is "affirmative action" further spreading race issues in our society?

[YuheJi]

But I think it's detrimental to even the minorities that are typically thought of as being the ones receiving affirmative action. This being because it takes away from the accomplishments of the people that legitimately were qualified to get the job/scholarship/spot in a university or whatever since people automatically assume that, "Oh, they're (fill in minority here), so they MUST have only gotten in because of affirmative action."

This is an argument that few people bring up when discussing affirmative action. When a lot of people of color go to college, or get a job, it is almost assumed that they got in because of affirmative action. It takes away the their personal achievement, and they're not looked at as a person but as a person of a particular race. Their achievements seem to mean less, because some white person arguably did better and did not receive those benefits.
We have to remember that when a person of color does get a job, or into a school via affirmative action, which is less and less common now, no one does their work for them. There is no one there to hold their hand and help them out, AA or not.

 

[RavingLibDem]

I think in places like the US at the moment you do need a period of affirmative action, because what people regularly regret is that it rarely involves admitting actually poorer candidates, it tends to just mean if your at the same level as someone else but they happen to come from a racial minority they get let in above you. Frankly as most figures will show if you've got to the same stage as many white applicants while being from what is often a poorer, less educated home then you deserve to get in above some middle class white boy who feels he has a god given right to go to college.

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

And nobody else had slaves? African Americans weren't the only race enslaved on Earth. Does that mean everyone should get some form of preferential treatment in the nations that their race was enslaved in worldwide?

From what I've seen around the world there is less racism in the general public of the US than just about everywhere else on Earth. There on the other hand IS massive institutionalized racism against the white male (affirmative action ONLY applies to the government, public colleges and universities and the contractors of those two groups.)

right, last post of a mammoth multi post, though I wouldn't like to try and condense these answers into one!

Basically I think in the US the reason that its appropriate is because currently the african americans live to a much lower standard on average, and have much less chance of getting to the same level as white people of the same 'standard' so called, so affirmative action is brought in to try and eradicate the last differences in society through forcing certain people through, so they can become role models and inspire the later generations, without there being a need to use a tool like affirmative action.

Also if you say there is less racism in the US you may be sadly deluded, there are still large area's (im sorry to stereotype, the south and bible belt spring to mind) that are not equal, and will not accept certain people as equal to them.

Finally frankly, any talk of discriminating against the white, richer, and generally more priveleged majority - grow up, most jobs still go to them, the quota's are on a small enough scale that it makes very little difference as to who would otherwise get the job, if your that worried, work harder, get more skills, try and get ahead anyway, and stop moaning about the minority of cases where affirmative action may slightly affect your life.

 

[Muphin_Mann]

Fixing the problem of hiring people based on their skin color by making business hire people based on their skin color seems a tad like the original problem.

It will prolly be done away with once this generation gets older since we've not grown up in establishment enforced racism and we don't feel guilty for things we haven't done.

Speak for yourself, not for me. I feel horrible everytime i see a holocaust memorial and not only am i not that generation im not even german.

 

[RavingLibDem]

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

no. White people no longer have to do this. It happened in THE PAST. i did not do it, my parents did not do it, nor do anyone i know do it. If you as a person still feel guilty about slavery then you my friend have been brainwashed. I no longer feel guilty that white people participated in slavery, but i am sad that it was a prominent part in my nations history, and that the US government did not end it sooner.

yes, white people do not do it now, however there is still racial discrimination within society, and the problem remains that because of past wrongs african americans regularly start life with a bigger disadvantage than a lot of the white population. Therefore you work towards allowing them to start, at least on average, from a similar standard, and base as the white, or any other ethnicity, population start from.

 

[tangylaser]

im half black and half Japaneses so i get a lot of this and as long as i know your kidding its fine but don't pop the n-word on me or i will attack you

 

[vampirekid.13]

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

i didnt see this little gem until right now.


lets get a few things straight. my opinion:

1. im white. i grew up white. im caucasian by definition.
2. i have no debt to anyone, and ill say this to every race out there.
im sorry you were treated like crap. not my fault, it wasnt me, and you cant hold ME responsible for some idiots hundreds of years ago.

my debt to the african american population is inexistent.


im sorry jews were killed in the holocaust. its not my fault, get over it and stop playing the holocaust card so much, its in the past.

im sorry your race was somehow wronged by a race that encompasses me. i didnt do it, and you cant hold me responsible for it. so yet again. there is no debt to pay back.

