I'm a vegan and I come in peace...

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O maestre

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Nov 19, 2008
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say what you like humans are animals, we are even defined as an apex predator... in every single environment on the planet. our species would not be here if we were not aggressive carnivores, it is the reason we are the only humanoids left, we killed or out hunted our competition. there is something to be said about the correlation between the intelligence of predators and prey, some say this is the cause of the main intelligence difference between us and other primates. but all of this is ancient evolutionary biology, and i concede that it is merely a foundation for our current state.

(a grizzly bear is also an omnivore and an apex predator, yet they prefer meat.)

personally i cannot see a reason to stop eating meat, i enjoy it. animals are being specifically bred for consumption, and until we can grow meat artificially its still going to be consumed.
the only viable argument against the consumption of meat is the pollution ít causes. that consequence has a direct affect on me and my potential descendants, so naturally it worries me.

finally, there is so much human suffering in the world, that it would be down right delusional and obnoxious of me to put other animals suffering, before that of my own species. fact is until we can learn to care for each other there is no chance in hell that we are going to start collectively try to take care of the other inhabitants of this planet.
 

cthulhumythos

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Aug 28, 2009
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my appetite is more important than an animal's life. unless it's a domesticated household pet, because those are adorable and i don't think 'food' when i see one.

thats not exactly an argument, and more of an assertion of opinion, but at least i didn't pull out faux facts i know very little about.
 

Kahohess

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Sep 12, 2011
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Fanta Grape said:
I'm a vegan and I have a few things to say:

1. My favourite food is Korean barbecue.
2. There's nothing wrong with eating meat.
3. Eating meat is a great way to lead to a healthy diet.
4. I would never force eating meat onto someone else.
5. I'm vegan because every so often, this happens ...

1. A good Kimchi is great
2. I could die for a good tartare !
3. Too much Mushrooms can gives you gout
4. Ask nicely instead.
5. Remembers me that with christmas next month it'll be time for some good Foie Gras !
 

Robert Ewing

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Mar 2, 2011
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Well, I think that we should keep our ability to use animals, why you ask?

Well, I absolutely HATE when we apply strictly HUMAN qualities to animals. For example, there was a massive scandal about the oppressive conditions at an American chicken coup, there was 'severe overcrowding' as millions of chickens fought for space.

Now... The media, and everyone else, seemed to think that chickens thought like people, and didn't actually like the cramped oppressive positions. Newsflash, chickens don't fucking care that they are cramped, I've worked on a farm with livestock before, and I can tell you now that they love the cramped spaces, it really helps socially, and they enjoy the comfort.

But no, just because if you replaced the chickens with people, it would be horrific. Animals aren't people! They don't care about most of the things we do to them, and probably wouldn't do that well in the wild anyway. They'd probably cause a lot more problems in the wild, because they've been domesticated over a period of thousands of years!

Now of course animals feel pain, that's a given... And I'm against needless animal testing and so on, because anything that is causing the animal genuine and needless pain is bad in my eyes...

But I hate that we think that an animal feels exactly how a human does. They don't, they don't have intense philosophical debates about the nature and futility of their own existence, they just want to eat, sleep, defecate, and reproduce. If the conditions in which livestock is kept at a good level, and what they require, everything will be fine. Because you obviously don't put a cow in a 6x9 cell...
 

