Is Nintendo recycling their ideas too much?

[Atmos Duality]

By economics: No. They keep selling those games, so somebody must be buying them.
Personally: Yes. Nintendo wore out their welcome with me a looooong time ago. Just played too many of their titles growing up.

 

[144_v1legacy]

Anything you could say about the Nintendo franchises could be said about any other. Unless you were saying, "wow, this game is a radical departure from the last in the series."

I'm not saying that that happens all the time, but certainly more than in most fighting games (which isn't really a fair comparison, by the nature of the genre), FPS's (which have multiple iterations within the span of a single console), and any other IP in recent memory. To say that Nintendo doesn't make enough games (which is something I've heard all the time), and then say they reuse their IP's too frequently are mutually exclusive.

 

[144_v1legacy]

"My biggest realization that something bad is going on with Nintendo came up when I was playing New Super Mario Bros Wii.

I thought it would be nice to play a throwback to classic 2D Mario games.

Yet I didn't expected that 95% of the music would be unimaginative remixes of the soundtracks of old games. Neither that I'd come to play the exact same mini-game with cards that I played on Super Mario Bros 3,and (surprise,surprise!) the card layout to BE THE EXACT SAME AS IT WAS IN SUPER MARIO BROS 3. I instinctively found my self trying the memorized layout of the cards from SUPER MARIO BROS 3 in NEW SUPER MARIO BROS WII's mini game,and surprisingly I found out that they didn't just ported the mini-game itself,but also the layouts of the way the cards are spread. So with each new 2 clicks I was getting a new item.
Except from that,the map-hub worked exactly the same way as it did on SUPER MARIO BROS 3,the worlds had the same THEMES that they had in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,6 out of 8 worlds where in the exact same order one after another as they where in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,the game featured the same bosses as SUPER MARIO BROS 3,and they acted the exact same way they did in SUPER MARIO BROS 3,and last but not least, about 40% of the final airship level on NEW SUPER MARIO BROS WII features THE EXACT SAME LEVEL DESIGN as an airship level from SUPER MARIO BROS 3. (!!!)

This isn't good obviously.

I don't wonder why Yahtzee stated in his latest review that he won't review New Super Mario Bros 2 or any other game of the franchise from now and on.

It's because if you played one of them,is like you played all of them."

Specifically, if you've played SMB3, it's startlingly similar to NSMW (which was kind of the point, it was in their demo and speeches and everything).

I wouldn't say that there's more similarity between iterations in the NSM series than in any other well-known franchise. It's a bit stagnant, but only for 1 or 2 iterations and it's not getting worse. I don't think that constitutes bitching and moaning.

And Yahtzee's recent motivation is looking for boundary-pushing, among other things, so don't use him as a reference.

Edit: I had originally quoted the wrong guy in this post, and updated it waaay later than the original posting time. Ignore.

 

[Mr. Omega]

I do think Nintendo uses Mario a little too much, but to say they aren't coming up with new ideas just based on the New Super Mario Bros games is both harsh and unfair. As one person said earlier, new IP =/= innovation and old IP =/= not innovating. Some people say spin-offs like Paper Mario and Pokemon Conquest don't count, but I like to think that that's where some major changes can be tried out without risking alienating the fans.

Furthermore, Nintendo has made a couple new IPs recently for sale on the 3DS eShop, like Pushmo and Sakura Samurai, along with the upcoming Rhythm Hunter game, but they haven't really advertised them outside of a couple websites and on the eShop itself. They haven't really made any new big AAA IPs, but really, who HAS been doing that?

I think that apart from maybe toning down the number of Mario games that come out every year and maybe putting more advertising to their eShop games, Nintendo is doing just fine. They've got enough variety among the IPs they've already got to keep things from getting stale, and they keep up a consistent high quality. That's really why people keep getting them: they're fun.

 

[Stavros Dimou]

I do think Nintendo uses Mario a little too much, but to say they aren't coming up with new ideas just based on the New Super Mario Bros games is both harsh and unfair. As one person said earlier, new IP =/= innovation and old IP =/= not innovating. Some people say spin-offs like Paper Mario and Pokemon Conquest don't count, but I like to think that that's where some major changes can be tried out without risking alienating the fans.

