InXile's Brian Fargo Calls Steam PC Gaming's "Savior"

[NuclearKangaroo]

Or its no DRM (GOG style)

GoG is a niche service. Not a serious competitor to Steam.

Give it some time. When it got the rights to Alan Wake, the floodgates creaked open a bit.

And yes, if gog.com has something that Steam does, gog.com gets my dollar every time (unless Steam undercuts it by five dollars or more).

OT: He's not wrong.

Most publishers aren't going to accept no DRM whatsoever.

im not so sure, those guys are stubborn, but they can eventualy learn

 

[Rozalia1]

its funny you call that professionalism, because in any other business thats called being a shill

Yet they get paid and are more respectful than this guy.

plus those werent potshops, that was the simple truth, and it has been made very evident with the number of games released on Steam compared to any other gaming platform, and even Sony, they got a lot of games relesed on their platform after they opened their doors to indies

One of the things about being professional is knowing how to say something without antagonising other people when you have nothing to gain by doing so. When asked about the big three he should be stating that he someday wishes he could work together with them in bringing over his games to their platform, not "they hold guns to peoples heads man".

also what does it have to do with anything? hes comparing the current situation of PC to the "dark ages" and comparing PC to the console scene, explaining why he feels PC is such an ideal place for projects like his

Making it all dramatic is a common thing done by marks. As many already said PC gaming wasn't dead/dying and Valve isn't some Christ figure. To even imply such a thing is the sign of someone who has been well and truly played.
You're supposed to leave that to the customers, not indulge in it yourself (the dev, not you).

The fact that this man is still just a jobber after so long should teach you a lesson (as you want to be a game dev) in that you should play the game, not get played.

considering a huge chunk of my games library are made by "garage developers" some of them literally being made entirely/almost entirely by 1 single guy, and considering in my most delusional moment i hope to develop my own games someday, no i dont applaud this attitude, its short sighted, disrespectful and egocentrical

It's just business, not personal. Do you think its personal when Microsoft shut the door on all the indies? No, its just business.

the fact steam has more garbage nowadays does not stop me from enjoying the good stuff, and just because id support some curation in the store doesnt mean i think Valve should close its doors to potential developers

Than I guarantee you that if Valve does do what you wish than when the inevitable story comes out that Valve was unjust in some manner, you'll be on here saying how they shut the door too much.
That is why Valve like many businesses can gleefully ignore what you and others think, they know whats good for you.

 

[DrOswald]

Was PC gaming really that bad though? I only took a brief break from PC gaming when the original Xbox came out and I couldn't afford both, but it seems to have died and come back to life in those few years.

"[The console makers] put al sorts of guns to our head," said Fargo. "Valve has all this power but they don't wield it. They let us work in an open system. So for that I can't say good enough things about them."

Not sure I agree there. Consoles do impose a lot of restrictions but Valve are hardly angels. I like to think they're the good guys in this industry but they did bring in DRM for starters. Plus they kinda do exercise their power - not happy about the state of Steam's QA (or total lack thereof)? Tough. same goes for guarantees. You can't really turn away from Steam now as you're completely invested in it and most games are only available there.

Well Valve didn't invent DRM, they did invent charging the consumer for adding DRM to another companies product though. Pretty damn savvy when you think about it.

What do you mean by that? I really cannot figure it out. How does steam charge the consumer for the DRM? Can you clarify?

 

[DrOswald]

The fact that this man is still just a jobber after so long should teach you a lesson (as you want to be a game dev) in that you should play the game, not get played.

You are reducing Brian Fargo to a jobber? One of the most respected and successful executives in the history of gaming? Interesting. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Yet they get paid and are more respectful than this guy.

because they are PAID to be respectful, they, are, SHILLS

that IS unprofessional, because it you were to ask, say naughty dog, or any other developer paid by sony about the state of the PS3, at its very worst (2006-2007) they wouldnt give you an honest opinion based on their EXPERIENCE AS PROFESSIONALS, they wouldve given you an opinion bought by sony, they wouldve told you rumble was a thing of the past, that sixaxis was the future, and that TEH CELL was amazing, etc

hell today, probably many developers working for microsoft will tell you kinect is a good idea despite the fact its a complete trainwreck that increases the price of the xbox one for no reason, has seen no real implementation of its capabilities so far and is a complete localization nightmare

in short they are not using their knowledge as professionals to give opinions, unless being a shill is a profession now

One of the things about being professional is knowing how to say something without antagonising other people when you have nothing to gain by doing so. When asked about the big three he should be stating that he someday wishes he could work together with them in bringing over his games to their platform, not "they hold guns to peoples heads man".

what do you know about being a professional, really?

getting paid for your opinions being professinal, suger coating being professional, ridiculous

Making it all dramatic is a common thing done by marks. As many already said PC gaming wasn't dead/dying and Valve isn't some Christ figure. To even imply such a thing is the sign of someone who has been well and truly played.
You're supposed to leave that to the customers, not indulge in it yourself (the dev, not you).

