I'm beginning to hate Valve.

[Jacco]

I know that's akin to sacrilege among gamers, but I was just playing Half-Life and it occurred to me that it has been 5 years since Episode 2 came out. 5 years. The entire thing they said about releasing them in episodic format was so that we wouldn't have to wait so long. Well that was fucking bullshit.

And that's what gets me. Valve blatantly lies about their plans, stays all secret and then someone thinks because they are Valve it is all okay to treat their fans like shit. And yet people eat it up and defend them. "Oh, that's just how Valve does things," people say. "They're probably waiting for the next engine/console/big gaming thing to be ready." "Valve never releases 3's of their games"

We don't take that shit from other companies. This whole fiasco with Bioware and Mass Effect and more recently Gearbox and Aliens proves that. So what makes it okay for Valve? How is blatantly lying about their plans for a game any different from releasing bullshit like ACM?

I don't get it. I don't think it would be so much of an issue if they would just communicate and say they were not interested in making it right now or that they were indeed waiting for the technology to catch up with the vision. But nope. They're content to treat us all like shit and then people defend them tooth an nail.

What do you think? Agree? Disagree?

Edit:

I love this. Most people here are missing the point of my post, whether intentionally or not. I am not "entitled" or "have problems."

My issue with them is not that I feel entitled to HL3. I don't give a shit about HL3 anymore. My problem, which I apparently failed to make clear, is that they keep everyone in the dark and sit on their high chair without communicating their plans or anything. It's the air of superiority and--frankly entitlement-- coming from them that pisses me off and the blind defense of their practices shown here. Not the fact that they haven't released it.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

I hardly think taking the time to make a well-polished, mostly bug-free product constitutes treating their customers like shit. Valve never actually set a release date for Episode 3, so they weren't lying. They realised that the episodic format isn't the best way to deal with the Half-Life series. Episode 2 was excellent, but Episode 1 was mostly meh.

 

[DaKiller]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

 

[BrotherRool]

So I'm a big Valve cautionary, but I think anything more extreme than cautious approval is probably going to far.

For your particular example, you cannot fix that problem without breaking Valve as a company. The advantage of organisation structures like EA is they can have very definite release schedules and make sure the sequel factory churns out at a satisfying case.

The disadvantage is that you see less experimentation and a less wide variety of games. But these things are exclusive. Valve would have to have an entirely different, more corporate less flexible structure to produce games to any sort of plan. Their mistake was in letting people think they had a plan in the first place. Games get made in Valve because people are passionate about making them. But you can't force people to be passionate about something. They either make what they like or you get them to knuckle down making something that they don't.

Whereas Gearbox don't have that excuse. They've got a normally corporate structure and it's not functioning correctly and in fact they were being underhanded and screwing people over for the sake of Borderlands 2. The difference is, this is Valve functioning correctly., it just isn't designed to produce that sort of mass manufacturing.


Saying that, it is weird that you give a bunch of creative people complete freedom to make whatever they want and yet they have only one time in their history used that to create a new IP. I'm always curious about why that happened

 

[Daft Time]

I really should leave it there, but I wont.

And that's what gets me. Valve blatantly lies about their plans, stays all secret and then someone thinks because they are Valve it is all okay to treat their fans like shit.

To "blatantly lie" they must first make a statement which is obviously false. As far as I can remember, they haven't done this yet, ergo, they have nothing that has to be forgiven. Not releasing a game does not mean Valve is treating their customers poorly. Yes, customers have not had their demand supplied, but they haven't been lied to. In fact, Valve actually treats it's customers quite well. When it releases it's own games they are relatively bug free, they do not charge exorbitant amounts of money for content, do not participate in many of the questionable business practices of their rivals and treat their customers with respect.

There is a case to be made against Valve, but this is not it. I have quite a few problems with Valve, but not releasing Half-Life 3 yet - or ever, I suppose - does not mean they are "getting away with shit".

