InXile's Brian Fargo Calls Steam PC Gaming's "Savior"

[NuclearKangaroo]

Which their job does so that is that.

because you say so? yeah right

if you are wrong, simply accept it, stop trying to defend what cannot be defended

ass kissing is not a requeriment to be a game developer

When I tell you the company knows best, I'm wrong. When you tell me the same, you're right?

All the failed products in the world should tell you that it doesn't matter who you are, your product can very much fail.
Besides what does making games, and having a distribution storefront matter in regards to calculating if the public will eat up your branded premade PCs? Sony had many years of experience in running a storefront, and developing electronics across a huge spectrum of devices and the PSPGO still bombed.

Who does that machine attract exactly? PC gamers who buy pre built PCs and can't download the steam OS? That such a huge portion of the market?
Do regale me on how successful http://www.dell.com/uk/p/alienware-x51/pd is if you really believe its some huge game changer.

but heres the thing, we have YET to know if valve's venture will work or not, you entire argument was

"PC gamers wont buy em" - despite the fact you dont know that

"too expensive for console gamers" - again, you dont know that

"its 13 models instead of 3 it wont work" - and again you, dont, know, that

this shit has be done to see i it works or not



Valve is good at opening new markets where there used to be none, kind of like apple in a way, im not saying valve cant fail, im saying i trust them, thats 2 different things

 

[Phlogiston]

Yes there are 13, Alienware amonest them (which while typing I noticed you said the same thing in brackets). Anyway that is why I said branded as that is what it is. Such machines already exist.

13 which are prototypes from January.

To fill you in on the complicated system specs; all of those machines are essentially what the self-build specs for beating the current gen consoles *or* better - except perhaps the Brix Pro that's not actually a fully fledged gaming system and is designed as a streaming box since it only has integrated graphics, although judging from the article I read yesterday they've changed their tune and are now doing tiny boxes with discrete GPUs inside, new model being released sometime in the next month that looked like similar specs to these.

So aside from the one possible exception all of those boxes will run any multiplatform game at a comparable rate to the current consoles. The more expensive ones will completely demolish them in quality. Some of it's very vague being prerelease blurb but all of them have better CPUs and all except the prementioned have equal or better GPUs... above that you just let the system tell you whether you'll be running that game at Ultra or Low settings (my gpu software optimises all those settings for me on my rig already).

I'm sure after release they can do some screenshot comparisons to show you what your extra $ are gonna buy on some big titles of the time. I kinda hope that they drop HL3 on us at that point because that would be hilarious:

"Here's HL3 on PS3, now PS4, now on a $499 steammachine, now on a $2000 steammachine."

No need for exclusivity when you can just blow the competition away in performance AND SELL YOUR GAME TO YOUR COMPETITORS ANYWAY MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA (evil Gabe edit)

EDIT: Also why not put a steam sale on so that their new owners can take advantage of the 1000 odd Linux titles available on launchday? http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux

I think Gabe has a pretty good hand here tbh

 

[Rozalia1]

Which their job does so that is that.

because you say so? yeah right

if you are wrong, simply accept it, stop trying to defend what cannot be defended

ass kissing is not a requeriment to be a game developer

It is if you are tasked with talking up your benefactor, and company's partners. So take that minecraft developer you hate so much, what does he get his company if he sat down in front of the media and said Microsoft is crap, their device is crap, and he hopes they fail? At best he'll get fired, at worst he'll be fired whilst losing a ton of cash for his boss.

Microsoft could be bloody Satan for all that it matters, if you have to talk them up than that is what you do if you're a professional.

but heres the thing, we have YET to know if valve's venture will work or not, you entire argument was

"PC gamers wont buy em" - despite the fact you dont know that

"too expensive for console gamers" - again, you dont know that

"its 13 models instead of 3 it wont work" - and again you, dont, know, that

this shit has be done to see i it works or not

Valve is good at opening new markets where there used to be none, kind of like apple in a way, im not saying valve cant fail, im saying i trust them, thats 2 different things

What they are doing has been done, the whole PC console thing. What makes them so different? Their brand pretty much that only PC gamers know, or care about.
How do you open a new market with just a brand name? How do you open it without any reasonable amount of advertising?

I get you're a big fan of Valve but lets not put them on a pedestal. Its already been done and not worked, a little branding isn't going to fix it.