Furthermore, Nintendo has made a couple new IPs recently for sale on the 3DS eShop, like Pushmo and Sakura Samurai, along with the upcoming Rhythm Hunter game, but they haven't really advertised them outside of a couple websites and on the eShop itself. They haven't really made any new big AAA IPs, but really, who HAS been doing that?

I think that apart from maybe toning down the number of Mario games that come out every year and maybe putting more advertising to their eShop games, Nintendo is doing just fine. They've got enough variety among the IPs they've already got to keep things from getting stale, and they keep up a consistent high quality. That's really why people keep getting them: they're fun.

It's not bad to get too many games that have Mario in them.
What is bad is that most games that have Mario in them play the same way,have the same story,the same soundtrack but remixed,the same characters etc.. You get the point.
Once Nintendo made a difference and released a Mario game with a different story,one in which Princess Peach isn't getting kidnapped but instead fights along Mario and the rest of the bunch,to free a nation from a dictator. Yup it's Super Mario Bros 2. A great game. But then you get to hear that this wasn't really a Nintendo game,or even a Mario game,but a game of another series that had the models of the playable characters replaced with other ones.

Having Princess Peach not getting kidnapped on a new Mario game wouldn't make it bad. It would instead make it more interesting.

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

Somewhere Yahtzee is laughing his Cat-Ears off...

 

[Bromion]

The same accusation can be leveled against every other major publisher in the industry. People just beat up on Nintendo because the cool kids are doing it.

When dealing with Nintendo specifically, I think this is a situation where they really can't win. It's either going to be "They changed it, now it sucks" or "it's the same, so it sucks." I think that Zelda, for example, is pretty good at being entertaining and trying out some new things, while still holding onto that feeling of familiarity. i think we are seeing too much Mario lately though. I'm sure they're all perfectly solid games but too much of a good thing, you know? Even then, Nintendo is only giving people what they wanted. I remember a couple years back people were complaining about the lack of Mario games, so they naturally started making more. In the past when Nintendo has tried to focus on other content, All people could say was "where's Mario? Where's zelda?" and that does present a barrier to the creation of new IPs when you're customers are only asking about old franchises.

 

[Haefulz]

Nintendo does do a lot of recycling and rehashing, but if people keep eating it up, more power to them. And Nintendo is good at it too, so I don't even mind. Keep churning out awesome Pokemon games that aren't vastly different from previous entries and I promise I will keep buying them. And most of the Mario games have been really fun, even if it's a lot of the same over and over again.

Specifically, if you've played SMB3, it's startlingly similar to NSMW (which was kind of the point, it was in their demo and speeches and everything).

I wouldn't say that there's more similarity between iterations in the NSM series than in any other well-known franchise. It's a bit stagnant, but only for 1 or 2 iterations and it's not getting worse. I don't think that constitutes bitching and moaning.

And Yahtzee's recent motivation is looking for boundary-pushing, among other things, so don't use him as a reference.

You may have quoted the wrong person.

 

[Sean951]

The same accusation can be leveled against every other major publisher in the industry. People just beat up on Nintendo because the cool kids are doing it.

When dealing with Nintendo specifically, I think this is a situation where they really can't win. It's either going to be "They changed it, now it sucks" or "it's the same, so it sucks." I think that Zelda, for example, is pretty good at being entertaining and trying out some new things, while still holding onto that feeling of familiarity. i think we are seeing too much Mario lately though. I'm sure they're all perfectly solid games but too much of a good thing, you know? Even then, Nintendo is only giving people what they wanted. I remember a couple years back people were complaining about the lack of Mario games, so they naturally started making more. In the past when Nintendo has tried to focus on other content, All people could say was "where's Mario? Where's zelda?" and that does present a barrier to the creation of new IPs when you're customers are only asking about old franchises.

Super Mario games: Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2.
Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask, Windwaker and Twilight Princess, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

Yup, they sure are beating those franchises to death by releasing 5 or less feature games over the last 15 years.

