I'm a vegan and I come in peace...

[GryffinDarkBreed]

I find that vegans and vegetarians in general are the most holier-than-thou, and hypocritical nitwits this side of the Scientology camp.

You might sit there and go "Animal rights! Waaaah! Don't eat meat and don't experiment on animals!"...

Until your very survival depends on it. Your kidney fails and suddenly you need dialysis, will you deny the doctor putting in a much larger cow vein into your body so they can safely connect the machines filtering your blood for you? Are you going to deny artificial heart valves that were developed using animal experimentation after you have a heart attack? If you suddenly develop Diabetes, are you going to reject Insulin because it's developed using canine blood?

Didn't think so. Sod off.

 

[boyvirgo666]

Last time I checked, animals aren't intelligent. There's no reason why we shouldn't eat them.

Darwin's law, Survival of the fittest. I am smarter than any animal. So i eat them. Only reason i dont eat dumb people is because they taste terrible and the marbling is bad.

 

[ReinWeisserRitter]

I find that vegans and vegetarians in general are the most holier-than-thou, and hypocritical nitwits this side of the Scientology camp.

You might sit there and go "Animal rights! Waaaah! Don't eat meat and don't experiment on animals!"...

Until your very survival depends on it. Your kidney fails and suddenly you need dialysis, will you deny the doctor putting in a much larger cow vein into your body so they can safely connect the machines filtering your blood for you? Are you going to deny artificial heart valves that were developed using animal experimentation after you have a heart attack? If you suddenly develop Diabetes, are you going to reject Insulin because it's developed using canine blood?

Didn't think so. Sod off.

The "it's dumber than me so I should be allowed to do what I want with it" argument does prove there are imbeciles on both sides, though.

 

[Bagk Nakh]

"It is very, very VERY easy to just eat a slab of meat in front of you, and not care. But Vegetarians actually take the time to consider where that steak came from. The basic idea here is this: The vegetarians intelligence didn't just appear because they don't eat meat, It's from the mindset they possessed which made them realize where that steak came from "

So what you're saying is, vegetarians are smarter because they 'realize' that steak comes from cows? And what, everyone else just thinks that farmer brown and his cows make it in their magical workshop like santa and his fucking elves? Yeah... No, not buying it.

 

[maninahat]

That's true, but we are not animals.

yes we are. we are animals, we are just the most advanced species of animals on the planet.

and on the topic of killing animals, if thats the case, of being omnivores, then why don´t animals like small cats live strictly off of catnip? do you think im going to punish my cat if he comes home with a mouse in his mouth.

it´s survival of the fittest. if the animal kingdom can´t keep up with us, they will have to evolve and adapt. do you think lions would start feeling bad for us if they hunted us and ate us? No.

Animals eat other animals, and thats exactly what we are. there´s no reason we should respect and not eat animals that would do the exact same to us given the chance.

You probably missed the point he made about humans being capable of choosing not to eat meat, a moral choice which appears to beyond most animals. So no, the OP isn't blaming animals for eating meat (they are apparently not capable of knowing any reason why they shouldn't), but he blames us for continuing to eat meat even when (unlike all animals) we have the luxury of choosing not to. We are, as you say, animals. But unlike other animals, we aren't starving and we can easily remove meat from our diets. In fact, our choice to eat meat is often less efficient than vegetarianism, due to the inevitable costs of feeding and maintaining livestock (you need room for corn or pastures ,just to feed the cows - room which could have just been used for crops, without the cow business).

 

[maninahat]

"It is very, very VERY easy to just eat a slab of meat in front of you, and not care. But Vegetarians actually take the time to consider where that steak came from. The basic idea here is this: The vegetarians intelligence didn't just appear because they don't eat meat, It's from the mindset they possessed which made them realize where that steak came from "

So what you're saying is, vegetarians are smarter because they 'realize' that steak comes from cows? And what, everyone else just thinks that farmer brown and his cows make it in their magical workshop like santa and his fucking elves? Yeah... No, not buying it.

