Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

[dragonswarrior]

A huge problem here of course is how do you define abuse. Ive seen several people going with the whole "is spanking abuse?" debate in this thread, and the answer of course is people aren't sure yet.

Scientifically, they have proven that even just regular old spankings can lead to psychological trauma and damage to the kid. Nothing that would be excessive by today's social and moral standards, but according to science yes. Yes it is causing serious, sometimes permanent, damage.

Secondly, I'm guessing most of us have been through the spanking point at sometime in our lives. I want you to try and reach back and remember how fucking awful it was. If you were like most people, you probably screamed and fought and did everything in your power (as little as that was) to avoid being hit by your parents. I don't want to hear "Oh well I learned my lesson." because there are plenty of other ways to teach that lesson that might take longer but don't result in trauma. Yes, it is traumatizing. And yes, you are fine today, sure, but you have to realize that that is also what you tell yourself every day so you can keep your confidence in yourself and your world view.

So yea, I'm on the side of spanking is abuse. And yes, I think that what the gentleman did by shooting his daughters laptop is excessive and will in the long run do more harm than good.

His daughter is also a spoiled brat. But who the hell made her one in the first place? He came on that video talking about how he just blew 130 bucks to upgrade her laptop... and then he gets upset when she feels entitled? C'mon man, address the actual issues at hand, don't just pop a cap in the girls electronics because you never got around to teaching her she wasn't the center of the universe.

 

[karcentric]

Kids need discipline. A light clip behind the ear isn't bad. Belting them with a belt or a wooden spoon might be a little over the top.

 

[renegade7]

Psychologically speaking, reinforcement (both positive and negative) is more effective than punishment. It gives something to work for, rather than something to fear.

Also, no pissed off 15 year old girl is ever going to respect the guy who shot her laptop, which by the sound of it was her main source of entertainment/communication. No, I'll bet you quite a bit of money that now all she's 'learned' is that her dad is a wingnut and she has to work harder to hide stuff from him.

You see, it's easier to hide your wrongdoings to avoid punishment (ESPECIALLY if you're a teenager, and your disciplinarians are your parents whom you've had a dozen+ years to learn to manipulate) than to actually modify the behavior.

 

[soes757]

If you let your children run around and do anything they like the whole world ends up like IGN.
That or the zombie apocalypse, you can have your pick, same thing really.
All jokes aside, if you don't punish children they end up like spoiled brats who kill a guy for no reason other than they didn't do what they wanted.

 

[Final First]

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.


As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

I have to stop you right there and say that I was spanked as a kid and knew many other kids whom never had corporal punishment. One was a jerk and one literally tried to stab is mother among other things. The ones like me who were punished when doing something really wrong almost never did anything wrong because of it.

 

[Rad Party God]

*sigh* I can't see this thread go well in the next few hours.

I'm not against punishing kids, what I don't tolerate, is the way some people choose to do so.

It's not the fact that he shot her laptop, it's the way he did it. I don't care if he was responsible at shooting the thing, that's not the point.

Shooting her property in front of millions is not what I'd consider "good parenting".

 

[manic_depressive13]

An example of a time of spanking, when my child was attempting to place a metal object into the light fixture. I imedietly removed said item and gave them a firm tap to the rear, informing them of what they had done wrong and of the consequences that could have occured. They associated the mild pain I had delivered to the pain they could have recieved more heavily if they had done the previous action, and have since not touched the fixture or attempted to place anything inside.

How old was your child when this happened? Do you really think it was the spank that drove the point home, so to speak, or do you think when the kid realised it might kill them they decided they didn't want to do that after all? In terms of spanking, I don't think we should be asking "Is it always harmful?". Rather, we should be asking "Is it ever necessary?"

 

[Final First]

Spanking on the bottom alone is not bad at all, but resorting to flat out beating a child is abuse. However, as most seem to forget, one can teach a child and still use the spanking method of punishment. It's not like all of those who spank their child just let them go and do whatever after spanking them. They tell them why what they did was wrong so the child has two reasons why not to do it again, 1: It's wrong and 2: You'll get spanked again.

Also and for those saying that the use of firearms in that video was scary, you're missing the point. He is not going to harm his daughter, he just did that to get a point across: he would rather destroy the laptop with a gun than give it to his daughter. He was not threatening her at all...

Sorry for the off topic last paragraph but I just had to put my two cents in.

 

[Instant K4rma]

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.


As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

I have to stop you right there and say that I was spanked as a kid and knew many other kids whom never had corporal punishment. One was a jerk and one literally tried to stab is mother among other things. The ones like me who were punished when doing something really wrong almost never did anything wrong because of it.

Whether or not an attempted murder is a consequence of a lack of spanking is a long stretch, to say the least. I know people who have been spanked that grew up to be great people, and I know people that were spanked that are currently in jail. Saying "This person wasn't spanked and is now a convict" presents a pretty vague argument.

I'm not saying that people that are spanked grow up to be bad people, and I'm not trying to offend anyone's parents/parenting. That's not what I'm getting at. I just don't find it to be a good approach to parenting, and that's my opinion. My brother and I were not spanked, and we're doing alright so far (still early, mind you).

I personally view it as beating a child, and I just can't see myself getting behind that.

