Is Ellie being gay going to factor into the plot of The Last of Us 2?

[Casual Shinji]

So I generally try to avoid doing this like the freaking plague, which is to heavily speculate about a game that is yet to come out. Because a) if I'm wrong I'll look a bit dumb, and b) I'll be bummed out when the game comes out and my ideas won't correlate with the actual plot. However, with the latest trailer for The Last of Us 2 dropping, things have started to click in my head. And I think I might have an idea where things are going.


This is mainly contained to the cult that seems to be at the centre of every trailer we've seen yet. First time knowing there was a cult I was a bit disappointed, because the post-apocalypse and cults generically go hand in hand. But there is one way this cult would make perfect sense in this universe. Humanity is struggling to survive, what with the infection and people killing eachother for safety and resources. I don't think it's crazy to say that at this rate humanity will slowly but surely go extinct. So what if this cult is violently dedicated to preserve the human species in the simpliest way one can; by procreation. Where the only human lives they value are the ones that can reproduce, and all the ones that don't are seen as wasting precious resources simply by existing and not adding to the birth rate. Hence why these individuals get the noose + disembowel treatment. This would include people who are sterile and maybe also people who don't want to have sex with the opposite... sex, i.e. gay people. Or maybe they deal with gay people in a less perminent, but still horrible way. Since I also doubt artificial insemination is a viable option anymore in this world.


This would give the cult's existence and actions some logical motivation, instead of them just being evil crazies. Maybe that girl Ellie smooches with gets nabbed and killed (or worse) by this cult along with several other people from Tommy's compound for this reason, and Ellie goes on a murder rampage to kill every last one 'm. Not just because they killed this girl, but because they killed them in part because of their sexual orrientation, and are traveling the country doing the same to other people.


And judging from the latest trailer there even seems to be an emphasis on gender in this cult. The goons seen thus far have been a mix of both men and women, with the men all sporting a bald head and the women having this sort of Princess Lea braid thing going on. And in the second trailer we see that the asian woman who pretty excessively gets her elbow smashed has this same hairdo, and the asian kid that saves her has a bald head. And apparently that kid is transgender in the game and is played by an actor that is transgendered. So this might serve as a subplot about this kid being forced into a gender role he or she doesn't feel comfortable with.


I've even sort of had a theory that maybe this cult arose from what used to be the Fireflies, after Joel laid waste to their headquarters, and killed the only medically trained people they have along with their leader. So that ontop of Joel screwing up one of the rare chances for a cure for humanity, he also unwittingly created this ruthless cult. That might be stretching it though, but it's the only way as of yet that I can think of including Joel and more importantly his past actions into the plot.


So what do you think, is this just really bad speculation, or am I on to something?

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I think Joel abandons Ellie because he finds out she's gay?

Pardon being judgemental but Joel is for all intents and purpose a american southerner/redneck, and those people are stereotyped for being bigotted to gays. And even in the face of human apocoplypse Joel is still bigotted to gays?

 

[The Purple Grape]

Probably, I always assumed Neil Druckmann wrote the plots one handed, shall we say. Gotta keep those Kotaku articles going.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I think Joel abandons Ellie because he finds out she's gay?

Pardon being judgemental but Joel is for all intents and purpose a american southerner/redneck, and those people are stereotyped for being bigotted to gays. And even in the face of human apocoplypse Joel is still bigotted to gays?

No.


First of all, no game developer is going to have a protagonist that's bigotted toward gays. At least, not ones that aren't from Russia or something. And secondly, Bill from the first game was gay, which Joel was aware of and had zero problems with.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Tis interesting speculation there. Certainly makes me hopeful to see these themes explored as they're quite plausible for that particular brutal unforgiving world with the population not looking to be doing itself any favours whatsoever. Would lead to some harrowing scenes I can imagine for sure. Everything about Joel is shrouded in mystery so far, I can't even begin to muse a possible direction for him considering the many different paths they are able to take.

Was not aware of a lot of the character information here, and now am already anticipating the inevitable tiresome sqwking from the usual suspects on this game's characters ruining their entertainment and all that jazz. Growing pains of a changing society perhaps.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I hope the central plot thread isn?t something like they killed the girl she was with from the demo and she?s out for revenge. That theme is played out regardless of orientation. I really doubt ND would do that anyways. They probably just wanted to establish a gay character lead and the kissing scenes were a vital step to that. I?m sure we?ll see more of their relationship, but hopefully not to the point where it takes center stage. A love story would be a very odd juxtaposition to what this series is about: survival in an apocalyptic world full of savages and infected creatures.

