Is Anime really more mature than Western cartoons?
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Yes and no. Anime comes in more flavors than Baskin Robbins, so it runs the full gamut in terms of maturity/seriousness.
What did you watch, Slayers and Pokemon?
Death Note. Full Metal Alchemist. Clannad. Orphen. Cowboy Bebop. Samurai Champloo. Kanon. Darker than BLACK.
These are just a few that have incredibly mature stories. Not shallow at all. Even Japanese kid's shows, like Digimon Tamers, have stories that put the vast majority of American cartoons to shame. Even the much-hated Naruto (the Halo of anime: everyone hates it for no other reason than "it's popular") has incredibly deep and well-developed characters.
History lesson. During the rise of Hollywood, Japan wanted to do something about film, but they didn't have the money at the time to actually do anything to the degree that America was. So they drew cartoons.
You have to realize, this is the origin of cartoons in Japan: it was their film. No one said, "Well, I want to make a girtty, dark crime drama, but I guess I can't because I can only do cartoons." They worked with what they had. To this day, American cartoons are mostly influenced by things like Loony Toons, whereas Japan's origins of cartoons involved the comedic, the kid-oriented, and the mature dramas.
Watch any one of the shows I listed, and try to say that anime isn't mature. It is.
EDIT: Though it should be noted that anime is not a genre, it is a medium. Thus, you have both the shallow comedies and the intense dramas. The difference is that America's standard for animated quality has an irritating tendency to be Spongebob or Family guy (unbridled stupidity or dirty adult comedy). The Japanese actually care about plot, character, and drama.
Death Note. Full Metal Alchemist. Clannad. Orphen. Cowboy Bebop. Samurai Champloo. Kanon. Darker than BLACK.
These are just a few that have incredibly mature stories. Not shallow at all. Even Japanese kid's shows, like Digimon Tamers, have stories that put the vast majority of American cartoons to shame. Even the much-hated Naruto (the Halo of anime: everyone hates it for no other reason than "it's popular") has incredibly deep and well-developed characters.
History lesson. During the rise of Hollywood, Japan wanted to do something about film, but they didn't have the money at the time to actually do anything to the degree that America was. So they drew cartoons.
You have to realize, this is the origin of cartoons in Japan: it was their film. No one said, "Well, I want to make a girtty, dark crime drama, but I guess I can't because I can only do cartoons." They worked with what they had. To this day, American cartoons are mostly influenced by things like Loony Toons, whereas Japan's origins of cartoons involved the comedic, the kid-oriented, and the mature dramas.
Watch any one of the shows I listed, and try to say that anime isn't mature. It is.
EDIT: Though it should be noted that anime is not a genre, it is a medium. Thus, you have both the shallow comedies and the intense dramas. The difference is that America's standard for animated quality has an irritating tendency to be Spongebob or Family guy (unbridled stupidity or dirty adult comedy). The Japanese actually care about plot, character, and drama.
Anime is only seen as more mature simply because there are just more of them.
For every western show it seems like there is two or three Japaneses show. As well due to the filtering effect of east to west very likely people are only seeing the kind of shows they like. Thus people looking for mature shows will find them more often then browsing tv channels at home.
As well there is the point of asking what exactly is mature. Shows i like that i would consider mature would be...
Western
Harvey Birdman
Dexters lab
Gargoyles
Sea Lab
Frisky Dingo
Space Ghost
Old episodes of the simpsons and to a lesser extent the newer episodes
King of the Hill
Ugly Americans
Eastren
Kanon
Black Lagoon
Lain
I can't think of many others at the moment that I like but many others have already been named.
Another problem i find with the labeling of mature is that things that are funny people instantly dismiss as immature. Take Dexters lab. I actually find the show very mature. The jokes are witty and the storylines are amusing as hell avoiding what most other kids shows were about, snot and farts.
Ultimately its perspective. I watched the show Ah! My Goddess with a couple of friends when i was a kid. One thinks its soft core porn shit and the other though it was a romantic love story.
For every western show it seems like there is two or three Japaneses show. As well due to the filtering effect of east to west very likely people are only seeing the kind of shows they like. Thus people looking for mature shows will find them more often then browsing tv channels at home.
As well there is the point of asking what exactly is mature. Shows i like that i would consider mature would be...
Western
Harvey Birdman
Dexters lab
Gargoyles
Sea Lab
Frisky Dingo
Space Ghost
Old episodes of the simpsons and to a lesser extent the newer episodes
King of the Hill
Ugly Americans
Eastren
Kanon
Black Lagoon
Lain
I can't think of many others at the moment that I like but many others have already been named.
Another problem i find with the labeling of mature is that things that are funny people instantly dismiss as immature. Take Dexters lab. I actually find the show very mature. The jokes are witty and the storylines are amusing as hell avoiding what most other kids shows were about, snot and farts.