The fact that this man is still just a jobber after so long should teach you a lesson (as you want to be a game dev) in that you should play the game, not get played.

there was an opinion, fairly widespread a few years ago that PC gaming was in decline, and its an absolute fact that steam has pushed PC gaming a long way, and its one of the main reasons why today PC gaming is a bigger market than consoles

now, did steam save PC? that is debatable, id say it helped, the point is, his opinion is not unfounded

It's just business, not personal. Do you think its personal when Microsoft shut the door on all the indies? No, its just business.

because having less games is the kind of stuff every game company wants, calling them garage developers was also very patronizing

Than I guarantee you that if Valve does do what you wish than when the inevitable story comes out that Valve was unjust in some manner, you'll be on here saying how they shut the door too much.
That is why Valve like many businesses can gleefully ignore what you and others think, they know whats good for you.

i have an idea, lets wait until something happens before making any ridiculous assumptions about it

 

[Nimzabaat]

How many devs aren't even bothering to port games to PC anymore? You can thank Valve for that.

Name me a developer or publisher who left the PC for this reason.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/134083-Destiny-Wont-Launch-on-PC-Because-it-Would-be-Too-Much-Work

Also, apparently Metal Gear Solid V, GTA V (Rockstar) won't be ported to PC, to name a few. Take Two Interactive (Rockstar, 2K) released a report stating that PC accounts for less than 20% of their focus, I seem to recall something similar from EA. Saying it's "too much work" means "too much work for too little return". If they could sell those games for full price on PC, they would release them on all platforms.

What do you mean by that? I really cannot figure it out. How does steam charge the consumer for the DRM? Can you clarify?

Well when you buy a game on Steam, the creater of said game doesn't get all of that money. Valve takes a bit for providing the distribution service, which includes DRM. So when you pay Valve for a game, you're paying for the DRM that is Steam.

 

[lacktheknack]

Or its no DRM (GOG style)

GoG is a niche service. Not a serious competitor to Steam.

Give it some time. When it got the rights to Alan Wake, the floodgates creaked open a bit.

And yes, if gog.com has something that Steam does, gog.com gets my dollar every time (unless Steam undercuts it by five dollars or more).

OT: He's not wrong.

Most publishers aren't going to accept no DRM whatsoever.

Probably not. But, if enough do, then gog.com will effectively be competition against Steam.

 

[Rozalia1]

The fact that this man is still just a jobber after so long should teach you a lesson (as you want to be a game dev) in that you should play the game, not get played.

You are reducing Brian Fargo to a jobber? One of the most respected and successful executives in the history of gaming? Interesting. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you.

Because experienced == Main eventer. The man is a jobber through and through, he was from the start and he still is today. Even popular jobbers are still jobbers, however maybe you're right and he is more of a low card guy...oh well.

because they are PAID to be respectful, they, are, SHILLS

that IS unprofessional, because it you were to ask, say naughty dog, or any other developer paid by sony about the state of the PS3, at its very worst (2006-2007) they wouldnt give you an honest opinion based on their EXPERIENCE AS PROFESSIONALS, they wouldve given you an opinion bought by sony, they wouldve told you rumble was a thing of the past, that sixaxis was the future, and that TEH CELL was amazing, etc

hell today, probably many developers working for microsoft will tell you kinect is a good idea despite the fact its a complete trainwreck that increases the price of the xbox one for no reason, has seen no real implementation of its capabilities so far and is a complete localization nightmare

in short they are not using their knowledge as professionals to give opinions, unless being a shill is a profession now

It seems you have one definition of professional and don't deviate from it. Those shills as you put it actually get something out of it, this guy gushing over Jesus Valve doesn't.

