Is a fanfiction depicting the murder of Randy Pitchford ok?

[Doom972]

I get the hypocrisy part - when people made fanfictions/drawings which depict her getting killed/rape she had a problem with it (she mentions this at TED, IIRC), but it's ok for her as long as it's someone else.

Is it wrong to write fanfictions depicting a real person getting murdered/raped? Probably. I can think of certain exceptions (if it's done in a very humorous and unrealistic manner, or if said person gave his/her consent for example). If it actually depicts her gunning down employees at the Gearbox office and eventually Randy Pitchford, I can see where you're coming from.

She definitely loses a lot of respect for not following her own standards.

 

[tardcore]

What a lot of chin wagging over nothing. How can a work of fiction be considered reality? Writing a silly little sarcastic fantasy about killing a person for making a terribly shitty video game is not a real life template to commit murder. Nor will it incite a normal rational and sane individual to try to commit actual murder. And if you feel it is and/or can, let me ask; Are all the erotic slash fan-fictions on the internet about real people a template for rape?

I find the whole argument of fantasy vs reality to be completely batshit insane. As batshit insane for instance as saying that a collection of soulless pixels that exist for the sole purpose of being exploited and controlled by a game player, with zero autonomy of their own, is an equal equivalent of real life people, and therefor must be accorded the same rights and considerations as real people.

For those of you here dismissing this story as a harmless work of fiction with no bearing on real life, I happen to agree with you. Thing is though by those same rules I also dismiss Anita Sarkeesian's "video game tropes are sexist and can make people sexist" theories for the same exact reason.

So I have to ask, which is it? Is it harmless and meaningless fiction or does it show that the writer harbors a true and deep desire to actually murder a real life person? Because I think it has to be one or the other, not both.

 

[Bocaj2000]

Neither are funny and both are bad, but for different reasons. The flash game is seen as bad is because Anita's cyberbullying. The flash game isn't critisism nor parody; it is just more cyberbullying. The Randy Pitchford fan fic, on the other hand, has no context and is just a random act of cartoon violence with the intent to parody. If you don't understand why context changes people's view on things, then your delusional.

If the flash game was simply a "random act of cartoon violence with the intent to parody", would people still white knight over it? Or would it not get as much attention from the gaming press like the Randy Pitchford fan fic?

And no, this isn't a case of "sacred cow". That trope is specifically for criticism and calling out flaws, not cyberbullying.

The entire Anita thing is a case of "sacred cow". Any criticism or calling out her flaws is met with "she has received death threads...etc" or simply personal insults/accusations of misogyny.

Did you even read what I wrote? Go back and read everything that I have written on this post. Then make a response when you want to have a civil conversation. If your response is civil and respectful towards me, then we will continue our discussion, but if you're still antagonizing and dismissive, then I'll probably laugh from my chair and ignore you.

How am I antagonizing you? Is antagonizing a form of cyberbullying?
If a form of media that depicted violence towards Anita was presented as a parody and not cyberbullying would that change people's views on things?
No, people would still white knight over it (more than anybody has done over Randy) because of who she is and not because of context.
That's not a dismissal it's a rebuttal.

If you're not going to reply then I am just going to assume you are backing out of the argument. "re-read my post" is just an anti-debating tactic that is as old as the internet.

The term "white knight" is a term used to antagonize and dismiss anyone who would dare defend a woman on the internet. It's used by people like you do dismiss my argument. That's why I thought I'd be wasting my time. Thank you for clarifying that you weren't dismissing my arguments.

As for the point you're trying to make, I disagree completely. Context is everything. This is a fact of life. Whenever privileged white men ask "Why can X do this and not me?" it is because of the context within the culture surrounding it for both parties. This is the case with racial issues as well as gender issues.

As for Anita... Yes, there are always people who would defend her just because of who she is, BUT there are also people who would attack her because of who she is. This was the case long before the cyberbullying, and if the flash game came out then, no one would really give a shit. It would be just another celebrity beat-em-up/assassination. It's a whole genre on Newgrounds. BUT with the context of the thousands upon thousands of threats that she has gotten, the flash game now has a different meaning entirely whether it was intended or not. It's no longer random, but an addition to the pile of threats.

Contrast that to Randy. He's a rich white guy. As far as I know, he doesn't have a history of bullying. As far as I know, he doesn't have a history of death threats. As far as I know, the fan fiction Anita "kinda liked" isn't that popular. Does Randy even give a shit about this Spiderman fan fiction?

