Is punishing a kid consider abuse?

[EternalFacepalm]

Double post, nevermind.

 

[Final First]

What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

The parent is beating the child, that's kind of the point of spanking. Uhm.

OT: Shooting a laptop isn't abuse, it's bad use of a deadly firearm. His gun license should be revoked.

I would love to know how it is "bad use of a deadly firearm". Please tell. As far as I could tell, he was using it responsibly. Also, I don't know much about firearms, but according to some people in other threads, the gun and rounds he was using aren't all that deadly.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

The parent is beating the child, that's kind of the point of spanking. Uhm.

OT: Shooting a laptop isn't abuse, it's bad use of a deadly firearm. His gun license should be revoked.

I would love to know how it is "bad use of a deadly firearm". Please tell. As far as I could tell, he was using it responsibly. Also, I don't know much about firearms, but according to some people in other threads, the gun and rounds he was using aren't all that deadly.

Using a deadly weapon to fire a laptop is bad use. A gun is a last resort, not a toy to be used at will.

 

[Final First]

So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

My aunt and uncle have this naughty corner system going on where they'll make their kids sit in the corner for like ten minutes to think about what they did. Basically they do what school teachers do. It doesn't work, each of their kids are sent there like 12 times a day and they never come out learning anything. They realise the system is a bust and they know that they don't face any real repercussions so they continue to be the most annoying little dickheads I've ever seen.

The kinds of people who don't think punishing children is okay are the kinds of people who create little morons like my cousins; say what you will but punishment is absolutely necessary. Even spanking is fine as long as you don't get super into it and do it more than necessary.

I wasnt spanked, I turned out fine, my sister wasnt spanked, she turned out fine. My parents werent spanked, they turned out fine, my grandparents werent spanked (Amazingly) They turned out fine, my cousins werent spanked, they turned out fine. My brother wasnt spanked either, his a cool guy. Spanking is illigal in Denmark/Sweeden and kids here are pretty well behaved, from America and England where it aint illigal I meet all theese sort of brats on the internet, now im not gonna say its because physical punishment is legal, maybe its something to do with culture, or maybe im just really, really lucky to have met very few brats irl. Personal experience right there, not gonna spank my kids thats for sure.

You most likely see many American brats because here, despite spanking being legal in most of the country, quite a few parents don't seem to spank. The modern culture among our youth today is that one must either give extremely light punishments like a few minutes on time out or going to the corner of the room, or do nothing at all. I'm not going to go so far as to say every case of a child "brat" is because of the lack of spanking or punishment, but it has to be the case for at least some.

 

[boyvirgo666]

Dealing in absolutes, the thread?
How about "punishing a child excessively is abuse".

If you harm your child for whatever reason (Well, unless it's a spontaneous strike), it's abuse. It is not, however, abuse to give your child a reasonable grounding when they've done something stupid.
I personally don't believe that kind of parenting accomplishes anything though, so I don't approve of it in any case.
Grounding can of course also be called abuse if it is done excessively. You know, such as grounding your daughter for two years for venting and generally acting a like a stereotypical bratty teenager.

My mother hit me when I messed up and look at the well balanced reasonable adult i am today. The issue is that scale is important. Hitting your kid is not abuse. Doing it for no reason or going obviously too far is another issue. Never close fist punch your child but 5 across the eyes slapping is fine as long as they deserve it.

Grounding is all well and good sometimes but sometimes it doesnt cut the mustard as they say. Take away toys? big deal they probably have more or they know that the toys will come back eventually. But a quick slap is a direct and efficient punishment that shows them you mean business.

Some people may not agree with that man shooting his daughters laptop but he had already threatened her with such punishment, he followed through and did what he promised and for that he should be applauded. Very few parents these days actually dowhat they threaten to do because they are afraid of some kind of idiotic punishment from the people around them. This man did the most acceptable thing he could have done. He followed through and made sure his daughter was publically shown what would happen if she broke his rules and insulted him and his family. He did the same thing she did and showed her that it worked both ways. Sure it was an expensive punishment but were not talking about his cost efficiency.

People who jump on others for punishing their own children annoy me because its a completely detached view of the situation. Who are you to judge them? If what they are doing isnt legally abuse and isnt causing tangible long term hard then you have no place to judge them...actually take that back you never have room to judge them. Thats for a court to do.