Maybe my words were clumsy, however it remains that if a society punishes a people repeatedly simply for where their from, I don't see the problem in giving them a slight leg up, in attempting to bring the african american population up to an equal level on average, in society! its not a personal debt, its a debt that society owes, and that society pays, I find it highly unlikely that you ahve missed out on anything due to affirmative action, and therefore this idea that it punishes the white, generally richer, majority is bogus.

imma quote someone and say "hiring someone based on skin color sounds a lot like the problem."


...


want fairness, you have 2 ppl equally qualified drop their names in a hat and pull one out, see which it is.

 

[Xan Krieger]

I hope to someday not be judged by the content of my character, but rather by the color of my skin.

That reminds me, if Martin Luther King ever looked at how Obama got elected he would facepalm so hard his head would cave in.

Affirmitive action is a very negative action that I wish to see abolished.

As for apologizing for slavery, as nobody in my family owns a slave we won't apologize as we don't have any of the responsibility.

As for the things that happened in the 50s and 60s against black people, again my family is innocent and we won't apologize. It wasn't right but we had nothing to do with it.

Not a conservative either, and I too think both are racism. I never said there was a kind of racial distinction that can't be racism: I said 'when it is based on race *illegitimately*' it's racism.

The fact that they are black *criminals* pretty much means what they're doing is "illegitimate" so I don't see what your example has to do with what I said.

Simple questions for you that will at least be able to lay to rest my argument with you:

1. What constitutes "legitimate racial differentiation"?

Giving the sunscreen to the white guy stranded on the desert island before giving it to the black guy.

2. Why is "legitimate" racial differentiation a good thing?

Because if it wasn't a good thing, it wouldn't be "legitimate."quote]But when it comes ti punishments for crimes it's not a good thing. If you had two murder cases, one a white on white and the other a black on white and the second one was called a hate crime and got a different punishment that is injustice. In both someone was killed by someone else (note that I say someone and not "a white person" because the law should not recognize race, it should say "You're a human and you killed this other human willingly and knowingly? Death Penalty."

 

[asinann]

I think in places like the US at the moment you do need a period of affirmative action, because what people regularly regret is that it rarely involves admitting actually poorer candidates, it tends to just mean if your at the same level as someone else but they happen to come from a racial minority they get let in above you. Frankly as most figures will show if you've got to the same stage as many white applicants while being from what is often a poorer, less educated home then you deserve to get in above some middle class white boy who feels he has a god given right to go to college.

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

And nobody else had slaves? African Americans weren't the only race enslaved on Earth. Does that mean everyone should get some form of preferential treatment in the nations that their race was enslaved in worldwide?

From what I've seen around the world there is less racism in the general public of the US than just about everywhere else on Earth. There on the other hand IS massive institutionalized racism against the white male (affirmative action ONLY applies to the government, public colleges and universities and the contractors of those two groups.)

right, last post of a mammoth multi post, though I wouldn't like to try and condense these answers into one!

Basically I think in the US the reason that its appropriate is because currently the african americans live to a much lower standard on average, and have much less chance of getting to the same level as white people of the same 'standard' so called, so affirmative action is brought in to try and eradicate the last differences in society through forcing certain people through, so they can become role models and inspire the later generations, without there being a need to use a tool like affirmative action.

Also if you say there is less racism in the US you may be sadly deluded, there are still large area's (im sorry to stereotype, the south and bible belt spring to mind) that are not equal, and will not accept certain people as equal to them.

Finally frankly, any talk of discriminating against the white, richer, and generally more priveleged majority - grow up, most jobs still go to them, the quota's are on a small enough scale that it makes very little difference as to who would otherwise get the job, if your that worried, work harder, get more skills, try and get ahead anyway, and stop moaning about the minority of cases where affirmative action may slightly affect your life.

