Increasingly skinny women in video games?

[Naeras]

Honestly, I've been thinking about a fighting game concept lately where one of the characters would be a chubby/muscular woman. Why? Simply because I've never seen important female characters in games be anything but skinny, and thus it'd be somewhat original.

 

[Vault101]

Have you [i/]seen[/i] Final Fantasy lately. At least one dude has masturbated to one of those rabbit chicks.

....do they even need that as a selling point? its not like the internet doesnt have an abundance of whatever your into

there's really no need for it in games

 

[Nouw]

im going to leave this here..

Looks like Paul from LRR except with more and darker hair. Just wanted to say that .

 

[Vault101]

-snip-

You kinda break your point with femshep down there.. She's not exactly winning any beauty contests.

Then again no Mass Effect female is winning any beauty contests. >.>

OTOH she does look like a badass, which is good too. Nausicaa (non-gaming example ahoy!) is kind of a bad ass, and kinda plain. Uh..gaming example..gaming example...FemShep.

femshep (lets go with "new" default femshep) isn't ugly....some might disagree but I found her in-game appearance pretty damn good and fitted her perfectly

I think the fe-male charachters "unattractiveness" is more due to technical/uncanny valley reasons than design

 

[kingthrall]

what a stupid thread. I love skinny women and games are an escape from reality. If I want to see obese bush pigs I need only walk down the street to see some hairy de-evolved women.

Oh and get real from the feminism crap from that picture, really half the ISM's in this world are the source of problems.

 

[Vault101]

im going to leave this here..

hahaha that was hilarious

I never really got that far into SR3 but (this is going to sound silly) but I was a little disappointed on how it was handled story-wise

say what you want but SR2 had an interesting thing going on underneath all that silliness..SR3 became a little too self aware with the silliness

I mean did Jhonny Gat die? it actually took me a while to figure that out since it was kind of handled off screen and I was like "...what?"

 

[Vault101]

what a stupid thread. I love skinny women and games are an escape from reality. If I want to see obese bush pigs I need only walk down the street to see some hairy de-evolved women.

Oh and get real from the feminism crap from that picture, really half the ISM's in this world are the source of problems.

*sigh*

YES that's exectally what we are all saying [b/]we want all female charachters to be fat/ugly as a requirement!!"[/b]

no

you need to understand the differences here, like I said before, there is a different between "mind numbingly stupid [b/]needless[/b] sex object charachter" and "attractive charachter"

granted being attractive is a default state, no one disputing that...

oh and "middle ground" is all I'll add to that

 

[kingthrall]

what a stupid thread. I love skinny women and games are an escape from reality. If I want to see obese bush pigs I need only walk down the street to see some hairy de-evolved women.

Oh and get real from the feminism crap from that picture, really half the ISM's in this world are the source of problems.

*sigh*

YES that's exectally what we are all saying [b/]we want all female charachters to be fat/ugly as a requirement!!"[/b]

no

you need to understand the differences here, like I said before, there is a different between "mind numbingly stupid [b/]needless[/b] sex object charachter" and "attractive charachter"

granted being attractive is a default state, no one disputing that...

oh and "middle ground" is all I'll add to that

I dont mind either though, that is the point. Its the games decision and I dont buy a game with a surly tart on it anyway it just proves the plot is going to be as thick as water.

 

[Mordekaien]

And that's why I love Aveline from Dragon Age 2! She is a fighter, she looks like one. I don't think she has a revealing outfit when you go to action with her.... I could be wrong though.

Also, This is the reason why I only play City of Heroes. There being a skinny girl in spandex suit is requirement.

On serious note, I like how they did it with M&B Warband. You can play as female, but the armor you wear is totally identical to armors that guys wear.

 

[Olas]

As a long-time Metroid fan I'm somewhat proud that at least one female video-game character tends to wear realistic body armor; and she keeps it on most of the time in the games as well.

Not that the internet cares.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Why aren't you a feminist? Feminism is believing that women should be given the same rights and opportunities as men. How can any modern thinking person not be a feminist?

Not who you were asking, but as someone who has actually studied feminism, this is incredibly dishonest.