Frostbyte666

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Nov 27, 2010
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Err. you do know that being an omnivore doesn't mean that we can eat either or, it means we need to eat both for a balanced diet. The reason we have incisors is to cut and tear meat and the other type(forgotten the name) is to chew and grind down veg. We have eyes in the front of our head so we have depth perception. This vastly improves our hunting abilities of animals. Whereas herbivores usually have eyes at the side of their head so they have a greater field of view. Also if you want to eat veg only that means maybe you should sacrifice all progress humanity has made from an animal with instincts to a sentient being of intelligence. The reason...meat allowed our brains to develop because it contains more potential energy than plants, its why a lot of herbivores spend a lot of time in the day eating rather than doing other things like devloping culture...writing etc.
Now I'm not trying to be insulting but it is a case of there is a reason why we should eat meat to be healthy. I am friends with a few vegetarians but they eat veggies instead of meat not because of animal treatment but because they don't like the taste of it...fair enough. Also I hate the vegans/vegetarians who have no problem eating fish when I point out to them that fish are animals and that they are the animals which have the most unethical treatment since to kill them they are fished out the water then slowly asphexiate(sp?) on a ships deck.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Aug 22, 2011
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Cadmium Magenta said:
So why do we think it's okay to deprive an entire species of their liberty and kill them for their flesh?

To sum it up: Just because we *can* eat anything, doesn't necessarily mean that we *should*.

What do you think? I'm very curious to know.
Hey there. While I know my way around Tofu, I mostly stick to the eat anything motto, and I very much enjoy preparing and eating meat. With a side of veggies, and a very moderate amount of carbs. I love a little bit of butter in my olive oil. It goes so well with anything from carrots to noodles to proper meat. Silky shine, great taste, multiplies any and all sugar, salt or spice added.

I like things "real", and some of the more perverted ideas, to me, would include any industrially prepared food, including soy or quorn based meat-look-and-taste-alikes. Or Jellybeans tasting like bacon. That just seems wrong to me.

I enjoy grinding and shredding my soy bean curd to make veggie/vegan tasty dishes that would otherwise be based on, say, crumbled ground meat, and it really is just as good as with meat, all it takes is more spices, herbs, sauces or a marinade, and usually more time for preparation. It's a nice element within an all-embracing cuisine, but I would never want to limit myself to vegan cooking only, because I really do love my eggs, my meat, my milk, my cheese and my bacon. Yes, I do love my planet, too, but I really think most of the theories we've been fed with lately are misanthropical loony bin material.

Yes, I am a hunting-killing-gathering type of person. I really do enjoy doing things myself and sharing the knowledge, so even kids - or especially kids - know the difference between biting into self-made jerky or some cheaply bought candy crap. I like to trick them, at times, and I make them eat turnips and carrots and parsnips when they think they are munching on some unhealthy sweet treat. Kids make you reconsider simple things, like spinach or Brussels sprouts.

We entertain our own very veggie, very non-flowery garden, and to be honest - just between you and me now: Deep down in my core I am genuinely saddened when snails "kill" some salad or destroy some other crops. When a cherished and, yes, beloved apple tree falls sick we treat it and cure it and help it as much as we can. Not just because we want them apples. When it gets better, it's happy time for all, yet still we don't feel like crafting our own loincloths and falling back to troglodyte pagan times. I can easily kill dozens of snails to protect the plants, but I would never use poison, because I'd fear I'd poison the soil, the plants, the cats, the dogs, the foxes and crows and everything else, including us silly humans. And we can't have that, now, can we. The lesser of two evils does seem like a decent approach to me.

When we go fish or hunt, we go out to obtain food in a seemingly very roundabout fashion. We go out, we stand around, we sit around, we sneak and we run and we hide and we wait some more. The shot - most of the time it is but a single shot - still always feels like sin, for it disrupts the silence of nature, the great outdoors in which we always feel to be but guests. But as long as we do it properly, we do help nature keep balance. We all enjoy eating meat, otherwise it would often be difficult or detrimental to our network of relationships.

Sometimes, for example for our popular Sushi-sessions, I offer veggie-only plates for picky guests. This allows for culturally-handicapped folks (especially of the religious kind) to stay away from pork, cow or any meat at all. For most religious folks, this is good enough. Others, especially of the oft-cited pseudo-religious (but usually openly non-religious) veggie/vegan preachers, invade our space, and they will very rarely become regular guests, because those that do have a tendency to annoy do so with quite a punch, a lot of words, and an ego that could wipe out small towns were it to ever explode.

