Is MS really screwing up?

[Ragsnstitches]

They screwed up their opening announcement, yes... we still have half a year until the Betamax One is actually in stores no one can say whether they actually screwed up. Heck, even then we can't say shit until the first year of sales and how they compare with the Wii-U and PS4.

Personally the entire next gen seems rather unappealing to me, offensive even. No innovation, just lots of frilly bits on top of the same old, tired formula and bigger emphasis on shackling the consumer. But I think too many people WANT MS to fail and have, therefore, jumped the shark and declared it a failure entirely.

This is coming from a person who only just tolerates MS, never owned an MS product outside of Operating systems (namely 98, XP and 7) and is planning to switch to Linux in the near future. (EDIT: I also owned Age of Empires 1 and 2... but I'm not sure if that counts).

Yeah, I think the furious circle jerking going on is not something to hold as an intelligent criticism of a vaguely detailed product. There are some legitamte concerns been brought up, but until more info is offered it's all just preamble to an even worse shitstorm... another flaming console war.

 

[Callate]

Yes. Yes, they really screwed up. They essentially confirmed every unpleasant rumor that people had been hearing about the system excepting perhaps "always on", while strongly implying that a) the system's functionality would be hindered if not out-and-out bricked by not being able to radio into Microsoft on a daily basis and b) they would be actively encouraging developers working with their system to require constant network access.

On the bright side, they showed cameras slowly panning around models that look very slightly better than last generation's models that will be featured in games where slight increases in model fidelity are likely to go unnoticed, and suggested that what their customers have really been looking forward to is not new games but the ability to use Skype while watching The Price Is Right without having to open their tablet, smartphone, or netbook.

They started with an audience that was nervous and uncertain, and ended with one that was angry and uncertain (at best). They've made a strong case that any focus testing they might have done only bothered visiting the corporate campus of Microsoft and perhaps some of its business partners, and that they've spent years working towards the misbegotten goals devised off of that badly skewed data.

I have never seen a company that so desperately needed to pull off a knock-your-shoes-off-and-stick-the-landing performance at E3- a setting where they notably have significantly less control and significantly more competition for attention. Admittedly, Microsoft might well be wishing they could get a little less attention right now, but that option is no longer on the table.

 

[RelexCryo]

Two words that sum up why I will NEVER own an Xbone, why I still don't own a Kinect and why I will never allow my brother to bring his Xbone to my place-ever. Big Brother. I don't care if it makes me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. I know human nature enough to know that that peripheral will be abused and we will have no way of stopping them. It could be made outrightly illegal for them to make use of any information they come across through the use of the Kinectboner, but how would we know if they had or hadn't? I don't know about you, but that's the sticker to me. It isn't the fact that a games console is toting itself as a Multimedia Device for the masses(Ala Apple), it isn't the lackluster amount of actual gameplay footage, it isn't the shitty attitude at Microsoft(Which rivals Apple fanboy zealotry in terms of sheer mindless reality bending pants on head retardation.). It all ultimately boils down to that one High Def peripheral which is ALWAYS ON,(Not even online, which it would be if it's connected.) it's on permanent standby waiting for you to say "Xbox on" and unless you're capable of breaking into the infrastructure(Thus eliminating your EULA and likely bricking your console) you won't know what it's up to. That's why I say FUCK the Xbone. I will never accept it, I will never purchase it. I will ignore it even if it has the greatest collection of titles in the history of the medium, even if, by some insanity, they become console exclusive and exclusive to the Xbone. I'll survive, I'll watch some Let's Play's(Something I've never done before.), I'll read some reviews, the wiki's, the storylines(My number 1 enjoyed part of gaming is the storyline, the gameplay comes a close second.). But Microsoft will not get a sale out of me, and I'll be damn sure anyone I know who's interested in it will be told the same thing, stay away from it unless you're willing to not only invite Big Brother into your home-But pay him for watching you and turning you into another commodity.

/Tin Foil Hat mode

TL;DR: In all seriousness, that's the deal breaker for me. A camera/microphone that's always on standby or in use within my primary location(My living room is where I eat/game/study/general living). I simply can't accept that and I won't.

I'm with you on this one. Although I am typing this on an Xbox right now, I am not getting it.

