is "affirmative action" further spreading race issues in our society?

[Mr.Pandah]

There are many ways to look at this particular topic, but the stance that I take on it is that I don't owe anybody anything. I'm not going to apologize for what some white guy has done to someone of a different ethnicity. I didn't do it, so stop shoving that stuff in my face.

Affirmative Action hurts more than it helps in my opinion. I feel like it would make more people prone to be lazy than anything else. Plus the racial lines are drawn pretty damn clearly with AA. I was a victim of AA anyways, so I know how bullshit it is. I had a 3.8 GPA, and I wanted to transfer to another college. Apparently, since I'm a white boy, my GPA wasn't deemend high enough for even half scholarship. They were giving it to the other men and women going there who were Indian, Asian, or black. I had a 2,000 dollar scholarship to a 36,000 dollar school. At least I could pay for books...

Its just a load of shit that needs to be done away with in my opinion.

Wow you really are a victim. When you go shopping you are not followed around by security. When you apply for a loan you will probably get it. When you drive around in a nice car you won't be pulled over. If you have stand in front of a jury probably get a less harsh sentence or depending on the state get off because the DA will try to pin it on the nearest minority.
I guess you like to be angry because of inconveniences you have suffered but you still managed to go to school and I assume get a decent job but if it wasn't for AA those opportunities would not exist at all for many minorities. It doesn't solve the problem that wealth and political clout remains mainly in the hands of the few. I would love to live in a world where your education is not affected by the zip code of where you live and to stand in front of a jury and not fear being railroaded because I look different and to be respected and treated like everyone else when I am in public but I am not.

My teacher called my a mentally retarded, pathological liar after I read a summary of an article I read in "Discover" science magazine in front of the whole class. We had a cluster program so I saw her next year and she started the year discussing the article I read last year so basically I was a year ahead of the class on one subject so she decided that to save herself the hassle of mentioning a subject she was not going to touch for another year by humiliated me in front of the class. And the kicker, she was black. She just hated Latinos.

My silver haired mother had a gun drawn and pointed at her by an officer while driving her car because she apparently fit the description of a suspect. I don't know how many silver haired old ladies in Corrolas are evading capture in America but the cop let her go eventually.

My brother had a bottle of wine in a paper bag when two officers stopped him on the subway, took his bottle, opened it, drained it and arrested him for drinking in public.

Oh let me shed a tear for every white man inconvenienced in his life because of AA.

Yeah, well when you can't pay for the tuition, it is a problem. I was only able to go for a semester, so get over yourself. I don't need to hear about the problems you face as a latino because I was speaking about AA, and the racism that is caused through that. You just explained racism. I would've shed a tear for you if you weren't so in my face about it.

I respect everyone equally, so don't take your fight up with me because I'm a "whitey". You don't think that shit like this happens to white people as well? I'm sick of all this bullshit getting spewed at white people because everyone thinks we owe someone something. My ancestors had to work just as hard as yours are right now to get to where they are today. Equal opportunity my ass.

The majority of people will work less since you can't motivate people. In the workplace, this is true, and I take it to be true in school as well.

And I love the fact that as soon as a white person says something is wrong with the way it works, they get pounced on for their views of it because they're white. You're making this more racist then the situation has already called for.

Blanco tell me why your are crying because you had trouble transferring from one college to another.
You got into college then you changed your mind about it and you tried to go to another college you could not afford so you just had one semester at the new college.
Hey, how much money you spent just to get into the first college you chose? If I was an administer at the second college I would invest in the freshmans who need the most help as for a sophomore like you I would expect that you to know the ropes and make a sensible decision on what you can and cannot afford.
My guess, you reached for the brass ring, overstretched, fell and now you are trying to find someone to blame for your scoffed up knee. Just because you couldn't finish what you started is not AA's fault. Take your 3.8 GPA and prove it's worth more than paper it's written on find the college that will want you and give you what you want.
If you can't go Ivy League go state, can't go state go community,can't go community go Canadian eh.
All else fails go military, get free hair cuts and all the brown people you can kill.
If you gave up it's on you. No one else.
Now, as for your ancestors, how many were force sterilized, exposed to lethal levels of radiation in laced foods, denied life saving medical care to protect Syphillis research, abandoned on the frontlines during World War 2, denied federal aid under the GI Bill, sodomized with a broom stick by the police in the police station and this was just the last hundred years.
I can't feel your pain because you have not suffered. You have been inconvenienced, perturbed, and or delayed in your goals but you have not been victimized.

You really have a chip on your shoulder don't you? You're right about one thing, I'd hate to be you. This isn't about the color of your skin either, this is because you're an asshole.

 

[captainwalrus]

Two things.

1. I'm personally wary of affirmative action programs because they are blind to class disparities. If a child grows up in a rich black family, he will most likely have the material, support, and educational networks available that will lead him to succeed. His family will be able to provide both the financial and emotional support that he will require in his formative years, while he will be able to go to either a well-funded public school, or a private school. However, a poor, white child will not have the sense of financial stability. He will most likely go to an under-funded public school, and if he lives in a bad neighborhood, be detrimentally influenced during his formative years.

