Is Doom 2016 has best FPS level design since Half life or even 90s old shooters?

[Poetic Nova]

lassic Doom games: The Demons being there already to get slaughtered by you and not wait for the next monster to spawn.
Yes, the original Dooms games spawn monsters as well, but it wasn't a major factor. Most Demons you kill was already part of the map.

Regarding these 2 lines:

Yes, the original Doom and its sequel did this, but very rarely (although they were teleported in from an inaccesible part of the map). There are only 2 or 3 maps that I recall doing this (2 of which in Ultimate Doom). Which, btw, is another factor why I dont enjoy Doom 2016 as much.

 

[kiri3tsubasa]

I think that Wolfenstein: The New Order had better level design then Doom 2016.

 

[Sharia]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

Developers seem so scared these days of the player being stuck or lost, that it actually causes the odd game like Dark Souls to stick out like a rather sore thumb, when really it shouldn't. The semi-recent push for more a cinematics style to the way narrative is presented in videogames has also been a contributor. While not an FPS, the developer of FFXIII comments and reasoning as to why the game is so linear will always remain with me as one big joke, and that includes the statement that certain, popular at the time, western titles were quite a big influence in the whole thing.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

While it is certainly better than many newer shooters. The level design is still overly linear and almost always resorts to having you walk into a big square room to be locked in and battle respawning demons until the game decides you can move forward. It isn't exactly thrilling.

I enjoyed the game for what it was, don't get me wrong. Amazing level design though? Not quite.

 

[Fox12]

Complexity doesn't necessarily equal quality. I'm not a fan of straight lines, but I don't like getting lost in a video game labrynth either. Besides, we still had games like Metroid Prime coming out until somewhat recently. If you want to branch out of shooters, then Dark Soul's has had some of the best map design ever.

Were... Were you just saving that for the next B-cell thread? Because I think I love you.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

Developers seem so scared these days of the player being stuck or lost, that it actually causes the odd game like Dark Souls to stick out like a rather sore thumb, when really it shouldn't. The semi-recent push for more a cinematics style to the way narrative is presented in videogames has also been a contributor. While not an FPS, the developer of FFXIII comments and reasoning as to why the game is so linear will always remain with me as one big joke, and that includes the statement that certain, popular at the time, western titles were quite a big influence in the whole thing.

.


You can turn off indicate marker. I'm playing it by turning off glory highlights. Game is masterpiece IMO. Never impressed with any game in recent years that much.

 

[Hawki]

For God shake, why you are again so agressive with B-Cell?
Yes, he established he LOVE DOOM to Death. And yes, I disagree with his opinion.
What will happen if I post at some point the translated Greek Doom Comic I promised? Will you attack me as well?
I am doing this also for love you know. I don't want others to express their hate just become I made a thread about Doom...
Lets agree or disagree with B-Cell more maturely, ok?
Also me neither know proper grammar, punctuation and spelling, so sorry guys.
Peace.

Elvis has explained this, but I can point out the reasons:

-Condescension. He repeatedly uses terms like "friends" or "my friend," despite no such relationship existing.

-The posts he does are effectively clickbait. That's not bad in of itself (but certainly not good), but these are examples of leading questions, designed more to push a certain line of thought than facilitate actual discussion. For example this thread is titled
"Is Doom 2016 has best FPS level design since Half life or even 90s old shooters?" Poor grammar aside, that's a leading question, and it's obvious that the thread is going to be pushing this line of thought above all else. An example of a non-leading question would be "which FPS has/had the best level design?"

This is done over, and over, and over. For example, lets look at the threads B-cell has started in recent times. These threads are titled:

*"The best Horror game of all time is not belong to resident evil or silent hills imo but.."

*"Was bioshock infinite the worst AAA FPS ever made?"

*"Top 5 most overrated games of this generation?"

*"Are almost all military shooters mediocre since Medal of Honor 1999?"

There are other threads, true, but these are just examples that he's taken part in in the past month alone.

-Clickbaity posts would be fine if they were intended to facilitate discussion. Except they're not. B-cell ends his opening posts with "discuss," but this isn't a discussion he wants, it's a soapbox to voice his opinion, damn whoever disagrees with it. There's a dishonesty in intent there at best, and at worst, it wastes the time of anyone who genuinely wants to discuss this.