 

[Jacco]

To "blatantly lie" they must first make a statement which is obviously false. As far as I can remember, they haven't done this yet, ergo, they have nothing that has to be forgiven. Not releasing a game does not mean Valve is treating their customers poorly. Yes, customers have not had their demand supplied, but they haven't been lied to. In fact, Valve actually treats it's customers quite well. When it releases it's own games they are relatively bug free, they do not charge exorbitant amounts of money for content, do not participate in many of the questionable business practices of their rivals and treat their customers with respect.

There is a case to be made against Valve, but this is not it. I have quite a few problems with Valve, but not releasing Half-Life 3 yet - or ever, I suppose - does not mean they are "getting away with shit".

Yes, it is this thread again. And let me just make clear that I'm talking about their development department as I have no experience with the other things they do like Steam.

And I suppose "blatantly" is a bit harsh. But they did specifically state that they would release Half-Life 3 in episodes 1-2 years apart so that we wouldn't have to wait so long for it to come out. That was a big deal when they said it. And now it's been five. So while not technically lying, it's just as bad. They purposfully built up expectations and did not follow through. That's exactly what Gearbox did with ACM.

 

[Jacco]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

 

[Wyes]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

But you're making the assumption it's all intentional. Maybe Bioware 'owed' us a good ending, but they tried to deliver that - they just missed the mark. They didn't sit down and think 'Hey you know what? Let's piss off the entire gaming world!'.

Similarly, Valve is not going 'Hey let's build up hype for HL3 and then never ever ever make it!' After the release of Episode 2 they never hyped HL3. I suspect part of the reason they're so tight-lipped about it is to avoid this kind of backlash from building up expectations.

 

[Daft Time]

Yes, it is this thread again. And let me just make clear that I'm talking about their development department as I have no experience with the other things they do like Steam.

And I suppose "blatantly" is a bit harsh. But they did specifically state that they would release Half-Life 3 in episodes 1-2 years apart so that we wouldn't have to wait so long for it to come out. That was a big deal when they said it. And now it's been five. So while not technically lying, it's just as bad. They purposfully built up expectations and did not follow through. That's exactly what Gearbox did with ACM.

...so not only did they not lie in the slightest, but they admitted that Half-Life 3 was a long way off and staggered the releases of their episodic content to tide of their consumers? Oh, what horror! Obviously this is comparable too all the bad business practices you compared the delay of Half-Life 3 to.

Seriously?

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

No, you've failed to see the problem with the ending of Mass Effect 3. The problem was they actually lied during their marketing about the content of their ending. Whether or not the ending was "bad" is a separate issue entirely, and subjective at best. As poor as the critical reaction to the ending was, the problem people had with the company itself was the false advertising.

Try not to confuse the issues.

 

[Jacco]

But you're making the assumption it's all intentional. Maybe Bioware 'owed' us a good ending, but they tried to deliver that - they just missed the mark. They didn't sit down and think 'Hey you know what? Let's piss off the entire gaming world!'.

Similarly, Valve is not going 'Hey let's build up hype for HL3 and then never ever ever make it!' After the release of Episode 2 they never hyped HL3. I suspect part of the reason they're so tight-lipped about it is to avoid this kind of backlash from building up expectations.

Whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant. It happened. How they handle what happened is the real test.

Now, I would be okay if they said that: "Hey guys. We're working on Half Life 3, now but it's a long way off. We don't want to spoil anything so we're not going to advertise." or something to that effect. Because then I would know they weren't just letting people hang out while they grin in the background. People don't seem to realize that communication would solve so many problems if everyone would just DO IT.

...so not only did they not lie in the slightest, but they admitted that Half-Life 3 was a long way off and staggered the releases of their episodic content to tide of their consumers? Oh, what horror! Obviously this is comparable too all the bad business practices you compared the delay of Half-Life 3 to.

