Is Anime really more mature than Western cartoons?

[II2none]

Like? Apologies my computer is stupid and i forgot to quote ONCE.

 

[II2none]

The thing is, I have yet to see any mature western cartoons. I have seen a few mature anime but they are rare. I think it's safe to say that thier equal in terms of maturity. Anime is better in all other aspects, however.

Like?

 

[Vitor Goncalves]

REAL animes are way more mature that our western cartoons.

by real i mean things like ghost in the shell and Hellsing. not westernised anime like pokemon and naruto.

>Ghost In The Shell
>Hellsing
>Not westernized

OH SO THATS WHY HELLSIG BORROWS HEAVILY AS FUCK FROM GOTHIC HORROR AND GHOST IN THE SHELL IS INSPIRED BY AMERICAN ACTION MOVIES

The only REALLY unwesternized anime series i've EVER seen is Mushi Shi

Other that that, yeah, all westernized

Also GiTS and Hellsing are more western than Naruto

U MAD BRO?

Ah the old anime vs western cartoons thread, necroed every 4-5 months.

OT: It depends on the cartoon.

 

[dexxyoto]

japanesse animation can have non sexaulized lesbians, any amaricain cartoons have that?


The boondocks never seen it so i can not say anything
Family Guy, yes this is more adult and sometimes tries to deal with "adult "issues by launghing at them

Futurama, please tell me you are joking
Afro samurai also never seen but i have ment to
Samurai Jack, how is this adult? they change everything to robots so that there is no one ever killed
Batman/Batman beyond/ all batman cartoons in general never deals with anything even close to life issues of a normal person
Young Justice when speedy somes out as a heroin addic and speddy2 (the girl) somes out as a teen prostitute with the add virus i will be inpressed
teen titans of all th thing this show could have dealt with why did it not deal with anyones daddy issues....or any real issues ?
Justice leauge....okay fine i liked the social comitary one the evils of amarian politics and the view on social was good but the way they pushed that under the covers of OMG LEX IS RUNNING FOR PRESEDENT was just old.
the fact of the matter the way amarika runs there tv laws, no blood on screen untill 11pm, no guns pointing at the screen, never beeing about to really too at something in the real world the way it is really happening, ie drugs, teen sex, child abandement, foster care and jails in ANYTHING real pisses me of....that beeing said that does not happen much in anime either.....i now feel really old

 

[Nikolaz72]

japanesse animation can have non sexaulized Homosexuals in general, any american cartoons have that?

I consider that a fix.

 

[Saint of M]

in the western world, animation was largely reduced to kids fair by the fifties as it was

A. Cheaper to film live action
B. Animation had lost its bedaze with special effects becoming cheaper
C. It was now being marketed towards kids, the cash cow of Hollywood.

The western world has had some mature, and sophisticated cartoons (sometimes both mature and sophisticated in its content as was with Daria) but its largely been kid stuff or the maturity is that of a 13 year old.


Japan did the revers. They found animation to be cheaper (probably having more to do with the people in charge of the studios being a bunch of cheap assess more then anything else) and did cartoons on stuff the rest of the world was doing in live action.


Anime is a big genre of animation, and one that covers alot of ground. This can range from the tamest of kids shows (like Hamtaro or The Little Bits) to Hard Core pornography (Bible Black, La Blue Girl); Mature thought Pravoking dramas (any number of the Gundams) way into left field, lewd and crude (Desert Punk); Something with a solid story (Samurai X) and something that had to have been influenced by LCD (you know they were taking something when they made Bobobobobobobobobo).

Plus the Japanese have different taboos, and are less afraid to cover different topics or different character types (like Naruto having Haku and Zabuza being the gay couple without being the campy gay guys).


If its an argument on if Japanimation is more mature or not, the idea that it is mostly stems from more teen and adult stuff that isn't all bathroom humor or satirizing pulp culture.

 

[DanielDeFig]

OP is probably correct. As with any media, more than 50% of it is crap. But i think the limit for how mature a western cartoon can be is much more restrictive than with Anime. The most mature Western cartoon i can think of is Avatar: The Last Airbender, it it remains relatively childish a lot of the time.
I think the problem is that in the west, if it's NOT live-action, they assume it's for kids and is targeted as such. Anime is recognized in japan as an visual medium (on the level of movies, books, TV, etc.), where each individual show can be targeted at any specific age demographic, not just kids.

 

[Thaius]

My thread... it's alive... ALIVE!

Anyway, a lot of people here seem to think that I don't think there are any mature anime. I know there are, I just don't think there are more mature anime than western cartoons (when taken as a whole).

What did you watch, Slayers and Pokemon?

Death Note. Full Metal Alchemist. Clannad. Orphen. Cowboy Bebop. Samurai Champloo. Kanon. Darker than BLACK.

