Is Hollywood a purveyor of garbage?

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Twinrehz

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Here's a thing that's been gnawing on me for quite a while: Hollywood makes so much garbage, and sub-par actors are continuing to appear in movies giving of a seemingly bad performance.

At least that's how it appears to me. For example, Nicholas Cage. Now, he's not exactly a BAD actor. I'd say he's a very situational actor, that requires rather particular roles, but in many movies his acting just seems like pure shit.

Let's mention J.J Abrahms too, because that's a horse we never get tired of beating. Mainly, why it seems that he gets a free ride, being a very popular director among the big-wigs of Hollywood, and asked to ruin a lot of movies with potential.

Maybe I'm just jumping the bandwagon here, let's look at it from a broader perspective. Of the movies that I know about from the last years, there's very few of them that have made me want to actually see them, to shell out my hard-earned cash to be granted the privilege of being entertained by what is deemed the greatest people of the movie industry.

Only, to me they don't seem that great. For one thing, it's nothing short of amazing what the people behind the Scary Movie-franchise is STILL getting away with. The last movie I saw from those guys was Disaster Movie. The ONE thing that movie had going for it was that the name was very accurate. It was an absolute disaster, relying mainly on fart- and burp-jokes, passing lousy parodies as comedy, and being generally insulting. I wasn't even able to watch all of it, because it was just too bad, I didn't want to waste any more of my life to this blatant insult of a movie. The studio that shat it out should be ashamed! Here they are cranking out one dross movie after another, while I'm sure people with WAY more interesting ideas are being rejected because they haven't established a name for themselves yet, or have been praised by Spielberg or whatever.

I am aware that movies fall under the "purely subjective"-category, but I feel that most movies are adequate, some might be amusing there and then, but nothing more besides that. Not thought-provoking, no sense of "what the hell did I watch?" (in a good way), just bland entertainment, whizz-bang-whoosh, done deal. It's one of the reasons I like the movies of Kubrick (yeah I went there), because at least there seems to be something more behind it all, either some grand scheme, a protest, or in the case with Barry Lyndon, just seeing what he can get away with (because holy hell that movie is boring!).

Sometimes of course I also watch movies simply because I'm bored, not because I want to be challenged with some deeper thought, but there is so much of that, and so very few of movies that give food to thought. Am I just blind to the gems that come out, or is there really nothing interesting being pushed out by any major movie publisher any more?
 

jademunky

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Twinrehz said:
At least that's how it appears to me. For example, Nicholas Cage. Now, he's not exactly a BAD actor. I'd say he's a very situational actor, that requires rather particular roles, but in many movies his acting just seems like pure shit.
Clearly someone here has not seen the Wicker Man remake. Pure bear-costumed gold I say!
 

Axolotl

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While Hollywood is indeed a system based on the manufacture and sale of processed shit you are completely wrong about Nicolas Cage, he is a god amoungst men and a glorious king of the acting profession.

Your incorrectness on this front is unforgivable please report to your near brainwashing centre for reeducation (Or just watch Adaptation and Raising Arizona).
 

Johnny Novgorod

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By and large, yes, production is mostly garbage. But you don't have to consume it either, in this day and age of digital distribution you can easily access a wide array of older, better movies from the comfort of your home. Or check out a film festival. Not saying it's all gold but at least it's different. It's a shame that most good festival movies don't really have a way of breaking from that circuit.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Twinrehz said:
At least that's how it appears to me. For example, Nicholas Cage. Now, he's not exactly a BAD actor. I'd say he's a very situational actor, that requires rather particular roles, but in many movies his acting just seems like pure shit.
Sir, are you trying to tell me that this man is not the greatest actor of our generation?


You should be ashamed of yourself.

No seriously, go watch Face/Off, it's fantastic.
 

Vault101

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I think youre overstating it a little

oh yeah theres no doubt Hollywood is all about selling whats nice, consumable and safe...like junk food

somtimes though good things come of it...people liked Gauridans I hear and it beat out TMNT

you just take you can I'll..I'll say the output of hollywood is still better than games

Dirty Hipsters said:
Sir, are you trying to tell me that this man is not the greatest actor of our generation?