They did lie. They straight up said that it would be released in episodes 1-2 years apart. That was not the case.

And again, I wouldn't have such a problem if they just SAID that it was taking longer than expected or whatever their reason is instead of letting everyone remain in the dark.

No, you've failed to see the problem with the ending of Mass Effect 3. The problem was they actually lied during their marketing about the content of their ending. Whether or not the ending was "bad" is a separate issue entirely, and subjective at best. As poor as the critical reaction to the ending was, the problem people had with the company itself was the false advertising.

Try not to confuse the issues.

If you want to get into semantics like that, then no, nether Bioware nor Gearbox technically lied. They implied something that wasn't true without actually stating it. My argument here is that doing that is just as bad and Valve is guilty of that.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

Mass Effect 3 was the culmination of marketing lies, terrible writing that perceptively ruined the story driven plot of a beloved sci-fi trilogy, blatant DLC adverts on the end of the game, perceived confirmation to the fear of EA interference in Bioware, and post-controversy advertisements using the outcry to try and sell more copies.

Valve not releasing a game is a videogame company taking a long time to develop a game. It's an issue, it shouldn't be pushed under the rug and needs to be addressed by Valve because issues with 5 year old assets are bound to show, but its' not a deceitful thing, or taking advantage of the customers or treating us like trash.

Valve do need to get called out on taking too long to develop a game, but they haven't been tempting fans, they haven't been trolling us with promises, they haven't proposed deadlines and announcements and missed or postponed them. They've kept quiet to avoid fan disappointment and have been releasing other games, working on improving their flagship online store/community/DRM system Steam and are currently porting all their back catalogue of games to Linux, so they are genuinely busy.

 

[WoW Killer]

There's something seriously wrong with your world view if you think this is a big deal. The worst thing Valve have done is not yet release a video game. What kind of sheltered existence must you lead to be emotional, even hateful, about something like that? Gain some perspective.

You know what might have been worth getting upset over? If you'd put money down five years ago and still had nothing to show for it. That didn't happen. You haven't given Valve any money; they don't owe you anything. You haven't lost out by them not releasing this game.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

There's something seriously wrong with your world view if you think this is a big deal. The worst thing Valve have done is not yet release a video game. What kind of sheltered existence must you lead to be emotional, even hateful, about something like that? Gain some perspective.

You know what might have been worth getting upset over? If you'd put money down five years ago and still had nothing to show for it. That didn't happen. You haven't given Valve any money; they don't owe you anything. You haven't lost out by them not releasing this game.

The man with the fabulous pipe and moustache is correct.

Of all the developers, of all the games, you hate Valve?

What?

Just...

What?

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

I sincerely hope they never release HL3/HL2: Ep3. By this point it's a new Duke Nukem Forever. Nothing that Valve could release under that title could possibly live up to what fans expect for the wait they've had, and I think Valve, lazy complacent fuckers they might be at times, are smart enough to know this where others would turn a blind eye.

Let this be the one that got away of your game library. I know that's disappointing, especially considering that cliffhanger at the end of Ep 2, but I think it's better than playing something you waited the better part of a decade for, only to feel cheated.

 

[Papadam]

I don't think the OP know what the word "lie" means...

 

[Daft Time]

...so not only did they not lie in the slightest, but they admitted that Half-Life 3 was a long way off and staggered the releases of their episodic content to tide of their consumers? Oh, what horror! Obviously this is comparable too all the bad business practices you compared the delay of Half-Life 3 to.

They did lie. They straight up said that it would be released in episodes 1-2 years apart. That was not the case.

In fact, I tried to track down the claims you were referring to. The closest I could come was from an interview with PC Gamer in 2006.

Newell confirmed to PC Gamer that Episodes 1 through 4 are currently slated. And while we couldn't pin him down to a release schedule, he says the plan is to be "pretty frequent" when unveiling new episodes?ideally six to eight months between releases.