Good job reading the last line of my post. You know, the one where I said that affirmative action only applied to a few groups.

And affirmative action is actually ILLEGAL in a few states and quotas are technically against the law everywhere (doesn't mean they aren't used.)

White folks are nothing more than the largest group, and we aren't THAT far ahead in numbers any more (hispanics outnumber everyone in the south west.)

 

[Lord Monocle Von Banworthy]

I think this thread is further spreading race issues in our society.

 

[Crazy Elf]

There are a "hell of a lot" of black politicians in America.

Not the point. They're still on an uneven socio-economic basis after over one hundred years of supposed freedom. That's the point of AA, to even that out.

Then it's political oppression.

It would be if you were denied jobs. You're not, though.

One, like I said, it was a *struggle* not a victory march.

Well victories are still to come, seeing that African Americans are still on a far lower level of privilege than whites, sociologically speaking. No equality there yet.

Three, speaking of the a lack of something for 100 years after the 1960s, didn't it take until 1965 for Aboriginals to get the vote in Queensland?

I'm pretty sure it was 1967. To change the constitution in Australia you need to set up a nation wide vote, and the majority has to agree. When the vote came through to give Aboriginals the vote, over 90 percent of Australians said yes. Although there are still problems in Australia in regards to Aboriginal relations, it's more akin the the problems that the US has with the Native Americans than the African Americans. That's a whole new kettle of fish, though.

No, it makes it *different* like I keep trying to tell you. The reason other Western countries look more advanced than the U.S. is that when the colonialism experienced a resurgence in the 19th century, other Western countries were able to conduct their racism overseas, and when they mucked it up, they just walked away.

And legislated against it, and freed slaves in the oceans of Africa, and gave people their countries back.

But that's hardly the point. The point is that the situation in America is one where the African Americans are underprivileged in comparison to everyone else. That's what AA is about.

Australia was a member of the British Empire when the British Empire was taking over Africa.

I think you'll find that the Dutch were the real problem in Africa. I think you'll also find that the British were taking over Africa before Australia was colonised by whites. But that's hardly the point. Australia broke away from the main British government and forged its own path. Asking Australia to apologise for Africa is like asking India or Malaysia to apologise for Africa. It's hardly relevant.

I would too. Of course, you're ignoring the whole 'going off to Africa and Asia building a colonial empire during the late 19th century' thing.

Um, no I'm not. I'm showing that they admitted to their wrongs and started going about righting them. You know, the whole point of detailing those actions in the first place.

Exactly. Because otherwise these kinds of comparisons are a useless dick waving contest. And trust me, Americans don't lose dick waving contests.

Bombing civilians doesn't mean that you win an ideological argument.

So when you talk about non-systemic slavery happening to black people, it's only a "legal" distinction that "doesn't stop them behaving and feeling like" slaves; when I talk about it happening to white people, you're making...exactly what sort of point I can't refute?

Because the process of slavery towards African Americans was both non-systemic and systemic, obviously.

 

[RavingLibDem]

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

i didnt see this little gem until right now.


lets get a few things straight. my opinion:

1. im white. i grew up white. im caucasian by definition.
2. i have no debt to anyone, and ill say this to every race out there.
im sorry you were treated like crap. not my fault, it wasnt me, and you cant hold ME responsible for some idiots hundreds of years ago.

my debt to the african american population is inexistent.


im sorry jews were killed in the holocaust. its not my fault, get over it and stop playing the holocaust card so much, its in the past.

im sorry your race was somehow wronged by a race that encompasses me. i didnt do it, and you cant hold me responsible for it. so yet again. there is no debt to pay back.

Maybe my words were clumsy, however it remains that if a society punishes a people repeatedly simply for where their from, I don't see the problem in giving them a slight leg up, in attempting to bring the african american population up to an equal level on average, in society! its not a personal debt, its a debt that society owes, and that society pays, I find it highly unlikely that you ahve missed out on anything due to affirmative action, and therefore this idea that it punishes the white, generally richer, majority is bogus.

imma quote someone and say "hiring someone based on skin color sounds a lot like the problem."


