Is "dropping the n-bomb" racist?

[Cartographer]

On a related note, is Oriental a slur word?

Well seeing as "westerner" isn't a slur, I can't imagine how oriental, which means "from the east" can be.
It's referring to a person or thing's origin and even the USA with it's odd insistence of using African American instead of Black and Caucasian instead of White is specifically referring to origin with those descriptions (though it's odd that since we all hail from Africa if you go back far enough, we're not all given that moniker).

Yes oriental is usually considered insulting, not the same as " westerner" but more like when They call people of European descent "Hairy barbarians".
Though some may not take offense to being called a hairy barbarian, it doesn't make it any less insulting. LOL

Where exactly is "oriental" considered insulting?
Given it historically refers to Turkey and the middle east or north Africa, but the more modern description would include eastern Asia, those to whom it refers have changed greatly.
Certainly some of the more modern "wild west" films have used the description to refer to Chinese immigrants to the US (usually with an attached f---ing), but I was under the impression that it was well known that was a poke at the general lack of education or level of ignorance of the typical frontier type of the time.

Also, hairy barbarian is frankly the kind of drivel a pre-school child would come up with, who uses that?

Next thing you know, people will be complaining that "stupid person" is a slur of some sort...

From my understanding " oriental" became a racial slur due to the usage that developed during the Vietnam war. The promotion of the "US vs orientals" made it very difficult for Asian Americans who were segregated and chastised for their race.

"Hairy barbarian" is a racial slur used by Japanese to describe Europeans. The racial stereotype of Europeans in Japan was they were ignorant, undisciplined, unsophisticated, sloppy, uncivilized hairy barbarians and people feared them.

Interesting, I was completely unaware of the use of the word in 1950s USA. I imagine the majority of the rest of the world would be as well, but I can't say for certain. I reject your notion that it is an insult however, that would be you reading into it, something that simply isn't there, we are not in the 1950s any more and speaking for myself, I am not in the USA. Context, as with most things, is everything.

Gaijin in Japanese is often translated as barbarian, but again, context is key. I hope you would agree that "foreigner" is rarely used as an insult, more as a description, and that is arguably the better translation in any context except where someone is screaming it at the top of their lungs.

Me reading into it? In US universities, it is taught to be a racial slur.

"n. often Oriental
1. Often Offensive An Asian, especially a South Asian, Southeast Asian, or East Asian.

Usage Note: Oriental is now considered outdated and often offensive in American English when referring to a person of Asian birth or descent. "

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/oriental
I didn't make it a racial slur, I was TAUGHT it was a racial slur. I am not the one inventing this,just letting you know how it is being taught here.
I did not invent the Japans racial slurs as well, only educated about them.

The key phrase there is "American English".
No-one can be held hostage by the historical usage of language, out of context, in countries and locales utterly foreign to them. To expect otherwise is frankly insane.
If someone from the USA, in full knowledge of the history of the word, used it in an insulting context, then yes, it would be an insult. Otherwise, it's a word referring to a geographical location and the people, culture and history of said location.

While I thank you for enlightening me, I find your assertion a little disturbing.

As for the Japanese, the language has precious few actual slurs and Gaijin isn't one. Though I note you haven't expressed an opinion on whether we should be talking about the modern contraction of "gaikokujin" or the 200 year-old "ketou"? The latter, I haven't heard outside of period dramas it's so archaic.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

It would be intellectually dishonest to attempt to compare people being offended by gay people existing and one being offended by the word " ******."

I said in my response that some instances of offense being taken are more legitimate than others. Me bringing up homophobic people wasn't an attempt to equate them with those that are offended by the "n-word", I was trying to point out that in order for something to be offensive, someone has to be offended by it. In public, things like profane language are not advisable. In private, amongst people who know your intentions and you know theirs, it's a much different matter. People are free to say and do anything in private as long as others aren't hurt. One could argue that private discussions influence attitudes in public, but that's a different discussion entirely.