So that's why context is important. When some one gets thousands of threats, it changes the context of why someone would make media depicting their pain and/or death. That's why I said the Randy was a random act of cartoon violence, and why no one cares.

 

[nuttshell]

This thread is interesting because of the question whether it is okay to write fanfics or ever books about the murder of a character which is clearly to be intended a real person is a good question*

It is very alarming to live in a society which asks to remove fiction because they are offended by it. And they do, on a regular basis everywhere these days.

...or someone makes a game in which you can kill them or beat them up**, that is another case...

I assume, you have the game with Anita in mind. Have you even looked at it? The link to it is even on the first page of this thread.

 

[Hagi]

Don't think there's anything wrong with it.

I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to expect adults to be able to distinguish between fiction and reality. And that story is, very clearly, fiction.

At the same time, I wouldn't count it as the smartest move...

She's made herself a public persona for a certain cause and that comes with a certain amount of scrutiny. Posting something like this, whilst definitely not wrong, also isn't really helping either I'd say.

 

[Tenkage]

I get the hypocrisy part - when people made fanfictions/drawings which depict her getting killed/rape she had a problem with it (she mentions this at TED, IIRC), but it's ok for her as long as it's someone else.

Is it wrong to write fanfictions depicting a real person getting murdered/raped? Probably. I can think of certain exceptions (if it's done in a very humorous and unrealistic manner, or if said person gave his/her consent for example). If it actually depicts her gunning down employees at the Gearbox office and eventually Randy Pitchford, I can see where you're coming from.

She definitely loses a lot of respect for not following her own standards.

This is what I am trying to explain. If she is offended by depictions of her being hurt or killed. she can not at the same time be ok with stories of people she doesn't like being hurt or killed.

 

[Lightknight]

Well, men are clearly evil and that Randy Pitchford person is totally a dude. So this is clearly a subtle novella regarding the subject of triumph over evil. Now, had it been some chick like Paris Hilton or something then Anita would likely have a problem with it.

 

[Frankster]

It's ok in my book to write whatever fanfic you want with whatever content you want as a general rule and so it is here.

But i admit had the fanfic been about anita rather then randy, she would probably have kicked up quite a bit of a fuss, so rather tactless of her to give it any approval.

Oh and regarding certain posters who seem to be implying that if anita were the target of the fanfic it would be any different, then i disagree big time, difference in gender/status/wealth doesn't mean jack all to me.
Either it's ok to write twisted fanfics of everyone or it's not, the notion that only certainly people are acceptable targets whilst others are sacred cows is a notion i find offensive.

 

[WanderingFool]

EDIT: It has come to my attention that Anita has many supporters and think she can do no wrong. I present to you from her own Bible that is T.V. Tropes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SacredCow The sacred cow trope.

http://femfreq.tumblr.com/
It has come to my attention that Anita Sarkeesian has posted on her tumbler a fanfiction in which she and Spider man team up to take down Gearbox, and has her shooting and killing Randy Pitchford, "For Alien's Colonel Marines". She is ok with this fanfiction. She posted it saying, "I kinda like it"

Is this ok? Don't know about you, but I don't think its ok. Because it shows she is a hypocrite, that its ok to kill someone you don't like. And to anyone who says, "You are just trying to hate on her" and "It's just a joke"

To the first, no I am not, people have gone to court for writing stories detailing themselves killing someone who is real. Just because she didn't write the story, she still condones it.

Two, by that logic, any of the death threats she has gotten, can be considered a joke, by that logic.

Movie Bob and Jim Sterling, if you are reading this (and I doubt it) tell me, is she the mark of a good "critic" if she is willing to be like this.

And to the Escapist, I don't care if you take down this forum and ban me. Because I am not promoting hate speech, I am just showing the facts, giving my opinion, and letting people who read this to come up with their own answer and opinion.

For starters, thats just wrong. Are there a lot of people pissed at how ACM turned out, yeah. But a fanfiction with Pitchford getting killed over it? The fuck is wrong with you people[footnote]Not directed at anyone on this site, just a general "you".[/footnote]

Secondly, If anita did actually say something along the lines of support for this, than I feel any credibility she had prior should be cinders by now.

 

[Doom972]

I get the hypocrisy part - when people made fanfictions/drawings which depict her getting killed/rape she had a problem with it (she mentions this at TED, IIRC), but it's ok for her as long as it's someone else.

Is it wrong to write fanfictions depicting a real person getting murdered/raped? Probably. I can think of certain exceptions (if it's done in a very humorous and unrealistic manner, or if said person gave his/her consent for example). If it actually depicts her gunning down employees at the Gearbox office and eventually Randy Pitchford, I can see where you're coming from.