...


want fairness, you have 2 ppl equally qualified drop their names in a hat and pull one out, see which it is.

well frankly, i think this system makes it fair, as it counteracts the extra challenges that many in the african american community face

 

[RavingLibDem]

I think in places like the US at the moment you do need a period of affirmative action, because what people regularly regret is that it rarely involves admitting actually poorer candidates, it tends to just mean if your at the same level as someone else but they happen to come from a racial minority they get let in above you. Frankly as most figures will show if you've got to the same stage as many white applicants while being from what is often a poorer, less educated home then you deserve to get in above some middle class white boy who feels he has a god given right to go to college.

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

And nobody else had slaves? African Americans weren't the only race enslaved on Earth. Does that mean everyone should get some form of preferential treatment in the nations that their race was enslaved in worldwide?

From what I've seen around the world there is less racism in the general public of the US than just about everywhere else on Earth. There on the other hand IS massive institutionalized racism against the white male (affirmative action ONLY applies to the government, public colleges and universities and the contractors of those two groups.)

right, last post of a mammoth multi post, though I wouldn't like to try and condense these answers into one!

Basically I think in the US the reason that its appropriate is because currently the african americans live to a much lower standard on average, and have much less chance of getting to the same level as white people of the same 'standard' so called, so affirmative action is brought in to try and eradicate the last differences in society through forcing certain people through, so they can become role models and inspire the later generations, without there being a need to use a tool like affirmative action.

Also if you say there is less racism in the US you may be sadly deluded, there are still large area's (im sorry to stereotype, the south and bible belt spring to mind) that are not equal, and will not accept certain people as equal to them.

Finally frankly, any talk of discriminating against the white, richer, and generally more priveleged majority - grow up, most jobs still go to them, the quota's are on a small enough scale that it makes very little difference as to who would otherwise get the job, if your that worried, work harder, get more skills, try and get ahead anyway, and stop moaning about the minority of cases where affirmative action may slightly affect your life.

Good job reading the last line of my post. You know, the one where I said that affirmative action only applied to a few groups.

And affirmative action is actually ILLEGAL in a few states and quotas are technically against the law everywhere (doesn't mean they aren't used.)

White folks are nothing more than the largest group, and we aren't THAT far ahead in numbers any more (hispanics outnumber everyone in the south west.)

your still the majority, there are more white americans than all ethnic minorities put together.

and yes, affirmative action applies to a few groups, however in these few groups it helps to correct the imbalance in society.

And I fail to see your point on affirmative action being illegal in some places? so? it's legal in other places, thats what the discussion is about! and yes, quota's are illegal, although the affirmative action program works similarly to a quota program in some respects.

 

[vampirekid.13]

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

i didnt see this little gem until right now.


lets get a few things straight. my opinion:

1. im white. i grew up white. im caucasian by definition.
2. i have no debt to anyone, and ill say this to every race out there.
im sorry you were treated like crap. not my fault, it wasnt me, and you cant hold ME responsible for some idiots hundreds of years ago.

my debt to the african american population is inexistent.


im sorry jews were killed in the holocaust. its not my fault, get over it and stop playing the holocaust card so much, its in the past.

im sorry your race was somehow wronged by a race that encompasses me. i didnt do it, and you cant hold me responsible for it. so yet again. there is no debt to pay back.

Maybe my words were clumsy, however it remains that if a society punishes a people repeatedly simply for where their from, I don't see the problem in giving them a slight leg up, in attempting to bring the african american population up to an equal level on average, in society! its not a personal debt, its a debt that society owes, and that society pays, I find it highly unlikely that you ahve missed out on anything due to affirmative action, and therefore this idea that it punishes the white, generally richer, majority is bogus.

imma quote someone and say "hiring someone based on skin color sounds a lot like the problem."


...


want fairness, you have 2 ppl equally qualified drop their names in a hat and pull one out, see which it is.

well frankly, i think this system makes it fair, as it counteracts the extra challenges that many in the african american community face

What extra challenges?

Poverty isn't an African American thing only.