Ultimately its perspective. I watched the show Ah! My Goddess with a couple of friends when i was a kid. One thinks its soft core porn shit and the other though it was a romantic love story.
No, what you've got here is a general misuse of the word 'mature'. A lot of the time in entertainment media the word 'mature' is used to describe anything with more adult-like content (violence, sex etc.). So in that sense Anime is a lot more 'mature' then Western cartoons, but if you look at the word to mean like less juvenile then no, in many cases it isn't.
Not to harp on something that has already been mentioned, but look at the sheer number of animes that are out now and how diverse they are.
Unlike the United States and the Western world ingeneral, anime and manga in Japan are enjoyed by almost everyone (because there is a genre for everyone, unlike western comics that only target a select few: namely children or super hero fans). You can see businessmen on their way to work reading manga on the bullet trains all the time. You will hear about housewives reading homoerotic Boy's Love mangas while their husbands are away (lol).
So of course the more adult themed shows may out class cartoons like "Ben Ten", but that's only because you're forgetting that there are dozens of mangas/animes that are exactly like "Dora the Exlorer" or "SpongBob" and what have you that are never released anywhere else outside Japan.
I think the Japanese entertainment industry has a creative and
healthy approach to cartoons and graphic novels for more mature audience; most people in the US are still trying to comprehed the fact that cartoons are capable communicate meaningful and mature themes to teens and adults.
I'm not an otaku or a Japanophile supremist lol I just enjoy the more thought provoking animes/mangas that come out of the Japanese entertainment industry like "Monster", "Paranoia Agent","Grave of The Fireflies"(this is actually a film), "Evangelion" and so on.
Heck, I'll even read a romance here and there if the story is interesting and thoughtful.
P.S I'm not sure why shows like "Naruto" or "Bleach ever became so popular. It's the same thing being recycled into a different set of clothes/characters. DBZ is grandfather of all thse types of shows and forumla is getting old. I know pre-teens and otakus get a big kick out of Bishonen shows, but if there's one thing the Pokeman craze of the late 90's taught me, never get into a show because it's a fad... chances are someone just wants to wring you dry of all your cash.
Unlike the United States and the Western world ingeneral, anime and manga in Japan are enjoyed by almost everyone (because there is a genre for everyone, unlike western comics that only target a select few: namely children or super hero fans). You can see businessmen on their way to work reading manga on the bullet trains all the time. You will hear about housewives reading homoerotic Boy's Love mangas while their husbands are away (lol).
So of course the more adult themed shows may out class cartoons like "Ben Ten", but that's only because you're forgetting that there are dozens of mangas/animes that are exactly like "Dora the Exlorer" or "SpongBob" and what have you that are never released anywhere else outside Japan.
I think the Japanese entertainment industry has a creative and
healthy approach to cartoons and graphic novels for more mature audience; most people in the US are still trying to comprehed the fact that cartoons are capable communicate meaningful and mature themes to teens and adults.
I'm not an otaku or a Japanophile supremist lol I just enjoy the more thought provoking animes/mangas that come out of the Japanese entertainment industry like "Monster", "Paranoia Agent","Grave of The Fireflies"(this is actually a film), "Evangelion" and so on.
Heck, I'll even read a romance here and there if the story is interesting and thoughtful.
P.S I'm not sure why shows like "Naruto" or "Bleach ever became so popular. It's the same thing being recycled into a different set of clothes/characters. DBZ is grandfather of all thse types of shows and forumla is getting old. I know pre-teens and otakus get a big kick out of Bishonen shows, but if there's one thing the Pokeman craze of the late 90's taught me, never get into a show because it's a fad... chances are someone just wants to wring you dry of all your cash.
I'm not commenting on anything you just said, but I just have to say that I used to own the comic book your avatar was in. I remember that panel.Satin6T said:
OT: I think that some Anime is much more mature than Western cartoons. Then again, I also think that Western comic books tend to be a lot more mature than most manga.
I'm tempted to say no... Judging by the fact that some of the most popular animes feature protagonists who are: A race of monkey god human creatures who can become even more powerful and have glowing golden spiky hair. An annoying pre pubescent ninja in a bright orange jumpsuit. A wolf demon with long white flowing lockes, who has a short skirt wearing sidekick who's essentially a girl he used to bone back in the day.
Sure there are more serious ones, but sorry when I, and the general unitiated culture think of anime (if they even know what it is) that's what comes to mind.
Sure there are more serious ones, but sorry when I, and the general unitiated culture think of anime (if they even know what it is) that's what comes to mind.
hell yes, anime is more mature.
typical mature anime: Fullmetal alchemist, death note, Hellsing
typical mature western cartoon:Family guy (which I hate by the way), Metalocalypse, Aqua Teen Hungerforce
any questions?