I'm sure after release they can do some screenshot comparisons to show you what your extra $ are gonna buy on some big titles of the time. I kinda hope that they drop HL3 on us at that point because that would be hilarious:

"Here's HL3 on PS3, now PS4, now on a $499 steammachine, now on a $2000 steammachine."

No need for exclusivity when you can just blow the competition away in performance AND SELL YOUR GAME TO YOUR COMPETITORS ANYWAY ^^

They'd be better using something like Call of Duty than the "fabled" HL3.

499 machine has no guarantee it'll function well a couple of years down the line, 2000 is for absolutely no one.

Why are you shouting at me? Like I don't believe I've even talked of exclusivity in this thread and you're shouting at me over it?

 

[Phlogiston]

They'd be better using something like Call of Duty than the "fabled" HL3.

499 machine has no guarantee it'll function well a couple of years down the line, 2000 is for absolutely no one.

Why are you shouting at me? Like I don't believe I've even talked of exclusivity in this thread and you're shouting at me over it?

Sorry the caps wasn't directed at you, was just imagining Gabe saying it before collapsing into maniacal laughter, evil villain style, edited in a MUAHAHAHAHA to clarify

The 499 box has pretty much the same specs as the hardware inside the current consoles...so if they function well down the line, so should the steam machines...

I'm not gonna digress into how using Valve's own linux based OS basically puts the box onto the same pedestal as Microsoft/Sony using their own OS to prevent shortcomings (basically it's to do with Microsoft tying down graphics API's with DirectX and not really giving a s**t about gaming on PC for many years (long link about the history) [http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/60544/why-do-game-developers-prefer-windows]

Then you have additional things to consider like the upcoming Mantle [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantle_%28API%29] from AMD which again is API based stuff which even works within windows.

Basically there's lots of things to do with making the absolute most of graphics cards on PCs in a similar way that devs used to on the older consoles - which means that similarly specced PC parts will stay competitive for most/all the consoles lifespan.

And yeah, I'm just completely hoping on a whim about HL3, but hey it'd be the best launch title for any "console" ever in history

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

It is if you are tasked with talking up your benefactor, and company's partners. So take that minecraft developer you hate so much, what does he get his company if he sat down in front of the media and said Microsoft is crap, their device is crap, and he hopes they fail? At best he'll get fired, at worst he'll be fired whilst losing a ton of cash for his boss.

Microsoft could be bloody Satan for all that it matters, if you have to talk them up than that is what you do if you're a professional.

minecraft? dont you mean kinect?

anyways sure hed get fired, hed get demoted, etc, but, would he be a worse game developer? no

see where im getting? unless you are a professional ass kisser, being an ass kisser is not a sign of professionalism, at worst being an ass kisser can actually be unprofessional, hell maybe if there werent so many ass kissers at microsoft someone wouldve stood up and said, "OUR COMPANY CEO IS NAKED! also the kinect is a stupid idea that is going to bring untold amount of problems to our console"

and you keep saying brain fargo one of the most experienced devs in the industry is unprofessional because he said consoles are too restrictive using a hyperbole and because he said valve helped PC gaming gain much more notoriety

being an ass kisser doesnt make you a better professional, you are not a worse game developer by not being an ass kisser, ass kissing at not point is a part of being a game developer, i will not discuss this anymore because is insanely dumb

What they are doing has been done, the whole PC console thing. What makes them so different? Their brand pretty much that only PC gamers know, or care about.
How do you open a new market with just a brand name? How do you open it without any reasonable amount of advertising?

I get you're a big fan of Valve but lets not put them on a pedestal. Its already been done and not worked, a little branding isn't going to fix it.

let me show you why is different

- first of all the market itself is different, PC is actually dominating, but there still a certain degree of techincal knowledge that is needed in order to get into it, the steam machines are meant to reduce this barrier

- second, valve has actually divided its venture into 3 parts that work together but can take off by themselves, a gaming dedicated OS, a line of budget priced PC with similar specs to current consoles and upgradeable, a control that allows most PC games past and future to be played on the couch

- third, valve has already begun working on this ever since they developed big picture mode

- fourth, a significant existing library, see how current consoles struggle to gain a library worth the investment of buying them? Valve wants to solve this problem with the steam controller, which will allow normal PC games to be played on the couch with mininal problems (hopefully), of course the library is going to be limited only to linux games but valve is also working on getting more devs aboard the linux bandwagon, also the introduction of multiplatform engines like the unreal engine is going to make this transition easier


the way i see it valve is taking a calculated risk, and they have a good chance at succeding