Quite frankly a company shouldn't have a quota for ethnic diversity, the gov should just mind their own business.
The issue with that is what about racist managers that won't hire people because of their racial background, but seriously that's between the business owner and god. I wouldn't even want to work for someone that only hired me because he was forced by the gov.

 

[demonsaber]

I think in places like the US at the moment you do need a period of affirmative action, because what people regularly regret is that it rarely involves admitting actually poorer candidates, it tends to just mean if your at the same level as someone else but they happen to come from a racial minority they get let in above you. Frankly as most figures will show if you've got to the same stage as many white applicants while being from what is often a poorer, less educated home then you deserve to get in above some middle class white boy who feels he has a god given right to go to college.

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

1. Middle class does not mean easy street. My family is considered middle class and we have lived in some pretty fucked up places and barely scraped enough to survive growing up.

2. It is EVERYONE'S god given right to make it in college and better themselves. I am all for a poorer person getting the government aid that I requested as long as they use it.

3. We do not owe the african americans jack crap. Every society that has ever been large or powerful has been started off slavery of some sort (rome, egypt, england (had some for awhile), russia(they didn't really hire any but their people were basically slaves), the aztec indians had a form of slavery. Hell there are places in africa that still have slavery today. I am not saying it's right or that we should go out and own some people to do our work, but you have to realize that damn near every power used slavery at some point and if you are going to give America shit about it, you damn well better attack other cultures as well.

4. My people (the irish) suffered far worse than slaves did. My people were killed outright, starved to death most of the times when they got to america, suffered racial prejudice far exceeding the african slaves, got their arms ripped off in factories, and worked to death. Where is our payback? How about the Chinese and the Japanese. Go look up what we did to them during World War 2 and look up what we did to them during the "wild west". Paying back one group of people for past fuck ups and showing one group compassion, while at the same time hindering others, is massive bullshit.

On that note, let's just try to make a White Entrainment Television or Asian Entertainment Television (this one could pass) and see how far it goes.

1. look, what I meant about the middle class was that you generally have a more supportive home, and certainly a home more conductive and encouraging to learning.

2. great, yes, im all for it, but while in the US you insist on your stupid flawed bias system you don't get this.

3. okay, woopee, your not the only one's who did a whoopsee, does that mean you shouldn't try and make up for it? Frankly, I think the argument that other people have buggered up, therefore we don't need to try and make up for what we do is a rubbish one. In the US it is still a fact that african americans have much less chance of getting various jobs, or education oppurtunities, and not in a way that can be explained by them being poorer, or less clever.

4. ummm, dear god, your saying the irish had it worse than the african americans? uve just described what happened to african americans, not more, and if anything less, and for less tie, early on in america everyone got exploited, it happened, however you later based much of your growth and success on killing, maiming, exploiting, ignoring, and generally maltreating the african american population, for a longer time than the irish population, since they gained equalish rights in the US in about 1850. as for the war, well frankly, that was against people from other countries, its a war, both sides entered willingly knowing the costs, normal people get screwed over, it happened, not right, not wrong, but much harder to deal with than this particular probelm, where affirmative action has had some very real succeses in equalising society, though not fully yet.

and great, no one else gets there own television station, mainly cause most tv in the US is aimed at the white population, being the majority, as for asian tv, well what can you do, im actually quite certain that there wouldnt be much of an outcry at all if someone set up a channel aimed at them.

Err the irish were repressed more in their own country than the african americans were for far longer. And while on the books we had equal rights, irish people got treated far worse than slaves. Slaves at least had places to live. You want to know a people even more repressed EVERYWHERE than the african americans. Gypsies they were not even granted equal rights until the 80's. Slaves also had better living styles than the irish (until we outlawed slavery) back in the later days of american slavery, slave actually liked their masters pretty well until the master did something to the slave's family. Also there are far more aid programs for african americans than there are "white folk". There are literally hundreds of programs to help out african americans specifically that "white" folk cannot even apply for. And I do not owe african americans shit. My family never owned a single slave and we were poor white trash until the last few generations.