People have died, been beaten and physically and emotionally abused under this term, in this day, not even in the past. This hasn't stopped, the KKK still parade around shouting "kill the niggers!" even now. They do advocate those things, as that is should be understood about gangsta rap, it is not just an expression of words, but a promotion of lifestyle.

Which is why I would not advocate the use of the n-word in public, because of America's troubled past (and present).

And in terms of gangsta rap being a promotion of a lifestyle? Sure, much of it can be seen that way. That doesn't mean it's not a valuable part of culture, even if it does promote hedonism, misogyny, violence, greed, etc. You don't need to share those ideals to appreciate the music. I like black metal, some of the bands I listen to are actively racist and have anti-Semitic lyrics. But I still listen to it, I might even appreciate the lyrical content even though I find the inspiration to be abhorrent.

On the same tangent, generally the same thing goes for all the kids saying "fag", "******", "trap" and other slurs like that.

This is interesting as I used to identify as a "trap". Not so much anymore though, but I can see both why one would be offended by the word and why one would regard it as a compliment.

I used to perceive it as a form of validation, "You can look indistinguishable from a biological female". But I understand that it is kind of a cheap "compliment", as it suggests that there's a specific way that men and women should look, it treats me like a novelty and it also treats me as a deceiver. It's weird. I never use the word though, not anymore.

See for, me I do not think that it IS a different discussion, that is why I see it as either being a closet asshole or just an asshole. LOL

To me I do not see this barrier of public and private usage being all that different. I do not need someone standing there to be offended for my actions to be what I consider offensive. I do not excuse my own actions simply because someone wasn't there to be harmed by them. I see who you are in Private as the truth and public fronts as being a lie, being fake. If they are keeping it real they are the same person either way.

 

[And Man]

I can't find a specific clip with it, but 'The Hebrew Hammer' explained it best, it's okay when minorities uses slur words against themin their own communities, but people outside those communities using them is almost always looked as racism.

On a related note, is Oriental a slur word?

I wouldn't say Oriental is a slur, but rather, it's an outdated term that is often offensive. I'd relate it to the word "negro"

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Words are just words. Context is everything.

If the word ****** on its own is considered racist, then so should saying the "N-word". As Louie CK said, if you say the N-word, everyone knows what you mean. You're still putting the word "******" in the listener's mind.

Words are not just words.

They are blueprints. They are ideas. They are the very thing that creates meaning in our minds. In the grand scheme of existence, words are just a concept. In society, it's the very foundation of how we interact.

The N-word is used to show respect. Some people just don't want to hear it. And it's not like people are going "Yo, That's my N-word right there!" or "Fuck that N-word!". It's the same as F-bomb. Mixed company. You don't want to offend, but the situation calls that you have to refer to it.

Let's put it this way.

There's a difference between (*sighs*) Rappers using the N-word and Cops. A lot of people want to point to Rap music and say "see, they are making it ok. There's no weight to the word any more" Rappers are not calling for everyone to consider blacks to be lesser. The bottom line is this.

Would you like to see the graphic truth?

Spoiler: 4 cops in Fort Lauderdale Lose their Jobs over racist tweets

The Fort Lauderdale Police Department has fired three officers and another has resigned after an internal investigation found that they had exchanged multiple racist text messages and shared a racist video trailer parodying President Obama. The investigation began after one of the officer's fiancées tipped off his superiors that "her would-be husband constantly expressed his racist views toward black people." [http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/fort-lauderdale-cops-fired-for-racist-messages.html]

What is striking this about this case is that one of the officers said that he only did it to 'fit in with the other officers'. And that he had a black best friend since the third grade. Whether the black best friend is true or not, imagine having to feign racism to fit in with your co-workers. What does that say about the place where you work? And more over, these people work by 'protecting' the group they hate

Spoiler: Michael Daragjati, Racist NYPD Cop, Sentenced To Nearly 5 Years For False Arrest and Extortion