No, he's saying that vegetarians take the time to weigh up the costs of getting that steak; they come to the rational decision that it isn't worth the added cost of producing beef, or the slaughter of the animal that produced it. Most people don't take that time to make such considerations. All vegetarians do (otherwise, they wouldn't have chosen to become one).

 

[RoBi3.0]

Maybe just maybe we don't need to eat meat every meal and we defiantly should cut back on the red meat, that shit isn't that great for you anyhow.

Not true in the least. I have yet to see a credible, well conducted study make a case for eating red meat being harmful. Hell, the results of Ancel Keys original study (the Seven Countries Study) showing a link between consumption of saturated fat (and meat by extension) and heart disease which got the entire low fat diet movement rolling decades ago was fudged so he could show a correlation where his full and complete data showed none existed.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL........ I honestly can't tell if you are joking. I mean do you read every medical study front to back published on the subject of the effect of saturated fat on the human body. If you don't then you really need to stop talking.

You know who does however? The American Heart Association, they recommend diets low in saturated fats because they lead to increased blood cholesterol. Dietary Cholesterol something also found in red meat also increases blood Cholesterol.

Yep, a group of well respect Professionals vs. guy on internet trying to prove a point. I am honestly torn as to who to believe.

Actually, as long as you're eating it in moderation (and you're not my dad, who is allergic to it), it is pretty good for you, it's a good source of iron, and also is delicious. Moderation, man. That's pretty much the secret to everything.

Yep that is pretty much what I was saying.

 

[Orinon]

"It is very, very VERY easy to just eat a slab of meat in front of you, and not care. But Vegetarians actually take the time to consider where that steak came from. The basic idea here is this: The vegetarians intelligence didn't just appear because they don't eat meat, It's from the mindset they possessed which made them realize where that steak came from "

So what you're saying is, vegetarians are smarter because they 'realize' that steak comes from cows? And what, everyone else just thinks that farmer brown and his cows make it in their magical workshop like santa and his fucking elves? Yeah... No, not buying it.

No, but the vegetarians actually care where it came from
most people see the steak and say `yep from a cow, not gonna think any more on it.`

 

[NiPah]

Hi forum!
snip

Plants are living organisms too, when you go down the slippery slope of what is and is not morally right to kill in order to feed ourselves you can never objectively say what is and what is not right to kill.

Why is it taboo to eat the flesh of a dead human? They are no longer living, we simply believe it is wrong to eat human flesh even after death. Why is it more or less wrong to eat plant flesh vs animal flesh? These are questions that go to our own systems of morals, morals don't exist except for in our own minds and when we're gone they will no longer exist.

To answer your question I eat meat because it is a cheaper source of food then plants, the killing of an animal will have little effect on the human race as a whole.

 

[maninahat]

I try and buy free range meats w/out hormones. Aside from that I eat meat with no regrets.

It's already been scientifically proven that plants react to light, sound and are able to feel, just because they don't scream out when you uproot, cut, and steam them doesn't mean they don't feel pain.

Besides the animals already dead, seems like it'd be disrespectful to the animal not to eat it.

Plants don't feel pain. They react to light and gravity through automatic chemical processes and hormones called "auxins". They do not have a system of pain receptors, neurons or a brain, so they cannot feel pain or exhibit the mental functions required to suffer. If you think about it from a scientific perspective - what benefit is pain to an organism that can't physically move to prevent it? Pain sensations exist as a means of telling the body to avoid sources of pain (which damage the body) - if the plant can't move away from pain stimuli, pain is a useless adaptation.

As for the dead animals - they are only slaughtered because of a demand for them. If no one ate meat, there would be no beef farmers providing you with beef.