[spoiler/][/spoiler]
.
oh....[i/]oh lord[/i]

AH SEE THE THE LIGHT....AH ACCEPT CAGE AS MY LORD AND SAVIOUR I see angels in my visions!
 

Qwurty2.0

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Vault101 said:
I think youre overstating it a little

oh yeah theres no doubt Hollywood is all about selling whats nice, consumable and safe...like junk food

somtimes though good things come of it...people liked Gauridans I hear and it beat out TMNT

you just take you can I'll..I'll say the output of hollywood is still better than games

Dirty Hipsters said:
Sir, are you trying to tell me that this man is not the greatest actor of our generation?

[spoiler/][/spoiler]
.
oh....[i/]oh lord[/i]

AH SEE THE THE LIGHT....AH ACCEPT CAGE AS MY LORD AND SAVIOUR I see angels in my visions!
ACCEPT CAGE INTO YOUR HEART AND SAVE YOUR SOUL.

CAGE BE WITH YOU!
 

zen5887

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I don't think it's that big a secret that the mainstream side of a media isn't always the "best" (totally subjective I know, but I'm going off what you're talking about and we all know what you're talking about). It's the same with the music industry, gaming, news, book publishing probably, etc.

There are exception to this idea and we should be celebrating these. Focus on the good stuff that Hollywood produces and ignore the shit. It's also a great chance to jump onto the indie scene. Sick of the same crud that comes out from the mainstream channels? Go see a band, go to a film festival, listen to local radio. If you want movies that make you think, look for them because they are definitely out there.
 

BreakfastMan

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Dirty Hipsters said:
Twinrehz said:
At least that's how it appears to me. For example, Nicholas Cage. Now, he's not exactly a BAD actor. I'd say he's a very situational actor, that requires rather particular roles, but in many movies his acting just seems like pure shit.
Sir, are you trying to tell me that this man is not the greatest actor of our generation?


You should be ashamed of yourself.

No seriously, go watch Face/Off, it's fantastic.
Love that scene. Love the whole movie, really, it is fantastic. XD

But seriously though, Cage is actually a really good actor when he doesn't star in schlock. Some of his great performances, like Adaptation tends to get overlooked because he stars in so much schlock, which is really kind of sad.
 

Fox12

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Television is garbage. Film is intellectually bankrupt. I've abandoned both.

I can only watch Hollywood reboot the same franchise so many times. The same garbage gets peddled out year after year, with few if any variations. The only films I can watch are comedies, and only with friends. Honestly, I just can't stomach the medium anymore. It had potential, but there's not much there anymore. There are a few older films and foreign films that are okay, but that's about it. It's sinking mammoth of onoriginality, where a handful of elites circle jerk each other, and nothing ever changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BGEf6-31cE
 

TakerFoxx

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Sturgeon's Law. Ninety percent of everything is crap: Hollywood, television, books, games, etc. That's how it's always been. Movies are just the most visible.
 

Signa

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I think "red title movies" are far more of a problem than the Cage example


On the whole, I do agree. Hollywood is almost completely shit now. Guardians was the first movie I've seen in years that I've enjoyed as much as I did, and even so, there were flaws that bothered me.
 

likalaruku

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I rarely go to the theaters once a year. The last time I went twice, I got free tickets & both movies were terrible. I haven't been to a theater more than twice since 2003. I genuinely prefer super low budget indie stuff; it has more love & sincerity put into it, & if it's not good it will hopefully be so bad it's hilarious.

TakerFoxx said:
Sturgeon's Law. Ninety percent of everything is crap: Hollywood, television, books, games, etc. That's how it's always been. Movies are just the most visible.
I thought STURGEON'S Law was that 90% of everything is CARP. F**k, this is making me hungry....
 

Twinrehz

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Ok, my Cage-example was perhaps a bad one. I honestly haven't seen that many movies with Cage (I've seen The Rock, and some of National Treasure, that's about all I remember having seen with him).