Michael Dargjati, 33, an eight-year NYPD veteran assigned to Staten Island, was arrested and stripped of his badge last October after federal agents caught him on a wiretap plotting an extortion scheme involving an off-duty snowplow business. He can also be heard using racist language to boast about setting up innocent black men for arrest. [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/racist-nypd-cop-michael-daragjati-sentenced-false-arrest-extortion-stop-and-frisk_n_1619812.html]

Spoiler: 1,000 Criminal Cases To Be Reviewed In Wake Of Racist, Homophobic Texts Sent Between San Francisco Cops

San Francisco Public Defender Jeff Adachi estimates as many as 1,000 criminal cases will be reviewed following the racist and homophobic text messages allegedly sent by four San Francisco police officers.
Adachi and his colleagues said today that their office has already identified 120 cases involving two of the four officers and said those cases could get thrown out beginning as early as next week.
District Attorney George Gascon said he was ?deeply disturbed by these text messages? and said that ?in order to ensure our criminal justice system is fair and equitable,? his office will also be assessing every prosecution in the past 10 years in which the officers participated.

I mean, we can obviously sit here and point to the black community and say what they are doing and the like. And yes, they are using the word. But not most of them are being racist to themselves.

The word is racist because it's the go-to for racists. That's it. It is literally still used today to say "That is not a human, that's a subhuman creature that has no barring in my mind". That's why it has power. It is as powerful as any flag, any uniform, any tattoo or whatever. Even more so. Because you can hold it to your chest and fly it out when you feel 'safe'.

You can go about your day unassailed, and then when you feel like you want to share in the power of it, you can tweet it or get together with your friends and dream about blasting away all the N-words.

It's not just a word then. It becomes a manifesto.

 

[viscomica]

This thread makes me remember Louis C.K when he said that white people saying "the N word" on tv an such is only the way of saying it without saying it out loud but that it places that word inside your head.
I agree with Bebop, censoring words is a very American thing to do. Also, I don't understand why black people using that word is empowering since it really doesn't happen with other groups (and their respective derogatory terms) that are being discriminated against.
I guess since I'm not American I wouldn't understand anyway, but it does baffle me.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

This thread makes me remember Louis C.K when he said that white people saying "the N word" on tv an such is only the way of saying it without saying it out loud but that it places that word inside your head.
I agree with Bebop, censoring words is a very American thing to do. Also, I don't understand why black people using that word is empowering since it really doesn't happen with other groups (and their respective derogatory terms) that are being discriminated against.
I guess since I'm not American I wouldn't understand anyway, but it does baffle me.

Think of it the same as women using the word " slut walk" to make a point. This isn't just a thing done in the US..

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-13739876

It does happen with other groups.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Can (hopefully) grown up adults stop using "N-Word" and "F-Bomb"? I can't take anyone serious who talks like kindergardners while discussing actualy issues.

 

[Fox12]

It is in America, absolutely. You have to remember that it's a term tied to institutionalize slavery. After slavery ended it became a racial slur that was used to insult African Americans throughout the nation (despite popular belief, it wasn't just contained in the south). People were beaten, lynched, and raped. People were abused by the KKK. People were abused by the police. People were abused by companies and store owners. And, all the time, those authority figures were calling you a dirty n*****. It was a racial slur that implied you were less of a human being. Obviously I don't expect non-Americans to know about American history, but you can probably see why this term and subject is still extremely sensitive. Many of the members of the civil rights movement are still alive. People who were beaten, and experiances racism first hand. Their children and grand children are still connected to these events. People remember.

It is true that the term has lost some of its potency, but it's still one of the most offensive terms you could use in America. The term is widely used by African Americans, and I know a lot of black people who are fine with a close white friend using it as slang, but if you go to America then I would reccomend you never use it. In fact, I would say to not use it at all, no matter where you are.

 

[babinro]

Nope.

As with any word it depends on the context and meaning of the word use. I don't see why any word should be considered socially 'off limits' just because of your gender/race/etc.

For example...I grew up using terms like eskimo, oriental and gay without ever applying any intentional negative or offensive context to them. To be perfectly honest, I only just learned that oriental is apparently a bad word this year. Go figure.