 

[John Stolte]

Humans have incisors and canines for a reason and it isn't to eat salad. Mind you we human populace as a whole should cut back on how much meat we eat, but remember, moderation is better then zealation and we should eat a little bit of everything to get appropriate nutrients, not make it harder by cutting out large chunks of our "normal" diets and trying to componsate with other foods that only have a fraction of what meat could offer.

 

[anian]

You know, you could probably not eat meat and be relatively fine, but then again same thing could be said about walking without shoes on all the time, yet not many vegans/vegetarians walking barefoot...just an observation.

Also this started with a provocative post, where the person states that it doesn't mind people eating meat, but that they're mean because they do it. That right there is a very passive aggressive statement.

I try to eat as healthy as I can and every food group in moderation, I like to try new dishes and try to respect if others don't agree with eating meat, but I don't go around saying people are mean because they eat stuff that produces oxygen, while I eat creatures that spend it, now do I?

 

[Treblaine]

Hi forum!

After watching MovieBob's recent Big Picture episode on the PeTA/Super Mario controversy, I'm curious about people's stance on animal rights here. What I found curious is that Bob asserted he supports animal rights, in that he abstains from products like fur and boycotts companies that test on animals. On the other hand though, eating animals does not seem to be problematic for him.

Do YOU find it problematic to be transported in an car? Heat your home with gas or oil, or use electricity from gas/oil, or wear clothes made from the petrochemical industry? Like Nylon or polyester?

Because all those come from Crude oil which is mainly dead sea creatures, NOT PLANKTON, they particularly have to be animal residue with a significant proportion from shellfish as a source of calcium carbonite. Even if there was just a trace, aren't you benefiting from the death of animals?

Really, Using crude-oil based products is not an ethical problem, no more than eating animals as food. At the very least, it is just as bad as drinking cows milk or eating chicken's eggs in terms of tenuous and tangential relationship to animal suffering. I worked in a milking parlour and have fed chickens for eggs, there is nothing inherently cruel about either.

Vegans who object to milk and egg just seem like city slickers who have never worked a day in their life on somewhere like a farm. Yeah, there are some crazy farmers who illogically abuse their animals, and they suffer for that. There are some (very few) Muslims who go crazy and commit terrorist atrocities, but any REASONABLE person would know they are such an extreme minority they are no reason to reject all Muslims.

Yeah, I'm comparing Vegans with extreme-right-wing who scapegoat Islam. Contrast between right/left of political spectrum I know is an illusion and arbitrary.

EDIT: To clarify my apparent source of annoyance, I can cook for vegetarians. I can easily make a vegetarian option but a vegan option is just a step too bloody far: no milk, no cheese, no cream, no eggs, no mayonnaise = no dinner I can respect someone not wanting to have an animal killed for them but ALL COWS DO is make milk... for you... happily all year round. Same with chickens. There is no cruelty argument, it is pure arbitrary which I would tolerate except for the burden it puts on others! Ghandi himself drank milk!

 

[Blow_Pop]

That's true, but we are not animals.

yes we are. we are animals, we are just the most advanced species of animals on the planet.

and on the topic of killing animals, if thats the case, of being omnivores, then why don´t animals like small cats live strictly off of catnip? do you think im going to punish my cat if he comes home with a mouse in his mouth.

it´s survival of the fittest. if the animal kingdom can´t keep up with us, they will have to evolve and adapt. do you think lions would start feeling bad for us if they hunted us and ate us? No.

Animals eat other animals, and thats exactly what we are. there´s no reason we should respect and not eat animals that would do the exact same to us given the chance.

This sums up my opinion right here. Also I find animals to be very tasty. That being said if I had to kill and cook my own animal to eat you can be damn sure I would. I'm one of those who believes that if you are willing to eat it you should be willing to kill it, skin it, and then cook it.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Paraphrased: "I don't mean to call anybody a bad person but I am going to call you all bad people now."

Look dude, I get your message but you should at least realize what you are going to be saying and what exactly it means. If you are going to be hypocritical with you opening statement, perhaps you should skip the hypocrisy and have the conviction to call us bastards instead of saying you won't call us bastards and then call us unethical bastards.