Also all this "we owe them" shit is just furthering the stereotype that they cannot help themselves which is what most of my AA(to lazy to type at the moment just did a 9 hour shift remodeling some rich fucker's house because his dumb ass keeps punching holes in his walls) friends hate more than anything. 90% of my graduating class at my high school were minorities so don't try to tell me they are repressed. I got the same education they do and we all have to deal with the broken system just the same.

I'm scottish, as I've said before, of course the Irish were repressed, so were the scots, fact is, in american society now, there isn't a major discrimination against the Irish, where there is against african americans - hence treating the problem that is there! and dear god, your saying that slaves liked being slaves, because homes could be good, look, freedom is good, peiople should have the freedom to live, and reach their potential, however in this case some extra help is required to help people reach their required potential! Frankly the Irish didnt live worse than slaves, because they had their freedom, they could move, and they could attempt to get better, it was hard, but it was for many people, and the point remains that they have now gained a status of unquestioned equality in the USA, unlike the african american population!

and I have to say, at what stage where you discriminated against, or punished by affirmative action? the main idea however is that if an african american does very well, and is put against a richer white american, then the african american should win out, very rarely is it a poorer candidate.

I agree that the education system is broken, but I don't think aboloshing affirmative action would help anyone!

No the african american should not automatically win out over a an even field. That is called favoritism and is the same thing that people ***** about whenever a "white person" is hired over a black person. That is just changing one class to being favorite and really doesn't help shit. And actually yes I have been shot down by affirmative action before but that's besides the point. We can't have a double standard that let's someone beat someone else just because of their origins and the fact that they had the luck to be born into a certain social group. That's essentially the same thing as society's double standard on racism.

Example: I can get called mick, cracker, hillbilly, white trash, and pretty much any other racial slur in the book. Now if I tried to call ANY other race by the racial slur that coincides with their origin, I will get charged with a hate crime. That has happened to me before. One of my "black" friends came up to me one day and said "what up cracker" and I replied jokingly back with "not much negro." Now my friend was fine with it and new I was fucking with him as a joke, but some random ass teacher at our school comes up after hearing both of us and I get in school suspension for a week based off of a little joke between friends that the person who was supposed to be insulted wasn't even mad at. I only bring this up because it serves a point to show the double standard.

You cannot say "Oh the white person should fail just because the other person had a ruff childhood", that's bullshit and not needed these days. Ideally, people should earn their positions in life based on the merits of what that person has done and skin color should not have anything to do with it whatsoever. If you think that maintaining the attitude that the african american cannot help themselves and thus need affirmative action to save all their asses, than that makes you just a little bit racist.

 

[vampirekid.13]

i have an idea, how about we just put all whites in jail for 3 years after highschool, so they can "pay back" the debt they have to minorities.


or how about we dont and admit paying back for stuff we didnt do is stupid.


on that note, whites fought for minority rights, so clearly not everyone is in any debt.

i stand by my point. affirmative action does nothing but give people the right to favor a race over another and give out jobs/scholarships/hard to get positions based on racism hidden behind the premise of affirmative action.


the US gov. actually has a list of all businesses they buy stuff from and one of the columns is "women owned y/n" ya. thats right. the gov are more likely to buy from a WO business just because of affirmative action. THATS STUPID.

 

[asinann]

I think in places like the US at the moment you do need a period of affirmative action, because what people regularly regret is that it rarely involves admitting actually poorer candidates, it tends to just mean if your at the same level as someone else but they happen to come from a racial minority they get let in above you. Frankly as most figures will show if you've got to the same stage as many white applicants while being from what is often a poorer, less educated home then you deserve to get in above some middle class white boy who feels he has a god given right to go to college.

You also have a debt to make up to the african american population, whether you like it or not, and I think this is one of the better ways of doing this, allowing society to start to balance itself out again.

And nobody else had slaves? African Americans weren't the only race enslaved on Earth. Does that mean everyone should get some form of preferential treatment in the nations that their race was enslaved in worldwide?

From what I've seen around the world there is less racism in the general public of the US than just about everywhere else on Earth. There on the other hand IS massive institutionalized racism against the white male (affirmative action ONLY applies to the government, public colleges and universities and the contractors of those two groups.)

right, last post of a mammoth multi post, though I wouldn't like to try and condense these answers into one!