Can't say I've ever noticeably offended anyone in real life with the above word use either. I wouldn't consider myself to be a racist person but I suppose others may think differently.

 

[Fox12]

From checking wikipedia apperantly Oriental is considered offensive only in the US but non offensive in England and other english speaking countries.

That's weird, I live in America and the terms always been used as a politically correct term. Like how African American would be seen as more politically correct then "black," or homosexual is seen as more polite then simply saying "gay." That may vary between region, though.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

From checking wikipedia apperantly Oriental is considered offensive only in the US but non offensive in England and other english speaking countries.

That's weird, I live in America and the terms always been used as a politically correct term. Like how African American would be seen as more politically correct then "black," or homosexual is seen as more polite then simply saying "gay." That may vary between region, though.

If you are in "America" it has not been politically correct since the Vietnam war. Now being in America and not being aware it is recognized as being offensive that is a completely different matter. HAHA

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

As with any use of language, the word '******' being offensive depends on context. I don't think there's really any argument that can say it cannot cause offence since it absolutely can and most certainly will, there is no question there. The main issue with '******' in particular over many other words that are *clearly* offensive (ie. they do not have a usage that is not explicitly offensive) is that it has evolved in recent years/decade(s) to have two meanings and instead of falling out of the vernacular, it has stayed on and possibly even become popularised.

Like with other contranyms (such as 'left', 'rent' or 'screen') '******' has two opposite meanings. The first is the offensive one that is a racial slur. It is derogatory to black people and is loaded with connotations of historical mistreatment in America during slavery and pre-civil rights movement. The other meaning is a good, inoffensive one that equates roughly to bro, friend, mate, buddy, pal, homie, homeboy, main man, etc. In writing, the latter could be written as 'nigga' but in reality it is a different word that happens to have the same spelling and pronunciation.

So with one word that has two meanings, one of which is a racial slur and the other of which is a genial term for a friend (both usually used with a black person) it's a very difficult word to use. If intending to cause offense, then use it freely. Everyone will consider the speaker a racist and that's that, quite uncomplicated. If intending to use the second meaning, personally I can't see it ever working with a black person that isn't considered a close, personal friend. Calling a stranger '******' is almost certain to come across as the offensive meaning whether it's intended or not, whereas a friend will know it's meant genially.

As for another poster's question about the word "oriental", that's not offensive where I'm from (UK). I can't imagine why it would be. It's an adjective that means "of the orient" and can be ascribed to things as well as people (oriental food, clothing, rug, tapestry, spices, etc). It's no different than "European" or "British" in a sense, although the Orient isn't a strict, geographic place. Instead it encompasses the near-east, middle-east and far-east (pretty much most of Asia, minus the Indian subcontinent).

 

[RedDeadFred]

Snip

I don't think you're wrong, but what you're saying supports more that the context of a word's use is racist, not the word itself. The word ****** just happens to have a lot more contexts in which its use is racist.

Also, I understand why people say things like "F-word" instead of simply saying the word, but that doesn't mean it actually makes sense. When someone says "F that" to me, I know exactly what they mean. There's really no need to hide behind the first letter IMO. Having said that, I still do it simply because it's a societal norm and I do not wish to offend people. Even if them taking offense doesn't make sense.

 

[Fox12]

From checking wikipedia apperantly Oriental is considered offensive only in the US but non offensive in England and other english speaking countries.

That's weird, I live in America and the terms always been used as a politically correct term. Like how African American would be seen as more politically correct then "black," or homosexual is seen as more polite then simply saying "gay." That may vary between region, though.

If you are in "America" it has not been politically correct since the Vietnam war. Now being in America and not being aware it is recognized as being offensive that is a completely different matter. HAHA

Hmm, strange. I've never used the term myself, mostly because I find it innacurate. After all, the orient is only a part of the larger Asian continent. That said, I've never heard it used in a pejorative way. Rather, when I see it, as a history student, it's usually in the context of the location. "He travelled along the orient" ect. I suppose I could see how calling someone an "oriental" person would be offensive, though.