 

[babinro]

Nope.

I'd prefer companies do the Big N, EA Sports, COD thing personally.

I'd rather have 15 Mario titles to choose from with only a few gems then wait on Half-Life 3 / Diablo 3 for a decade.

 

[I-Protest-I]

Hmm... I dunno... Popular things are popular for a reason.

Much as I hate McDonalds, asking if Nintendo recycles their ideas too much is like asking if Mc'Ds makes too many Big Macs.

Mc'Ds and Nintendo are both enormously successful, so they're not gonna fix it until it's officially broken.

Give it time. Nintendo still occasionally releases a Mc'rib every once in a while.

Comparing fast food to nintendo, what a terrible analogy.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Only Mario related ideas. Zelda is great because it features lots of change, and it does not release a game as often. Mario games for me are just rushed, and I have not brought one or will ever buy one since Mario galaxy.

 

[Yopaz]

Well, I have to say I am not too pleased with the New Super Mario Bros. games. New Super Mario Bros. Wii was great because it offered new things. The multiplayer and the new costumes made it an improvement on the one for DS (which I didn't like that much). Now they have made the one for DS with a little twist, the twist being mainly that it's easier and pretty much impossible to run out of lives.

The Mario games are still good platformers, but they really need to take some advice and stop calling it New. It's not mcuh different than the last one.

In the past though Nintendo were a lot better at this. There's Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 3 (I don't count 2 because it wasn't released outside Japan) which gave birth to flying, the tanooki suit, the frog suit, the hammer bro suit and all that. It also gave us the first world map in a Super Mario game. It improved the series by far.

Super Mario World came with a graphical update, the ability to replay levels, finding hidden exits and special stages. It changed the system around flying to make it require more tactics, it added the Yoshis. (skipping ahead a bit now) there's Super Mario 64 which offered 3D for the first time which was awesome on its own. It made us collect stars and gave us some puzzles to solve. It really took the series to a whole new place. There's Mario Party which was awesome. Again skipping lots here there's Super Mario Sunshine. This offered a new mechanic compared to the first 3D Mario game spraying water, using water to hover, get rocket boosts to reach new places or super speed. Over to Super Mario Galaxy which also gave us things that were new. Then they seemed to lose their creativity. They made Super Mario Galaxy 2. Also a great game, but built on the exact same premise as the first one.

Mario stopped going places with this. Rather than mixing up the formula they seemed to toss out new games of the same.

Nintendo has been very creative in the past despite using the same characters 80% of the time, but now it seems that they are learning that we'll buy anything they toss out. Virtual console comes out and we buy games we already bought there. They make a new Mario Kart game and we buy that. Now I still like Nintendo games for their quality, but I used to love them for giving me new experiences.

 

[In Search of Username]

Yeah, I gave up on Nintendo when they released the Wii. Everything they've made that I've wanted since then has been either a remake or a very similar sequel, and that's just not worth buying a console for. Plus their marketing consists entirely of gimmicks, and although the latest one (the Wii U controller) does look pretty cool, it only seems to be being used to add minor improvements to games that have already been out for ages.

Also it's not that I mind remakes that much if they have a lot of effort put into them, some of my favourite games on the Gamecube were the Resident Evil remake, the MGS remake, and even Starfox Adventures, that shameless Zelda ripoff. It's just that even if that stuff's done really well (which frankly on the Wii it simply hasn't been) you do need SOME original content to keep me interested.

 

[Bromion]

The same accusation can be leveled against every other major publisher in the industry. People just beat up on Nintendo because the cool kids are doing it.

When dealing with Nintendo specifically, I think this is a situation where they really can't win. It's either going to be "They changed it, now it sucks" or "it's the same, so it sucks." I think that Zelda, for example, is pretty good at being entertaining and trying out some new things, while still holding onto that feeling of familiarity. i think we are seeing too much Mario lately though. I'm sure they're all perfectly solid games but too much of a good thing, you know? Even then, Nintendo is only giving people what they wanted. I remember a couple years back people were complaining about the lack of Mario games, so they naturally started making more. In the past when Nintendo has tried to focus on other content, All people could say was "where's Mario? Where's zelda?" and that does present a barrier to the creation of new IPs when you're customers are only asking about old franchises.