And? Those guys are clever and professional. What do you want them to do? Act like children and slam the Microsoft and get fired? Yeah they'd be total pros than.

there was an opinion, fairly widespread a few years ago that PC gaming was in decline, and its an absolute fact that steam has pushed PC gaming a long way, and its one of the main reasons why today PC gaming is a bigger market than consoles

now, did steam save PC? that is debatable, id say it helped, the point is, his opinion is not unfounded

Don't think for a second that both sides aren't trying to play you.

because having less games is the kind of stuff every game company wants, calling them garage developers was also very patronizing

Again, don't you want Valve to have less games on their platform? It seems to me to very hypocritical to want Valve to clean up all the trash, but to expect the big three to be covered in dirt.
Tell me something, Sony who is the most open of the three...do they just accept any common trash? No, they have certain standards and from what I've seen are trying to attract the best of the bunch. They are doing exactly what you want Valve to do.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

because they are PAID to be respectful, they, are, SHILLS

that IS unprofessional, because it you were to ask, say naughty dog, or any other developer paid by sony about the state of the PS3, at its very worst (2006-2007) they wouldnt give you an honest opinion based on their EXPERIENCE AS PROFESSIONALS, they wouldve given you an opinion bought by sony, they wouldve told you rumble was a thing of the past, that sixaxis was the future, and that TEH CELL was amazing, etc

hell today, probably many developers working for microsoft will tell you kinect is a good idea despite the fact its a complete trainwreck that increases the price of the xbox one for no reason, has seen no real implementation of its capabilities so far and is a complete localization nightmare

in short they are not using their knowledge as professionals to give opinions, unless being a shill is a profession now

It seems you have one definition of professional and don't deviate from it. Those shills as you put it actually get something out of it, this guy gushing over Jesus Valve doesn't.

And? Those guys are clever and professional. What do you want them to do? Act like children and slam the Microsoft and get fired? Yeah they'd be total pros than.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional

"professional: done or given by a person who works in a particular profession"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profession

"profession: a type of job that requires special education, training, or skill"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

"A video game developer is a software developer that specializes in video game development ? the process and related disciplines of creating video games."

at not point "getting something out of it" is on itself part of being a game developer, is not part of the PROFESSION of being a game developer, and when you say stuff that you as a GAME DEVELOPER know is wrong but you do it because of money, you are being UNPROFESSIONAL, thats the very definition of being unprofessional, doing something that degrades your profession or that is not custom to your profession

you are being asked your opinion AS A PROFESSIONAL about something, and you reply something, you, AS A PROFESSIONAL, dont believe, but you do it because of money, you-are-being-UNPROFESSIONAL

i dont have a definition of professional, THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PROFESSIONAL

i cant believe i have to explain this

Don't think for a second that both sides aren't trying to play you.

you have no idea what you are talking about, not even i understand what you are talking about

first valve is playing brian fargo, then brian fargo and valve are playing me, eh?

Again, don't you want Valve to have less games on their platform? It seems to me to very hypocritical to want Valve to clean up all the trash, but to expect the big three to be covered in dirt.
Tell me something, Sony who is the most open of the three...do they just accept any common trash? No, they have certain standards and from what I've seen are trying to attract the best of the bunch. They are doing exactly what you want Valve to do.

when did i say something even remotely similar? what i said is CURATION

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_curation

seriously do some research before you try to discuss

i dont care about shovelware making its way into steam, but Valve should take good care to sort the content in a way that gives the gems more spotlight and should make it easy for customers to find new and exciting games that might interest them, the user reviews and the tagging system seem to be providing some very basic framework for this in the future

ive seen enough things happen to steam to be fairly convinced the direction steam is heading (with some refinement of course) might just happen to be a good one

how can sony truthly know which game is going to be the very best? usually what they do is pick up whatever game that has been doing great on steam or any other platform, this means they are always playing catch up to valve, the PS4 got dont starve well after it was released on PC, same with outlast, same with rogue legacy, etc

the next surprise hit can come from anywhere, just look at papers please, by being so open Valve is sure to be one of the first places where those hits end up

not to mention subpar games can help game devs get some decent footing before they are experienced enough to release something great, like the developers of space miners, which right now are developing space engineers, the game is in early access and has earned quite a bit of following

 

[Rozalia1]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professional

"professional: done or given by a person who works in a particular profession"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/profession

"profession: a type of job that requires special education, training, or skill"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer

"A video game developer is a software developer that specializes in video game development - the process and related disciplines of creating video games."