Sorry.

 

[Dragonpit]

It actually depends on the level of severity of the punishment with me. Some things are okay, and some things are not okay. At the very least, something must be done to discourage bad behavior and instill a certain amount of discipline. The punishments I received as a child ranged from being spanked to being forced to stand in a corner of a while. I never felt it was wrong or undeserved, but then, I was a child.

Shooting up a laptop? That's not abuse. It's certainly overkill (he should've at least taken it away and hid it or something. At least that way, it could've been returned as a form of reward), but I can't see it being abusive. Spanking? After a certain age, yeah, I can see that. Otherwise, I doubt most children are going to be traumatized. Especially since you're not trying to knock the kid senseless or shatter bones or cause contushions (sp?). Now those are steps too far.

Abuse is about doing damage, physical or emotional. Punishment is not. It's about lessons, and there are right and wrong ways of teaching them. The question is: if you truly think spanking and the such are wrong, then what are you doing to do in the regard of punishment instead?

 

[Bat Vader]

If the parent is beating the utter crap out of their child/teenager than yes I would consider that abuse. If the parent grounds their child/teenager and takes away privileges like the computer, TV, music, ETC than no I would not consider it abuse.

 

[Final First]

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.


As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

I have to stop you right there and say that I was spanked as a kid and knew many other kids whom never had corporal punishment. One was a jerk and one literally tried to stab is mother among other things. The ones like me who were punished when doing something really wrong almost never did anything wrong because of it.

Whether or not an attempted murder is a consequence of a lack of spanking is a long stretch, to say the least. I know people who have been spanked that grew up to be great people, and I know people that were spanked that are currently in jail. Saying "This person wasn't spanked and is now a convict" presents a pretty vague argument.

I'm not saying that people that are spanked grow up to be bad people, and I'm not trying to offend anyone's parents/parenting. That's not what I'm getting at. I just don't find it to be a good approach to parenting, and that's my opinion. My brother and I were not spanked, and we're doing alright so far (still early, mind you).

I personally view it as beating a child, and I just can't see myself getting behind that.

Sorry.

I know that jumping to assumptions like this is inefficient and you're right. I should have noted that this was just a guess going by experience and witnessing many people who did not get such punishments and became spoiled and almost - murderers.

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it. That never makes any sense to me.


As for the dad putting a few rounds into his daughters laptop? It may have been a tad dramatic, but she deserved it, in my opinion. I feel punishment by negative reinforcement (taking away privileges, grounding, etc) isn't abuse, it's sensible parenting.

All my opinion, of course. I'm no parent, so this is easy for me to say.

I have to stop you right there and say that I was spanked as a kid and knew many other kids whom never had corporal punishment. One was a jerk and one literally tried to stab is mother among other things. The ones like me who were punished when doing something really wrong almost never did anything wrong because of it.

The problem with your argument is that you're making assumptions about the causes. You have, what, people with a couple decades of life experiences? And you're saying that you somehow are able to isolate all variables in their lives and determine that corporal punishment or lack thereof was the cause of their later behavior? Quite frankly trying to look at a few cases and determine that you know the cause is just downright illogical.

I know it is illogical to say I know for a fact that I am right, I'm just making an actual guess based on proof despite if that proof may be false. Though one of those people I speak of that are spoiled are one of my relatives so I know how they were raised and their experiences.

 

[Random Fella]

A smack on the bottom is the best tool a parent can use to discipline their child in my opinion.
I got it, and I turned out to be pretty good, not boasting, just saying it taught me to respect my parents and behave well.
Although where I live now (New Zealand) They released a bill making it illegal, which is just foolish as you're punishing good parents who need to teach their kid's a lesson, not the ones who beat their children, because that was already illegal.
I am highly against discipline above the smack on the bum though, no bruises, injuries or major pain should be caused from a parent to their child.

 

[Signa]

I've never understood spanking. "Hey, Timmy was misbehaving today. Let's beat the kid into submission." It's been proven to have no positive effect, yet people still do it.

Uh, proven? Wanna back that up there bud? I probably wouldn't believe you anyway because of personal experience, but I'd like to know who is making such outrageous claims.

 

[Evilpigeon]

Punishment is the wrong way of looking at things.

The whole aim of parenting is to bring your child up to be as happy, well adjusted and successful as possible. Punishment, especially as depicted in that video is vindictive and off-message. It was primarily revenge and not an attempt to alter the child's behaviour (hence why it was put up online for other people to see, hell he specifically mentions in the video that his daughter wasn't going to be allowed to see it.)

The idea of parenting is to funnel your children away from things dangerous or self-destructive and towards things that are beneficial. Punishing people for things and banning things are probably the least effective ways to get something to cease long-term. Punishment is used so much in the law because law-breakers pose a threat to everyone else, when there is no threat it's far more important to make people understand the impact of their actions and why they shouldn't do it, rather than to exact retribution.

Parenting is kinda like brainwashing people so that they work with society

Also, for the record considering the number of people who seem to be proudly claiming to have turned out okay after being hit as children. I've never been hit by my parents in my life and I've turned out perfectly well ^.^

 

[3 legged goat]

I am going to take a wild guess and say that the people who say this have never had kids or been around rowdy kids.