Super Mario games: Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2.
Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask, Windwaker and Twilight Princess, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

Yup, they sure are beating those franchises to death by releasing 5 or less feature games over the last 15 years.

If you read what I actually wrote, I think it's a ridiculous complaint to make, I say so in my first sentence. and it's a bit disingenuous to limit yourself to only the super mario games when you know as well as I do that Mario extends far beyond that. they have announced or released at least four mario games within the past year, I just worry that this could turn into over exposure.

However, you do raise an excellent point that I wish more people would recognize. When it comes to series like zelda, we only see a release every four or five years and I think that's a good model to follow.

 

[aguspal]

Honestly...

Yeah. Nintendo is starting to get a bit repetitive with their games. I like them, but its getting a bit old IMO. But people like it that way, let it be. They can do both the old and the new stuff at once, its perfectly fine!

 

[Sean951]

The same accusation can be leveled against every other major publisher in the industry. People just beat up on Nintendo because the cool kids are doing it.

When dealing with Nintendo specifically, I think this is a situation where they really can't win. It's either going to be "They changed it, now it sucks" or "it's the same, so it sucks." I think that Zelda, for example, is pretty good at being entertaining and trying out some new things, while still holding onto that feeling of familiarity. i think we are seeing too much Mario lately though. I'm sure they're all perfectly solid games but too much of a good thing, you know? Even then, Nintendo is only giving people what they wanted. I remember a couple years back people were complaining about the lack of Mario games, so they naturally started making more. In the past when Nintendo has tried to focus on other content, All people could say was "where's Mario? Where's zelda?" and that does present a barrier to the creation of new IPs when you're customers are only asking about old franchises.

Super Mario games: Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2.
Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majoras Mask, Windwaker and Twilight Princess, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

Yup, they sure are beating those franchises to death by releasing 5 or less feature games over the last 15 years.

If you read what I actually wrote, I think it's a ridiculous complaint to make, I say so in my first sentence. and it's a bit disingenuous to limit yourself to only the super mario games when you know as well as I do that Mario extends far beyond that. they have announced or released at least four mario games within the past year, I just worry that this could turn into over exposure.

However, you do raise an excellent point that I wish more people would recognize. When it comes to series like zelda, we only see a release every four or five years and I think that's a good model to follow.

Mario is a mascot so I give him a pass on the Mario Golf etc titles. He also has the largest cast of well known characters, so having him for Mario Party just makes sense. Using Zelda characters would just seem... off. There is a reason Link is only on the Smash Brothers series and not Mario Kart or Mario Party. I'm willing to bet if Microsoft or Sony actually HAD a mascot character, they would be doing the same thing. I mean, you could count the Paper Mario series or the puzzle games, but they are completely different genres and have totally different play styles. So counting Super Mario as the continuation of the old Mario titles just makes sense to me.

I also may have quoted the wrong person.

 

[Jfswift]

I don't mind as long as the challenge, theme and puzzles are new. Someone on here pointed out how Zelda games, although similar always presented some new idea or mechanic, enough to keep it fresh.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I think common logic doesn't really apply much to Nintendo.

I think it was actually Donkey Kong that I've first seen in a local restaurant. If I remember correctly, my first hand-held LCD dual-screen experience was Donkey Kong. I think one of my favourite games on Super Nintendo was Donkey Kong... and that's already, what, 15 years of my life? Oh, wow.

No, I think Nintendo is required to remake their well-known IPs, for us old farts and for the kids of now and the kids of the future.

The Wii sort of eventually reduced my trust in Nintendo to a slightly above zero, because all of a sudden it wasn't actually improving on its IP's, it was doodling around with silly motion-based input methods. Those are fun for about fifteen minutes after unpacking and booting the game for the first time, but they get old really, really fast.

But I think Nintendo has already kinda realized that.