at not point "getting something out of it" is on itself part of being a game developer, is not part of the PROFESSION of being a game developer, and when you say stuff that you as a GAME DEVELOPER know is wrong but you do it because of money, you are being UNPROFESSIONAL, thats the very definition of being unprofessional, doing something that degrades your profession or that is not custom to your profession

you are being asked your opinion AS A PROFESSIONAL about something, and you reply something, you, AS A PROFESSIONAL, dont believe, but you do it because of money, you-are-being-UNPROFESSIONAL

i dont have a definition of professional, THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PROFESSIONAL

i cant believe i have to explain this

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professionalism

you have no idea what you are talking about, not even i understand what you are talking about

first valve is playing brian fargo, then brian fargo and valve are playing me, eh?

Is Brian Fargo the big three now?

i dont care about shovelware making its way into steam, but Valve should take good care to sort the content in a way that gives the gems more spotlight and should make it easy for customers to find new and exciting games that might interest them, the user reviews and the tagging system seem to be providing some very basic framework for this in the future

Who decides if its shovelware or not? "Flap your bird crush saga 3: The quickening" might well be the next big thing so why shouldn't it get a spot on a front page? Why should Valve do this when you have the means to find those games anyway?

how can sony truthly know which game is going to be the very best? usually what they do is pick up whatever game that has been doing great on steam or any other platform, this means they are always playing catch up to valve, the PS4 got dont starve well after it was released on PC, same with outlast, same with rogue legacy, etc

You already nailed so it I'm not sure why you want further answers. There are many ways to look at something and see it as good enough, but success on the PC is one of them that is very useful.

not to mention subpar games can help game devs get some decent footing before they are experienced enough to release something great, like the developers of space miners, which right now are developing space engineers, the game is in early access and has earned quite a bit of following

Should Sony have early access too?

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/professionalism

and this all comes down to whenever this consider this disrespectful or not

but regardless, your opinion about people getting paid by their opinions reamins unprofessional under both or our definitons

Is Brian Fargo the big three now?

you spoke about "both sides"

Who decides if its shovelware or not? "Flap your bird crush saga 3: The quickening" might well be the next big thing so why shouldn't it get a spot on a front page? Why should Valve do this when you have the means to find those games anyway?

the critics? the customers? steam has user reviews and it shows the metascore of many of the games there

You already nailed so it I'm not sure why you want further answers. There are many ways to look at something and see it as good enough, but success on the PC is one of them that is very useful.

but again it means they are always playing catch up, if DayZ were to be released tomorrow, in its final form, on both the PS4 and PC, the PC version wouldve already sold over 1.7 million copies

Should Sony have early access too?

i dont see why not, people often look only at the bad side of early access, but for every scam artist out there there a hidden gem, or at the very least an interesting concept

Wasteland 2
Planetary Annihilation
Kerbal Space Program
DayZ
Rust
Starbound
Space Engineers
Insurgency
Divinity Original Sin
etc

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

It's not so much Steam as the general notion of backwards compatibility that has kept the PC afloat. It doesn't cost much to maintain a relatively decent PC that can run a whole bunch of decent games spanning a couple of decades, whereas each new console generation requires you to start over.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Well I will say this, either as a PC person I either spend $300 on a console and then $60 per game that I can't mod, or I spend $500 every 2 years on upgrading my pc but get games for $6 or $20 dollars with steam or the humble bundle. I think I choose the PC if only for the comfortability factor.

If someone has to spend $500 biannually they're a fool who spent it poorly in the first place. Also, current gen consoles start at $450 Stateside. While PCs have the *advantage* of being upgradeable (and customisable) on a per component basis (unlike consoles, which are locked down hardware and even hard drive upgrades are often not permitted) it is not necessary. The only circumstance it might be necessary is if you have to play the latest games on the highest settings with average hardware. But anyone who *has* to play the latest and greatest with all bell's and whistles will already have a rig well in excess of $500 to start with and everyone else will be happy with medium settings.

I could spec a gaming capable machine for $500, excluding KVM, that would last 4-5 years just fine. And that's not to forget that old components can also be sold second hand to contribute towards newer hardware for those choosing to keep upgraded. There's certainly no compulsion, requirement or necessity to spend so much. I built my first new PC in 4-5+ years just last Summer. Heck I went through two 360's in the same time as one PC.

Also, there's no such word as comfortability.

