Is Half life/Deus Ex have better legacy than Mario/Zelda?

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Are you serious?

I could show pictures of Gordon Freeman and Mario to literally anyone. Can you guess which one people will recognize?

Hint; It'sa me!

Half-Life and Deus Ex have their claims to fame but if you think that their legacy is even close to that of Nintendo, you're deluding yourself. I know you have a weird obsessing hate with consoles but even you must realize how crazy that sounds...right?

If you wanted to argue quality you might have a shot but Mario alone blows out...well...EVERYTHING when it comes to the mark left on gaming history.

The problem with that argument is the format in which the characters are presented. Mario is constantly on-screen since it's a third-person view and actually has a voice. Freeman is portrayed as a mute from a first person perspective. Maybe there's an argument in and of itself somewhere in there. For example, I didn't know who Soap McTavish was until the second Modern Warfare and it was because I was playing as someone else looking at him.

Though if you give names, I'll bet at least a quarter will go "You mean Morgan Freeman?"

That all being said, Mario and Zelda have had the much larger impression on gaming. If you ask someone what a video game is, they will probably think of the Japanese aesthetic typical of their genres. Or they'll think of murderous mysogynists that breed around COD and Battlefield.

 

[tippy2k2]

I could show pictures of Gordon Freeman and Mario to literally anyone. Can you guess which one people will recognize?

Hint; It'sa me!

The problem with that argument is the format in which the characters are presented. Mario is constantly on-screen since it's a third-person view and actually has a voice. Freeman is portrayed as a mute from a first person perspective. Maybe there's an argument in and of itself somewhere in there. For example, I didn't know who Soap McTavish was until the second Modern Warfare and it was because I was playing as someone else looking at him.

Though if you give names, I'll bet at least a quarter will go "You mean Morgan Freeman?"

That all being said, Mario and Zelda have had the much larger impression on gaming. If you ask someone what a video game is, they will probably think of the Japanese aesthetic typical of their genres. Or they'll think of murderous mysogynists that breed around COD and Battlefield.

I suppose that's a fair argument (although I feel it's grasping at straws but I'll give it to you for the sake of argument) so let's change the exercise to make it more fair if that's unacceptable.

Grab screenshots of Super Mario Brothers and grab screenshots of Half-life. Show the pictures to random people and see which game gets recognized much more. I guarantee once again that Mario is taking that poll by a landslide. If you just poll hard-core gamers, you MIGHT get it to break even.

 

[Zontar]

In terms of the lasting legacy and knowledge of their exsistance, Mario/Zelda hands down.

In terms of mechanism, and the use of its style and themes by other games, Half-Life/Deus Ex win out.

 

[briankoontz]

Mario and Zelda represent the beginning of the NES - Super Mario Bros. was one of eighteen launch titles for the American release and the first Zelda game came just four months later.

It can't be overstated just how amazing a system the NES is - there was nothing like it at the time. Back then computers were expensive and difficult to play games on - the least expensive version of the NES was only $199 at launch. That's around $430 in today's dollars, but still very cheap compared to alternatives at the time. The Atari 2600 was garbage compared to the NES, and if Japanese sales figures say anything then Sega's system (the SG-1000) was crap comparatively as well.

Arcades were a big competitor, but their design philosophy was to eat quarters, so their gameplay was brutally difficult and the game design was very simple, as befitted a game often lasting just a few minutes.

Most gamers had never before experienced anything even remotely similar to Super Mario Bros. or The Legend of Zelda. So they transformed these gamers' imaginations and expectations, showing them that what they never thought possible was actually a reality.

Half Life and Deus Ex are both amazing games, and Deus Ex in my opinion is the best game ever made. But they were made in a much more mature and experienced gaming environment - it's the difference between Babe Ruth and Barry Bonds (setting aside the steroids). Babe Ruth was the first mega-slugger and transformed the game - Barry Bonds is just another mega-slugger.

What gamers respond to is how something affects *them*. Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda had a far greater effect on gamers than Half-Life and Deus Ex.

The only kind of game that can rival SMB and Zelda is one that transforms (in a good way) the very meaning of playing a game. Maybe the Oculus Rift in conjunction with brilliant game design can do that, but the odds don't favor it.

 

[Hawki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLKhxjfG03A

Y'know, it doesn't fill a thread with much authority when it can't even get the title right (should be "Do Half-Life/Deus Ex have a better legacy than Mario/Zelda?") or when the question is so loaded (define "better") or when your line of thought is "people who like what I don't like aren't REAL gamers" (I recommend reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman to grasp the fallacy there) or when "gamer" is being used at all (a term that I personally dislike, but that's my problem).

