Is it stealing to pirate a game you own physicaly but cant install

[Phyroxis]

I bought a truck and it broke down so I stole another one from the dealer.

Wow! Small world! I also bought a truck and it broke down. Dagblasted keyhole apparatus fell off *sighs*

It's ok though. I hotwired it so I could once again use that truck that... um, you know... I BOUGHT

But you didn't hotwire someone else truck did you?

Because his phrasing was so unclear. But, to dig at your implied argument. If someone uploaded a copy of software that you wanted to download. They still never owned that software (and it is not within their rights to distribute that software) that being said, you're not liable for downloading it unless you download it and use it without a legally obtained license.

 

[Timmibal]

IT IS ILLEGAL to download a game as it is not YOUR copy.

Define 'your' copy. Again I bring up Digital distribution services. Does Steam/GOG posess infinate copies of every single game they sell, each distinct and identifiable from the other? No. You purchase a license to the software, not a specific 'copy' thereof.

IT IS ILLEGAL to break the copyright on your game which you have to do in order to make a backup.

Wrong. Flat out 100% wrong. Academic license being the most frequent of the myriad and varied situations in which copy protection/DRM can be justifiably bypassed.

Who's the lawyer who gave you this information? I definately would never want them representing me in court.

 

[AmbitiousWorm]

If you are going to get copies off the internet just be aware that the company that made it would, most likely, consider what you are doing illegal.

What they consider illegal is not always the case. If it were, then every threatening e-mail you are forwarded by yout ISP after accessing a compromised tracker would be accompanied by a summons.

Starcraft II was supposedly the most pirated game of 2010.
You can 'Purchase' SCII, like my GOG example, by license only from battle.net, without ever actually receiving a physical 'copy' of it.
Nowhere in the EULA for Starcraft II does it say that my digital download must be obtained from blizzard/activision servers. In fact, considering that their download client is torrent based, even the 'official' downloader cannot be said to be operating purely from the official host. How accurate then can their statistics of people 'illegally' obtaining their game be said to be?

Likewise, most gamers familiar with SecuRom DRM will be familiar with being forced to crack their LEGALLY PURCHASED software in order to make it work properly. If the software is indeed licensed, not owned, as most eulas so smugly state, how is it then "Illegal" to seek to obtain a working copy of software I have obtained a legal license to operate?

but you are paying for one of what ever it is. If every time someone downloaded a free copy of a game/movie/whatever the company that made it got money it would not be illegal. They want to own and control the rights to their productions so they can make money off them. they don't care that you broke/lost it, they want you to buy another. By downloading it you didn't pay for the second one. That's all there is to it.

And none of what you just said pertains to law. Thats all corporate interest and desire there. Whether or not the act of downloading software sans crack and unlocking said software with a legally obtained license is what is being discussed right now and essentially it comes down to a grey area.

Your conceptions of what a corporation would want or desire are irrelevant.

It is a grey area because it is easy to make copies. If it was just as easy to copy a truck we would be having the same discussion about car theft.

 

[Tony2077]

its rather stupid not to get to play a game you payed for.

Really? It is? I didn't know that. Thanks, that explains everything.

what more could i add. if its one with a cd key your using something you payed for so what the point thinking about it any more then that

 

[AmbitiousWorm]

I bought a truck and it broke down so I stole another one from the dealer.

Wow! Small world! I also bought a truck and it broke down. Dagblasted keyhole apparatus fell off *sighs*

It's ok though. I hotwired it so I could once again use that truck that... um, you know... I BOUGHT

But you didn't hotwire someone else truck did you?

Because his phrasing was so unclear. But, to dig at your implied argument. If someone uploaded a copy of software that you wanted to download. They still never owned that software (and it is not within their rights to distribute that software) that being said, you're not liable for downloading it unless you download it and use it without a legally obtained license.

But you don't have a legally obtained license for the downloaded one you just have a legally obtained license for the one on the CD.

I see games/movies (in physical or digital form) as single items/products. If you consider them to be different, whether its because you know more about them (very possible) or just because you disagree means that we can't argue about it.

 

[captaincabbage]

I dunno. It's a real grey area I reckon.

I did the same thing way back when I bought Mechwarrior 4: Mercs, but I coldn't install it because my PC's disc drive wasn't working at the time.
Thankfully it has now come out for free on Mektek.com, so I don't really feel bad for it.

 

[AmbitiousWorm]

Technicality it would be piracy since you are getting it from pirates. BUT in this situation no one gives a fuck about technicalities and you are in the clear.