 

[boyvirgo666]

Dealing in absolutes, the thread?
How about "punishing a child excessively is abuse".

If you harm your child for whatever reason (Well, unless it's a spontaneous strike), it's abuse. It is not, however, abuse to give your child a reasonable grounding when they've done something stupid.
I personally don't believe that kind of parenting accomplishes anything though, so I don't approve of it in any case.
Grounding can of course also be called abuse if it is done excessively. You know, such as grounding your daughter for two years for venting and generally acting a like a stereotypical bratty teenager.

My mother hit me when I messed up and look at the well balanced reasonable adult i am today. The issue is that scale is important. Hitting your kid is not abuse. Doing it for no reason or going obviously too far is another issue. Never close fist punch your child but 5 across the eyes slapping is fine as long as they deserve it.

Grounding is all well and good sometimes but sometimes it doesnt cut the mustard as they say. Take away toys? big deal they probably have more or they know that the toys will come back eventually. But a quick slap is a direct and efficient punishment that shows them you mean business.

Some people may not agree with that man shooting his daughters laptop but he had already threatened her with such punishment, he followed through and did what he promised and for that he should be applauded. Very few parents these days actually dowhat they threaten to do because they are afraid of some kind of idiotic punishment from the people around them. This man did the most acceptable thing he could have done. He followed through and made sure his daughter was publically shown what would happen if she broke his rules and insulted him and his family. He did the same thing she did and showed her that it worked both ways. Sure it was an expensive punishment but were not talking about his cost efficiency.

People who jump on others for punishing their own children annoy me because its a completely detached view of the situation. Who are you to judge them? If what they are doing isnt legally abuse and isnt causing tangible long term hard then you have no place to judge them...actually take that back you never have room to judge them. Thats for a court to do.

 

[Final First]

What do you mean with punishing a kid?

Is that included/exclude hitting a child? cause I would see that as abuse.

spanking is abuse? Really?

Yeah... You're hitting somebody...

...strongly disagree. It isn't abuse, nobody is beating anybody else

The parent is beating the child, that's kind of the point of spanking. Uhm.

OT: Shooting a laptop isn't abuse, it's bad use of a deadly firearm. His gun license should be revoked.

I would love to know how it is "bad use of a deadly firearm". Please tell. As far as I could tell, he was using it responsibly. Also, I don't know much about firearms, but according to some people in other threads, the gun and rounds he was using aren't all that deadly.

Using a deadly weapon to fire a laptop is bad use. A gun is a last resort, not a toy to be used at will.

First of all it was a last resort. He warned his daughter before when she did a similar thing. Also you're dodging the fact that it wasn't a lethal gun since he was using non-lethal ammunition (at least that's what others have said). And you also dodged the question by not giving a reason for your opinion as I asked. I just want to know, I don't want to start an argument.

Also, as I said on another thread before, he was not using it to threaten his daughter that she would be in the laptop's position if she did it again. He was giving a point; and that point was that he would rather shoot the laptop he spent money on and put so much work into than let her have it.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

First of all it was a last resort. He warned his daughter before when she did a similar thing. Also you're dodging the fact that it wasn't a lethal gun since he was using non-lethal ammunition (at least that's what others have said). And you also dodged the question by not giving a reason for your opinion as I asked. I just want to know, I don't want to start an argument.

Also, as I said on another thread before, he was not using it to threaten his daughter that she would be in the laptop's position if she did it again. He was giving a point; and that point was that he would rather shoot the laptop he spent money on and put so much work into than let her have it.

I don't know about you, but using a gun seems threatening. Also, by saying "last resort", I meant "last resort" as in your life, not your daughter's essentially normal behaviour.

Also, it definitely wasn't a last resort. For a daughter rebelling, which is extremely normal, using a gun to shoot your laptop to pieces is not a last resort.

Besides, if he was going to destroy it, he could've done it in far less threatening ways. I'd say stomping it would probably do just as much, but that's irrelevant.

Also, I think I reasoned my opinion earlier: it's a lethal weapon, not a toy.

