Is it discrimination to treat Handicapped people better than the rest of us?

[Vault101]

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

No. Discrimination is treating two sets of people unequally based on a characteristic they possess. Handicapped parking spaces are there because handicapped people find it much harder to move than their more able peers.

Clearly you haven't seen too many folks in wheelchairs - they move bloody better than I do half the time, and a damn sight faster from point A to B.

They can usually also benchpress twice their own mass, but that's another story.

ohhh sure, you know as long as they dont come across any stairs or narrow doorways, or drops more than a few feet..or really rough surfaces, or snow covering the ground or soft grass,also it probably affects where you can live, what job you can do, how people generally treat you

thing is by say "wheelchair people shouldnt get special treatment" your essentially saying "we shouldn't have to bother with ramps or even THINK about wheelchair people when we design buildings"

 

[Esotera]

A question: Is ADD/ADHD a learning disability?

As long as you recognise that not all handicapped people in wheelchairs. The anecdote was just illustrating that point, not making it; I know anecdotes don't work as evidence.

No, I don't think it is. But that doesn't really change my original point.

You think a condition, cited in many medical journals as being positively influenced through cognitive therapy and medication therapy, where sufferers frequently underperform educationally due to having specific needs that a conventional classroom can't meet, is not a learning disability? A condition where sufferers are typically emotionally immature for their age, have difficulty communicating or may communicate in an inappropriate manner, even when coached, is not a disability of some description? Are you sure?

No, anything that is a psychiatric disorder is inherently flawed in its diagnostic criteria; there is not enough emphasis on objective measures.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Adhd#Evolutionary_theories

This hypothesis seems most attractive to me. Can a condition really be called a disability when it's just disadvantageous in the standard social environment? That would make me disabled if I went to live with a Maori tribe or something similar.

 

[Vykrel]

depends what you mean... if you mean people going out of their way to help handicapped people, then no. that is expected of a person

i find it odd though, that handicapped people are allowed to cut in line for theme park rides. it just doesnt make any sense to me.

Ha! My little brother once asked that very question in Bobbejaanland, Belgium, where he was moved to the front of the lines in every atraction. Their answer? "It's policy." So they don't know it either.
But in many atractions, it was somewhat justified because he had to get in via the back or through a different route because of his arch-nemesis, the stairs, so he couldn't stand in line even if he wanted to... because of the standing.
Oh I am terrible today.

obviously rides that require you to first wait on stairs should allow physically handicapped people through, but where im from (Florida, theme park central) the majority of lines for rides are on flat ground... with the exception of waterpark rides, but i dont think handicapped people are allowed on water slides anyway

 

[sinterklaas]

As I see it, catering to the special needs of handicapped people (the parking spaces) is not discrimination.

Giving a handicapped person an advantage in any real competition (job interviews, contests, sports etc) is discrimination.

First post, best answer.

 

[Treblaine]

If my Legs didn't work i would want special fucken treatment!

Why? Sure, it sucks, but no more so than being born a ginger, or in the ghetto. Why should you receive special treatment because of a twist of fate?

Really, ginger people somehow have no means of locomotion? No way to go to work? To go shopping? To go to school and get an education? they are forced to crawl everywhere and ultimately cut off from integrating with society? Because that's the situation if you can't use your legs to walk either due to amputation, paralysis or simply they are too badly damaged from an injury.

We do the tiny extra effort to accommodate for those in wheelchairs because we aren't just a bunch of savage animals! We are part of a society who help each other for the greater good, because even if they can't use their legs they still have their hands.

Hell, you saying they should have kicked out Steven Hawking from University?

Because you can't teach a class on advanced theoretical astrophysics unless you have fully functioning quadriceps[/sarcasm]

Why do we put stairs outside buildings? Why not a sheer brick wall and tell people to find a grappling hook to get up to higher levels. Well because a lot of people aren't going to find a rope and be able to pull themselves up. So stairs are put there. But what if you have something wheeled? It may be yourself in a wheelchair, or it may be a trolley full of equipment, either way an elevator or ramp would be a pretty important thing to include.

You know what I think your problem is: you don't like the idea that extra money would be spent on someone who will ultimately end up a competitor to you in education, employment and partnership. And that's just selfishness on our part.

Because your school didn't put steps up to the entrance JUST FOR YOU, they put them there for everyone who's capable of getting the grades. That's why they put a ramp along side those steps.