You own a copy. Cannot get copy onto computer. You payed them so you can take the game form ap irate all you like.

Notch put it that when you pirate a game it is lost POTENTIAL revenue. It cost them nothing to copy it so he loses potential revenue not actual revenue. The devs are not even losing potential revenue when you get a copy pirated after you bought the game.

Yes they are losing potential revenue. If you needed another copy and COULDN'T pirate it that means that you would have to buy it again.

 

[Tony2077]

this is why steam style stuff is better it get rid of this so you can just play the game without thinking about how your going to install it if the cd is lost or broken

 

[Dense_Electric]

As far as I'm aware, it's not illegal to download information even if that information has been illegally uploaded - it is illegal to use that information unless you've paid for the rights to use it. In fact a lot of people torrent games and then pay the publisher for a license key (not really sure why, but they do). If you've already paid for the rights to use it, I'm pretty sure you're legally allowed to download and use that information.

Though that's really all irrelevant, from an ethical and moral standpoint you're fully within your right to torrent a game you've already bought.

But you don't have a legally obtained license for the downloaded one you just have a legally obtained license for the one on the CD.

You have a legally obtained license to use that information, the information on the disc is identical to the one from the torrent site. Look at it this way - when you purchase a hard-copy of the Orange Box, Valve gives you access to download the game digitally from the Steam servers (in fact I've done it). But you only paid for the copy of the data disc, so by your logic that's illegal.

 

[Phyroxis]

If you are going to get copies off the internet just be aware that the company that made it would, most likely, consider what you are doing illegal.

What they consider illegal is not always the case. If it were, then every threatening e-mail you are forwarded by yout ISP after accessing a compromised tracker would be accompanied by a summons.

Starcraft II was supposedly the most pirated game of 2010.
You can 'Purchase' SCII, like my GOG example, by license only from battle.net, without ever actually receiving a physical 'copy' of it.
Nowhere in the EULA for Starcraft II does it say that my digital download must be obtained from blizzard/activision servers. In fact, considering that their download client is torrent based, even the 'official' downloader cannot be said to be operating purely from the official host. How accurate then can their statistics of people 'illegally' obtaining their game be said to be?

Likewise, most gamers familiar with SecuRom DRM will be familiar with being forced to crack their LEGALLY PURCHASED software in order to make it work properly. If the software is indeed licensed, not owned, as most eulas so smugly state, how is it then "Illegal" to seek to obtain a working copy of software I have obtained a legal license to operate?

but you are paying for one of what ever it is. If every time someone downloaded a free copy of a game/movie/whatever the company that made it got money it would not be illegal. They want to own and control the rights to their productions so they can make money off them. they don't care that you broke/lost it, they want you to buy another. By downloading it you didn't pay for the second one. That's all there is to it.

And none of what you just said pertains to law. Thats all corporate interest and desire there. Whether or not the act of downloading software sans crack and unlocking said software with a legally obtained license is what is being discussed right now and essentially it comes down to a grey area.

Your conceptions of what a corporation would want or desire are irrelevant.

It is a grey area because it is easy to make copies. If it was just as easy to copy a truck we would be having the same discussion about car theft.

Um, yes, thats correct. This doesn't advance your position. And we do have this discussion, about many knock-offs from overseas. But we're not talking about knock-offs or duplicates.

We're talking about falsified licenses. Illustration:

Since you're so fond of trucks, I'll go ahead and talk in your terms. We're looking at a Dorf model P980 twelve-door double-tailgate. Specifically, we're looking at two of them, physically. The first one is on the right and the second one is on the left.

Dorf P980 1 and Dorf P980 2. They are the same model and make, but they're still different. Fundamentally they look the same and operate very similarly, but they are two separate objects that are made up of different components (engine parts for the Dorf 980 on the right came from the east coast, and engine parts for the Dorf 980 on the left came from the midwest).

Now, software. Lets look at Drazzilb Barfsmack 8. We've got two copies of it. One is on a CD and one is digital download.

Each of those copies came from the EXACT same source. The gold master [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_master] (or the build right before the gold master is written. They are not similiar, not the same, they are EXACT copies of eachother. Bit-for-bit there is no difference.


Now. Ralf decides to buy a Dorf 980 today, and a copy of Barfsmack 8. He gets the Dorf 980 on the right. Its his, he owns that thing and can do whatever he wants with it. Barfsmack 8, however, he doesn't actually own. Sure, he gets a physical disk, but the license explicitly states that all hes really getting is a license to use the software on that disk.


