is lollipop chainsaw bastardizing our industry?

[ramox]

You mean, the same way Strippers vs. Zombies and Cheerleaders from Hell hurt the movie industry?

Oh, wait...

Seriously, there are tons of things that hurt the gaming industry. Like giant publishers bleeding out developers, stupid costumers buying the same game again and again while at the same time complaining about getting always the same or the press with their bullshit numeric rating systems (and the derp people living by those numbers). And that's just a few.

But a game like Lollypop Chainsaw? Hell no.

 

[mronoc]

No, It's called irony. The whole thing is meant to be ridiculous, silly, and over the top, and it maintains a tone that is conducive toward that aim. It's not like, say, the Hitman: Absolution trailer, where it's ridiculous, silly, and over the top, but still has the same serious, dour, gritty tone that the series has always had.

Tone, and how the subject matter is handled, are more important than the subject matter itself.

 

[DeimosMasque]

Having beaten the game today (which my wife wanted to get as much as me) I can say it has its cheesecake and tease moments. That achievement others have pointed out for moving the camera to look up the skirt is worth 5 points... and guess what. When you try to, she holds her skirt down so you can't. It still gives you the achievement but the game even mocks you for trying.

The character herself is shown to be smarter than her boyfriend, gets great grades in school, speaks multiple languages, and kicks ass so hard that her boyfriend can't believe it.

She isn't stupid, she's innocent. She's a virgin, but not afraid of sex. She's smart but lacks any sort of knowledge of the real world.
Having basically trained from from birth for this life. Her father and sister are similarly stilted (to varying degrees) because the idea of being a zombie hunter (or vampire/Sasquatch/Franken Berry hunter if you prefer) is so divorced from societal norms that she and her family are weird and eccentric.

Add to this an over-protective father (That her friends all call a DILF) and a house-wife mother who basically is supportive but bears a lot in common with Donna Reed.

Nick is her first BF because she's been afraid of to let her 'weirdo zombie hunting family' meet him and be rejected. Even when he's just a disembodied head kept alive by magic she is hesitant to tell Nick about her origins.

The game itself mocks 50s Americana and gender roles, making Nick a head that can't do anything without Juliette, and she uses a method of zombie killing popularized by Bruce Campbell (granted his characters name is Ashley in those movies.)

When her BF is even remotely useful to the story its because of her. He is entirely emasculated (literally, just being a head now) by her presence. Whenever her sex or beauty is even referenced its either by her boyfriend reminding her that she's attractive or students/zombie non sequitur.

The "We wear our vaginas on our sleeve" line, that was in a few trailers is actually a line about being extremely proud to be female, not some sort of "we're sluts" line.

Yes, her Sensei is a perv, and the game points out he's a perv. Yes, Juliette is oblivious to it. That's because she trusted him and as I stated earlier, she's a bit innocent and oblivious. She's not stupid, she's trusting; and coming from a close-knit family as she does, it makes sense that she's that trusting.

I would argue (as I have above) that Juliette is as much a subversion of the typical cheesecake "hot for no reason" as Bayonetta was, or the original Laura Croft was. Or like Samantha Carter of SG-1, Starbuck of the new Battlestar Galactica, Aeryn Sun from Farscape or Black Widow from Iron Man 2/Avengers.

P.S., i did not buy this, i just watched videos by people with the same complaint as i, showing the part ive referenced to.

Um yeah, did you just say you watched a bunch of videos that confirmed your own opinion, that I assume you got from watching the trailers? Or was it found through some other method?

Either way, of course your going to confirm your opinion that way. It's like a Republican watching Fox News and saying 'See, I'm right!"

 

[Semitendon]

Nope. I think the game looks pretty poor, but it's simply one game. If you define the game industry by a single game then you have to do the same with other forms of entertainment media. Should all music be judged on Justin Bieber? Should all movies be judged on The Transformers? Should all books be judged on Twilight?

Certainly there are some people who would judge all of videogames based on Lollipop Chainsaw, but are those the type of people who's opinions you value in the first place?

Umm, Maybe. I get what you are saying and it's a fair point when looked at in detail. The video game industry should not be judged from one game. There are several other games that show geniune effort to further the experience of playing video games. . Rocksmith comes to mind as a shining example of someone trying to make a video game into something more than mindless entertainment.