But to answer the question...no. Mario is still going today, and is the staple game of the platform genre. The 'Legend of Zelda' is still going strong, and is arguably the staple game of the action-adventure genre. As others have pointed out, show your average everyday person a picture of Mario (or heck, even Link) and they'll probably know who they are.

Half-Life on the other hand...well, firstly, it makes the comparison even more redundant because Half-Life is an FPS, a separate genre entirely, and I might as well compare it to, say, 'Final Fantasy' as readily as the above games. And yes, I'd argue that 'Half-Life' does have a legacy. It raised the bar (no pun intended) for storytelling in FPS, and gave birth to 'Counter-Strike', but right now, I'd have to say that the game's most defining legacy is the "Half-Life 3 confirmed!" joke. However, at the end of the day, I can't say HL has the same legacy as the other games have had. I've never seen the game held up as a benchmark of its genre.

As for 'Deus Ex'...never played it (insert gasps of shock here). Maybe it's good (probably is), maybe it isn't, I can't say. If it has a legacy, it's probably in itself (as in, people may cite it as the best game ever). But again, it's a redundant comparison. Once again you're comparing an FPS/RPG hybrid to completely separate genres. But speaking personally, Mario and Zelda have had far more of an impact on me. Half-Life 2 and its episodes (haven't played HL1) were solid, but I never found myself blown out of the water by them, the same way that, say, 'Super Mario 64' or 'Ocarina of Time' did.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I'm going to say that Mario and Zelda have a much better legacy than Half-Life and Deus Ex. Nintendo's characters are recognized world-wide, whether you're a gamer or not. They have branched out into other forms of entertainment. They are pop icons and superstars, not just among gamers, but among people in general. Most people's definition of 'better' will say that they win.

Half-Life and Deus Ex have bot have a legacy, but it is no where near the level of Mario and Zelda, not even among gamers.

 

[Vivi22]

Heck, I still suspect people to be making Half-Life 3 jokes within the next 20 years because it's taken so long that it's hit Duke Nukem Forever status in that it can't possibly live up to the hype no matter what.

I'll never understand the statement that Duke Nukem Forever could never have lived up to expectations. Largely because while the original Duke Nukem 3D was interesting and fun in it's way, it wasn't a spectacular classic that people will talk about for decades because it was so far ahead of it's time. And every Duke Nukem game released after it sucked completely. And if anyone was honestly expecting something good out of that game they were delusional. It spent a decade in development hell, was restarted constantly, and was being made by a company that had done nothing in that time (literally since they hadn't made a game since 1997) and weren't known for being exceptional developers. And let's not even get onto the subject of it being pawned off onto Gearbox to get out the door in under a year or whatever it was.

Even if HL3 has or will reach Duke Nukem levels of infamy for taking really long to be released, it'll never be on the level of Duke Nukem since any game by Valve will likely be fun when it's released. And Duke Nukem was never a situation where it couldn't live up to the hype because no sane human being expected it to be any good in the first place. In fact, I'd say it absolutely lived up to every reasonable expectation I had for it.

 

[Rozalia1]

Here we go again, your naked swipes are amusing at the very least.

Mario and Zelda are shall we say like Hulk Hogan, Half-Life and Dues Ex are more like AJ Styles. Well known among a certain audience, but relatively unknown among the rest.
Proclaiming them as more important is amusing at best. It'd be like if I said Indie star #354 was bigger than Cena or something, complete hogwash.

LOL comparing video games to fake wwf wrestling which apeal to audience mostly consist of little kids and girls.

and yes. best type of games are not utterly popular. but obsecure game to respected fanbase. like Stalker was best game of last gen but COD4 or uncharted was more popular doesnot mean better quality.

24% under 18
23% between 18-34
23% between 35-49
30% above 50

Statistics are as ever not on your side, and that is just WWE (hitting the fact you said WWF and thus proving you don't even know the simplest facts of the matter would be too easy and quick for me). Its sad when a gamer makes such a statement as video games and Pro Wrestling have a lot in common. By mocking one, you indirectly confirm the mocking of the other by those who mock it.
Good job putting down video games as objects just for kids, I'm sure everyone is just thrilled to hear that.
Oh and one of the many fun things I've learned in my life is that you can always put things in a wrestling perspective.

If the game is obscure than its legacy is lesser. How do you go about asking a question when you do not understand the question yourself? Quality is irrelevant to the question.
Also if we go by your specifications than Atelier Meruru being more niche is clearly the better game, funny how your bizzaro logic works against you like that huh.