 

[Indeterminacy]

No, anything that is a psychiatric disorder is inherently flawed in its diagnostic criteria; there is not enough emphasis on objective measures.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Adhd#Evolutionary_theories

This hypothesis seems most attractive to me. Can a condition really be called a disability when it's just disadvantageous in the standard social environment? That would make me disabled if I went to live with a Maori tribe or something similar.

I don't think it's much of a problem to accept the consequent of that implication. Yes, you would be disabled, despite being perfectly healthy. Similarly, someone whose leg has been severed can still be perfectly healthy too.

Whether psychiatric diagnosis is indicative of physiological malfunction is a live debate, and one that academic psychology takes very seriously. But that's not obviously relevant to the question of whether someone is disabled or can be granted social support.

 

[tharglet]

Depends what it is. I think it's fair that handicapped people get spaces nearer the store/restaurant, if they have trouble walking. For me, it's no big difference if I park next to the store or the other side of the car park, but to some people it makes a massive difference. (If a car park is sufficiently busy I'll park in the far corner anyway because it's quicker than surfing around to find a near space).

Whether you lol or not about someone on TV, I don't think it matters at all. Don't expect your company to appreciate it though

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

Not really. If someone clearly has it harder in life than the average person, they should be treated with as much courtesy and respect as possible. However, when it comes to treating Negroes (this isn't intended as an discriminatory term, by the way) with such undeserved respect respect, or "reverse racism", I do get quite annoyed.

Edit: Reading over the OP's post again, I just realised he's a terrible person.

 

[winter2]

I believe the proper term for that is 'reverse-discrimination' and it applies to all minorities not just the physical and/or mentally handicapped. Also it is just as stupid and harmful to society as regular discrimination.

I am not so sure about that. Discrimination is discrimination, period.

 

[Sixcess]

Yes it is discrimination.

Here's the problem. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to ask this question because in an ideal world every whiny little ***** with a doctor's letter wouldn't be wailing "waah, give me special treatment because I is disabled!"

But it's not an ideal world, and my view of this has long since been tainted beyond redemption by having to deal with far too many people who will use any officially diagnosed disability, no matter how minor, to get preferential treatment.

 

[The Floating Nose]

Shhhh Shhh you should stop saying the truth because he might report you because....you know it's just his opinion.

I really hate these kind of topic in general (if i do this is it that bad, if i do that is it that bad). You are a jerk, you are acting like a jerk and thew reason why make this topic is because you want to find other people like you so you don't feel better about yourself.

I know im a little bit rude but that's my opinion.

 

[Treblaine]

depends what you mean... if you mean people going out of their way to help handicapped people, then no. that is expected of a person

i find it odd though, that handicapped people are allowed to cut in line for theme park rides. it just doesnt make any sense to me.

I saw a documentary on disability, they did an experiment.

At a taxi rank where 20 so people are waiting they had a typical walking person politely ask each person in the queue to go in front of them. Not a single person let him skip the queue. No sympathy or consideration: "I got here first, Wait Your Turn!"

Then they repeated the test, again waited for 20 so people queuing for a taxi and a typical guy in a wheelchair joined and asked each person if they could skip past them. None of them for a second objected, they instantly said "sure, go right past". Never even hinted that he had a valid reason, the way the wheelchair user asked was with no sense of entitlement:

"Excuse me, I was wondering if I could go ahead of you in the queue?"

No excuse, no reason. It was a request not for a need but a simple desire, and each one willingly let him pass.

I'd like to add this was in England, the country that treats queue skipping worse than randomly hurling racial abuse at passers by.

In the documentary the tester in the wheelchair was really disappointed with the outcome, he was getting unfair treatment, he was allowed to skipped the queue for no reason. He presumed it was pity and he did not want to be pitied. He didn't want people compensating for his disability by rewarding him with queue skipping, waiting in line is one area that wheelchair users have an advantage as it is standing takes extra effort (though of course inclines are a major problem).

Rather than compensation from society (that he saw separated him from society), he wanted accommodation that included him. He wanted to queue like anyone else but just the help ONLY WHEN NEEDED for the difficulty in transition stages like help moving from his chair to the seat in the taxi/roller-coaster ride.