A quick Internet search shows that the terms negative context is a recent development, beginning largely in the 70s. Oh my, now I'm terribly embarrassed.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

From checking wikipedia apperantly Oriental is considered offensive only in the US but non offensive in England and other english speaking countries.

That's weird, I live in America and the terms always been used as a politically correct term. Like how African American would be seen as more politically correct then "black," or homosexual is seen as more polite then simply saying "gay." That may vary between region, though.

If you are in "America" it has not been politically correct since the Vietnam war. Now being in America and not being aware it is recognized as being offensive that is a completely different matter. HAHA

Hmm, strange. I've never used the term myself, mostly because I find it innacurate. After all, the orient is only a part of the larger Asian continent. That said, I've never heard it used in a pejorative way. Rather, when I see it, as a history student, it's usually in the context of the location. "He travelled along the orient" ect. I suppose I could see how calling someone an "oriental" person would be offensive, though.

A quick Internet search shows that the terms negative context is a recent development, beginning largely in the 70s. Oh my, now I'm terribly embarrassed.

yea the 70's due to the vietmnam war. XD

 

[GabeZhul]

I kind of find it amusing how the US exports its slurs along its popular culture. Case in point: I live in Hungary. In my 25 years I have only met about a handful of black people here, almost all of them in the capital, yet the world "******" is just as entrenched here.

There is a flipside to this as well though: We have a type of confectionery called "Negro". It is a black hard candy created by one Pietro Negro, and it has been in production for nearly 90 years now, yet you can still find foreigners on YouTube and other places getting outraged over how "racist" it is.

The moral of the story? Context is everything, and people just love to jump to conclusions and declare something "offensive", because getting outraged feels better than sitting down and actually researching said context.

 

[Totenkreuz]

Well it always depend on context and culture, but it seems like everyone here understand that. For me I've never been in such a situation where any sort of racist situations has occured but I'm not living anywhere near a place where there are alot of cultures and I don't really socialize with many none friends anyways.

In short. There are so many different situations on almost every single occasion so I can't really answer such a question easy nor would it be a good idea but I can say that I would probably know when and when not to use what word or words, but if I would fail at that I would have no problems to change and/or refrase my choice of words.

I would also recommend this youtube video (you might skip to about 06:00 for the cultural thing), I agree on most of what he say there, mostly because the cultural difference and thatwe , in essence, shouldn't be quick to judge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbG8DvRKoJw

Cheers and sorry for the echo.

 

[lacktheknack]

It goes back to "Why bother?"

I can't think of any circumstances in which uttering "******" (or "nigga") would be the best course of action (unless you're reading a book, maybe). It hardly matters if the act is racist or not, all that matters is that, as of now, it will upset nearby people if you say it. Why would you want to do that? I wouldn't.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I don't think you're wrong, but what you're saying supports more that the context of a word's use is racist, not the word itself. The word ****** just happens to have a lot more contexts in which its use is racist.

Also, I understand why people say things like "F-word" instead of simply saying the word, but that doesn't mean it actually makes sense. When someone says "F that" to me, I know exactly what they mean. There's really no need to hide behind the first letter IMO. Having said that, I still do it simply because it's a societal norm and I do not wish to offend people. Even if them taking offense doesn't make sense.

A word born to basically separate humans from nigh human-looking cattle strikes to me of racism.

I get what you're saying about the F-word use. If I'm with people I have comfort with, I just say fuck. I worked with kids before, sometimes you catch them saying it. When their parents come, you take them aside and you have to explain the situation. F-word is useful there. Censorship on tv. Curses aren't allowed. But if you're quoting someone, you have to say "'F-- this' said Paris Hilton" to not get fined.

I... really didn't know people did the F-- thing seriously. I thought it was done stupidly as a joke like "I know I can say fuck, but this is funnier". Like Ron Burgundy's curses. Great Odin's Raven, or by the Beard of Zeus and things like that.