Fixing egregious class disparities is more important than fixing racial disparities in creating an ethno-economic equilibrium, as the current affirmative action policies only truly help those minorities who are already financially stable. They do not solve the problem of children being raised in deteriorating urban environments, regardless of race (though a greater proportion of those living in urban centers are minorities).

2. Not a problem, but something to take into account. Affirmative action is NOT a black entitlement program. Nor is it any type of racial entitlement program. WHITE WOMEN are the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action policies. Affirmative action programs seek to rectify current - GLARING - economic disparities seen in the workforce. Namely, the glass ceiling that racial minorities and women encounter as they rise in the workforce.

 

[jad4400]

I have to say that I do not enjoy any of these programs such as Affirmative Action and Political correctness.

When we look at what affirmative action means, it seems to me that we are just inflaming more hearts than healing them. Why do minoritys specifically deserve special treatment when it come to college and job appications? Because they were oppresed in the past and some do not have some qualifications white people have when applying for these positions? So what even if I have better skills and qualifications than a minority I won't be given the position I warrent because a minority is more "deserving" becasue of past wrongs?

Many of these people who still insist that initatives such as AA are nessisary in today's society, need to take a good long look at what society focuses on nowadays. Nowadays, corperations will hire peole with the best skills because IT MAKES THE COMPANY MORE MONEY!!! Corperations for the most part don't care who you are (unless you have a criminal record) and only want the people with the BEST skills so they can make a better profit. Todays sociey is very qualification based and nowdays I belive AA is used by people who want a job, but don't possess some of the better qualifications others might have, so these people play the race card.

Look, I kow that racism is a very dark chapter in any nation's history or even for that matter any cultures history. However if we keep going back any trying to figure out who wrong who, we are just going to make more people angry and filled with race related anger and when we try to force programs such as AA down everybodys throat's this just inflames the issue. I've seen the "work place sensitivity" videos and those are just stupid. For me it just showed some messed up fake stereotypes that I didn't know existed and said that I need to get along with others of different races and genders, gee like I didn't know that already.

AA just creates a form of reverse discrimination nowadays and has outlived its purpose, it really should be done away with.

 

[YuheJi]

I'm not saying slavery wasn't abhorrent and that any such treatment shouldn't be reparated for. What I'm saying is that you cannot hold people today responsible for actions of people from 100+ years ago. You cannot say accountability spans several generations. No one alive today was a slave, nor were they a slave owner. If you want to hold someone responsible, you can dig up their corpses and lecture them all you want.

But consider the fact that lynchings of blacks, and black sympathizers (including Jews and other people of color) did not really stop until well into the 1960s. And just because a government did not create the mess does not mean that it shouldn't have to clean it up. Slavery isn't exactly the only thing that has happened to blacks and other people of color throughout U.S. history.

It also interests me how a lot of white people are so convinced that the person of color that the college accepted was not as qualified as them. And how AA is still blamed when people get accepted or rejected from college in California (Prop 209 did away with it back in 1996). Sure, you could look at GPA and test scores, but that isn't exactly all that colleges look at.

 

[Agayek]

But consider the fact that lynchings of blacks, and black sympathizers (including Jews and other people of color) did not really stop until well into the 1960s. And just because a government did not create the mess does not mean that it shouldn't have to clean it up. Slavery isn't exactly the only thing that has happened to blacks and other people of color throughout U.S. history.

Replace "slavery" with whatever form of discrimination you wish.

I had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. Therefore, I owe them nothing.

You can cry for reparations all you want, just call for them from the responsible party, as/for the victimized party.

Saying that the current generation of generic white males has a responsibility to repay the current generation of blacks for slavery is exactly the same as saying a baby should serve jail time because its father raped its mother. It's completely illogical and doesn't accomplish anything.

Edit:
Personally, I think the government should go fuck itself and have nothing to do with the lives of its citizens beyond protecting basic human rights (life, liberty and property essentially), so I can't agree with the "cleaning up the mess" bit.

 

[littlerob]

As long as people accept that there are differences between groups of people (in this case, blacks and whites - incidentally, why should 'blacks' be seen as racist when 'whites' is not? Surely it should be both or none?) then there will be. As long as laws are written acknowledging that blacks and whites are somehow different, then they will be.

The only way for racism to stop is if people stop seeing other people in terms of race. Which, unfortunately, is probably never going to happen.

 

[YuheJi]

But consider the fact that lynchings of blacks, and black sympathizers (including Jews and other people of color) did not really stop until well into the 1960s. And just because a government did not create the mess does not mean that it shouldn't have to clean it up. Slavery isn't exactly the only thing that has happened to blacks and other people of color throughout U.S. history.

Replace "slavery" with whatever form of discrimination you wish.

I had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. Therefore, I owe them nothing.

You can cry for reparations all you want, just call for them from the responsible party, as/for the victimized party.