Still not seeing where the lie is here. He tells the public that they want to release the episodes about half a year apart, but he doesn't claim that's what going to happen. In fact, the games hadn't even started production. Is it really such a betrayal of trust that he didn't make his targets - not statements of release dates, mind you - in an interview he took before they had even started work on the title?

I went through every bit of information released about Half Life 3 that I could find - even found a compilation of all release information - and I couldn't find anything other that the quote above that was like what you claim. At this point, I really wish the word 'entitled' hadn't been stripped of all meaning by frequent misuse.

No, you've failed to see the problem with the ending of Mass Effect 3. The problem was they actually lied during their marketing about the content of their ending. Whether or not the ending was "bad" is a separate issue entirely, and subjective at best. As poor as the critical reaction to the ending was, the problem people had with the company itself was the false advertising.

Try not to confuse the issues.

If you want to get into semantics like that, then no, nether Bioware nor Gearbox technically lied. They implied something that wasn't true without actually stating it. My argument here is that doing that is just as bad and Valve is guilty of that.

Yes; both Bioware and Gearbox did lie. They made claims about it's produce that were false. Separating Mass Effect 3's Ending into two major issue - false advertising and poor writing - is not semantics. You're not really trying to claim that poor writing and lying to consumers is the same thing, are you?

 

[Goofguy]

I'd rather they take their time and release something that's great than try to rush out a half assed product. Yes, we're already coming up on a decade since the release of HL2 and I am chomping at the bit for HL3. However, in this day when we're getting annual iterations of CoD and AC, it's refreshing to see a company work on something for both their fans and themselves.

 

[Phlakes]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

Spoiler alert: they didn't.

But still, Valve isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Since the Orange Box we've had L4D/Portal/Dota 2 (EDIT: also Counter Strike GO), more games in the last few years than most developers have put out, and of course the wonders of Steam being constantly improved.

I obviously don't know what happened with Episode 3 but I'd bet money that it got so big they decided it would be better as a full installment, and by now they're probably working on a new engine since Source is ten years old.

And the point the other guy was making is that people trust Valve. They may not have delivered Episode 3 but there's no reason to be all up in their shit over it.

 

[Daft Time]

They can do it because their games are actually good and they don't even really owe us an episode 3?

See this is what I'm talking about. Why does that make it okay to build up expectations and not follow through? If you go by that logic, then no game company ever "owes" us anything. Bioware didn't "owe" us a good ending to ME3.

Spoiler alert: they didn't.

But still, Valve isn't just sitting around doing nothing. Since the Orange Box we've had L4D/Portal/Dota 2, more games in the last few years than most developers have put out, and of course the wonders of Steam being constantly improved.

I obviously don't know what happened with Episode 3 but I'd bet money that it got so big they decided it would be better as a full installment, and by now they're probably working on a new engine since Source is ten years old.

And the point the other guy was making is that people trust Valve. They may not have delivered Episode 3 but there's no reason to be all up in their shit over it.

To be fair; the real problem with the Mass Effect 3 was the dubious advertising rather than the bad ending - but no, developers only owe us what they sell us. They aren't obligated to meet subjective terms in anyway. Thus, the issue with the new Alien game and the larger issue, that tends to get lumped in with it's subjective problems, of Mass Effect 3's ending.

My personal theory on what happened to Half-Life 3 is they realised it would make a stellar flagship title for any product it was based on or required, whether it's a new engine, console generation or their own hardware. It'd be quite an bonus for whatever they are trying to sell at the time.

 

[Maximum Bert]

I am not a fan of Valve I actually kind of dislike them but hating them for not releasing episode 3 is a bit ridiculous and as far as I know they havent lied about it at least not blatantly they just didnt follow through on their original aims when they decided to go with episodic content.

Valve are lucky steam took off to be fair otherwise they would be long gone they havent really made any games for a long time at least games that arent based on mods or ones that havent been brought in from outside the company first.