Herbert decides to get a Doft 980 as well, and also a copy of Barfsmack 8. He also gets to own his truck, full and clear. Its his, baby. Barfsmack 8, though, is not his. He only downloaded it from the publisher's website. BUT his license agreement (the same as the one Ralf agreed to) gives him a license to use the software, too.


But, before they're happily playing against each other on SmackNet, Ralf accidentally runs over his copy of Barfsmack 8 with his truck! But, thats okay, his friend Herbert copied his install file from the publisher onto a USB stick and gave it to Ralf. Ralf installs the game on his computer, puts in his own license key, and is off on SmackNet.


So where does that leave us?

With one license violation and possible litigation. Herbert distributed a copy of his game. Thats against the EULA. He could get in trouble for that.

But Ralf (in a situation similar to the OP)? He didn't do anything wrong and didn't violate his terms of agreement.


And whats happening at the end of the day? They're playing Barfsmack with each other, with their trucks sitting collecting dust in their driveways.

 

[Gigano]

In legal terms, it's probably a violation of copyright laws, as it's making a copy off an illegal source, and the status of the source is generally what copyright laws assign weight to (which is certainly unwieldy in a situation like this).

In ethical terms, I see no harm to it. The purpose of copyright laws is to ensure that publishers get paid - which they were - not deny access to data, that's only the means to an end.

 

[Fr]anc[is]

its rather stupid not to get to play a game you payed for.

Really? It is? I didn't know that. Thanks, that explains everything.

what more could i add. if its one with a cd key your using something you payed for so what the point thinking about it any more then that

Don't worry about it, after that quote I'm pretty sure he's just trying to irritate people

 

[Phyroxis]

I bought a truck and it broke down so I stole another one from the dealer.

Wow! Small world! I also bought a truck and it broke down. Dagblasted keyhole apparatus fell off *sighs*

It's ok though. I hotwired it so I could once again use that truck that... um, you know... I BOUGHT

But you didn't hotwire someone else truck did you?

Because his phrasing was so unclear. But, to dig at your implied argument. If someone uploaded a copy of software that you wanted to download. They still never owned that software (and it is not within their rights to distribute that software) that being said, you're not liable for downloading it unless you download it and use it without a legally obtained license.

But you don't have a legally obtained license for the downloaded one you just have a legally obtained license for the one on the CD.

I see games/movies (in physical or digital form) as single items/products. If you consider them to be different, whether its because you know more about them (very possible) or just because you disagree means that we can't argue about it.

See my other post. The software is the same, regardless of where you downloaded/copied it from. It all comes from the same source.


As for your second paragraph. Thats neat. Your opinion on whether or not its owned by a user, or what a company wants, or anything that isn't about the law is irrelevant. Your initial post said its "illegal" which means we're no longer talking about your, or my, opinion. It means we're talking about both the spirit and the word of the law.

And from that point, we can argue about it on one point. Because the word is explicit and the spirit is interpreted, we can only argue about the spirit. That is, what we think the judge would say if he got this case.

The fact of the matter is, you've been throwing around unconnected, fallacious analogies and arguments that completely miss the argument at hand. The reason it is so grey is that software is not typical merchandise. The product is not something you own and it deals in licenses to users and the actual product itself (the data of which the software is composed) is non-physical and can be copied (not knocked-off) EXACTLY.

 

[Thandran]

Didn't read every response but in my eyes you aren't pirating. You've bought the game once fair and square. So you should be able to play it.

 

[Fanta Grape]

I'm going to say no.

Let's say it like this:

If I bought Black Ops for the Xbox 360, but then it ringed, is that the game's fault or your own? You're using a computer that doesn't have a disk drive. That is a consequence of getting that sort of computer.

Although there's no real right or wrong to this situation, so decide yourself. That's just my opinion

 

[Zaik]

As long as you have a working product key available I don't think the FBI is going to set your house on fire over it.

Though, you never know.

 

[Tony2077]

anc[is]

its rather stupid not to get to play a game you payed for.

Really? It is? I didn't know that. Thanks, that explains everything.

what more could i add. if its one with a cd key your using something you payed for so what the point thinking about it any more then that

Don't worry about it, after that quote I'm pretty sure he's just trying to irritate people

he could have but in the end i couldn't think of anything to add to it that hasn't already been said and better then anything i could think of

 

[Vibhor]

It is legal
This kind of thing though was discouraged in the 90s from what I gather.