 

[Final First]

First of all it was a last resort. He warned his daughter before when she did a similar thing. Also you're dodging the fact that it wasn't a lethal gun since he was using non-lethal ammunition (at least that's what others have said). And you also dodged the question by not giving a reason for your opinion as I asked. I just want to know, I don't want to start an argument.

Also, as I said on another thread before, he was not using it to threaten his daughter that she would be in the laptop's position if she did it again. He was giving a point; and that point was that he would rather shoot the laptop he spent money on and put so much work into than let her have it.

I don't know about you, but using a gun seems threatening. Also, by saying "last resort", I meant "last resort" as in your life, not your daughter's essentially normal behaviour.

Also, it definitely wasn't a last resort. For a daughter rebelling, which is extremely normal, using a gun to shoot your laptop to pieces is not a last resort.

Besides, if he was going to destroy it, he could've done it in far less threatening ways. I'd say stomping it would probably do just as much, but that's irrelevant.

Also, I think I reasoned my opinion earlier: it's a lethal weapon, not a toy.

Although I agree with you to a degree, you must remember your foot can be a lethal weapon too, so the same could be said about stomping on it with that logic. Also, if parents would be more strict and did this (assuming that it worked for this particular father), there is a possibility of less and less rebellious teens. Though everyone shooting laptops might be a problem, it shouldn't be done all the time I have to admit.

 

[FamoFunk]

Punishing a child but taking away TV, laptop, being grounded/time out etc. is not abuse. It's no where near, it's discipline and the consequence of bad behaviour.

Hitting/smacking/spanking is abuse because, well, it's obvious, physically attacking someone is abuse. Hitting a child is the same as hitting a Woman or a Man, sadly a parent wouldn't get arrested like a Man would for slapping his Wife, or a Man hitting another in a pub.

A good way to avoid falling into abusive patterns is to never discipline your kids when you are angry.

discipline should never be emotional.

Well said pg 1 Sir.

 

[orangeban]

You shouldn't hit kids, and that means no caning, beating or spanking. Children should be educated about what they did. If you hit a child because they stole something, the child learns that they shouldn't steal things and then get caught. If you teach a kid why stealing is morally wrong, then they learn that they shouldn't steal at all.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Although I agree with you to a degree, you must remember your foot can be a lethal weapon too, so the same could be said about stomping on it with that logic. Also, if parents would be more strict and did this (assuming that it worked for this particular father), there is a possibility of less and less rebellious teens. Though everyone shooting laptops might be a problem, it shouldn't be done all the time I have to admit.

Stomping isn't crafted to be a lethal weapon, however. A gun is - a gun's only use is as a weapon, your foot is not.

Also, rebellion isn't inherently bad. Quenching all liberality isn't healthy for anyone - it's how new ideas are formed. Of course, this kind of petty rebellion is silly, but it's both completely normal and sets a foundation for later, perhaps more mature rebellion.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'd suggest that, while of course there's extremes, I'd not advocate prolonged spankings or use of implements to beat a child, my rule, if I had to have one, would be that if you're delivering corporal punishment in a steady and controlled manner, without the intent of violence, and immediately after the reason for the punishment, then it's ok.

If you have a child who won't respond to being talked to, or yelled at, or being denied luxuries, and they still don't look when crossing the road, next time any potential child of mine did it, I'd feel fine about delivering some 'physical education' to their behind in order to enforce an important rule about road safety.

A stinging bottom for a few minutes hurts less than a truck to the face.

I think I'm in agreement with most that it should not be extreme, it should not be done in anger, and should be a last resort when the child does not respond to anything else.

If you find you're using spanking a lot, you should probably seek assistance in gaining respect and authority from your child.

 

[BrassButtons]

because generally speaking it doesn't leave scars like in the photo I showed you.

So if something isn't a punch to the face and doesn't leave scars, it's not abuse?

Using a deadly weapon to fire a laptop is bad use. A gun is a last resort, not a toy to be used at will.

When the gun is being fired at a person (or anywhere it has a reasonable chance of hitting someone) then yes, it should be a last resort. This is so that people are not hurt or killed unnecessarily. He was target shooting. I'm not sure the idea of "last resort" applies in that situation.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Punishing a kid isn't the same as beating someone, it just isn't. Though some forms of punishment can be considered such. It can range from soap in the mouth to locking them in a cage. Some are forms of opinion, going to bed without supper, banning from the outside world, etc can all be considered abuse to some people. In law its generally anything that harms the child.