First of all, which feminism are you talking about? There are a lot of different subdivisions, and they believed a lot of different things. Your definition only really does a good job of summing up the main thrust of the first wave. Several second wave groups (including the groups that gave us most of the terminology currently used to discuss gender issues) were violently opposed to rights for gay men, describing male homosexuality as a patriarchal reaction to feminism. Many of the most prominent second wavers openly idealized Valerie Solanas, a mentally unhinged murderer who wrote a book advocating the systematic extermination of men, who she described as "walking dildos". Her admirers still hold an annual convention and perform dramatizations of her work to captive audiences of Swedish school children (their numbers have included prominent publishers, educators and lobbyists from throughout the post-industrial world). The third wave believes in a host of special legal protections, stemming from the work of MacKinnon, and continue to receive serious complaints about racism and transphobia. Obviously there are many positive things various branches of feminism have accomplished as well, but these are some examples of things which might make people hesitant to join their ranks. Personally, I parted ways with feminism because I found their major academic branches supporting incompetent and unprofessional academic practices which I find unforgivable in published work (countless formal logical fallacies, failure to conduct proper research, misuse of data, failure to cite proper sources, etc.).

Feminism is more than one idea and it is entirely possible to be in favor of equality without identifying as a feminist.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Why aren't you a feminist? Feminism is believing that women should be given the same rights and opportunities as men. How can any modern thinking person not be a feminist?

Not who you were asking, but as someone who has actually studied feminism, this is incredibly dishonest.

First of all, which feminism are you talking about? There are a lot of different subdivisions, and they believed a lot of different things. Your definition only really does a good job of summing up the main thrust of the first wave. Several second wave groups (including the groups that gave us most of the terminology currently used to discuss gender issues) were violently opposed to rights for gay men, describing male homosexuality as a patriarchal reaction to feminism. Many of the most prominent second wavers openly idealized Valerie Solanas, a mentally unhinged murderer who wrote a book advocating the systematic extermination of men, who she described as "walking dildos". Her admirers still hold an annual convention and perform dramatizations of her work to captive audiences of Swedish school children (their numbers have included prominent publishers, educators and lobbyists from throughout the post-industrial world). The third wave believes in a host of special legal protections, stemming from the work of MacKinnon, and continue to receive serious complaints about racism and transphobia. Obviously there are many positive things various branches of feminism have accomplished as well, but these are some examples of things which might make people hesitant to join their ranks. Personally, I parted ways with feminism because I found their major academic branches supporting incompetent and unprofessional academic practices which I find unforgivable in published work (countless formal logical fallacies, failure to conduct proper research, misuse of data, failure to cite proper sources, etc.).

Feminism is more than one idea and it is entirely possible to be in favor of equality without identifying as a feminist.

Then you just don't identify as one of the crazy groups of feminists? Self-description and identification is pretty damn easy.

 

[Vault101]

I dont mind either though, that is the point. Its the games decision and I dont buy a game with a surly tart on it anyway it just proves the plot is going to be as thick as water.

well...yeah...it is the games decicion, like say you had a game where you played as a butch female solder with as much attitude as firepower.....she doesn't give two fucks about what others think of her and will do whatever it takes to get the job done, she wont hesitate to get dirty/violent...her prickly attitude a result of people constantly underestimating and not taking her seriously...people call her a "*****" so she says "fuck it" and wears that title with pride...

....anyway my point with that imaginary character is she wouldn't be "attractive" [i/]but that would be the point[/i] its a fundamental part of her character and the story this imaginary game would tell

I'm sure you get what I mean

I mean I wouldn't touch bayonetta or call her a "good example of a good female" (as some have) but I'm not going to complain about it eather

 

[Vampire cat]

I'd agree with some here that men in games are also being exposed to this "ideal human" thing, but it's still not as stupidly silly most of the time as an average female outfit and body... Somehow I don't find TERA that bad, if only because they take it all the way at least... Both genders of most races are very scantly clad, rather than the more traditional Male warrior in a huge full plate armor besides the (theoretically) equally combat-efficient Female of the same class, level and equipment, that for reasons of stupid only wear a chainmail bikini to war... ... Toss in some MASSIVE shoulder plates on that bikini for good meassure, because we ALL know how awesome massive fucking shoulder plates are... AGH! I HATE MASSIVE SHOULDER PLATES!

A lot of games take males to a silly level too though... It's not uncommon to see arms that would put a young Arnold Swarzenegger to shame, who they are trying to appeal to with this look I'm not sure though...

Also, didn't Saint's Row: The Third have the option to play as different weight characters.

The only take on weight in games that I find really memorable is GTA: San Andreas actually. It's a wild and crazy game, yeah. But rather uniquely your character (CJ) can increase and decrease both muscle mass and fat as you go along, by working out in a gym/being active in-game or by eating a lot and driving around in cars all the time. It's kinda awesome to consider that you can start out like some average guy, and end up on both extremes. I remember putting in some cheats to give CJ maximum fat and muscle, making him huge X3.