 

[Janaschi]

Enjoy perpetuating such asinine notions with your doomsayer judgments. Always makes me laugh a little inside when people wrap themselves up in their bubbles of political correctness so tightly, that they lose touch of the actual reality around them. Want to know the truth? The truth is that Fargo is wildly respected as both a developer and as a game industry advocate. The man can absolutely speak his mind if he chooses to, and his honesty is hand in hand with his motion to move away from the 600 pound gorillas to start pushing out independent projects away from the limitations and pressure publishers offer.

Sure, he has nothing to gain. But if the guy has an opinion, then he damn well has the God-given right to share that opinion, and he should not have to worry about people like you getting so offended and politically correct over every little thing in life. Should not care, but it is the so many people also like that that feeds this line-of-thinking and keeps it alive. What makes it funny, though, is that Brian Fargo will do just fine on his own, just as he always has.

I don't think your endorsement elevates him to "widely respected", in fact if he was than his little potshots will soon see to that. As for restrictions you should know there is a little thing called standards (which Valve apparently doesn't have), so if the big three told him to go peddle his broken mess elsewhere than perhaps he should git gud.

Its business, he should know better.

so... you like liars, shills and hypocrites over people that just express how they genuinely feel about the industry?

anyways im no game developer (yet) so i cant really comment on the state of the industry from inside nowadays, but since it has been known for a while console manufacturers put all kinds of restrictions on game devs, it shouldnt be surprising to know they are still doing it, to some extent

he is a game dev, i think there must be some level of truth in his comments

Who said I like them? I merely stated that when they do it they are in on it, this guy on the other hand is getting played. He could have expressed himself professionally and he chose not to.

So because he is a game dev everything that comes out of his mouth is truth. If so than I have some devs waiting to tell you about what a wonderful company EA is.
He throws up no evidence to back himself up, hell he doesn't even say what exactly they did to earn his ire. You can come back with talk of Microsoft but that wasn't who he was solely talking about was it.

I would reply further, but you have made it utterly clear that you are ignorant of Brian Fargo's accomplishments, and you seem inclined to keep yourself willfully ignorant while spewing out your politically correct nonsense. Get yourself educated of the facts before you continue making a fool of yourself.

 

[Xan Krieger]

It's the best thing Valve ever invented and I thank them for it and the Portal series. As a company with only two good games to their credit they've done so much for PC gaming and I believe the main factor is sales. When they have things like their summer or winter sales I think many people, myself included, will even buy games we wouldn't normally because the price drops to something insignificant. I know some companies want those sales to end but I wouldn't doubt if they're responsible for selling a ton of games.

Your "only two good games" to their credit is massively biased. If you look at their games objectively the half-life series, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, Portal series, Counter Strike series, Left 4 Dead series are all "good games".

Maybe it was only two games you enjoyed but if you look at the reviews and general sales performance of their games in general valve has far more than two good games to their name.

The people that live in The Sticks, Maine actually hate Vavle because they all but destroyed PC gaming because the highest internet speeds are from DSL.

I only have DSL, we are talking 350kb download rate max. I've almost 200 games now on steam. So I dunno are these people on download caps or something?

It's the best thing Valve ever invented and I thank them for it and the Portal series. As a company with only two good games to their credit they've done so much for PC gaming and I believe the main factor is sales. When they have things like their summer or winter sales I think many people, myself included, will even buy games we wouldn't normally because the price drops to something insignificant. I know some companies want those sales to end but I wouldn't doubt if they're responsible for selling a ton of games.

Only two games...?

Half Life
Half Life 2
Portal
Portal 2
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2
Dota 2
Team Fortress 2
All the Counter Strike games

...?

I know they're not the most prolific games developer but they've made more than two good games.

It's the best thing Valve ever invented and I thank them for it and the Portal series. As a company with only two good games...

hahaha only 2?

Yes it is massively biased in that it's my opinion having played all of them except Dota 2. I'm not anti-Valve, I love Steam and the Portal series and I'd love to see a Portal 3. It's just that the other games have either been average, or in the case of Team Fortress 2 outright boring. Yes in my opinion they've only made 2 good games.