I wonder, do all those theme parks have it "as policy" for wheelchair users skip the queue because they have specialist staff to safely (I mean lawsuit safe) transfer someone from wheelchair to ride that they can't have on standby waiting for someone to come through the queue? Or is it because the problem is with the public? The public's problem being they don't know how to treat those with disability. They see someone in a wheelchair join the queue, what if half insist on letting him pass them, then one person disagrees = argument and punch up in family friendly theme park.

They confuse "adapting to need" with "being extra nice with everything"

 

[Esotera]

I don't think it's much of a problem to accept the consequent of that implication. Yes, you would be disabled, despite being perfectly healthy. Similarly, someone whose leg has been severed can still be perfectly healthy too.

I'd say losing a leg is in a slightly different ballpark than thinking in a different way than the norm. And for the original issue, physical disabilities are going to be more of a hindrance than mental ones.

Whether psychiatric diagnosis is indicative of physiological malfunction is a live debate, and one that academic psychology takes very seriously. But that's not obviously relevant to the question of whether someone is disabled or can be granted social support.

Or the other way round. It'd be very interesting to know what actually causes all these symptoms.

 

[Staskala]

In the documentary the tester in the wheelchair was really disappointed with the outcome, he was getting unfair treatment, he was allowed to skipped the queue for no reason. He presumed it was pity and he did not want to be pitied. He didn't want people compensating for his disability by rewarding him with queue skipping, waiting in line is one area that wheelchair users have an advantage as it is standing takes extra effort (though of course inclines are a major problem).

Rather than compensation from society (that he saw separated him from society), he wanted accommodation that included him. He wanted to queue like anyone else but just the help ONLY WHEN NEEDED for the difficulty in transition stages like help moving from his chair to the seat in the taxi/roller-coaster ride.

I wonder, do all those theme parks have it "as policy" for wheelchair users skip the queue because they have specialist staff to safely (I mean lawsuit safe) transfer someone from wheelchair to ride that they can't have on standby waiting for someone to come through the queue? Or is it because the problem is with the public? The public's problem being they don't know how to treat those with disability. They see someone in a wheelchair join the queue, what if half insist on letting him pass them, then one person disagrees = argument and punch up in family friendly theme park.

They confuse "adapting to need" with "being extra nice with everything"

The big problem here is that physically or mentally disabled people aren't a homogenous mass of people.
Some of them downright detest getting special treatment while others are offended if they are treated just as everyone else.
From personal experience most disabled people seem to belong to the former group, but it's not like you can see it on their face.
There is no universally accepted way, hence why most "normal" people resort to special treatment because if you screw up, it's because you were too nice, not some discriminatory asshole.

 

[Woodsey]

"I'll give you an example. Handicap parking. Handicap parking is a parking spot that can only be used by people with a handicap. Thus discriminating towards people who DO NOT have a handicap , because we cannot park there."

... really?

That's your leading example for this? That's done because they are handicapped, and it is far more awkward for them to travel distance X when there's however many cars about - stationary and driving.

Its there to compensate for it, not to have them be "better" than us.

 

[drisky]

Your, right, also we should stop giving sick people medicine, I don't have a terminal illness and you don't hear me complaining.

So yeah you sound pretty ridiculous, you can always break your legs and then you can park slightly closer to places. I'm sure it will make you life far easier. Of course you don't have working legs and would need special attachments to your car, but we can't give you those, its unfair to the people that can use the pedals isn't it?

 

[teh_gunslinger]

To OP: the problem is that you are a terrible person. You are unkind, selfish and very rude.

It's perfectly reasonable to make parking spots to handicapped people if we want them to take part in society. They need more room to get in an out of a care usually. So stop being a privileged asshole and use one of the 500 other spots in the lot.

As for not being allowed to laugh at them. That's just common courtesy. As for calling a girl with cancer ugly? Way to stay classy!

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Treating a handicapped person more favourably over a perfectly able person because you don't want to offend them is positive discrimination. It's not confined to disabilities either, the same thing can happen with race.

However a handicapped parking space is not preferential treatment, it's necessary 90% of the time. It's the same with parent and child parking spaces, which are closer to the entrance and wider to allow for prams and whatnot.

Say you gave a wheelchair bound man a job over the many other candidates simply because he was in a wheelchair: positive discrimination.
Say you purposely didn't give said man a job because he was in a wheelchair: discrimination.
Say you judged each candidate fairly and gave it to the right person: neither.