 

[Hagi]

I think the main issue with the idealisation of both genders is that the male idealisation is somewhat practical. The female one is anything but.

In 99% of games you play as a warrior or fighter of some kind. Be it with swords and sorcery, be it with assault rifles or be it with laser guns. You're a fighter.

Being in top physical condition and heavily muscled matches that role. Conforming to the male ideal is clearly helpful in the role of a fighter. Not to say that other body types would be unable to fill that role, but it certainly helps to have the body of well... a fighter.

Conforming to the female ideal is a whole different story. Giant breasts will just get in the way of fighting not to mention serious back pain considering the amount of 'support' some of these characters have. Being that skinny isn't exactly a huge help either, a more frail body can take less damage (granted, a bullet or axe to the head is lethal no matter what) and will have trouble when wielding heavier weapons and in sustained fights.

For this reason I'm perfectly fine with men being idealised like that but women idealised like that just feel slightly awkward (in combat-based games at least). Then again, I am a gamer who greatly values immersion and a sense of realism. Nothing wrong with other preferences, but it'd be nice to see more practically shaped women in games.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Why aren't you a feminist? Feminism is believing that women should be given the same rights and opportunities as men. How can any modern thinking person not be a feminist?

Not who you were asking, but as someone who has actually studied feminism, this is incredibly dishonest.

First of all, which feminism are you talking about? There are a lot of different subdivisions, and they believed a lot of different things. Your definition only really does a good job of summing up the main thrust of the first wave. Several second wave groups (including the groups that gave us most of the terminology currently used to discuss gender issues) were violently opposed to rights for gay men, describing male homosexuality as a patriarchal reaction to feminism. Many of the most prominent second wavers openly idealized Valerie Solanas, a mentally unhinged murderer who wrote a book advocating the systematic extermination of men, who she described as "walking dildos". Her admirers still hold an annual convention and perform dramatizations of her work to captive audiences of Swedish school children (their numbers have included prominent publishers, educators and lobbyists from throughout the post-industrial world). The third wave believes in a host of special legal protections, stemming from the work of MacKinnon, and continue to receive serious complaints about racism and transphobia. Obviously there are many positive things various branches of feminism have accomplished as well, but these are some examples of things which might make people hesitant to join their ranks. Personally, I parted ways with feminism because I found their major academic branches supporting incompetent and unprofessional academic practices which I find unforgivable in published work (countless formal logical fallacies, failure to conduct proper research, misuse of data, failure to cite proper sources, etc.).

Feminism is more than one idea and it is entirely possible to be in favor of equality without identifying as a feminist.

Then you just don't identify as one of the crazy groups of feminists? Self-description and identification is pretty damn easy.

More difficult than you might think. The third wave has largely rejected the second wave practice of identifying its major subgroups by cleat and agreed upon titles (the second wave included the "separatist feminists", "gender feminists", "liberal feminists", etc.). Most will simply identify themselves as "feminist" and all of them will say "but not one of the crazy ones you've heard about", regardless of their beliefs, because no one thinks their own position is crazy. Furthermore, as an aspiring academic, calling myself feminist, whatever qualifiers I added, would be seen as a sign of support for the practices of feminist academia, which I do not approve of. Additionally, I disagree with the methods currently being employed by all of the major organized feminist groups because they are rooted in out of date and/or disproved theories and I consider them to be, ultimately, counterproductive.

In any case, I prefer not to affiliate myself with any ideological group because doing so would place me in the position of potentially being seen to support the actions of other members of that group regardless of whether I agree with them or am even aware of them. I prefer to discuss these issues as an individual and to lend my active support to specific, clearly defined and temporary causes (like the passage of a particular law) rather than with ideologies. I also distrust professional activists, as they have enormous monetary and political incentives never to permanently solve the problems they deal with (the results of this have been well documented in regards to the problem of homelessness).

Ultimately, what does it matter to you whether I call myself a feminist or not? Is it not enough for me to support gender, racial and sexual equality in my own way and on my own terms? Do you intend to require that I do this only in the manner and through the channels of which you approve?

 

[sarahvait]

actually ...

its the character models that annoy me more then the 'armor'.

is it to much to ask that that 'tanking' classes have male and female models that look like they can do the job? not like you can't make 'burly sexy'

I may be heading off topic, but it seems to me that most of the wounds she's sporting are because she attempted to fight/run/walk/breathe/fart in that super pointy armor. Seriously, how do you operate that crap without slicing your own appendages off?