We enjoy the company of cats, dogs, snakes, skinks, scorpions, spiders, cockroaches and whatnot. Some we keep and feed because we feel good having them around, seeing them eat and drink and grow and make (and have) babies. Others we keep because we use them to feed the other animals.

So, the cockroaches would probably be the "lowest" creatures in the bunch. They haven't felt like evolving much for hundreds of millions of years. We feed them oats, fresh fruit, potato husks, veggie material and protein-rich pellets of bird or cat or dog food - all as natural as possible. If left to their own devices, these magnificent cockroach critters would start munching away on the wood material inside the boxes we made their homes. They would eat all the paper and cardboard and whatnot, because they can. Some would very quickly turn on their fellow roaches, nibbling on their antennae, legs, heads and whatnot. Those without heads will find it impossible to eat, bummer that. Bigger ones would eat all the smaller ones. They would keep themselves alive by thinning out their population. It's OK for roaches to do that, but we wouldn't want to witness anything like that in cats, dogs or humans. We humans have a brain that is far too big to allow for anything stupid or evil, yet we've become quite elaborate in making life harsh for ourselves and/or others, and we are masters a making things complicated.

I might sometimes mix up vegetarian and vegan - don't take that too personal. In my ignorance, I consider them both to be exlusive and oftentimes very narrow-minded pseudo-elitarian world views, really. The notions that brought veganism to be seem to meanwhile invade the scientific space, just as religious mumbo jumbo invades the supermarket packaged meat aisles. The further away from nature we are, the easier it is to become antisocial, and pests to each other.

Killing an animal is messy. Everyone who enjoys meat should know what it looks and smells like. But, if done properly and with respect, it is just part of us being human. If you have a snake for thirty years, you don't want it to get hurt by an overly aggressive rat. Eyes don't grow back.

Some people claim to have been traumatized when they first - accidentally or otherwise - witnessed an animal getting slaughtered. I think it's not the act of turning the creature into meat that's bad for kids, but the lack of shared knowledge, the lack of actively transferring knowledge to the little ones that helps them understand the world around them and, ideally, themselves.

One lady in our neighbourhood fed her dog in a vegetarian, if not vegan manner, with lots of simple recipes (boiled rice) and some very odd ways of delivering non-animal proteins. The dog grew normally, a bit too fat even in the end. It smelled funny and eventually developed bone cancer, not even four years old.

Sure, our dogs do enjoy pasta and all the treats we let them have (or to which they sneakily help themselves to), but wanting to restrict a dog to a vegetarian or even vegan diet should be considered a crime, and raising kids on vegan diets just turned out to be not the smartest idea. If it was all peachy, your overly ethical approach to pondering on food would, in my eyes, be justified. However, it is not. Yes, I am entertaining relationships to, say, Sikhs, and their veggie-only cooking has influenced my handling of veggies, cardamom and gram flour. Still, I've incorporated their ways into my cooking, and I've expanded my horizon, because I can and because I want to .
 

andeve3

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Jul 14, 2010
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AndyFromMonday said:
You never gave a reason why animals shouldn't be eaten.
Except i did. I would suggest you read my post, i am not going to rephrase it.
 

Khada

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Jan 8, 2009
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AndyFromMonday said:
Khada said:
You actually think animals experience emotion the same way we do? That's cute.
Quote the line where I said that animals experience emotions in the same manner as humans.

Don't twist my words... You know, for a 35 year old, you haven't gotten very far. Out of curiosity, what's your profession?
 

Haukur Isleifsson

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Jun 2, 2010
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I don't think that vegetarianism or vegan-ism are viable for the entirety of the human race. And most definitely has not been for most of human history. For the longest part of it's history my home country has only been inhabitable by humans because the ate fish and lamb. Almost nothing grows here that humans can reasonable eat. And the same is true of many places.