But in a broad view your argument, and especially your examples, make a different point. Bieber in music, Bay in movies, and the Twilight books are all evidence of a popular entry into a medium that causes the medium in general to be viewed as worse than before.

The problem is that all of these entrys reflect the mindset of the people who consume them, and with the exception of their individual fans, nearly everyone else looks at this group of people and proclaims them ignorant/morons/tasteless or whatever other negative word applies. The problem is, the people on the outside looking in, are often correct. ( although I will stress, they are not always correct)

If we take Twilight as an example, it's a poorly written story is unoriginal, with the exception of basterdizing the entire concept of vampires and werewolves. Infintitly worse is the number of Twilight clones that are now popping up all over.

When the outside world sees ads for video games, they generally see an ad portraying violence. Lollipop Chainsaw adds the infantile sexuality to the established violence concept.

It brings the entire concept of video games down to a level that most people on the escapist are trying to avoid. It's not overly judgemental people who will frown at Lollipop Chainsaw, but just the general public, and they will frown because of the infantile view of sex, violence loving, and time wasting indivduals that we have proclaimed ourselves to be.

It's ironic how many gamers complain about stereotypes showing them as all of the negative things I just listed. Then casually dismiss a game that tells the entire world the stereotypes are all true, as just being "one game" and that the only people it will affect are the "haters".

The only way I can see to improve the situation, is to make Lollipop Chainsaw fail so hard in sales that the industry realizes that gamers aren't interested in this nonsense. Eventually, the industry will give up the idea of these types of games, and then maybe, only maybe, will we see the viscious cycle come to an end.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Oh, god, this is the new Duke Nukem Forever, isn't it.

No, it's not "bastardizing" our industry. That's fucking ignorant. Stop it.

 

[DingoDoom]

Did anyone else notice the game is pretty much a carbon copy of the awful Onechanbara?

ust sayin'

Too bad it isn't a carbon copy. Similar theme but the game itself in storyline, characters, and style are completely its own.

 

[Kahunaburger]

No, it's just a mediocre style > substance game from a developer who makes mediocre style > substance games.

 

[DingoDoom]

Did anyone else notice the game is pretty much a carbon copy of the awful Onechanbara?

ust sayin'

Too bad it isn't a carbon copy. Similar theme but the game itself in storyline, characters, and style are completely its own.

You mean that there's a difference between these 3rd person hack 'n slash with scantily clad female protagonists slaying undead hordes because the story might be different?

No. That's the same game.
Go to 3:16 to see schoolgirl chainsaw action...

Looks A LOT like Lollipop Chainsaw doesn't it.

Who gives a crap if the story varies - this is not an RPG - gameplay is the meat and potatoes of this type of game - which is nearly identical.

Right because all hack 'n slash games are just the same like how all shooters is just the same because you just hold down the trigger and spray bullets right?

I have said already that the theme is the same, the game itself is not a carbon copy. The formula is generic hack 'n slash used by all hack 'n slash games ever.

Onechanbara has character switching and multiple weapons. The main weapons are katanas, that character (Saya I believe) just so happens to have a chainsaw weapon. Don't judge a book by its cover, if you want to criticize how similar they are play them. The game mechanics are completely different other than combos.

Differences between the two:
1) LPC does not have blood meter that fills up when you kill zombies
2) LPC weapons do not get stuck in zombies after you hit them if you don't clean off your weapon
3) There are more than one protagonist that you can play (The video is Onechanbara Z, not the first game)
4) You can switch characters when attacking to create tag combos (more similar to Warriors Orochi than anything)
5) The aesthetic as a whole is completely different, you may not think it matters but it does if you are saying LPc is is the same game
6) In the game, timing matters ala Bayonetta sytle in attack system, LPC is button combos like Ninja Gaiden 3 (not 2 or 1)
6a) what I mean by above is that combos link smoothly and can be continued if you know how to chain them, in LPC when you finish a button combo, that is it. (as far as I've tried anyways)

Aesthetically:
1) LPC has brighter colors
2) MUCH more light-hearted
3) LPC is more of a parody while Onechanbara is more sexploitation than LPC
4) Bosses are clearly different
5) Setting and story (obviously)
6) No QTE (I don't remember any)
7) Everything else besides zombies (default costume of Juliet is much more tame than Onechanbara. I mean come on, standard cheerleader outfit vs bikini.)

like I said, the games have similar themes and if that is all you're judging the game by fine by me, but don't say they are the same game because they are not. Do not ignore that the story and characters are different because they have zombies etc because if you are saying they are the same game, than story and characters do matter. LPC is clearly much MUCH more light-hearted.