Now I could get into the number of creatures murdered for your salad, IE, farming or more specifically the harvest. To create your meal, hundreds of insects, rodents, reptiles, and other little beasties have to die. They either starve, get killed by poison, or get tilled into pieces by the machines that harvest the crops. This isn't even counting the space taken up for the infrastructure so you can type this out on the computer. Roads, Power Lines, Space for your home, metal for the creation of this infrastructure, the tools you use, all of it has a price in blood. Yet, I don't hear your protest that you're using a computer.

Hell, the use of your computer is even less ethical if you really think about it. You're dicking around online at the cost of another creature's life. At least I get a meal of my meat. It isn't wasted and the species will definitely survive because we want to keep eating. Oh and if you think you can turn this back on me about my use of computers, remember that I am not the one talking about ethics of animals dying for what I want or need.

You're also ignoring the repercussions of everybody suddenly going vegan. Thousands of cows, pigs, and chickens suddenly have no place to exist and thus must be removed, IE killed. They aren't going to a happy place to live out eternity. They take up space and require food to survive. They also become a non-resource. Pretty much, your end game boils down to situation in which an entire population and a few species are killed off, we have less food, and we don't actually move ahead.

All because you feel that your way is more ethical. And this is what really bugs me about this kind of thread. Not a single one of you has ever given an actual plan for what would happen with the animals, where they would go, who would pay to feed them, and why we should feed them? You have little to no actual plan but you want to call us unethical...

 

[Elf Defiler Korgan]

First poster, you, like many others, are too hung up about food buddy. You can go vegan of course, and you can also get f****d by it. I've seen some unhealthy vegans, sickly agitated creatures that slowly seem to become green hags filled with hate for almost everyone else, and not so healthy-looking to boot. I eat more dairy than meat, and I have good skin, fast growing hair, clear eyes. With some exercise, I get the most out of what I eat, and I know it is required to sustain me. Yes, after a lot of training, I do need the eggs, the milk the meat.

So yeah, some can go vegan, but this can lead to the scrawny hipster look. I'm also not interested in bracketing off things I can't eat, I am here to enjoy this life and I love to try new cuisine from different cultures. Just came back from Singapore and Malaysia recently. The food was excellent. Veganism and its acceptance is a first world problem, many Asian cultures just don't give a shit. They love their food, and have a healthly view of and culture of eating, even if certain meals aren't that good for you, if eaten all the time. Good on them, I agree with embracing food, not restricting it and attacking others over food.

Family has also been involved in the meat industry, and therefore I know a bit about it, and can't get behind the message that the meat industry is full of evil people--which vegans peddle in my experience.

Have a good one.

 

[Vivi22]

You know who does however? The American Heart Association, they recommend diets low in saturated fats because they lead to increased blood cholesterol. Dietary Cholesterol something also found in red meat also increases blood Cholesterol.

Yep, a group of well respect Professionals vs. guy on internet trying to prove a point. I am honestly torn as to who to believe.

Appeals to authority are a weak argument, but not unexpected from someone who can't be bothered to do their own research and try and actually think for themselves. So called experts can certainly never be wrong about anything anyway right?

Forget the fact that the USDA decided a long time ago to push low fat, high carb diets as a way to encourage good health, despite experts telling the govern McGovern Commission at the time that the jury was still out on fat causing heart disease. Not to mention that the same US government pushing unfounded dietary standards for 40+ years also gives out a large amount of grant money that goes into nutritional research. Grant money that you won't get if your conclusions don't support their standards.

And of course, the American Heart Association is completely objective. It's not like they don't make millions from licensing their heart check mark logo that they license to companies to plaster on their food products. A logo which would be absolutely worthless if they ever did an about face and admitted they got some things wrong.

 

[Angus565]

uh-oh, if things get out of hand on this thread we may need the vegan police...

Spoiler