Immersion breakers

[microwaviblerabbit]

Personally I lose immersion when NPC's go into the realm of hysterically stupid.

Such as in Oblivion where the merchants seem to hoard all their stuff, instead of selling it. I just sold you a bunch of armor, so why is no one wearing any? I know these people have the money...why? Especially the town guards. All the bandits and marauders have armor far superior to yours, and armies multiple times larger. Also with the main quest, the NPC's just got so stupid. The tactical decisions made...

Also, the Imperial Legion. The mightiest army, all slain by some local wildlife. Maybe this place going to hell isn't such a bad idea...

 

[SonicWaffle]

Since all the usual things have already been said, I guess I can just add two things to the thread: controllable jumping. In games like Oblivion, you press jump and forward, and you jump forward, but you can reverse direction in mid air. I know it's a gameplay mechanic that serves a purpose, but momentum is conserved, even in fantasy worlds.

Does it serve a purpose, as a mechanic? I can't think of a time when I've really needed to change direction in midair, not to the point where including it in the game was a necessity...

 

[DeepComet5581]

I know its a lot of playtime. Most of it was during holidays. It just goes to show that allowing third-party mods can make a game that much better.

I also dislike it when other characters talk in a manner to help the player use various functions, disregarding the fairly obvious function of tooltips. Or, even better, let someone read the f*cking manual to find out the basic controls.

For me, the biggest immersion breakers are HUDs and User Interfaces. In most FPSs, the HUD is unnecessarily cluttered with icons and bars of information. The User Interfaces also don't feel very immersive and break the flow of a game so easily.

A good example of a game that used the HUD well was Half-Life. All it had was one icon in the bottom left for your health, one to it's right for Suit Power, one box on the bottom right showing weapon information, and a bar across the top as an inventory. These boxes were small, unintrusive and unnoticeable.

 

[Souplex]

That whole Half Life/Bioshock/whatever first person game you want that is copying Valve at the moment (With the exception of Portal because it was all aboot isolation and whatnot) where you play as a floating pair of hands (First person game with no cutscenes, reflective surfaces, Character dialog from the PC, or legs when you look down.) and everyone keeps on talking about you/at you.

Uh...didn't Valve make Half-Life and Portal?

Yes and no. A group of college kids was making portal, they just threw money at them and helped them publish it. The whole "Floating hand" character can work if you try and create a sense of isolation. When people keep on staring at you and peppering their monologues with "Gordon Freeman" then it doesn't work.

 

[mrfusspot]

Any game where I can't vault a knee high wall. Especially bad in RPGs where they don't allow you to jump anyway, which is another for me. Sure, I don't expect jumping like in Halo, where I can vault an entire mountain (exaggeration), but being able to jump two feet would be nice...

 

[Treblaine]

Uh...didn't Valve make Half-Life and Portal?

Yes, they did.

Half-Life and Portal were very good when it came to immersion except when it came to the player characters. Neither Gordon Freeman nor Chell (Portal) utter even the smallest word. Even when being cut up by Combine rifles or surrounded by zombies, Freeman remains magically calm and silent.

There is a thread which covers the issue of mute-protagonist in absolute ball aching detail here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.176275-Your-thoughts-on-mute-protaganists?page=1

There you can read in extensive detail why I say mute-protagonists are so vital in video games.

The briefest summary I can give is to spite all the talk of 1st or 3rd person camera perspective almost all games are told from what would be considered (by traditional storytelling) a 2nd person perspective.

And bottom line is BOOKS ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES!!! Neither are they motion pictures, the same rules do not apply so things like "why is there not more characterisation of the protagonist (like through speaking)" are as ridiculous as complaining about the length or how there may be long sections where the plot is not advanced.

 

[thethingthatlurks]

Since all the usual things have already been said, I guess I can just add two things to the thread: controllable jumping. In games like Oblivion, you press jump and forward, and you jump forward, but you can reverse direction in mid air. I know it's a gameplay mechanic that serves a purpose, but momentum is conserved, even in fantasy worlds.

Does it serve a purpose, as a mechanic? I can't think of a time when I've really needed to change direction in midair, not to the point where including it in the game was a necessity...

To avoid falling to your death I would imagine. Sorry, should have added that bit.

 

[DeepComet5581]

Wow. That really does make my balls ache.

Anyway. I said that mute protagonism ruins immersion. I never said that it wasn't, as you put it, "Vital". Have you ever seen the series "Freeman's Mind" by Ross Scott on YouTube? It really puts into perspective that the player can give the protagonist a personality (Even if it is Neurotic and Delusional).