Saying that the current generation of generic white males has a responsibility to repay the current generation of blacks for slavery is exactly the same as saying a baby should serve jail time because its father raped its mother. It's completely illogical and doesn't accomplish anything.

Most government officials were born in the 40s and 30s, back when lynching and discrimination ran rampant. This is not something that happened years and years ago. It is something that still happens today. Why is the government still filled out with mainly white men? How many Asian or Latino officials can you name? Racial discrimination is not a thing of the past, but something that still exists today, though to a lesser extent than it might have been fifty years ago.

 

[Agayek]

Most government officials were born in the 40s and 30s, back when lynching and discrimination ran rampant. This is not something that happened years and years ago. It is something that still happens today. Why is the government still filled out with mainly white men? How many Asian or Latino officials can you name? Racial discrimination is not a thing of the past, but something that still exists today, though to a lesser extent than it might have been fifty years ago.

Then get reparations from the government officials that participated in such things. Don't try to extract it from "Group A" because some members decided to be fuckwits.

Racial discrimination definitely exists today, but don't punish people that have nothing to do with it. Punish the discriminators.

 

[YuheJi]

The only way for racism to stop is if people stop seeing other people in terms of race. Which, unfortunately, is probably never going to happen.

That will only toss it aside, and not deal with it. It's not seeing others in terms of race that's the problem. It's hating each other because of race. We have to realize that each race does have its own heritage and background. They are not all the same, and they do not all value the same things. For example, an Asian man who is quiet but works hard might be considered not vocal enough to be a leader in America, simply because his race typically values attributes that other races might not. It is the lack of respect for the beliefs and heritage of other races that causes problems.

 

[Agayek]

The term "hate crime" is meaningless and needs to be abolished.

If you murder someone for money that you don't hate, that's first-degree murder. If you kill someone you hate when you find them committing adultery with your spouse and you're enraged by your hate, that's manslaughter.

Not only is the term "hate crime" not meaningless, the meaning behind it actually will sometimes *mitigate* the punishment and can be the difference between capital punishment and getting less than a life sentence; not only is it not a product of Political Correctness, the concept goes back to old-timey English Common Law.

Won't argue the first bit as you raise good points and I don't have counters readily available.

That said, it doesn't matter if you killed them cuz they're black, or if they fucked your wife, or if they just picked a fight and it went too far. Reasons or intentions don't matter, only actions do.

Different forms of murder are still murder. Whether you skin them alive, run over them with a car, or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge. They're just as dead to one as the other. Mitigating punishment for that, for any reason, is ludicrous.

The term "hate crime" doesn't mean a damned thing. You killed someone because you hated them. Congratulations. They're still just as dead as if you'd accidentally run them over with a semi.

Degrees of and different names for murder are just as ludicrous. There's murder, the willful act of taking another life, accidental murder, the accidental act of taking another's life, and warranted murder, the act of taking the life of one who forced you into the situation (such as self-defense). No more, and no less.

All forms of murder deserve the death penalty, imposed quickly, efficiently and brutally.

All forms of accidental murder deserve long prison sentences.

All forms of warranted murder deserve short prison sentences.

It's as simple as that.

 

[sabotstarr]

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

no. White people no longer have to do this. It happened in THE PAST. i did not do it, my parents did not do it, nor do anyone i know do it. If you as a person still feel guilty about slavery then you my friend have been brainwashed. I no longer feel guilty that white people participated in slavery, but i am sad that it was a prominent part in my nations history, and that the US government did not end it sooner.

 

[vampirekid.13]

That said, it doesn't matter if you killed them cuz they're black, or if they fucked your wife, or if they just picked a fight and it went too far. Reasons or intentions don't matter, only actions do.

That may be your belief, but you shouldn't just criticize hate crimes then on the basis of 'all crimes are about hate' or as if the ones having to do with race are the only ones that work like this. You should always let it be known that your criticism is on the basis of your belief that "Reasons or intentions don't matter, only actions do."

In other words, don't make it seem like you have a problem with hate crimes because you feel they are racist--make it explicit that you have a problem with hate crimes because you have an issue with a major element of Anglo-American law that goes back for hundreds of years.

heh, i feel that having different punishments for the same crime against a different group is racist.

i feel it spreads the problem.

im not racist, but i feel uncomfortable knowing that out government separates us in races, teaching us that races are in fact NOT equal. teaching us that each race IS separate from each other, and quite frankly discouraging me hanging out with other races because if something happens and somehow someone hits someone its a lot more trouble. its stupid, don't you think so? i definitely do.

 

[vampirekid.13]

i strongly believe racism cannot be minimized when you have rules that are race based, it teaches people to think in races.


also consider:

"well, mr. caucasian and mr. african-american, amazingly you both qualify for the job...but we'll take the african-american because he's a minority and we're supposed to"

you now just made a choice based on race. which is racist. its just being ignored because its against a white person so it doesnt matter.

there is no debt, and there is no reason to "pay them back" we didnt do anything wrong.

 

[Worgen]

the funny thing is as soon as whites arnt the majority (and it will happen) they are going to definatly have something just like affirmative action or will be using the hell out of it