These are just a few that have incredibly mature stories. Not shallow at all. Even Japanese kid's shows, like Digimon Tamers, have stories that put the vast majority of American cartoons to shame. Even the much-hated Naruto (the Halo of anime: everyone hates it for no other reason than "it's popular") has incredibly deep and well-developed characters.

History lesson. During the rise of Hollywood, Japan wanted to do something about film, but they didn't have the money at the time to actually do anything to the degree that America was. So they drew cartoons.

You have to realize, this is the origin of cartoons in Japan: it was their film. No one said, "Well, I want to make a gritty, dark crime drama, but I guess I can't because I can only do cartoons." They worked with what they had. To this day, American cartoons are mostly influenced by things like Loony Toons, whereas Japan's origins of cartoons involved the comedic, the kid-oriented, and the mature dramas.

Watch any one of the shows I listed, and try to say that anime isn't mature. It is.

EDIT: Though it should be noted that anime is not a genre, it is a medium. Thus, you have both the shallow comedies and the intense dramas. The difference is that America's standard for animated quality has an irritating tendency to be Spongebob or Family guy (unbridled stupidity or dirty adult comedy). The Japanese actually care about plot, character, and drama.

My point is that for every Death Note and Cowboy Beebop there are hordes of pokemon style anime shows. Most people in the US don't realize this because they only translate the cream of the crop.

The thing is that the serious ones exist. That simply doesn't happen often in the west: we have the idea that cartoons are simple and childish, capable of conveying nothing more than comedy or, at most, simple children's morals. We live in a culture where a popular response to a testimony of the emotional impact of Pixar's "Up" is, "But isn't it a cartoon?" Of course the majority of anime is immature and stupid: the majority of any medium is immature and stupid. It's a simple application of Sturgeon's Law. But Japan understands much better than western culture that animation can be mature, and as a result the good 10% in Japan tends to be, on the whole, much more mature and interesting than the 10% of western animation. With the exception of Avatar: The Last Airbender. That show is amazing.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

I'd prefer Spongebob to Hentai anyday.

I'm sure that somewhere on the internet you could indulge in both at once


>.<

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

sometimes... My main thing is that alot anime suffers from Shadow Of The Colossus syndrome. sure its art, but the day has yet to come when art and quality has meant the same thing.

their maturity is obnoxiously immature, is what Im saying.

now Western Animation is pretty bad... but its at least openly stupid. plus, Courage The Cowardly Dog. just sayin'.

 

[Hunter.Wolf]

Sudden Question: (i dare you to name one western cartoon that dealt with Quantum Mechanics, Time Travel, Sexual Identity, Psychology, Nature of Existence and Human Souls, Natural Disasters, Cruelty of War, Discrimination, Bio-terrorism, Detailed Futuristic Technology .. etc etc) .. NEVER any of these topics been discussed in any western cartoon and probably will never be.

Very few western cartoons are mature (some Batman movies are good and Avatar the Last Air Bender is wonderful).. but almost 99% percent of western cartoons are made for kids and are far from mature (either crude humor or brainless comedy stuff) .. there might be some European cartoons that have mature/grown-up themes but they are mostly rare and obscure to say the least.

As for anime .. of course nobody is talking about mature=fanservice (nudity and sexual scenes) and gore .. although they are necessary sometimes to set the mature tone .. and as long as they aren't excessive or crude they enhance the experience (Best example would be Berserk).. yeah there are many cheap animes that only focus on sexual themes, brainless humor or repetitive hot blooded fights and that kind of stuff .. but as much as there are cheap animes that does that there are numerous animes that have mature stories/topics/themes that western cartoons wouldn't even dare discuss or approach in 50 years.

((Examples))

--Mature TV animes that depend on fully developed and deep themes--
-Monster
-Ghost in the Shell
-Darker Than Black
-Ghost Hound
-Gankutsuou
-Guin Saga
-Himitsu
-Mouryou No Hako
-Planetes
-Natsume Yuujinchou
-Paranoia Agent
-Patlabor
-RD Sennou Chosashitsu
-Seirei No Moribito
-Evangelion
-Tokyo Magnitude 8.0
-Twelve Kingdoms
-Mushishi
-Fantastic Children
-Serial Experiments Lain
-Baccano!
-Casshern Sins
-Death Note
-Full Metal Alchemist
-Clannad. Orphen
-Cowboy Bebop
-Samurai Champloo
-Kanon
-Ergo Proxy
-Eureka Seven
-Fruits Basket
-Flag
-Gundam 08th Team
-Gungrave
-Noein
-Zone of Enders: Dolores
-Yugo: The Negotiator
-Crest And Banner of the Stars
-Legend of Galactic Hereos
-Starship Operators
-Infinite Ryvius
-Eden of East
-House of Five Leaves
-The Garden of Sinners
-Black Lagoon
-Eve no Jikan
-Noir
-Sora no Oto
-Texhnolyze
-Gilgamesh
-Wolf's Rain
-Sky Crawlers
-Michiko to Hatchin
-Witch Hunter Robin
-Gunslinger Girl
-Le Chevalier D`Eon
-5cm Per Second
-Ai Monogatari: 9 Love Stories
-Battle Angel Alita
-Bonen no Xamdou
-Toward the Terra
-Armed Librarians - The Book of Bantorra
-Revolutionary Girl Utena
-Ayakashi: Japanese Classic Horror
-Mononoke
-Kaiba
-Red Garden
-Rainbow
-Senkou no Night Raid
-True Tears
-White Album
-Cross Game
-Giant Killing
-FREEDOM