 

[SonicWaffle]

There you can read in extensive detail why I say mute-protagonists are so vital in video games.

I don't really have anything against a mute protagonist except in cases like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age. I'm clearly talking - I'm even choosing the things I want to say to people - but I'm only hearing their side of the conversation. I realise it would take a lot of time and money to record all the possible dialogue options, especially in the variety of voices that a game like Dragon Age would need for its many and varied protagonists, but still. It annoys me.

 

[KorLeonis]

QTE's and glitches are bad but the worst immersion breaker for me?

Achievement unlocked
Achievement unlocked
Achievement unlocked
(or trophies for the PS3 players)

If I'm finished the story and just trying to pick up a few more gamerscore fine, no prob. But if I'm playing thru for the storyline, trying to get myself into the character, then please let me hide the achievement notice.

 

[Treblaine]

two can play at that game

No, Half-Life is single-player.

Try Counter-Strike.

Obviously never heard of Sven Coop.

Maybe I count semi-obscure modifications for years-old games as relevant to their advertised and intended fuctions, and maybe I don't.

But one thing I don't do is take quasi-antagonizing forum posts into anything resembling serious consideration, which is critical intelligence if you planned to be at this a while.

Otherwise, I'll see you when I get home from work. Have a great day! Play nice!

OK, this needs to stop. Stop it with trying to turn this around and making it personal.

You deliberately misquoted me in a bitchy move and I pointed out how it was not a good idea by doing the same to you, but you seem to just want to escalate this further with a pointless aside about how Half Life is only single player.

Bottom line: don't do that, quote people to change what they say, it's trolling as it only pisses people off and doesn't add anything to the forum. I left gametrailers.com and came here to avoid crap like that i.e. no one can say anything without someone making it personal.

Now you can quote people in full or in part and explain how what said person is wrong about, but don't even START to put words in other people's mouths merely to undermine their person.

Now if you have some GENUINE criticisms of Half Life and suggestions for improvements then I'd be glad to hear them and will relish a spirited debate. But don't do this cheap bullshit tactic of merely implying bias to counter a well argued point of view.

"Otherwise, I'll see you when I get home from work."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? No THAT is more antagonising than anything I said to you. Stop escalating.

 

[SonicWaffle]

two can play at that game

No, Half-Life is single-player.

Try Counter-Strike.

Obviously never heard of Sven Coop.

Maybe I count semi-obscure modifications for years-old games as relevant to their advertised and intended fuctions, and maybe I don't.

But one thing I don't do is take quasi-antagonizing forum posts into anything resembling serious consideration, which is critical intelligence if you planned to be at this a while.

Otherwise, I'll see you when I get home from work. Have a great day! Play nice!

OK, this needs to stop. Stop it with trying to turn this around and making it personal.

You deliberately misquoted me in a bitchy move and I pointed out how it was not a good idea by doing the same to you, but you seem to just want to escalate this further with a pointless aside about how Half Life is only single player.

Bottom line: don't do that, quote people to change what they say, it's trolling as it only pisses people off and doesn't add anything to the forum. I left gametrailers.com and came here to avoid crap like that i.e. no one can say anything without someone making it personal.

Now you can quote people in full or in part and explain how what said person is wrong about, but don't even START to put words in other people's mouths merely to undermine their person.

Now if you have some GENUINE criticisms of Half Life and suggestions for improvements then I'd be glad to hear them and will relish a spirited debate. But don't do this cheap bullshit tactic of merely implying bias to counter a well argued point of view.

"Otherwise, I'll see you when I get home from work."

What the hell is that supposed to mean? No THAT is more antagonising than anything I said to you. Stop escalating.

I assumed "I'll see you when I get home from work" meant that the poster is now at work, and unable to reply until they get home.

Or they're implying they'll sex you up a good'un, I don't know...

 

[Treblaine]

There you can read in extensive detail why I say mute-protagonists are so vital in video games.

I don't really have anything against a mute protagonist except in cases like Fallout 3 or Dragon Age. I'm clearly talking - I'm even choosing the things I want to say to people - but I'm only hearing their side of the conversation. I realise it would take a lot of time and money to record all the possible dialogue options, especially in the variety of voices that a game like Dragon Age would need for its many and varied protagonists, but still. It annoys me.

I've played both but there are good reasons beyond coding for not hearing your avatar speak.

The more things your avatar does that you don't directly control, the less "immersion" and "sameness" you feel with the character. There are SO many parts of saying a line which you can control; the pacing, the inflection, whether you are threatening, pleading or comforting.