-The soapboxing by itself isn't well thought out. For example, lets look at the start of his BioShock Infinite tirade:

Hello,

so my friends when i looks into AAA FPS games. theres so many bad ones but not bioshock infinite tier bad. bioshock infinite even got higher reviews than Half life 2 and System shock 2 which is big facepalm worthy.

The game even has worst level deisgn and worst Shooting mechanics in FPS game i have ever seen in very high rated game. I never seen anything good about this game. Game absolutely suck as FPS. "but but its action adventure game.." no its not. its also horrible action game too. if you cant make shooting right in FPS, nor level design whats the point of making FPS game? that is rouge warrior tier game. then theres elizabeth that annoying teenager sidekick. this is easily one of the worst FPS i have ever played in my lifetime. the game is basically tomb raider of FPS genre. even COD and its clone are better than this.

what do you think my friend? are there any worse AAA FPS game than bioshock infinite? discuss.

See what's wrong? Here, let me explain:

1) Is a game getting higher reviews than another really face-palm worthy? If so, explain.

2) Explain why the level design and shooting mechanics are bad, don't just say they're bad.

3) Explain why a FPS automatically requires "level design" to function and/or explain why the "old school" is better than more linear variants.

4) What makes Elizabeth annoying?

5) What's wrong with Tomb Raider and/or CoD?

Now, B-cell has vented his opinion for me to know what he considers wrong with these elements/games, but taking the argument by itself, it's terrible. It's poorly written, and relies on nothing more than "this is bad because I say it's bad." Every debate of this nature is inherently subjective, but one can at least try to make a case for why they think this way. B-cell either can't or won't, and after all these months, if not years of posting, he hasn't improved.

-And finally, to top it all off...it's BORING. Even without these threads, B-cell has made his views clear so many times that we don't need the threads to know what he thinks. Yes, he loved Doom 2016. Good for him. Didn't need a thread to have the same point reiterated over and over. In the past, there was some unitentional humour to these posts due to how poorly reasoned they were, but either a) he's still incapable of putting forth an argument, or b) he's just trolling. Either way, I'm tired of both. So much that explaining to you why B-cell's posts are poorly made was more interesting than taking part in the 'discussion' itself.

 

[Skatalite]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

I kind of like the way they handled this in Dead Space actually. Not just because it's optional, but because it fit with the game's world. Much better than the usual arrows or markers you see in other games at least. And it didn't affect the design of the game itself either, which is what happened with Dead Space 3 (co-op, microtransactions).

 

[Sharia]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

Developers seem so scared these days of the player being stuck or lost, that it actually causes the odd game like Dark Souls to stick out like a rather sore thumb, when really it shouldn't. The semi-recent push for more a cinematics style to the way narrative is presented in videogames has also been a contributor. While not an FPS, the developer of FFXIII comments and reasoning as to why the game is so linear will always remain with me as one big joke, and that includes the statement that certain, popular at the time, western titles were quite a big influence in the whole thing.

.


You can turn off indicate marker. I'm playing it by turning off glory highlights. Game is masterpiece IMO. Never impressed with any game in recent years that much.

There was only one thing that really stood out to me as I played the new Doom and that was these green lights on platforms basically telling the player exactly where they should and should not be jumping. I felt it so unnecessary that it bugged me and I've got a sneaky feeling you cant turn those off.

 

[RedDeadFred]

You are a good person.

OT: The only FPS's I've played in recent years were all open world, so I don't think my opinion counts for much in this. I will say that I loved the level designs of Bioshock Infinite.

 

[Sharia]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

I kind of like the way they handled this in Dead Space actually. Not just because it's optional, but because it fit with the game's world. Much better than the usual arrows or markers you see in other games at least. And it didn't affect the design of the game itself either, which is what happened with Dead Space 3.

You're right, it is rather fitting. Don't get me wrong, I don't really have much of an issue with these things, especially when they are optional. I bought it up just as an example, the introduction of such things have definitely increased over time. I do question their necessity though. If games like the original Silent Hill and Resident Evil work fine without directional pointers, I fail to see why someone would ever think a game like RE6 needed one...