 

[Rozalia1]

minecraft? dont you mean kinect?

anyways sure hed get fired, hed get demoted, etc, but, would he be a worse game developer? no

see where im getting? unless you are a professional ass kisser, being an ass kisser is not a sign of professionalism, at worst being an ass kisser can actually be unprofessional, hell maybe if there werent so many ass kissers at microsoft someone wouldve stood up and said, "OUR COMPANY CEO IS NAKED! also the kinect is a stupid idea that is going to bring untold amount of problems to our console"

and you keep saying brain fargo one of the most experienced devs in the industry is unprofessional because he said consoles are too restrictive using a hyperbole and because he said valve helped PC gaming gain much more notoriety

being an ass kisser doesnt make you a better professional, you are not a worse game developer by not being an ass kisser, ass kissing at not point is a part of being a game developer, i will not discuss this anymore because is insanely dumb

Looked it over and saw minecraft instead of microsoft for some reason...regardless it doesn't change the meaning of what I was saying.

You have a very romanticised view of what it means to be professional. If your boss asks you to sell a product then you do it, you don't rebel and state its rubbish. They want to that than they can do so behind closed doors.
Being professional in this case is getting on with it to the best of your abilities, not acting like a petulant child and getting fired for it. It boggles my mind how you can even begin to think giving an FU to your boss is professional.

No need for the absurd language, hell no need to even mention them.

It becomes part of their job if they have to promote it, or talk about it.

- second, valve has actually divided its venture into 3 parts that work together but can take off by themselves, a gaming dedicated OS, a line of budget priced PC with similar specs to current consoles and upgradeable, a control that allows most PC games past and future to be played on the couch

- third, valve has already begun working on this ever since they developed big picture mode

- fourth, a significant existing library, see how current consoles struggle to gain a library worth the investment of buying them? Valve wants to solve this problem with the steam controller, which will allow normal PC games to be played on the couch with mininal problems (hopefully), of course the library is going to be limited only to linux games but valve is also working on getting more devs aboard the linux bandwagon, also the introduction of multiplatform engines like the unreal engine is going to make this transition easier

the way i see it valve is taking a calculated risk, and they have a good chance at succeding

That PC I linked you to...released in 2013 to act as a "console", priced as low as they could(599), uses big picture mode (actually advertised), and can use steam OS. Didn't work last year so what is exactly so different now?

Also why is the upgradable nature even mentioned? If you can upgrade your PC than...do it. If console gamers buy it with the knowledge they will down the line have to upgrade it...than again why not just do it when they very likely already have a PC?

So it has no unique selling points as the product already exists meaning you're basically paying to be able to say your have a "Steammachine". Additionally there are no exclusives to it over your desktop, and as you say its linux meaning you actually have less games than a standard PC running windows. I'd imagine you could get around that by installing windows but there would be an additional cost involved in that, and it'd beg the question what the point in buying the "console" was.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Looked it over and saw minecraft instead of microsoft for some reason...regardless it doesn't change the meaning of what I was saying.

You have a very romanticised view of what it means to be professional. If your boss asks you to sell a product then you do it, you don't rebel and state its rubbish. They want to that than they can do so behind closed doors.
Being professional in this case is getting on with it to the best of your abilities, not acting like a petulant child and getting fired for it. It boggles my mind how you can even begin to think giving an FU to your boss is professional.

No need for the absurd language, hell no need to even mention them.

It becomes part of their job if they have to promote it, or talk about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

That PC I linked you to...released in 2013 to act as a "console", priced as low as they could(599), uses big picture mode (actually advertised), and can use steam OS. Didn't work last year so what is exactly so different now?

- valve hasnt finished their steam controller
- valve hasnt finished SteamOS
- valve hasnt started doing marketing for the whole project
- valve hasnt announced the big name developers that are going to start making games for linux

Also why is the upgradable nature even mentioned? If you can upgrade your PC than...do it. If console gamers buy it with the knowledge they will down the line have to upgrade it...than again why not just do it when they very likely already have a PC?

So it has no unique selling points as the product already exists meaning you're basically paying to be able to say your have a "Steammachine". Additionally there are no exclusives to it over your desktop, and as you say its linux meaning you actually have less games than a standard PC running windows. I'd imagine you could get around that by installing windows but there would be an additional cost involved in that, and it'd beg the question what the point in buying the "console" was.

its meant to be an easy to use PC but still gives you the option to upgrade i you so desire, that simple

this machines are meants to compete more directly with traditional game consoles, aiming at usability and adapted to work better on the living rooms


can we wait now until valve begins to push the project?