Signa said:
I think "red title movies" are far more of a problem than the Cage example


On the whole, I do agree. Hollywood is almost completely shit now. Guardians was the first movie I've seen in years that I've enjoyed as much as I did, and even so, there were flaws that bothered me.
Oh wow, that is actually a thing. Maybe Hollywood is not so stupid after all, they subliminally label stuff that might be junk.

zen5887 said:
There are exception to this idea and we should be celebrating these. Focus on the good stuff that Hollywood produces and ignore the shit. It's also a great chance to jump onto the indie scene. Sick of the same crud that comes out from the mainstream channels? Go see a band, go to a film festival, listen to local radio. If you want movies that make you think, look for them because they are definitely out there.
The problem that I face is that noting seems good. I will admit I don't watch that many movies, and I often don't give movies a fighting chance. I could be heavily biased because of the two most available film channels in this country either show old movies, bad movies, or old bad movies. One of them is the kind of channel that if they get their hands on a Godzilla (1998) license, they will air that 2-3 times a day, for about a month. It was OK the first time I saw it (Matthew Broderick seemed a bit off-cast, but hey), it doesn't mean I want to watch it again.

I very seldom watch movies on TV any more, because online services are more convenient, they're not plagued with frequent commercial breaks, and I can watch it when it suits me.

I also tend to not stay very up to date on movies, because I just don't know where to look for news. Any suggestions?

On to a different matter: why do they keep rebooting franchises all the time? And why does it seem like every single attempt is a miserable failure?
 

Thaluikhain

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Signa said:
I think "red title movies" are far more of a problem than the Cage example


On the whole, I do agree. Hollywood is almost completely shit now. Guardians was the first movie I've seen in years that I've enjoyed as much as I did, and even so, there were flaws that bothered me.
Huh...never noticed that before.

But, yeah, always been a lot of rubbish, but now everything has to be a bad reboot or something.

OTOH, if they made a decent movie, would anyone watch it?
 

smithy_2045

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See, where you're going wrong is looking for intellectual stimulation from Hollywood. You don't go to McDonald's looking for high quality food, you go there for something cheap and reliable.
 

BaronVH

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The food analogy is good. Sometimes I want a rare filet paired with very nice wine, sometimes I want a nice healthy salad, but sometimes a huge piece of apple pie and homemade ice cream. The steak would be Lawrence of Arabia, Saving Private Ryan. The salad would be Driving Ms. Daisy, Casablanca. Light and good for you. The apple pie is Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars. You know it is not great for you, but, damn, it tastes real good. Occasionally the snicker bar. South Park and Borat. You know it is bad, but it is still great. I refuse to eat at Taco Bell or McDonalds. There will always be bad movies that tons of people rush out to see. Many people go to the theater and have no idea what they are going to watch when they get there. They also buy movies at Wal-Mart that they haven't seen if the cover is cool. Hollywood is a business. That will always happen, so there will always be those movies.
 

Twinrehz

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BaronVH said:
The food analogy is good. Sometimes I want a rare filet paired with very nice wine, sometimes I want a nice healthy salad, but sometimes a huge piece of apple pie and homemade ice cream. The steak would be Lawrence of Arabia, Saving Private Ryan. The salad would be Driving Ms. Daisy, Casablanca. Light and good for you. The apple pie is Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars. You know it is not great for you, but, damn, it tastes real good. Occasionally the snicker bar. South Park and Borat. You know it is bad, but it is still great. I refuse to eat at Taco Bell or McDonalds. There will always be bad movies that tons of people rush out to see. Many people go to the theater and have no idea what they are going to watch when they get there. They also buy movies at Wal-Mart that they haven't seen if the cover is cool. Hollywood is a business. That will always happen, so there will always be those movies.
Yeah, but that's part of my point. It doesn't have to be mass produced garbage. I don't mind mass produced, I do mind mindless junk made just because. There could be at least some level of quality control?

To draw the analogy further: yes, sometimes you want something different. Different is often good. But drowning the movie in special effect sauce, guaranteed to sell at the cinema with a giant advertising campaign, forgotten within a year, is that really something to work for? It doesn't have to be a heavily philosophical movie, or rattle the mind with some deeper meaning. Just give it SOME substance.

Maybe I'm missing my own point, maybe there can't be both substance and light entertainment?

As an example (maybe it's a bad one, I don't know, I quite liked the movie), let's take the movie Dredd. Now, it's not very deep in meaning, it's not very heavy entertainment, but it's fun, and I think it's worth watching again, because it's cool, and the character is not bog standard hollywood, at least not from my perspective.
 