If they?re really continuing on from the original?s theme, then I?m sure her relationship with Joel will have a few more twists, and there will be more drama with the Fireflies and FEDRA. In the meantime chances are that Ellie is still being hunted and there is a bounty on Joel?s head.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I hope the central plot thread isn?t something like they killed the girl she was with from the demo and she?s out for revenge. That theme is played out regardless of orientation. I really doubt ND would do that anyways. They probably just wanted to establish a gay character lead and the kissing scenes were a vital step to that. I?m sure we?ll see more of their relationship, but hopefully not to the point where it takes center stage. A love story would be a very odd juxtaposition to what this series is about: survival in an apocalyptic world full of savages and infected creatures.

Well, we know from the reveal trailer that Ellie is out for blood, and the game is apparently all about hate. So something really bad is going to have to be the catalyst for this game's plot. Not just any ol' regular death or bandit raid.

Was not aware of a lot of the character information here, and now am already anticipating the inevitable tiresome sqwking from the usual suspects on this game's characters ruining their entertainment and all that jazz. Growing pains of a changing society perhaps.

I wouldn't be surprised if Neil Drukmann is pushing this angle just to piss off these usual suspects. And at this point anything that pokes these types I'm up for.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I think Joel abandons Ellie because he finds out she's gay?

Pardon being judgemental but Joel is for all intents and purpose a american southerner/redneck, and those people are stereotyped for being bigotted to gays. And even in the face of human apocoplypse Joel is still bigotted to gays?

No.


First of all, no game developer is going to have a protagonist that's bigotted toward gays. At least, not ones that aren't from Russia or something. And secondly, Bill from the first game was gay, which Joel was aware of and had zero problems with.

Regardless, I am dissapointed that Joel will not be a playable chacarter since the creators confirmed it:

https://www.polygon.com/e3/2018/6/14/17464810/the-last-of-us-2-e3-2018-trailer-ellie-joel-playable

And I have to be blunt, I never liked Ellie. And so far I doubt her being older and wiser will help that.

 

[sXeth]

I hope the central plot thread isn?t something like they killed the girl she was with from the demo and she?s out for revenge. That theme is played out regardless of orientation. I really doubt ND would do that anyways. They probably just wanted to establish a gay character lead and the kissing scenes were a vital step to that. I?m sure we?ll see more of their relationship, but hopefully not to the point where it takes center stage. A love story would be a very odd juxtaposition to what this series is about: survival in an apocalyptic world full of savages and infected creatures.

If they?re really continuing on from the original?s theme, then I?m sure her relationship with Joel will have a few more twists, and there will be more drama with the Fireflies and FEDRA. In the meantime chances are that Ellie is still being hunted and there is a bounty on Joel?s head.

Yeah, its not like the entire first game (and the DLC) was centered around the developing relationship between two people at all.

It was some hardcore survival and post-apocalyptic speculative fiction for sure. (Citation Needed)

 

[Casual Shinji]

Regardless, I am dissapointed that Joel will not be a playable chacarter since the creators confirmed it:

https://www.polygon.com/e3/2018/6/14/17464810/the-last-of-us-2-e3-2018-trailer-ellie-joel-playable

And I have to be blunt, I never liked Ellie. And so far I doubt her being older and wiser will help that.

Joel's story is done. He'll still be a prominent figure in the plot, but his personal journey is over. I had my problems with Ellie in the first game, too, but that's because she was presented as this moral compass, and didn't really start to feel like an interesting character till after Winter. Now with this sequel they can actually focus on Ellie just as the first game focused on Joel, and maybe we'll be able to see some of the less admirable sides of her personality.

 

[Casual Shinji]

My only concern if the gameplay of the last of us 2 is gonna get refined. Because as much I liked the first game, the gameplay was pretty meh.

If her being gay is a critical part of the plot then that's no big deal in my opinion. Naughty Dog games try to be the best in storytelling by video game standards. I just hope they remember how to make fun gameplay.

We're getting a dodge and a jump button now, but I don't think you should expect miracles.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I thought the gameplay set a new standard for third person action/adventure. I?m playing through the Remastered one now on Grounded difficulty and it?s a rush. The contextual movement, the deliberate and brutally detailed and melee, the on-the-fly crafting, the aiming ?feeling? human-like vs robotic laser precision, as in you?re not some dead eye master until you gain more experience, the sprinting, finding objects in the environment to use (although this should be more dynamic in the sequel), etc.

Anyways, this Gamesradar preview [https://www.gamesradar.com/the-last-of-us-part-2-review/] also has a few extra links at the bottom to more speculation on a variety of things.

I wonder how old Ellie was in the dance sequence. She did look a bit younger than in the gameplay. I also am wondering if the original trailer wasn?t even real at all, but a dream or premonition she had about killing them all. Maybe present day Joel is only in her head, and his death has something to do with Ellie?s newfound anger. It could be tied to the girl she was with though as well.