 

[Rozalia1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

So according to you devs actually spend all their time working on things. They never have to make any appearances anywhere, demo something, talk to journalists, give talks, or anything.

- valve hasnt finished their steam controller
- valve hasnt finished SteamOS
- valve hasnt started doing marketing for the whole project
- valve hasnt announced the big name developers that are going to start making games for linux

A controller is a game changer? Well I did always find it annoying how I couldn't use controllers on PC...wait what the hell is this thing I have here next to my PC. Yeah Valve's fancy controller is irrelevant to the success of steammachines especially when they'll likely also be sold separately.

SteamOS is really irrelevant to the success of the thing when anyone can just download it.

Wouldn't it be up to the companies actually doing the machines to promote it?

Won't be enough.

its meant to be an easy to use PC but still gives you the option to upgrade i you so desire, that simple

this machines are meants to compete more directly with traditional game consoles, aiming at usability and adapted to work better on the living rooms

can we wait now until valve begins to push the project?

Already exists.

Already exists.

Oh I look forward to their professional devs being rolled out to regale us with the advantages of the branding on the product. Already heard some, though oddly I heard no one calling them unprofessional.

That reminds me, how is the deal being done anyway? Did Valve actually commission the creating of those machines, or are they just giving those companies their brand name?

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

So according to you devs actually spend all their time working on things. They never have to make any appearances anywhere, demo something, talk to journalists, give talks, or anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

A controller is a game changer? Well I did always find it annoying how I couldn't use controllers on PC...wait what the hell is this thing I have here next to my PC. Yeah Valve's fancy controller is irrelevant to the success of steammachines especially when they'll likely also be sold separately.

the steam controller will come bundled with every steam machine, as i said, you have literally no information about steam and keep insisting on discussing about it

as for a controller not being a game changer, remember the wiimote?

the steam controller is going to be a game changer, because if it works good enough, it will allow the user to play ANY PC game on a couch confortably, RTS, Adventure games, MMO's, etc

SteamOS is really irrelevant to the success of the thing when anyone can just download it.

Wouldn't it be up to the companies actually doing the machines to promote it?

Won't be enough.

so a line of computers called STEAM machines, wont be promoted by the owners of STEAM, ok


yes SteamOS is important because its means to be a hassle free, gaming oriented OS, you could download it for your own PC but that on itself is a hassle, see where im going

Already exists.

Already exists.

Oh I look forward to their professional devs being rolled out to regale us with the advantages of the branding on the product. Already heard some, though oddly I heard no one calling them unprofessional.

That reminds me, how is the deal being done anyway? Did Valve actually commission the creating of those machines, or are they just giving those companies their brand name?

- valve hasnt finished their steam controller
- valve hasnt finished SteamOS
- valve hasnt started doing marketing for the whole project
- valve hasnt announced the big name developers that are going to start making games for linux

also i dont think the details of the partnership have been disclosed yet

 

[Phlogiston]

the steam controller is going to be a game changer, because if it works good enough, it will allow the user to play ANY PC game on a couch confortably, RTS, Adventure games, MMO's, etc

This is such an important point about how the steam controller should be better than current console controllers.

Current console controllers are adequate for FPS/Vehicle/simplified strategy games but ideally you really want m+k or something else for vehicle stuff (joystick/wheel with pedals)

They're very good for beat'em up, TPS and sports games.

They are absolutely atrocious for anything that requires precise input anywhere across the whole screen.

I hope the Steam controller really lives upto this and enables these genres to be played from the couch - who knows they might even be good enough to compete with m+k users in FPS as well.

 

[Rozalia1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

Video game devs never leave their caves for anything. They eat, sleep, program, repeat. Those guys who do attend events and talk to people are actually all classically trained actors.

the steam controller will come bundled with every steam machine, as i said, you have literally no information about steam and keep insisting on discussing about it

as for a controller not being a game changer, remember the wiimote?

the steam controller is going to be a game changer, because if it works good enough, it will allow the user to play ANY PC game on a couch confortably, RTS, Adventure games, MMO's, etc

I know that it won't be exclusive to the things.

That had an actual gimmick instead of being a vanilla midget.