BaronVH

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Twinrehz said:
BaronVH said:
The food analogy is good. Sometimes I want a rare filet paired with very nice wine, sometimes I want a nice healthy salad, but sometimes a huge piece of apple pie and homemade ice cream. The steak would be Lawrence of Arabia, Saving Private Ryan. The salad would be Driving Ms. Daisy, Casablanca. Light and good for you. The apple pie is Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars. You know it is not great for you, but, damn, it tastes real good. Occasionally the snicker bar. South Park and Borat. You know it is bad, but it is still great. I refuse to eat at Taco Bell or McDonalds. There will always be bad movies that tons of people rush out to see. Many people go to the theater and have no idea what they are going to watch when they get there. They also buy movies at Wal-Mart that they haven't seen if the cover is cool. Hollywood is a business. That will always happen, so there will always be those movies.
Yeah, but that's part of my point. It doesn't have to be mass produced garbage. I don't mind mass produced, I do mind mindless junk made just because. There could be at least some level of quality control?

To draw the analogy further: yes, sometimes you want something different. Different is often good. But drowning the movie in special effect sauce, guaranteed to sell at the cinema with a giant advertising campaign, forgotten within a year, is that really something to work for? It doesn't have to be a heavily philosophical movie, or rattle the mind with some deeper meaning. Just give it SOME substance.

Maybe I'm missing my own point, maybe there can't be both substance and light entertainment?

As an example (maybe it's a bad one, I don't know, I quite liked the movie), let's take the movie Dredd. Now, it's not very deep in meaning, it's not very heavy entertainment, but it's fun, and I think it's worth watching again, because it's cool, and the character is not bog standard hollywood, at least not from my perspective.
I certainly see your point. Unfortunately, the cheap, mass market trash movies make money. Enough to bankroll more mentally substantial fare. The problem is with business decisions based only on the bottom line. Die Hard comes out. Makes much more than expected. Then everything is sold or approved based on that. Die Hard on a boat. Die Hard on a plane. Die Hard on a bus. I imagine there will be some executive thinking if they can shoe horn in a talking rabbit, squirrel, or some other animal after Guardians of the Galaxy. It is not all gloom and doom, however. There are still incredibly creative projects still out there. Sometimes the good ones are advertised extremely poorly. Take the Iron Giant for example. Most of the time the crap is advertised very well and the public bites.
 

Twinrehz

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BaronVH said:
I certainly see your point. Unfortunately, the cheap, mass market trash movies make money. Enough to bankroll more mentally substantial fare. The problem is with business decisions based only on the bottom line. Die Hard comes out. Makes much more than expected. Then everything is sold or approved based on that. Die Hard on a boat. Die Hard on a plane. Die Hard on a bus. I imagine there will be some executive thinking if they can shoe horn in a talking rabbit, squirrel, or some other animal after Guardians of the Galaxy. It is not all gloom and doom, however. There are still incredibly creative projects still out there. Sometimes the good ones are advertised extremely poorly. Take the Iron Giant for example. Most of the time the crap is advertised very well and the public bites.
Well, reflecting on it on a single movie-based approach, Die hard itself isn't necessarily bad either. It's kinda fun, although hugely predictable, as is every 80's and 90's based american action movie. It does fall inside of my personal spectrum of acceptable movie, but only just.

But when I look at them all from a broad perspective, all the really bad examples - romantic comedies, shallow chick-flicks, total hackjobs and by the book bland action stories that totally rips off Beverly Hills Cop - sticks out like rusty cannons on a sunken ship. Many of them are the Red Title Movies, mentioned earlier, and I have to think really hard to think of any good movies. I can't specifically mention any terribly bad movies either, except for the Scary Movie-franchise and their spin-offs.

I suppose I find the same problem here that I find with TV, it's all marketed towards the lowest common denominator, to the point that Honey-Boo-Boo (or whatever the f*ck that stupid kid's name is) ends up getting more screen time than world war 2 - no small feat, mind you - making most of the aired programs a pain to watch, and me very much not interested in paying for a bunch of channels I won't be watching anyway, in the hope that there's something valuable among all this sewage. I guess the danger is that good TV-shows will disappear in favour of the more marketable junk.

I got a lot of names here and in another thread on movies that I think I should see, so I have that to look forward to.