 

[stroopwafel]

Nothing to do with that Ellie's gay but that kiss definitely went on too long. I seriously don't like romance or sex(even worse) in games and that kiss was super realistic to the point you could see every subtle expression. In games like The Witcher or Mass Effect you could atleast skip the romance options but when someone's sexual orientation becomes such a focal point for the game's narrative it's starting to lose me. I also don't see the point of it other than trying to make a statement. If the story is indeed some kind of take on The Handmaid's Tale then it's even worse. It's also personal preference but I think characters are more interesting in the absence of others rather than being characterized by their relationship dynamics. It's also the one thing why I didn't enjoy The Last of Us very much. The gameplay was awesome and exploring that exceptionally crafted world never became a chore but Joel as well as Ellie were annoying and you combine them together and it becomes near unbearable. The sequel could be so awesome if it just focused on Ellie exploring that harsh and unforgiving world on her own now that there is no one to look out for her anymore. It could really be a lonely melancholy piece that fits the setting perfectly. They still could have inferred she his gay or elaborate on other parts of her character in more quite moments and it would be indirect and sensitive but by taking her relationship/crush and sexual orientation as a central theme it implicitly becomes a statement. Really, I couldn't care less if Ellie is gay or not but the scene betrays the predilection with sexual orientation, gender dynamics and social mores that is so omnipresent in society to the point that I loathe seeing it in fiction.

That Neil Druckman or whatever has his head way far up his own ass so yeah, I have no doubt the proclivity to align with the times played it's part. On top of that every character Naughty Dog creates is somehow annoying. Nate was also a tit. Can't imagine how already annoying characters will become when inflated with commentary that already gets on my nerves in real life.

 

[Silvanus]

They still could have inferred she his gay or elaborate on other parts of her character in more quite moments and it would be indirect and sensitive but by taking her relationship/crush and sexual orientation as a central theme it implicitly becomes a statement.

Ah, in exactly the same way it's considered a big statement when a straight relationship is a central theme.

Oh wait...

 

[stroopwafel]

They still could have inferred she his gay or elaborate on other parts of her character in more quite moments and it would be indirect and sensitive but by taking her relationship/crush and sexual orientation as a central theme it implicitly becomes a statement.

Ah, in exactly the same way it's considered a big statement when a straight relationship is a central theme.

Oh wait...

Nice way to conveniently quote me out of context. Like I said it only becomes a statement b/c (social) media discourse poisoned the waters. I also said I personally don't care if someone is gay or not and that I don't like romance or sex in games either way.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I thought the gameplay set a new standard for third person action/adventure. I?m playing through the Remastered one now on Grounded difficulty and it?s a rush. The contextual movement, the deliberate and brutally detailed and melee, the on-the-fly crafting, the aiming ?feeling? human-like vs robotic laser precision, as in you?re not some dead eye master until you gain more experience, the sprinting, finding objects in the environment to use (although this should be more dynamic in the sequel), etc.

I like the combat and surviving by the skin of your teeth type action, but it's a bit disappointing to see the only real advancement being the greater contextual flair. Especially in the wake of games like Horizon: Zero Dawn and God of War, which have a similar graphics heavy, cinematic presentation, but without sacrificing creative gameplay mechanics. Naughty Dog tends to waste its gameplay mechanics on the general default shoot and punch action gameplay.

I wonder how old Ellie was in the dance sequence. She did look a bit younger than in the gameplay. I also am wondering if the original trailer wasn?t even real at all, but a dream or premonition she had about killing them all. Maybe present day Joel is only in her head, and his death has something to do with Ellie?s newfound anger. It could be tied to the girl she was with though as well.

I think she's pretty much the same age during the dance and the gameplay, she just has her hair down a bit in the later. That original trailer was just made for the reveal of the sequel, I think. I doubt you're going to see anything from that sequence in the finished product. And Joel's not dead. It would be a pretty cheap ploy if he was. They're building up his reveal, and letting his absence simmer, because you know, he's Joel -- he's The Man.

 

[sXeth]

And Joel's not dead. It would be a pretty cheap ploy if he was. They're building up his reveal, and letting his absence simmer, because you know, he's Joel -- he's The Man.

Was Troy baker in the big voice actor strike? Timeline wise that might account for a reduced role.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

The only thing it'll add will be the obvious bigoted white male antagonist who thinks he can fix lesbianism with his dick, and then the inevitable death of the girlfriend will be different because its a girlfriend, not a boyfriend.
and that's about it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

And Joel's not dead. It would be a pretty cheap ploy if he was. They're building up his reveal, and letting his absence simmer, because you know, he's Joel -- he's The Man.

Was Troy baker in the big voice actor strike? Timeline wise that might account for a reduced role.

I think he was, but Joel was in the reveal trailer, Troy Baker was at the reveal panel at PSX '16, there was that duet with him and Ashley Johnson, I think at PSX '17, and Joel is again refered to as 'old man' in the latest trailer. That's too much of a presence for Joel to not play a big part in the sequel.