 

[RagTagBand]

Well, beyond the ridiculous, stupid, STUPID strawman of the original Post. No Punishing your child isn't abuse, but the Example the OP used is pretty abusive.

Maybe not physically abusive, but it sure is emotionally/mentally.

 

[Sexy Devil]

So, I've been following another thread wherein the original poster argued that Tommy Jordan, the man who shot up his daughter's laptop, is abusing his daughter. Disturbingly, I found that some people had the opinion punishing a child for doing something wrong is considered a form of abuse. Some even going as far as suggesting punishing a child for doing something wrong should be considered on the same level as beating a wife.

So, Escapist, do you think punishing a child is, or should be, considered abuse?

My aunt and uncle have this naughty corner system going on where they'll make their kids sit in the corner for like ten minutes to think about what they did. Basically they do what school teachers do. It doesn't work, each of their kids are sent there like 12 times a day and they never come out learning anything. They realise the system is a bust and they know that they don't face any real repercussions so they continue to be the most annoying little dickheads I've ever seen.

The kinds of people who don't think punishing children is okay are the kinds of people who create little morons like my cousins; say what you will but punishment is absolutely necessary. Even spanking is fine as long as you don't get super into it and do it more than necessary.

I wasnt spanked, I turned out fine, my sister wasnt spanked, she turned out fine. My parents werent spanked, they turned out fine, my grandparents werent spanked (Amazingly) They turned out fine, my cousins werent spanked, they turned out fine. My brother wasnt spanked either, his a cool guy. Spanking is illigal in Denmark/Sweeden and kids here are pretty well behaved, from America and England where it aint illigal I meet all theese sort of brats on the internet, now im not gonna say its because physical punishment is legal, maybe its something to do with culture, or maybe im just really, really lucky to have met very few brats irl. Personal experience right there, not gonna spank my kids thats for sure.

Wow, I think you made your point the first time!

Anyway as I said I meant punishment in general since that's what this thread is about. Personally I was only spanked like twice and I've never been grounded so it's not just a Sweden thing. Apparently I was so easily hypnotised by the Wiggles from ages one to three that it was never actually necessary. I do firmly believe that if you can avoid spanking then you should, but some kids just can't be tamed and that's where spanking comes into play.

I'm not saying that whenever a kid misbehaves you go to town on their ass. I'm saying that if they misbehave and you yell at them and it doesn't work. And if you take away privileges and it doesn't work. And if you ground them and it doesn't work. And if you exhaust all options and the kid is still being a little moron, then that's when you give them a good enough spank to send the message, while not overdoing it. And if that doesn't work then get some antidepressants to keep the inevitable suicidal thoughts at bay, I guess.

 

[Angry_squirrel]

I would say any kind of physical punishment is abuse. That's not to say a parent who occasionally smacks their child is an abuser, but I would say smacking a child is abuse, just mild abuse. No human being should be allowed to force harm upon another.

He wasn't abusing his daughter, but he was demonstrating a lack of understanding of the responsibilities a gun carries. A gun is a dangerous weapon, and should only ever be used for ones protection.

Not too mention the fact that it's wasteful, breaking an expensive object for the sake of some petty argument.

 

[soes757]

If you let your children run around and do anything they like the whole world ends up like IGN.
That or the zombie apocalypse, you can have your pick, same thing really.
All jokes aside, if you don't punish children they end up like spoiled brats who kill a guy for no reason other than they didn't do what they wanted.

What? That is utter garbage. No, they will not go running around killing people, that's the most absurd idea on the matter I've seen yet. There is utterly nothing to support that idea.

Hyperbole, dude, don't be so literal.

 

[BlueMage]

You know, I was a bit of a brat one time as a child. My mother gave me three fingers across the face. It kept me quiet for the next six hours because *GASP* the indignity! Those six hours were enough time for me to realise, I'd fucked up and I'd best apologise for my actions.

Best damned thing she could've done in that situation. Would that more parents would do that.

A spank, a slap - these things are not abuse. Punching, kicking, whipping with a kettle cord - these things are. Do we see the difference yet? Are we able to grasp the concept of degree?