 

[Rozalia1]

and this all comes down to whenever this consider this disrespectful or not

And I do.

but regardless, your opinion about people getting paid by their opinions reamins unprofessional under both or our definitons

No it doesn't, they are doing their job properly and respectfully. That is being professional.

you spoke about "both sides"

And now you know who I meant.

the critics? the customers? steam has user reviews and it shows the metascore of many of the games there

Gems aren't necessarily decided by number of consumers, or by critics opinions. Many games would no doubt not qualify and there is always someone who'll end up upset.

but again it means they are always playing catch up, if DayZ were to be released tomorrow, in its final form, on both the PS4 and PC, the PC version wouldve already sold over 1.7 million copies

Indies don't really sell consoles on their own, they do add value of course which is why Sony wants them.
Letting it run its course on PC is an easy way to sort the good from the bad, and don't Sony require some exclusive (timed) additional content on top of your release? Didn't lone survivor have to or something?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/10/23/sony-allows-lone-survivor-exclusive-content-to-release-on-pc-early.aspx

I recall that those early Xbox 360 exclusive RPGs all required exclusive content before they could be sold too so I'm assuming its company policy (which I'm sure they drop if the game is big enough).
All in all the exclusive content is an attraction, they are priced cheaply, and from I've seen a lot of them come out with a PS+ discount on release so all in all quite a few people may well just buy the game again.

I'm not arguing something here with you, merely saying that releases of indies on consoles aren't disappointments if they sell less than they did on the PC.

I would reply further, but you have made it utterly clear that you are ignorant of Brian Fargo's accomplishments, and you seem inclined to keep yourself willfully ignorant while spewing out your politically correct nonsense. Get yourself educated of the facts before you continue making a fool of yourself.

And twice now you've had the opportunity to state these accomplishments/facts and didn't.
Secondly its not being politically correct, there are ways you should conduct yourself especially if your words may well have consequences for more than yourself.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

No it doesn't, they are doing their job properly and respectfully. That is being professional.

while lying and letting their judgement be bought, yeah sure, but they are "respectful", do i have to bring up the dictionary definition again?

And now you know who I meant.

not really you keep using these vague terms about people being played and stuff

Gems aren't necessarily decided by number of consumers, or by critics opinions. Many games would no doubt not qualify and there is always someone who'll end up upset.

i wasnt talking about number of consumers, i was talking about consumer feedback, you know, those reviews steam allows their customers to post

and if a gem cant be meansured by the response of critics or customers, then it aint a gem pal

Indies don't really sell consoles on their own, they do add value of course which is why Sony wants them.
Letting it run its course on PC is an easy way to sort the good from the bad, and don't Sony require some exclusive (timed) additional content on top of your release? Didn't lone survivor have to or something?

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/10/23/sony-allows-lone-survivor-exclusive-content-to-release-on-pc-early.aspx

I recall that those early Xbox 360 exclusive RPGs all required exclusive content before they could be sold too so I'm assuming its company policy (which I'm sure they drop if the game is big enough).
All in all the exclusive content is an attraction, they are priced cheaply, and from I've seen a lot of them come out with a PS+ discount on release so all in all quite a few people may well just buy the game again.

I'm not arguing something here with you, merely saying that releases of indies on consoles aren't disappointments if they sell less than they did on the PC.

ignoring the elephant in the room that is minecraft, theres DayZ, Rust and Starbound, these are some games with very high demand, but on a sony console on top of getting unmoddable versions that often look worse than the PC version, they get their version late

you are seriously underestimating the power of indie games

 

[Rozalia1]

while lying and letting their judgement be bought, yeah sure, but they are "respectful", do i have to ring up the dictionary definition again?

And I'll give you mine again.

i wasnt talking about number of consumers, i was talking about consumer feedback, you know, those reviews steam allows their customers to post

and if a gem cant be meansured by the response of critics or customers, then it aint a gem pal

You are aware that there are many pieces of media (not just games, but lets just talk of games here) that receive good reviews from critics but sell practically nothing. Likewise there are games that get absolutely slated by critics, but sell loads due to people loving them.

ignoring the elephant in the room that is minecraft, theres DayZ, Rust and Starbound, these are some games with very high demand, but on a sony console on top of getting unmoddable versions that often look worse than the PC version, they get their version late

you are seriously underestimating the power of indie games

I'm not underestimating them, I know their worth and I know they don't move units by themselves. And before you say it I am not talking about the PC, just consoles in the case of moving units. As I said they can get some timed exclusive DLC out of it, its cheap, and people may not have even been aware of it as not everyone knows every indie hit that is out there. If the customer likes the game enough they may well go out and get the PC version on top so its win win for everyone.