 

[Nimzabaat]

Jumping in without any info is what the internet is all about

Seriously though, MS has already won this gen. The reveal was not supposed to appeal to gamers (that's E3) so much as families and it worked well in that regard. Family units want one box that can do everything and babysit at the same time. That's pretty much what the xbone will do. Gamers want a whole bunch of question answered that MS wasn't thinking they'd have to deal with until E3. Is it really their fault that gamers don't listen? (Okay, yes it is. MS allowed publishers to make games easier and then the players get used to be spoon fed and it goes on from there.) Just bear in mind that people are getting all the stupid mis-placed hate out of their systems now and a lot of attitudes will change after E3.

Yeah WiiU failed so much it was sad. I saw the reports that sales went up 875% (?) when the Xbox One was revealed. Which sounds awesome until you read the other part where it only sold 7,000 units in May. Meaning it's still the worst selling console on the market. (though it is the BEST selling console of its generation!)

I know i'm holding off on any new console until I find out whether or not you actually need to be on Cloud. Cloud is subject to the Patriot Act which means the US government can look at anything on it at any time without asking. That's fine if you're a US citizen, but i'm not.

 

[Lightknight]

1. Alienating the customer base by destroying existing and loved institutions (pre-owned games) in ways other industries (like the movie industry) don't do
2. Invading the privacy of consumers in a way that many people find fault with.
3. Forcing the kinect on users in a way that will inflate the price of the system.
4. Functionally forcing always online onto developers and users by making a less powerful system geared towards cloud computing. Even if we had the infrastructure to handle streaming cloud computing this is still something gamers don't want.
5. Failure to show any game examples. I understand that they plan to make some serious reveals at E3 but to not do any of them here was a mistake when the gaming audience is considered.

Doing all the above when the competition is putting up a serious alternative that doesn't appear to be setting those traps is an awful step. Whether intentionally or not, Microsoft is stating loudly and with purpose that the customer is wrong and that they can't do anything about it. I don't know what impact these things will actually have on the end results but this has probably detracted from their market share in a meaningful way. It's Sony's turn to make their own mistakes or to take advantage of this mistep. In any event, the 360 did not have the number of exclusives that the ps3 enjoyed so I'm not yet sure if I'll have the Xbone this time around unless something changes.

Screwing up/mistake? Absolutely. Death of the console? No, not likely. Later on when it turns out that a significant number of gamers don't have the infrastructure to maintain stable and reliable connections to enable meaningful cloud computing in addition to online gaming then we may see an "oops" moment that is even worse than Sim City's mistake.

 

[NiPah]

So we're just going to ignore the whole online 24hour check thing right? right... We're just going to trust that when the Xbox one launches there servers are going to run just fine and have no downtime, or when the new COD or Halo comes out that huge jump in users will go off without a hitch, or if it ever gets hacked like with the PS3 and they have to take down the servers you'll still be able to use your Xbox One right?

Keep in mind Microsoft is releasing the Xbox One in multiple countries at the same time...

I will be perfectly honest, I don't like the idea that I'll only be able to play my purchased games when Microsoft tells me, I didn't log into the internet for what ever reason? Microsoft now sees me as not worthy to play the games I legally purchased from them, because I might have sold them or given them to my friend or some shit.

Oh and the Kinect POS, I'm sure if Microsoft requires you to always have it plugged in just blocking it with a book will result in a game pause and "the Kinect is obstructed, please unobstruct to continue playing", I mean maybe it will still work but why the hell require it to be connected at all times in the first place then?

As for used games, Sony patented the ability to implement that feature, they've said nothing about actually using it and to say they're being vague is a pretty shitty way to say they have said nothing about used games. Microsoft on the other hand has said they plan to implement some feature controlling the use of used games, hence the required internet access to make sure you haven't sold the game.

Also stove the anti-Gamestop bullshit, used games offer a viable legal alternative to piracy and helps spread gaming to a much wider audience, instead of a single shelf of games at Walmart we see Gamestops on every street corner, I would argue that this has brought gaming away from a niche hardcore audience to a much larger audience resulting in many more sales.
Just look at PC gaming for a more niche hardcore audience.