--Mature TV animes that do use blood, gore and sexual themes "correctly"--
-Aoi Bungaku
-Elfen Lied
-Berserk
-Basilisk
-Blue Gender
-Speed Grapher
-Shigurui: Death Frenzy
-The Portrait of Cosette
-Requiem from the Darkness
-Ninja Scroll

(PLUS Numerous Anime Full-Feature Movies that rival Hollywood movies .. Grave of Fire Flies, Patlabor WXIII, The Girl Who Lept Through Time, Paprika, Princess Mononoke, Akira, The Wings of Honneamise, Perfect Blue -recently ripped off by hollywood-, Vampire Hunter : Bloodlust, Spirited Away, .. etc etc etc .. just to name few)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry guys .. but people who really think that anime is all about hot blooded dudes fighting, nudity, gore and titties .. you are dead wrong and obviously know nothing about anime .. at best the ratio of good show to crappy ones is 50/50 .. and not only that .. but that 50% of good mature anime includes numerous show (in hundreds) and encompass all sorts of topics and mature themes that are never discussed in cartoon and probably will never be like i said above once (name one western cartoon that dealt with Quantum Mechanics, Time Travel, Sexual Identity, Psychology, Nature of Existence and Human Souls, Natural Disasters, Cruelty of War, Discrimination, Bio-terrorism, Detailed Futuristic Technology .. etc etc) .. NEVER any of these topics been discussed in any western cartoon and probably will never be .. mature western cartoons my ass.

The Boondocks
Family Guy
Futurama
Afro samurai
Samurai Jack
Batman
Young Justice
Justice leauge

All these american/western cartoon might use crude humor or approach some decent topics .. but never in the way the animes above do and not with the same fidelity and quality in both narration and art .. far from it.

Heck .. if you want to compare anime to a western mediums you would have to compare it to (Hollywood Movies+Western Cartoons+Western Novels+TV shows) combined to be fair ... actually many animes are inspired by mature western novels (like "Ghost in the Shell" is inspired by the Neruomancer Sci-Fi novel) ... and "Legend of Galactic Hereos" single-handedly outdoes all western TV shows about sci-fi space-operas .. so comparing the totally shallow western cartoons to anime is laughable and pathetic really .. so please learn about the subject you are talking about before spouting nonsense XD

 

[MetaKnight19]

Some are, because all western cartoons seem to be made for kids...

Agreed, although maybe not all western cartoons are made specifically made for kids, but yes the majority seems to be. Even if some cartoons aren't made for kids, for the most part the kind of humour found in them definitely seems to be geared towards the younger audience.

On a side note, love your avatar. That's Yuu from Kore Zombie Desu Ka, correct? I stumbled upon it the other day and its pretty good. For what the subject matter is anyway.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Some are, because all western cartoons seem to be made for kids...

On a side note, love your avatar. That's Yuu from Kore Zombie Desu Ka, correct?

Yes, it is.

 

[Aethren]

Well, considering The Simpsons, about half of South Park, and Darkwing Duck are/were the only western cartoons I actually liked, I don't really care which is more mature or not, I just prefer Anime more.

 

[Kurokasumi]

I would really only agree if you took like... Elfen Lied vs Spiderman and Batman cartoons. But in the same way if you take like, Azumanga Diaoh and compare it with Spongebob there both just as about random and "mature".
Generally though, I would have to say that Anime tends to take itself a little more seriously. At least the uncensored original versions. Just what I notice whenever I watch western cartoons like with DC universe and stuff, it's always about just saving the day. Anime tends to be much more complicated and have deeper depth. As well as they will often just kill characters by means of shot, stabbed, hit by a car, as is often bloody and violent. Whereas in a DC movie a character will just lose in a fight and die from wounds caused from... lasers and other things.
Just my personal opinion.

 

[aaliya]

If Anime will take them seriously.. then they will not able to called anime.. I am sure that after that they will be human beings what I never want to do with Anime... This will be surely a bad decision..

 

[boholikeu]

It depends. Some animes are better dramas, but Some western cartoons are more topical and sattirical.