Basically I think in the US the reason that its appropriate is because currently the african americans live to a much lower standard on average, and have much less chance of getting to the same level as white people of the same 'standard' so called, so affirmative action is brought in to try and eradicate the last differences in society through forcing certain people through, so they can become role models and inspire the later generations, without there being a need to use a tool like affirmative action.

Also if you say there is less racism in the US you may be sadly deluded, there are still large area's (im sorry to stereotype, the south and bible belt spring to mind) that are not equal, and will not accept certain people as equal to them.

Finally frankly, any talk of discriminating against the white, richer, and generally more priveleged majority - grow up, most jobs still go to them, the quota's are on a small enough scale that it makes very little difference as to who would otherwise get the job, if your that worried, work harder, get more skills, try and get ahead anyway, and stop moaning about the minority of cases where affirmative action may slightly affect your life.

Good job reading the last line of my post. You know, the one where I said that affirmative action only applied to a few groups.

And affirmative action is actually ILLEGAL in a few states and quotas are technically against the law everywhere (doesn't mean they aren't used.)

White folks are nothing more than the largest group, and we aren't THAT far ahead in numbers any more (hispanics outnumber everyone in the south west.)

your still the majority, there are more white americans than all ethnic minorities put together.

and yes, affirmative action applies to a few groups, however in these few groups it helps to correct the imbalance in society.

And I fail to see your point on affirmative action being illegal in some places? so? it's legal in other places, thats what the discussion is about! and yes, quota's are illegal, although the affirmative action program works similarly to a quota program in some respects.

Since you also fail to grasp how Affirmative Action works, I will explain it to you.

The ONLY demographic that Affirmative Action doesn't help somehow are straight white males that never served in the military and are not disabled.

It was designed to bring about equality in the hiring and acceptance processes, and ended up creating favoritism in hiring and acceptance while causing more racial tension than ever before.

The problem comes when the less qualified applicants are chosen based ENTIRELY on their "disadvantaged group" status (which as previously noted is everyone that isn't white and male, which oddly enough is one of the smallest groups in the US.)

While white males have most of the money and the power, all that money and power is concentrated in a relatively small number of them leaving the REST of them worse off than people that affirmative action helps.

The supreme court has even ruled that some of the ways affirmative action has been applied violates the 14th amendment of the constitution.

Well its a double edged sword really. You keep affirmative action around and the non-minorities start to complain about its unfairness. If you were then to remove it and the job scene becomes unbalanced with non-minorities gaining most of the jobs then questions arise about whether you are being racist or exclusionary in your hiring practises. I think most major companies maintaing affirmative action in order to avoid unwanted attention from government watch dogs or civil liberties organizations. I think a lot of times it does invite racism, specially if a non-minority has lost out on a job due to affirmative action but getting rid of it has its own problems as well.

In Washington state affirmative action has been made illegal and it hasn't affected hiring, promotion and admissions of "disadvantaged" groups in the slightest because in most of the country it is no longer necessary and is in fact hampering "race relations."

i have an idea, how about we just put all whites in jail for 3 years after highschool, so they can "pay back" the debt they have to minorities.


or how about we dont and admit paying back for stuff we didnt do is stupid.


on that note, whites fought for minority rights, so clearly not everyone is in any debt.

i stand by my point. affirmative action does nothing but give people the right to favor a race over another and give out jobs/scholarships/hard to get positions based on racism hidden behind the premise of affirmative action.


the US gov. actually has a list of all businesses they buy stuff from and one of the columns is "women owned y/n" ya. thats right. the gov are more likely to buy from a WO business just because of affirmative action. THATS STUPID.

I never owned a slave, never repressed a "disadvantaged group." I don't owe any of them a damn thing other than the basic courtesies that I give to every human being. Affirmative action didn't ALLOW people to do anything, it FORCED them to favor one group over another.
And now that it's being pushed out the door "disadvantaged" groups are up in arms because they'll actually have to be the best qualified candidate for opportunities now.