents.
If anything it's probably just a common mutation.

 

[JoshGod]

Tell anyone who thinks it is a choice. Well prove it by being gay.

 

[moretimethansense]

You don't choose sexuality, you don't choose what you like.

So people dont, decide, that I think red is prettier than blue, I like pizza more than ham, I wana watch arthur instead of zoom...

its already like that?
before they ever know what those thing are...

this viewpoint does not make sense to me.
can someone cause it to make sense?

Think of a food you despise, now try liking it, you just fucking can't.

You may not know what you like till you try it, but you can't simply decide to (for example) enjoy being tied up, some people just do.

 

[Knusper]

Well it's not genetic, because I have heard of some identical twins where one is gay and the other one isn't, and so maybe it is choice.

 

[4173]

?

!

Being addicted to cocaine is a choice, you have to first start doing cocaine. Gays are attracted to their own gender before having sex.

Whether or not one becomes addicted to cocaine is a choice, but the potential for addiction is not.

(let me try to revise my previous statments; & to remove the misinterretation)

addiction is a state of mind, people can brainwash themselves...
one can choose to convince themselves that they are not addicted after they use and then become addicted to an addictive substance. They will most likely be addicted, regardless of what they feel and think.
but still have the power to not accept the addiction!

The behavior of man compared to animals is so different becuase of this one quality that we posess... the abillity to ignore primal desires, like addiction, and atraction, and rage!

I think addiction is better characterized as a state of being. One can control their responses to an addiction's compulsions, but not their underlying vulnerability.

 

[AtmaPhil]

I have trouble believing that being gay is a biological thing. If it was wouldn't that gene be gone by now ? since you know they're not going to have childs. I was under the impression that it was the result of a social context/choice of the person.

Gay people can and do have children.

Straight parents - like mine, married for 44 years - do not guarantee straight kids. I can trace gay folks on both sides of my family tree - maybe it is recessive and those recessive genes came together in me? It is unlikely that there is a single "gay gene".

Other than genetics, it is suggested that there are in utero influences, something that happens before we are born, nnate within us but not necessarily genetic.

And may I remind people of this - There are still people in this world who are mutilated, imprisoned and murdered for being GLBTQ. Even knowing that their life is in danger, they are true to themselves.

It could still be a choice if we're all born bisexual.

 

[capin Rob]

Does it matter ?

Either it is not a choice, in that case it has to be accepted and respected, because it can´t and shouldn´t be changed.
Or it is a choice, in that case it has to be accepted and respected, because every person on this planet has the right to make such a decision (seeing how it doesn´t really concern anyone but the person him/herself).

I always found this entire debate kind of weird.

Okay, so how about we find some middle ground: What if people aren't born gay, but it's not a choice either? I like to think that a person's sexuality is decided mostly by experiences in their formative years; but then again, I don't exactly have a psychiatry degree, so maybe I'm just talking out of my arse.

Yeah, I'm pretty much on board with these two, I believe being gay is not a choice, but we're not born into it. each event that happens to us shapes us as people, everything has some sort of affect on our prefrences

Even if it was a choice or we're born into it, Gays deserve equal rights.

 

[Valksy]

Has this been left in this thread yet:

 

[AtmaPhil]

Does it matter ?

Either it is not a choice, in that case it has to be accepted and respected, because it can´t and shouldn´t be changed.
Or it is a choice, in that case it has to be accepted and respected, because every person on this planet has the right to make such a decision (seeing how it doesn´t really concern anyone but the person him/herself).

I always found this entire debate kind of weird.

Okay, so how about we find some middle ground: What if people aren't born gay, but it's not a choice either? I like to think that a person's sexuality is decided mostly by experiences in their formative years; but then again, I don't exactly have a psychiatry degree, so maybe I'm just talking out of my arse.

Yeah, I'm pretty much on board with these two, I believe being gay is not a choice, but we're not born into it. each event that happens to us shapes us as people, everything has some sort of affect on our choices

Even if it was a choice or we're born into it, Gays deserve equal rights.

I'd hate to be living in the country that thinks they should deny gays their rights because it might a choice (<3 being canadian right now). It doesn't make it anymore damaging to society than if it was a gene or social events (which is not at all damaging).

 

[bdcjacko]

-snip-
I bring this up because my girlfriend just told me she is in a debate with a work friend who still thinks it is a choice.-snip-

Here's your problem, in Western society, its far easier for women to be open about their sexuality because being bi or homosexual makes them more masculine, and therefor its more acceptable.

So for women, its easier for it to be a choice than it is for men.

The work friend who thinks it is a choice is a dude. She does not think it is a choice.

 

[Rainboq]

-snip-
I bring this up because my girlfriend just told me she is in a debate with a work friend who still thinks it is a choice.-snip-

Here's your problem, in Western society, its far easier for women to be open about their sexuality because being bi or homosexual makes them more masculine, and therefor its more acceptable.

So for women, its easier for it to be a choice than it is for men.

The work friend who thinks it is a choice is a dude. She does not think it is a choice.

Well, here's the question, was he speaking about Lesbians but simply generalized his statement?

There is lots, and I mean lots, of films and porn that contain straight females "turning" Bi or Lesbian, this more than likely cultivated his perception to what it is.

 

[bdcjacko]

-snip-
I bring this up because my girlfriend just told me she is in a debate with a work friend who still thinks it is a choice.-snip-

Here's your problem, in Western society, its far easier for women to be open about their sexuality because being bi or homosexual makes them more masculine, and therefor its more acceptable.

So for women, its easier for it to be a choice than it is for men.

The work friend who thinks it is a choice is a dude. She does not think it is a choice.

Well, here's the question, was he speaking about Lesbians but simply generalized his statement?

There is lots, and I mean lots, of films and porn that contain straight females "turning" Bi or Lesbian, this more than likely cultivated his perception to what it is.

I think he was thinking about gay men.

I don't completely know.