It's only in the last century or so that we have been able to import grains and such. And of two bad options I would rather eat a sheep that has grown up near me than grain that was grown hundreds of miles away. Taking into account the environmental disruption of such mass transportation I think that carnivore-ism is well justifiable for at lest people in my position.
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Cadmium Magenta said:
We are not lions or sharks. Lions or sharks cannot choose *not* to eat meat because they are natural carnivores and couldn't survive on a herbivorous diet.

I very much doubt any animal could not survive on a herbivorous diet. It's just nutritionists don't tend to research that kind of stuff about animals, only humans. I wonder - if we discovered that you can make a certain carnivorous animal survive on plants alone, would you consider it animal abuse to deny that animal their natural food and make it live on a herbivorous diet? How do you think the animal itself would feel about that?

Moreover, why do you consider animals over plants? I mean they're both living things and we kill both in order to feed ourselves (unless you think we can survive on fruit alone?), so where's the difference in your opinion? If you view it wrong to kill an animal for food, why do you not view it wrong to kill a plant for it? I know it seems silly, but honestly, I view both as potential food, so I see no difference, but for someone talking morals of killing for sustenance, I wonder, where it is you draw the line?

If it's the pain...


No but seriously, if it's the pain, it's not eating animals you have a problem with, it's killing them inhumanely and there we can agree, but you and I both know we can kill an animal and have it feel no pain in the process. So what makes that difference for you? Or do you simply view plants as something expendable, while not thinking the same of animals?

As far as my personal view goes, I just don't care. I don't mean that in a "oh yeah, I can go to a meat factory and not lose my lunch at the sight of way things are done", but it's just not something I think about or feel guilty over. Animals eat other animals and like it or not, we ARE animals. We might be smart enough to think of an alternative, but that's what it is, an alternative, not necessarily something we all have to do.

And one more important thing - do you really think the whole world could survive on nothing but plants? I'm not an expert here, but as far as I'm aware, like with any other predator>game relation, hunting keeps certain species in check. The same way a balance would be thrown off if you killed a species of predators in the area, resulting in an overpopulation of animals it hunted, the same way humans not hunting anymore would mess up that balance too.

Furthermore, last I checked, the world supplies of stuff like corn weren't that great. We're starting to use genetically mutated plants in order to feed ourselves and right now, we're only doing it with the current (low) percentage of vegeterians/vegans. What do you think would happen if the entire world ate nothing but plants? We would have to make ridiculous amounts of plants, which would be cause for further genetic manipulation nonsense, which I for one don't view as either good or healthy and certainly not as healthy as our current diet.
 

TheHappo

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Oct 27, 2009
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We're animals, every living thing lives off another in some way or another. It's just how nature works. I CAN eat meat, and unless some higher power materializes and tells me that I objectively shouldn't, I will. Besides:

'If a cow ever got the chance, he'd eat you and everyone you care about'.
 

Don Savik

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Aug 27, 2011
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Cadmium Magenta said:
Hey I like animals too, but I am I above ending their life for my consumption? Hell no. As sad as it sounds, but if I kill an animal humanely to eat it......who cares? Honestly. Who. Cares. Nobody thats who. It doesn't make the world a worse place, it doesn't stain my conscience, it doesn't have any effect on anything whatsoever. A stance of "all killing is wrong" is naive and silly.

And yes we could all eat plants, but rewiring everyone's taste buds over generations to eat vegetables that most find just absolutely disgusting is not practical. And then you have to find easy to obtain in mass quantities, a protein supplement. Animals, honesty are more practical in every sense, and much cheaper.

And we are animals. Homosapiens. The most intelligent primate around. Mammals we are. This is not debatable. Read any biology textbook anywhere for clarification.

And as for morals. Lesser intelligent animals are purely instinctual and do not base their actions on a moral code, so as sad as it sounds, they don't know/care that we are killing them. Now if they were more self aware then yes this would be a problem, but lets be reasonable here, its something that would benefit nobody if we all went vegan. I don't have a problem with people being vegans are vegetarians, but saying the entire world shouldn't consume meat because you get sad about the little piggies just drives me up the wall.