Valve and DRM, I paid at most $20 for games from Steam, I can still play them offline without the bullshit 24hour check in (I think it's weekly?) If I pay $60 for a game I want to play it even when I'm in a hotel with shoddy internet access that bars my Live from connecting.

 

[MrBoBo]

I don't really think they are screwing up. If history has taught us anything the majority of gamers just don't care. Diablo III always online, everyone decries it...sells incredibly well. Boycott moderwarefare 2, sure thing! And look how many people from the boycott group are playing the game at launch. Tons of SimCity issues, don't worry people are buying it like hotcakes.
The thing is that no matter how many "fuck the Xbone" threads there are and no matter how much the internet kicks and screams in protest people will buy the Xbox One.

Ah sad truth. I was looking at the price of "Call Of Duty: Ghosts" on steam today and gasped at the price point.
Regardless. Depressing.

 

[Smiley Face]

I can loan my blu-ray movies all I want, and I realize people want to do that with games. My point is that it seems that the PS4 is going to do something similar.

However it might seem, the fact is that they haven't actually confirmed that they'll be doing something like this - as such, no one is spewing hate at them, because they haven't actually done anything yet. If Sony does announce nonsense like this, then people will start spewing vitriol. In that case, however, Sony's stupidity wouldn't make up for Microsoft's stupidity - they'd both be damned stupid, and plenty of folks will abandon consoles for dead. Although, in all likelihood, even if Sony does pull some nonsense out, it likely won't match the plethora of stupid moves Microsoft's just made.

Also, regarding what Microsoft needs to do to win the generation,
1. Sony's always been able to attract exclusives better than Microsoft - they get more of them, what they get is often better quality, and they last through the whole generation (I'm dying to try The Last of Us).
2. The Kinect being bundled with every Xbone means that, because competitive pricing is such an issue, the PS4 will either be cheaper, stronger, or have some kind of other technological peripheral, which will likely be of more value to me than the Kinect 2.0.
3. While it would be smart for them to abandon paid Xbox Live, their used game nonsense shows that their philosophy is focused more on sucking continual profits from wherever they can - I'd say the odds are 3 to 1 that they'll go that route. And even if they do, it only brings them up to par with the PS4.

And the sad thing is? I really prefer the 360 - good controllers, it's served me well, my friends have it, etc. It's just that the Xbone looks like it's just making all these stupid moves, I dunno.

 

[badgersprite]

It has screwed up quite badly among the core gamers so far, but it's too early to say whether it has screwed up infinitely more than Sony or whether it has screwed up amongst the rest of the gaming audience enough to truly be a real disaster.

E3 will probably be our clearest indication of the level of screwed for both Sony and Microsoft, because if it turns out that half of Microsoft's new exclusive games (that I actually thought was their one shining, golden example of a good announcement) are nothing more than Kinect games while the other half is unoriginal, uncreative samey bullshit, then that's probably a death knell.

 

[Lightknight]

Here is what MS should do to turn this around: 1) No more Xbox Live Gold. Free multiplayer gameplay period. You buy an Xbone, you get all features without an extra cost. 2) Announce awesome exclusive games. 3) Specify with detail and a video how the internet connection works and show how it works without a connection. 4) Be cheaper than the PS4. Sony can completely win if they do the above and Microsoft keeps the same course.

1. Eh, it makes sense why they have it. But if Sony can do it then it's a little embarrassing that Microsoft can't/won't. I'd more realistically expect Sony to start charging this cycle than for Microsoft to stop.
2. In order to announce awesome exclusive games you have to have had them, months if not years prior to be able to show off gameplay. But Microsoft failed this the entire past console generation so I don't know why this would do any better. If the launch humbles them then we may see some investment in that area show up.
3. How would this help them?
4. This is certainly shaping up to be a generation where Sony conquers a significant market share.

As I said above, the worst part about microsoft trying to force developers to use their cloud computing services in game development is that we won't just need to have a daily internet connection to check in, but we'll actually be required to have a good and stable connection when playing even solo player games because the cloud computing will be running calculations and trying to stream results to your Xbone in real time. This isn't just always online that we're about to face, it's always online AND dependent on appropriate speeds. Lagging in a solo game is something I actively avoid experiencing.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I don't think the Xbone is going to be great, but I'm not sure it's going to be as bad as made out to be. I just think their PR department is high or something, they've made a real pig's ear of things.