 

[PurePareidolia]

It's Suda51 so the odds of this being specifically designed to mock other games are something like 1000%.

Whether that excuses it or not is certainly up for debate though

 

[Zaik]

Yes, one video game marks everyone who is ever involved with video games as a...whatever you're even complaining about.

Just like when old media initially turned against rock music, anyone who was witnessed listening to any radio on any station at all by any person in public was considered some kinda devil worshiper.

Oh, and after the very first bad movie was released, anyone who went to see any movie at any movie theater was asked why they were wasting their time, because every movie was always going to be terrible from then on forever.





What surprises me is that there are actually people who can draw that kind of conclusion. That's such an alien train of thought to me that you might as well be speaking an entirely different language. Hell, make it a language with no attachment to Latin for added confusion.

Maybe this is some sort of kneejerk reaction panic, and you're not thinking entirely clearly or something. In that case, take a step back, count to ten, and explain your point again.

 

[EHKOS]

It's more satire than anything else. I'm glad to see it push people out of their comfort zone. But yeah, I wouldn't want these kinds of games to be a general thing.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The industry has been bastardize way before LPC, look at the slow march down hill from the late 90's to today. Game play and the game play narrative all have been watered down or ruthlessly simplified/sanitized in order to sell to a dumber yet wider/larger audience.

 

[Suicidejim]

I think, presentation wise at least, it looks quite fun. The combat looks (and apparently is) a bit meh, but the rest makes me smile slightly. And it has Jimmy Urine from MSI playing one of the bosses, which is goddamn awesome (although I was surprised the man behind such modern classics as 'Dicks Are For My Friends,' 'Masturbates' and 'Pussy All Night' would stoop to such low-brow humour).

Sometimes you need a crazy grindhouse-style game to stroll along with one tongue firmly planted in cheek, it's very existence an extended joke. 'House of the Dead: Overkill' was another enjoyable example of that kind of presentation done well.

Besides, better to have a game that knows it's stupid and plays it for all it's worth, than a game that thinks it's clever but is really just as stupid as the rest.

 

[jpoon]

The game looks fucking idiotic from all I have seen of it (no I have not played it). I highly doubt I will give it a chance, this game is most likely not helping to bring more people into gaming.

 

[Cannibal Johnson]

I wouldn't say its bastardizing the industry that much, but it certainly isn't helping when people try to say games are starting to be more intelligent and mature. And it really pains me to say it because I absolute love Suda51 and his work. If anything we should be making less games like this. I don't mean stop making them, its okay to be immature once and a while, but just make less of these types of games and make a once in a while kind of thing

 

[Khanht Cope]

I reject all this crap about this game being 'satirical'. Satire is political and applies humour and ridicule for the purpose of subversion. It is used by opponents of particular attitudes and types of thinking.

What the hell is satirical about wacky insane fun for the sake of wacky insane fun?

Where is the 'satire' in this game? what is being subverted? what is the message supposed to be?

"... cuz popular western entertainment has cheerleaders, and zombies... and stuff..."(?)

The only thing that struck me as somewhat satirical was when Juliet's older sister met her BF head and fawned over that prospect of never worrying about food or her weight.

It takes some time for some other light mockery at different things; but it's mockery for the sake of fun and nothing else. To say it is satirical is to say it should be examined for meaning.

What Suda did was use lots of American pop culture references and colourful Japanese wackiness in the the extreme to make a tongue-in-cheek "fun" zombie game full of gags and winks.

He had the idea while on the toilet. It's not nearly so serious or pretentious as to have something to say about anything.

I hate when people say satire in the absence of the right terms to use. I've heard people call Orwell's Animal Farm satirical, when what they mean is allegorical.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

This article is very good at explaining why it isn't

and why Lollipop Chainsaw is an one of the best games for women's representation in gaming.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/51500/could-something-called-lollipop-chainsaw-actually-be-one-of-the-best-games-of-the-year