She definitely loses a lot of respect for not following her own standards.

This is what I am trying to explain. If she is offended by depictions of her being hurt or killed. she can not at the same time be ok with stories of people she doesn't like being hurt or killed.

Then again, does it surprise you that much? That's the sort of behavior you can expect from her. Every one of her videos screams double standard.
Don't expect any of her followers to change their views on her based on this. After all, she is the shining beacon of feminism in video games. As long as she has this unofficial title, she can get away with pretty much everything.

 

[JarinArenos]

I've been killed in silly fanfiction. I've also featured in at least one silly slashfic. I didn't find either particularly offensive. A lot of the issue is tone. Comedy is in the eye of the beholder, but this doesn't strike me as at all serious. There's an absurdly huge gulf between something like this and making death threats, even if you don't really mean them. I can't see how anyone could equate them without being willfully blind.

 

[Depulcator]

Welcome to the internet! Stay longer and that will look tame, enjoy your stay!

 

[wulf3n]

Tell me why the fuck does no one analyze Yahtzee Croshaw? Or Jim Sterling? Or any number of these so-called video game personalities. And yes some probably do, but the number of times that Anita is scrutinized compared to the average video game personality is probably about 20:1.

Don't you just love unverifiable opinions paraded as "facts"

20:1 do you have any evidence of this? What constitutes scrutiny?

No one analysed Jim Sterling? Plenty of people "analysed" Jim Sterling, even ignoring the vitriol he received at the start of his series, he still receives plenty of "analysis" every week on his videos.

The key difference between Anita and other personalities is that they don't censor discussion. Perhaps the analysis appears so widespread, because they don't have a voice where it matters.

How many people have threatened to rape Jim or Yahtzee?

How many people have threatened to rape Anita?

Enough for it to become an issue of public discussion across the entire gaming community. Ie significant

That's not an answer.

You're trying to make a comparison between Jim, Yahtzee and Anita but you don't have any evidence. Therefore you can't make any valid conclusions.

Your assertion that Anita receives more threats is based solely on the fact that she talks about it more, but that doesn't prove that she receives more.

 

[PH3NOmenon]

Can someone just post the toy story meme saying "Hypocrites, hypocrites everywhere." and /thread this whole thing?

Captcha: Yeah I'm starting to feel like it, sentient overlord.

 

[DaWaffledude]

Jesus Christ people, just calm the fuck down. It's not a death threat, it's a bit of tongue-in-cheek. I swear to God, you're just looking for excuses to hate the woman.

 

[Dogstile]

Wait, Anita, please, don't kill me. You're right, the systemic problems of sexist depictions of women in the games needs to be stopped, and Gearbox can join you.

That's for Aliens: Colonial Marines.

Who can blame her? I kinda like it too.

It's just a mildly amusing story about terrible games. She said "I think I kind like it" and for some reason you're reading "its ok to kill someone you don't like". I'm sorry, OP, but you're taking things too seriously.

So what happens if I write a story where I shoot her, and say, "That was for your Tropes VS Women in Video games videos"

Would you still say the same thing? If not, why?

If you're the kind of guy who is satisfied with "I hope you get raped", I obviously wouldn't find amusing. Now, when writing something witty and interesting, you can do a lot worse than killing a character. Your story doesn't sound very original, but I hope you keep trying.

The obvious joke is that Colonial Marines sucks and virtually everyone agrees. Maybe that's too edgy for you (I'm not criticizing, by the way, just giving my perspective), but that doesn't sound like hate speech at all.

To be fair, the majority of the internet thinks that tropes vs women sucks, especially seeing as what it's bringing "to light" is already heavily acknowledged in feminist circles. Its basically a circle jerk of "hey, look how bad this is" with no real means for improvement.

Which makes me think that the guy has a point. You can say the exact same thing. "The obvious joke is that tropes vs women sucks and virtually everyone agrees".

Aside from that, didn't someone make a game where you kill Anita? Or at least beat her up. It was a different story then. But then I suppose that's delving into the games vs books argument again isn't it, seeing as people don't bat an eye to things like fifty shades, but will then be against pornography for being to explicit.

Edit: Oh shit, this was a six page thread. Sorry about that.

 

[maninahat]

This is basically the same old "why is it okay for a girl to hit a guy, but not a guy to hit a girl?" argument in a different dress. I don't know why it really needs explaining. As some commentator once put it on rockpapershotgun: "If it doesn?t start out equal, then turnabout is not fair play."