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Why aren't you a feminist? Feminism is believing that women should be given the same rights and opportunities as men. How can any modern thinking person not be a feminist?

Not who you were asking, but as someone who has actually studied feminism, this is incredibly dishonest.

First of all, which feminism are you talking about? There are a lot of different subdivisions, and they believed a lot of different things. Your definition only really does a good job of summing up the main thrust of the first wave. Several second wave groups (including the groups that gave us most of the terminology currently used to discuss gender issues) were violently opposed to rights for gay men, describing male homosexuality as a patriarchal reaction to feminism. Many of the most prominent second wavers openly idealized Valerie Solanas, a mentally unhinged murderer who wrote a book advocating the systematic extermination of men, who she described as "walking dildos". Her admirers still hold an annual convention and perform dramatizations of her work to captive audiences of Swedish school children (their numbers have included prominent publishers, educators and lobbyists from throughout the post-industrial world). The third wave believes in a host of special legal protections, stemming from the work of MacKinnon, and continue to receive serious complaints about racism and transphobia. Obviously there are many positive things various branches of feminism have accomplished as well, but these are some examples of things which might make people hesitant to join their ranks. Personally, I parted ways with feminism because I found their major academic branches supporting incompetent and unprofessional academic practices which I find unforgivable in published work (countless formal logical fallacies, failure to conduct proper research, misuse of data, failure to cite proper sources, etc.).

Feminism is more than one idea and it is entirely possible to be in favor of equality without identifying as a feminist.

Then you just don't identify as one of the crazy groups of feminists? Self-description and identification is pretty damn easy.

More difficult than you might think. The third wave has largely rejected the second wave practice of identifying its major subgroups by cleat and agreed upon titles (the second wave included the "separatist feminists", "gender feminists", "liberal feminists", etc.). Most will simply identify themselves as "feminist" and all of them will say "but not one of the crazy ones you've heard about", regardless of their beliefs, because no one thinks their own position is crazy. Furthermore, as an aspiring academic, calling myself feminist, whatever qualifiers I added, would be seen as a sign of support for the practices of feminist academia, which I do not approve of. Additionally, I disagree with the methods currently being employed by all of the major organized feminist groups because they are rooted in out of date and/or disproved theories and I consider them to be, ultimately, counterproductive.

In any case, I prefer not to affiliate myself with any ideological group because doing so would place me in the position of potentially being seen to support the actions of other members of that group regardless of whether I agree with them or am even aware of them. I prefer to discuss these issues as an individual and to lend my active support to specific, clearly defined and temporary causes (like the passage of a particular law) rather than with ideologies. I also distrust professional activists, as they have enormous monetary and political incentives never to permanently solve the problems they deal with (the results of this have been well documented in regards to the problem of homelessness).

Ultimately, what does it matter to you whether I call myself a feminist or not? Is it not enough for me to support gender, racial and sexual equality in my own way and on my own terms? Do you intend to require that I do this only in the manner and through the channels of which you approve?

But being supportive of equality between the sexes is feminism, whether or not you affiliate with any particular group or not. Nor do you have to agree with their methods. Do you support equal rights for men and women? If yes, you are, in the colloquial sense (which is what I'm talking about), feminist. I'm not saying you have to call yourself feminist, it's just when someone (like the first person I replied to) says they aren't a feminist, most people will automatically assume they aren't for all of this. It's a simple matter of clarity, which is important on the internet.

 

[kingthrall]

I dont mind either though, that is the point. Its the games decision and I dont buy a game with a surly tart on it anyway it just proves the plot is going to be as thick as water.

well...yeah...it is the games decicion, like say you had a game where you played as a butch female solder with as much attitude as firepower.....she doesn't give two fucks about what others think of her and will do whatever it takes to get the job done, she wont hesitate to get dirty/violent...her prickly attitude a result of people constantly underestimating and not taking her seriously...people call her a "*****" so she says "fuck it" and wears that title with pride...

....anyway my point with that imaginary character is she wouldn't be "attractive" [i/]but that would be the point[/i] its a fundamental part of her character and the story this imaginary game would tell

I'm sure you get what I mean

I mean I wouldn't touch bayonetta or call her a "good example of a good female" (as some have) but I'm not going to complain about it eather

They kind of tried this with morrigan in dragon age, but I mean who would want an anxious repressed butch woman on their party or as a character constantly complaining about why nobody wants to give her a good laying or pay attention to her?

Now Imoen of baldurs gate , now there is a character I can relate too