 

[Hawki]

but Half life was the reason how gaming experience should be. same as deus ex.

both Half life 1 and OOT was release in 1998. and compare both of them. HL1 looks like 10 years leap over it.

Discuss

Missed this bit, as I was laughing too much at the title. Again, it's a fallacy, to declare that gaming should be any one thing, especially from different genres. I mean, look at the way both games start - HL1 in the first person with the cart ride, OoT with a ride across Hyrule Field. One from a FPS, another from a third person adventure. Both encapsulate their games from the outset, but those games are two different things.

And as far as looks go, OoT looks much better than HL1 to me, heck, even HL2. HL2 undoubtedly has better graphics, but I prefer the aesthetic of OoT much more. And to bring up the above comparison, the OoT intro is much more...well, 'magical' (yeah, laugh it up) to me than HL1 or 2. As creepy as the G-Man is, it can't compare to the ambience of OoT.

But all IMO of course.

 

[JohnZ117]

Which has the better legacy? Both the Mario Series and most of the Zelda series are meant as kid-friendly. Which means, not only is it more accessible to audiences, it also means more have grown up playing said games, and were influenced by them, the developers of Half-Life and Deus Ex included.

Another argument could be made that those two all but(if not actually) started the platforming and open-world genres. Without Mario, we would not have Rayman or Assassin's Creed(assuming platforming led to parkour games). And without Zelda, we may not have Skyrim or GTA whI(I(I)cheVer.

Also, if it weren't for Nintendo, Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, and Metroid, then the Crash could have ended with video games becoming just another bygone fad

 

[Erttheking]

The bright colorful games that defined my childhood or the boring as sin games where you need to stop every three seconds to pile some boxes up on each other while fighting off giant bugs to figure out where the Hell I'm going?

Which one do you think I'm going to remember in five years? I'll remember Super Mario RPG, my favorite childhood game and still one of my favorite games. Nothing quite like Role Playing Games made in Japan.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

I suppose that's a fair argument (although I feel it's grasping at straws but I'll give it to you for the sake of argument)

I...what?

Grab screenshots of Super Mario Brothers and grab screenshots of Half-life. Show the pictures to random people and see which game gets recognized much more. I guarantee once again that Mario is taking that poll by a landslide. If you just poll hard-core gamers, you MIGHT get it to break even.

I agree. My point was comparing the characters between the games was unfair because they don't enjoy the same degree of focus. In pictures of Freeman himself if someone were to remove the symbol from his armour, I wouldn't have a hope of knowing who he was. Compare to even Master Chief who has a distinct appearance amongst video game characters.

It would be more use to compare screenshots and this is where legacy can probably best be judged. Anyone can easily state a Nintendo game, but Half Life and Deus Ex look like just another brown/grey shooter.

EDIT: Then again, considering how ubiquitous brown/grey shooters are, would this make those two games very influential?

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Well, I've never actually played any games from either of these franchises, though I will easily say, even as someone who plays only on a PC, that Mario and Zelda have a much higher legacy. They're both household names that even people who don't play games would probably recognise. Half Life and Deus Ex, while popular among passionate video game fans, is not even near that level of recognition and acclaim. So I'd say the answer to this is all obvious.

Then you have the fact that Half Life got what, two games and the Wintersun-effect is happening to the third and Deus Ex has had a couple of really, really bad installments apparently. On the flipside, Mario and Zelda are still having games pumped out that, I think, are getting okay critical reaction. So yeah.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Mario and Zelda are a lot more robust than Deus Ex or, Half-Life. Deus Ex itself it more robust than a single Mario or Zelda title but all of the games under the Deus Ex banner are similar in that they're all RPG/Stealth-Shooter things. Half-Life is nothing but first-person shooters though with great story telling and physics engines. Mario on the other hand has stared in platformers, RPGs, racers, fighting games and sports titles. Splatoon could have been a Mario or, Nintendo All-Star game which would have added 3rd person shooting but even without that, Mario has a far more robust legacy. Zelda isn't as robust since most of those games are adventure games with RPG elements (and sometimes stealth elements). Characters from Zelda have been in fighting games (like Smash and Soul Caliber) and quite soon, Link will have been in an official racing game. Mario and Link have had been in bad games too which may not seem like a point in their favor but it shows that they've been through, and gotten over, various hurdles in their time on store shelves. I don't think anyone would say there's a bad Half-Life game per-say but I would argue that Episodes 1 and 2 are bad in that they aren't a proper sequel to the second game and indeed, it doesn't even look like there's going to be a third episode even though the way the second ended, we could really use one. As for Deus Ex...well, everybody knows about Invisible Wars but even Human Revolution has people who absolutely hate it and everything it stands for.