Don't be a mark now. Its a controller, not the second coming of Christ. Besides weren't the trackpads removed?

so a line of computers called STEAM machines, wont be promoted by the owners of STEAM, ok

yes SteamOS is important because its means to be a hassle free, gaming oriented OS, you could download it for your own PC but that on itself is a hassle, see where im going

Several companies sell products that they just decide to give 0 advertising because it'd be waste for a multitude of reasons.

Except if you want to actually play a large part of the PC library you need to get windows on there...sounds more inconvenient if you ask me.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Video game devs never leave their caves for anything. They eat, sleep, program, repeat. Those guys who do attend events and talk to people are actually all classically trained actors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

it just baffles me how much you want to keep arguing a video game developer, must do other stuff besides developing video games to be called a video game develper, i told you i wouldnt argue this point anymore, but since this is my last reply i might as well elabore this point one last time

you see, im a programmer, and since i love gaming, is not totally unexpected that ive created some game prototypes in the past, you know, all this time i thought those things i created were video games, they had graphics, game mechanics, winning and losing conditions, accepted user input, etc

but aparently since i dont use twitter and i havent attended to a single gaming related event in my entire life, i must not be a game developer, despite knowing how to program and having a good idea of how game mechanics should work, and despite the fact i have created digital interactive entertainment before, i am literally unable to make video games, those things i created cant be video games

how could i be so foolish, oh my!

how do i feel? disappointed? yes, but not quite defeated! because i know the very first moment i attend to a video game event, those things i created will retroactively become video games and ill become a video game developer at last!

I know that it won't be exclusive to the things.

That had an actual gimmick instead of being a vanilla midget.

Don't be a mark now. Its a controller, not the second coming of Christ. Besides weren't the trackpads removed?

you... literally dont know anything about steam

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/15/steams-controller-redesigned-with-xbox-influences/

Several companies sell products that they just decide to give 0 advertising because it'd be waste for a multitude of reasons.

Except if you want to actually play a large part of the PC library you need to get windows on there...sounds more inconvenient if you ask me.

and you are a time traveler and therefore know valve wont advertize one of their biggest ventures yet right?

backwards compatibility is surely going to be an obstacle, thats like the only valid point youve brought up




im done discussing with you, i dont feel like teaching you everything about the steam machines, valve and game development just so we can have a proper discussion

 

[Rozalia1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

it just baffles me how much you want to keep arguing a video game developer, must do other stuff besides developing video games to be called a video game develper, i told you i wouldnt argue this point anymore, but since this is my last reply i might as well elabore this point one last time

you see, im a programmer, and since i love gaming, is not totally unexpected that ive created some game prototypes in the past, you know, all this time i thought those things i created were video games, they had graphics, game mechanics, winning and losing conditions, accepted user input, etc

but aparently since i dont use twitter and i havent attended to a single gaming related event in my entire life, i must not be a game developer, despite knowing how to program and having a good idea of how game mechanics should work, and despite the fact i have created digital interactive entertainment before, i am literally unable to make video games, those things i created cant be video games

how could i be so foolish, oh my!

how do i feel? disappointed? yes, but not quite defeated! because i know the very first moment i attend to a video game event, those things i created will retroactively become video games and ill become a video game developer at last!

When you call devs who do those things unprofessional for doing something their job requires them to do, than yes you are wrong. And of course I will now state that no in essence their tasks are not exactly supposed to me in that realm, but if their boss asks them to than they must do so as any professional would, this is of course something I've already stated before but I suppose I'll have to do so again.

you... literally dont know anything about steam

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/15/steams-controller-redesigned-with-xbox-influences/

Do you have to always do this? I ask a question on if the track pads were removed as I recall such a story and your response is a snide remark with an ellipses representing your bafflement thrown in.
I placed that question mark at the end for a reason.

and you are a time traveler and therefore know valve wont advertize one of their biggest ventures yet right?

backwards compatibility is surely going to be an obstacle, thats like the only valid point youve brought up

im done discussing with you, i dont feel like teaching you everything about the steam machines, valve and game development just so we can have a proper discussion

Don't see where that response comes from exactly. You find the fact of a company not advertising their own product for several reasons impossible, I told you otherwise...so clearly I think Valve invisible marketing the things is set in stone. Its very basic, they already have some exposure and advertising to a much wider audience may not necessarily net a return on their promoting.

More importantly, what valid points have you made on the steam-machines.

You've been telling me I know nothing seemingly every other post up to even telling me I was wrong on what professionalism meant. So no the nose up I'm better than you attitude isn't new no.