 

[Lightknight]

I don't think the Xbone is going to be great, but I'm not sure it's going to be as bad as made out to be. I just think their PR department is high or something, they've made a real pig's ear of things.

It's going to be exactly as bad as it's being made to be unless they change something. The things we're mad at now aren't rumors, they've been confirmed by microsoft. Hell, some have even been introduced as a feature.

What I expect is that Sony will end up introducing some of the same stuff. For example, I'm betting that they'll also kill off used games. We know that they filed for a patent to do exactly that and they haven't confirmed that they won't be doing that. If both major players do it at the same time then we don't really have any options.

I also anticipate a significant push for social involvement in video games. This will effectively frustrate gaming for me. I have friends that game, but I don't want to involve them in my solo gaming process.

 

[sanquin]

PS4 supposedly won't be always online. Sony has also gone on record saying that the PS4 will be able to play used games. The XBone is clearly marketed to the 'dude bro' people (as TB called it) as it mixes sports, TV, social media and oh yes...also games as an afterthought. The PS4, so far, appears to be more of a gaming console still. Not that I will be getting either of them, most likely. I want a GAMING console. Not a gaming/social media/Netflix/whatever console.

 

[Lightknight]

PS4 supposedly won't be always online. Sony has also gone on record saying that the PS4 will be able to play used games. The XBone is clearly marketed to the 'dude bro' people (as TB called it) as it mixes sports, TV, social media and oh yes...also games as an afterthought. The PS4, so far, appears to be more of a gaming console still. Not that I will be getting either of them, most likely. I want a GAMING console. Not a gaming/social media/Netflix/whatever console.

The Xbone will also be "able" to play used games, you just have to pay a price to do so.

I've heard that Sony announced this but a cursory glance around the internet rejects that premise, saying that Sony is vague about it and that fans are rallying to beg Sony not to do it too:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/05/sony-still-vague-on-ps4-used-games-drm-issue/

The fact is that Microsoft's actions significantly benefit game publishers and Sony could be at a significant disadvantage in attracting some titles if they don't also do this. Or, publishers will still make games for both regardless because they still appreciate money. I also suspect that EA only said they were going to get rid of online passes because they knew at least Microsoft was going to do this. I don't know that they would have said that if Sony wasn't going to either.

Do you have a source in which Sony actually confirmed that there will be no such used game fee?

As for the always online bit, Sony will not require this and I'm pleased about that. That's already a huge step forward in my opinion.

Interestingly enough, I vastly preferred the ps3 as my media console. I felt like the dashboard was much easier to navigate and I didn't have to purchase a ridiculous pass to be able to use it to access things on the internet (The 360 requires a membership to even be able to browse Netflix, something that has nothing to do with their network).

 

[BaronVH]

Here is what MS should do to turn this around: 1) No more Xbox Live Gold. Free multiplayer gameplay period. You buy an Xbone, you get all features without an extra cost. 2) Announce awesome exclusive games. 3) Specify with detail and a video how the internet connection works and show how it works without a connection. 4) Be cheaper than the PS4. Sony can completely win if they do the above and Microsoft keeps the same course.

1. Eh, it makes sense why they have it. But if Sony can do it then it's a little embarrassing that Microsoft can't/won't. I'd more realistically expect Sony to start charging this cycle than for Microsoft to stop.
2. In order to announce awesome exclusive games you have to have had them, months if not years prior to be able to show off gameplay. But Microsoft failed this the entire past console generation so I don't know why this would do any better. If the launch humbles them then we may see some investment in that area show up.
3. How would this help them?
4. This is certainly shaping up to be a generation where Sony conquers a significant market share.

As I said above, the worst part about microsoft trying to force developers to use their cloud computing services in game development is that we won't just need to have a daily internet connection to check in, but we'll actually be required to have a good and stable connection when playing even solo player games because the cloud computing will be running calculations and trying to stream results to your Xbone in real time. This isn't just always online that we're about to face, it's always online AND dependent on appropriate speeds. Lagging in a solo game is something I actively avoid experiencing.