EDIT:I made this post around the time that I was really getting into anime. I stick to my original statement but would like to add that neither is inherently more or less mature but anime tends to have deep, involving stories while western animation is considered "childish", which may lead to the excess of "All animation is for kids" posts. animation is just another way to tell a story in a cheaper way than it would be to computer-generate giant mechs or other effects. but so far anime is more "mature" with even the shounen (aimed at 13-17 year old boys)anime telling deeper and more emotional stories than most hollywood blockbusters I just wish that the arguments would stop and western animation would try to take cues from anime and vice-versa.
typical mature anime: Fullmetal alchemist, death note, Hellsing
typical mature western cartoon:Family guy (which I hate by the way), Metalocalypse, Aqua Teen Hungerforce
any questions?
EDIT:I made this post around the time that I was really getting into anime. I stick to my original statement but would like to add that neither is inherently more or less mature but anime tends to have deep, involving stories while western animation is considered "childish", which may lead to the excess of "All animation is for kids" posts. animation is just another way to tell a story in a cheaper way than it would be to computer-generate giant mechs or other effects. but so far anime is more "mature" with even the shounen (aimed at 13-17 year old boys)anime telling deeper and more emotional stories than most hollywood blockbusters I just wish that the arguments would stop and western animation would try to take cues from anime and vice-versa.
Indeed. However, out of all the cartoons I've watched in my life, the ones that I found most mature were Nightwalker, Full Metal Alchemist, DC's Batman, Superman, JLA and JL Unlimited.Cowabungaa said:
If any definition should straighten this point, it's this: Mature means that a person is showing the emotional, physical and mental characteristics of an adult, or that a mature theme is one that is meant to be taken and analyzed seriously.
Mature is not blood, guts, swearing like a soldier, sex, and tits, at least not when they're shown just for the sake of having them, although juvenile minds may debate me on the subject. If you tie those things into a mature theme such as war or death, I can see how they would work, but otherwise, they are NOT truly mature themes.
Nightwalker was mature in that Shido has to deal with his Lex Luthor like mentor, and the fact that he turns his young secretary into a vampire to save her life, thus denying her the right to die as a human. His partner's only real maturity was in the eighth episode when she is revealed to have been badly burned in a fire while her sister hadn't, only to find out later that her sister was possessed by a demon who forced her to steal people's faces in return for "saving" their lives. I'll admit, watching this episode made me cry quite a bit, especially the ending.
Full Metal Alchemist's episodes were psychotic in some ways, but the overall theme was that humans are not gods over life through science, and were never meant to be, my own belief in Lutheranism notwithstanding. Ed's loss of two limbs and the destruction of Al's body by trying to resurrect their dead mother was in a way an allegory for this. They tried to be gods by bringing back to life someone that was rightfully dead and paid heavily for it.
DC's work on the Justice League usually dealt with situations pertaining to each character, such as the Martian Manhunter becoming more of a social being rather a hermit in the watchtower, and John Stewart's growth into an equal of his old partner, Hal Jordan. I liked these shows because each character was unique and often given a chance to show that they can grow, even though 95% of them are adults already.
The original Superman and Batman animated series followed a similar route, except it was one character who had years of backstory and situations to draw on. Barbara Gordon's incident where she suffers a hallucination through the Scarecrow's nerve powder was a good character moment, even if it was mostly a dream.
Overall, I see both Japanese and American cartoons meant for older viewers having their moments with maturity, which I like. So long as the story is good and not stretched out like warm silly putty, I say keep making these types of shows.
>Ghost In The Shellwebbo619 said:
>Hellsing
>Not westernized
OH SO THATS WHY HELLSIG BORROWS HEAVILY AS FUCK FROM GOTHIC HORROR AND GHOST IN THE SHELL IS INSPIRED BY AMERICAN ACTION MOVIES
The only REALLY unwesternized anime series i've EVER seen is Mushi Shi
Other that that, yeah, all westernized
Also GiTS and Hellsing are more western than Naruto
U MAD BRO?
Anime isn't much more mature than western animation. This belief mostly stems from anime's lack of fear to show blood or have characters swear. In story quality it is just as mature as western animation (on average) but can sometimes get into the darker themes. I guess it has to do with how western cartoons are Bowdlerized.
No, it isn't.
The anime that is the least mature is unpopular in America happens to be extremely popular in Japan. Anime like Doraemon and Sazae-san have stood the test of time there, but are barely visible in the American fan base. Anime similar to Berserk is popular among the American fan base, but shows like that are often delegated towards late night TV or special channels only available in certain parts of Japan.
Ultimately, cartoons in general are aimed specifically at a young audience regardless of their country of origin.
The anime that is the least mature is unpopular in America happens to be extremely popular in Japan. Anime like Doraemon and Sazae-san have stood the test of time there, but are barely visible in the American fan base. Anime similar to Berserk is popular among the American fan base, but shows like that are often delegated towards late night TV or special channels only available in certain parts of Japan.
Ultimately, cartoons in general are aimed specifically at a young audience regardless of their country of origin.