 

[EyeReaper]

Considering the only legacy Half-Life seems to have anymore is jokes on Half Life 3...

I don't think there is any contest here. The Nintendo Franchises have been running for years. MArio is a cultural superstar and an international icon. Meanwhile I know people who consider themselves "Hardcore" gamers who have no idea who JC Denton is.

I don't think the comparison is in anyway fair. Half-Life had two games, Deus Ex had three and a mobile game. Really the only PC game with any claim to a legacy is the Elder Scrolls. And even then I bet more people know of Mario and Luigi than Fus Ro Dahs or Dovahkins.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Here we go again, your naked swipes are amusing at the very least.

Mario and Zelda are shall we say like Hulk Hogan, Half-Life and Dues Ex are more like AJ Styles. Well known among a certain audience, but relatively unknown among the rest.
Proclaiming them as more important is amusing at best. It'd be like if I said Indie star #354 was bigger than Cena or something, complete hogwash.

LOL comparing video games to fake wwf wrestling which apeal to audience mostly consist of little kids and girls.

and yes. best type of games are not utterly popular. but obsecure game to respected fanbase. like Stalker was best game of last gen but COD4 or uncharted was more popular doesnot mean better quality.

You've never really seen who shows up to wrestling events my friend, or are completely face/gender/age blind. Like video games, everything has a diverse crowd of people. If you don't enjoy wrestling, thats ok. But putting someone down for liking it makes me think you've got a complex somewhere and it really shows in how you post towards others. You don't come off as smart, or cool. Just another elitist who condescends to people who don't agree with them, and a lot of folks will dismiss your opinions or arguments outright because of that attitude. Just sayin...
Legacy as put forth before doesn't mean complexity, or versatility or depth (all three are not also synonymous with "quality"), it means that it is remembered across a broad gap of people. People know who Hulk Hogan is whether they like wrestling or not. People know Nintendo as a brand because of Mario and Legend of Zelda and some folks think all games are on Nintendo.
You'll find a large percentage of people put at least one Nintendo game (Mario, Metroid or Zelda) on their top 10 all time favorite lists than people who don't. Also the legacy of Nintendo's brand faces happens to span a larger timeline than Deus Ex or Half-Life. By the time Half-Life was released, there were already multiple titles with Mario and Zelda at the helm, even before OOT.
Platform matters not.
Honestly though, Nintendo's giants legacy won't be outshined by Deus Ex or Half-Life. Those games are important in the overall narrative of gaming, but they didn't cement gaming as a hobby like Nintendo did largely thanks to Mario and Zelda. Sorry, thats a magnitude of impact that really can't be reproduced (unless somehow HL3 or a new Deus Ex like saves gaming from a major crash or like cures fucking cancer).

 

[IceForce]

but Half life was the reason how gaming experience should be.

So you're saying that a boring linear corridor shooter, with a mute protagonist, an extremely limited color palette, and no actual 'gameplay' aside from 'point and click', is how a "gaming experience should be"?

Are you serious?

Mario is popular among non gamers

Wait, you're saying that Mario is only popular among people who don't play games at all?

I'm going to need a citation for this one.

well half life and Deus Ex were hardcore PC games unlike mario/zelda that are way to colorful and childish. well atleast they are not JRPGs.

Please stop using the word "hardcore". It's completely meaningless, especially when you use it.
And you still haven't explained why "colorful and childish" is a bad thing. After all, isn't 'escapism' the purpose of video games?

Also, please stop bringing JRPGs into discussions where they're not relevant. It's tiresome.

 

[TheGamerElite33]

So you're saying that a boring linear corridor shooter, with a mute protagonist, an extremely limited color palette, and no actual 'gameplay' aside from 'point and click', is how a "gaming experience should be"?

Are you serious?

Linear scripted? Half life has plent of exploration, puzzle solving and lets not forget that Half life has greatest Level design and pacing in history. its an intelligent game.

 

[DrOswald]

Are you serious?

I could show pictures of Gordon Freeman and Mario to literally anyone. Can you guess which one people will recognize?

Hint; It'sa me!

.

anyone who? hardcore PC gamer? or casual gamers or non gamers?

Mario is popular among non gamers and majority of things that are popular are crap in my book. if you ask any hardcore PC gamer. they will say Half life is better than Mario. while not denying mario is not good because it is.

Mario is better than Half Life. You have 1 hardcore gamer that flat out disagrees with you.

In fact, I will go further. I can think of half a dozen Mario games that are each individually better than both Half Life and Half Life 2 put together.