See, that is what I am concerned about. I want my single player games to always work. If a game is dependent on the cloud, what happens if the developer goes under? Remember Hellgate London? I actually liked that game and enjoyed playing it single player. The developer went under and the game went kaput. First and foremost I am a movie fan. This is why I like blu-ray and will not want to be reliant upon a "cloud" to watch my movies. Let's say I have a bunch of movies on iTunes. Not likely, but what if Apple goes under? Not liklely, but it is possible. It seems that MS is taking notice, so heres hoping that the online check goes away and they revamp the thing. I think they need a quick PR turnaround and show what happens when you are playing the system without an internet connection or one that goes away. To me, this all looks like the RROD before it is even released.

 

[Eve Charm]

The thing is, online checks or not, if a game gets developed needing to be always online and connected to the cloud your pretty much screwed either way. And they'll even do it for single player or games that want to be " more online focused" but still single player I.E. diablo 3/sim city

 

[Lightknight]

Here is what MS should do to turn this around: 1) No more Xbox Live Gold. Free multiplayer gameplay period. You buy an Xbone, you get all features without an extra cost. 2) Announce awesome exclusive games. 3) Specify with detail and a video how the internet connection works and show how it works without a connection. 4) Be cheaper than the PS4. Sony can completely win if they do the above and Microsoft keeps the same course.

1. Eh, it makes sense why they have it. But if Sony can do it then it's a little embarrassing that Microsoft can't/won't. I'd more realistically expect Sony to start charging this cycle than for Microsoft to stop.
2. In order to announce awesome exclusive games you have to have had them, months if not years prior to be able to show off gameplay. But Microsoft failed this the entire past console generation so I don't know why this would do any better. If the launch humbles them then we may see some investment in that area show up.
3. How would this help them?
4. This is certainly shaping up to be a generation where Sony conquers a significant market share.

As I said above, the worst part about microsoft trying to force developers to use their cloud computing services in game development is that we won't just need to have a daily internet connection to check in, but we'll actually be required to have a good and stable connection when playing even solo player games because the cloud computing will be running calculations and trying to stream results to your Xbone in real time. This isn't just always online that we're about to face, it's always online AND dependent on appropriate speeds. Lagging in a solo game is something I actively avoid experiencing.

I think they need a quick PR turnaround and show what happens when you are playing the system without an internet connection or one that goes away. To me, this all looks like the RROD before it is even released.

This assumes that showing what happens would somehow reveal something better than we expect.

 

[sanquin]

The Xbone will also be "able" to play used games, you just have to pay a price to do so.

I've heard that Sony announced this but a cursory glance around the internet rejects that premise, saying that Sony is vague about it and that fans are rallying to beg Sony not to do it too:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/05/sony-still-vague-on-ps4-used-games-drm-issue/

The fact is that Microsoft's actions significantly benefit game publishers and Sony could be at a significant disadvantage in attracting some titles if they don't also do this. Or, publishers will still make games for both regardless because they still appreciate money. Interestingly enough, I believe that EA only said they were going to get rid of online passes because they knew at least Microsoft was going to do this. I don't know that they would have said that if Sony wasn't going to either.

Do you have a source in which Sony actually confirmed that there will be no such used game fee?

As for the always online bit, Sony will not require this and I'm pleased about that. That's already a huge step forward in my opinion.

Interestingly enough, I vastly preferred the ps3 as my media console. I felt like the dashboard was much easier to navigate and I didn't have to purchase a ridiculous pass to be able to use it to access things on the internet (The 360 requires a membership to even be able to browse Netflix, something that has nothing to do with their network).

Heh, I wish there were more posters like you. Explaining things in a calm manner and bringing good arguments.

Indeed, I wasn't able to find a direct source that Sony announced that they wouldn't require a fee for used games. If they're smart they won't do it though, imo. As If you can play used games normally on their system they will have a much larger userbase, which will automatically give developers incentive to develop for their system. If they go the used games for a fee route as well though, to me, that is an indication that the two companies made a deal with each other.

I too like the PS3 better than the Xbox 360. (I own a PS3, and before it a 360) Dashboard is indeed better, no subscription for online features is a huge plus, and the games that are out for it too have my preference. (I wish tales of vesperia was on the PS3 as well but oh well I guess.)