When your avatar just starts talking, it may be beautifully written prose and with an emotive voice actor but it won't be you. The illusion that you ARE that avatar is broken, and it seems more like you are just remote-controlling them to do certain things. It creates another degree of separation between you can the game world and all the characters in it.

Just having the words as text means it is easier for you to possess the avatar.

So I can see why Bioware kept the silent protagonist in Dragon Age as the more 'hardcore' RPG, while with the more more mainstream Mass Effect where they gave the main character Shepard a voice. Though this made Shepard a harder character to "inhabit" it did make him more like a cinema or tv-drama protagonist that is easier to lead and epic intergalactic plot.

This effect is almost instantly achieved in first-person-shooters, though it can be achieved where the camera spends most of the time at a third-person perspective.

Take with link, you don't ever say much, except maybe a simple 'yes' or 'no' though the few
sounds he does make are automatic vocalisations like yelps or screams in the middle of an attack. I don't think these break immersion because they can be seen as part of an automatic response set (gotta give a war cry when you attack) or involuntary response like yelling when you burn yourself.

I may have explained this horribly, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

Quick time events. I hate them, hate them, hate them.

I'm normally VERY forgiving of immersion breakers as long as they're in the run of gameplay, but when a gameplay mechanic makes itself obvious and says "HEY! Guess what? You're playing a video game!", that's where the line is crossed.

Exactly. I've been playing Dante's Inferno, and oh my god it pisses me off sometimes with the I AM A GIANT QUICK TIME EVENT. PRESS ME TO NOT DIE.

Hate. Hate hate hate.

Oblivion, for all it's flaws, I can forgive the immersion-breaking aspects because there are NO QUICK TIME EVENTS and so many things that DO immerse you - like the fact that you can sit in an actual library and read for hours if you want to, if you're a dork like me and find that stuff interesting.

Aw wow I do that, my current character is a scholar lol, I plan on not fighting much and running away, doing alchemy quests and travelling, earning money so I can buy a house and just fill it with books Oblivions so cool

 

[Iwata]

I know it's been said before, but QTE's.

I would love to see the cool stuff happening on the game, if I wasn't keeping an eye out for which button to press.

 

[Firia]

This may sound odd, but DEATH makes for a jarring immersion breaker. Say what you will about 2008's Prince of Persia (I loved it), but when Elika saved the Prince from death all those times, game play and flow went unhindered. I remained entranced in the game, thanks to that mechanic. When people complain you can't die, and I just mention that point of fact.

 

[Grayjack]

The biggest immersion killer to me is when first person games don't let you see your damn feet.

I don't care how immersive your story is, how amazing and atmospheric it is, its all fucking pointless if I can just look down and realise I'm just a floating camera with .

Nothing rips me out of immersion more...

I completely agree. Is it really that hard to add some legs and arms?

 

[meredithe]

Lack of visible limbs just drives me straight from the experience.
Like how in Half-Life 2, Gordon Freeman happens to possess the only car known to man that is capable of driving itself around - steering and all.

How funny, I never even noticed that he doesn't have his hands on the wheel of the cars (probably because they drive like crap and I'm busy being frustrated). The thing that always bothered me about Gordon's limbs (apart from not being able to line up jumps by seeing my feet) is that there's no animation for say petting Dog or patting Alyx on the shoulder. Why not? He's got hands to hold guns. That limit on the interaction in an otherwise excellent game is a bit immersion breaking for me.

Also, loading a shot gun whilst climbing a ladder in any FPS is hilariously video game-y.

The in-game tutorials where other characters explain stuff about how to jump and move around by referencing the controller buttons take me right out of a game. Especially if I'm playing a character that lives in this world and presumably has been getting himself around for a lifetime already. Super Paper Mario was terrible about this.

 

[Deef]

Loading screens bother the fuck out of me. I only like them when they're some kind of short cutscene, otherwise they just take any immersion I was feeling and throttle it to death.

 

[Mr.Black]

My biggest immersion killer is repeated sounds when a continued action is going on...

For instance, in Just Cause 2 (One of my favourite games of the decade by the way), I have found very few immersion breakers, but when I am on a road trip on a motorbike, when I reach top speed, the top speed noises repeat over and over and over again, and it's really noticable...

God I love that game. Another immersion breaker I found in Just Cause 2 is when you're on a building that's maybe 10metres tall, and you jump off and you start skydiving and you essentially fly the fuck away from where you were trying to go. It's not a big deal since you can grapple back, but it's just hilariously unrealistic.