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Level design /=/ game design. Having the most intricately designed maps means very little when they're put to such trivial, forced use. I'd say that even the original Bioshock has more significant level design that the player can use as they see fit.

Why limit it to FPS though? Other genres have far better examples of good level design that compliments game design. For example -

 

[MysticSlayer]

It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

I think it is a lot deeper than that.

For starters, quite a few FPS designs remove a lot of the mechanical reason for sprawling, maze-like levels. We no longer have to search for health packs or armor (regenerating health), weapons or ammo (they're all dropped by the killed enemies), story fragments (it's all given as we move along), or power-ups (not good for semi-realism). An open level works for these, because they reward exploration. When remove all of them, then there's little reason to keep an open design since there's no reward in exploring. Conversely, even story-heavy games that rely on some level of item collection and story-hunting (e.g. BioShock games) tend to have slightly more open design.

I do agree that cinematics and not wanting the player to get lost play a role (I think Valve said as much in one of the Half-Life games' commentary). But from a more mechanical standpoint, many games like Call of Duty or Portal simply don't work with very open design. There's just nothing to reward the player with for exploring the way games like DOOM and BioShock reward exploration.

Is this guy the ghost of Eternal Nothingness?

Who is eternal nothingness?

He's been banned for a couple years. From what I remember, he was pretty infamous for his obsessions. I don't even know why he got banned. Maybe it was for creating too many threads about the stuff he obsessed over. I seem remember seeing like 2-3 of his Dragon Age 2 vs. The Witcher 2 threads all on the front page of Game Discussion at one point.

 

[Naraku578]

Too many levels in doom were linear, and the fact that at many points the game would hold you lock you in place until you kill all the demons is a bad idea from modern games.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Is this guy the ghost of Eternal Nothingness?

Who is eternal nothingness?

He's been banned for a couple years. From what I remember, he was pretty infamous for his obsessions. I don't even know why he got banned. Maybe it was for creating too many threads about the stuff he obsessed over. I seem remember seeing like 2-3 of his Dragon Age 2 vs. The Witcher 2 threads all on the front page of Game Discussion at one point.

He got banned when the mods had enough of his obsession with MLP and this constant threads compaing the show to DBZ. Also he reveal he has a fetish toward this balloon thing aswell (not gonna mention it in details). It's prtty clear he had a disorder or some kind since he mention about taking some meds.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

While your argument isn't put well at all, one can't be blind to the gradual shift over time when it comes to map design. It ultimately goes hand in hand with the gradual introduction of handholding devices such as over done way points/markers and certain direction-pointing abilities such as that that found in Dead Space (be them optional or not)

Developers seem so scared these days of the player being stuck or lost, that it actually causes the odd game like Dark Souls to stick out like a rather sore thumb, when really it shouldn't. The semi-recent push for more a cinematics style to the way narrative is presented in videogames has also been a contributor. While not an FPS, the developer of FFXIII comments and reasoning as to why the game is so linear will always remain with me as one big joke, and that includes the statement that certain, popular at the time, western titles were quite a big influence in the whole thing.

.


You can turn off indicate marker. I'm playing it by turning off glory highlights. Game is masterpiece IMO. Never impressed with any game in recent years that much.

There was only one thing that really stood out to me as I played the new Doom and that was these green lights on platforms basically telling the player exactly where they should and should not be jumping. I felt it so unnecessary that it bugged me and I've got a sneaky feeling you cant turn those off.

tbh I enjoy new Doom more than previous games. I loved Doom 3 but it was slower game with weak shooting mechanics and very linear corridor shooter. still excellent game. Doom 1/2 were classic but now they are not age well unless we count brutal doom but that is mod. before the waiting for new Doom i was playing some brutal doom. unlike classic doom that game support free mouse look.

Doom reboot quickly become one of my fav game of all time. I just cant stop playing. its so damn amazing.

 

[Amigastar]

I love how the new Doom has some kind of abstract levels but when playing you don't notice this necessarily, the levels flow organic but like i said also abstract. And thats how it should be.

 

[DOOM GUY]

I wouldn't go all the way back to the 90s, maybe around 2005-2007, but it's really not saying much to have better level design than the majority of FPS games after that time period.