I pretty much agree with this.

japanesse animation can have non sexaulized lesbians, any amaricain cartoons have that?

Really? What anime are they in? I have to say that's pretty surprising.

The thing is that the serious ones exist. That simply doesn't happen often in the west: we have the idea that cartoons are simple and childish, capable of conveying nothing more than comedy or, at most, simple children's morals. We live in a culture where a popular response to a testimony of the emotional impact of Pixar's "Up" is, "But isn't it a cartoon?" Of course the majority of anime is immature and stupid: the majority of any medium is immature and stupid. It's a simple application of Sturgeon's Law. But Japan understands much better than western culture that animation can be mature, and as a result the good 10% in Japan tends to be, on the whole, much more mature and interesting than the 10% of western animation. With the exception of Avatar: The Last Airbender. That show is amazing.

Again I don't see how you can say the top 10% of Japanese animation is more mature that the top 10% of western animation. Though the fact that you think Avatar is on the top of the Western list might have something to do with that. Check out stuff like Persepolis or Waking Life if you don't like the satire stuff that you usually see in Western animation.

Not that I don't like Avatar. I think it's great, but just not what I have in mind when I think of the best of the best of mature Western animation.

Sudden Question: (i dare you to name one western cartoon that dealt with Quantum Mechanics, Time Travel, Sexual Identity, Psychology, Nature of Existence and Human Souls, Natural Disasters, Cruelty of War, Discrimination, Bio-terrorism, Detailed Futuristic Technology .. etc etc) .. NEVER any of these topics been discussed in any western cartoon and probably will never be.

Funny, South Park has covered nearly all those topics, and some of them much more thoroughly than I've seen in anime.

Heck, while we're at it, I've never seen anime that's dealt with racism, national politics, and current events with the same amount of depth that I've seen many western cartoons. Satire also seems very rare in anime unless it's critiquing their own otaku culture.

I would really only agree if you took like... Elfen Lied vs Spiderman and Batman cartoons. But in the same way if you take like, Azumanga Diaoh and compare it with Spongebob there both just as about random and "mature".
Generally though, I would have to say that Anime tends to take itself a little more seriously. At least the uncensored original versions. Just what I notice whenever I watch western cartoons like with DC universe and stuff, it's always about just saving the day. Anime tends to be much more complicated and have deeper depth. As well as they will often just kill characters by means of shot, stabbed, hit by a car, as is often bloody and violent. Whereas in a DC movie a character will just lose in a fight and die from wounds caused from... lasers and other things.
Just my personal opinion.

Believe me, there is plenty of anime that doesn't take itself seriously, you just never see it because it hardly ever leaves Japan. Once again, I think the proportions are roughly the same if you look at everything that's being made.

It's mostly the way anime is treated. In the west we tend to dismiss cartoons and comics as "Kids stuff", attempts to break away from the mold with cartoons... Well... Haven't ended well. Treasure planet is a good example, supposedly several people had trouble taking the drama and relationship between the main character and the father figure seriously mostly because of the fact it was a "Cartoon". While anime and manga in japan is usually seen as things for all ages, and isn't really dismissed by as many people as "Kid's Stuff"

Just look at Hellsing and Death Note, those are two VERY mature animes and are very successful, while we here in the U.S. are still suffering from a bit of the "Animation Age Ghetto" and are beginning to replace all our "Billy And Mandy"'s and "Courage the Cowardly Dog"s with shows like "Flapjack" or "Chowder".

Death Note is fairly popular here, but I think a lot of people in the West would be surprised to find out how little known mature titles are here in Japan. There's a big misconception that Japan is some haven of anime and manga. In actuality, your average Japanese person probably thinks anime is just for kids (or anti-social geeks).

 

[Lonely Swordsman]

There's immature anime and there's immature cartoons.
There's mature anime and there's mature cartoons.
There's good anime and good cartoons and there's bad anime and bad cartoons.

Any percieved differences between the media are purely arbitrary and mostly related to budget and certain style conventions in art and animation.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

As someone who lives in Japan I can tell you that this is simply not true. Adults that read manga/watch anime are just as ostracized in Japan as they are in the US (perhaps even a bit more)

I can tell you're full of it.
Japan may ostracize otaku culture, but why in the world would there be thousands of manga dedicated to adult readers that deal with drama, intrigue, romance and even a few epics if the prime demographics are children and teens? Try to explain why there would be an 18+ rating for millions of manga if their readers are suppose to be young people? And no, saying there's "sex" in it doesn't account for everything.


EDIT: I make no claim to know all about this, but I too have a friend who's been in Tokyo for over 6 years and tells me that it's not unusual to see adults buying manga. It just depends on people's tastes and of course not everyone reads manga. But still, comics just aren't looked at the same way as they are in the West.

Say what you will, but manga is a fluid medium like just like film and literature.