Is rap music detrimental to society?

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Ares Tyr

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The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639420 said:
Ares Tyr post=18.68737.639313 said:
(said alot of stuff which will just take up alot of space if I re-post it, look up to see it
I stand by my original statement, though from what you wrote (and may I say there is quite a big chunk of words up there) I have deciphered that you are not a listener of the type of Rap music I was refering to, I'm sure there are many examples of rap music that would come across as inteligent. But what I was refering to was the mainstream modern rap music that plauges our radio (and our music television) so much. It is utter crap, However I also think that almost all modern rock/indie/emo/punk/pop/hip-hop music is all pretty shit as well.
"Bring me my Jethro Tull CD Hodges" (my Butler) "I wish to revel in the sounds of a bygone age"
Then I'd agree with you, because not only is that stuff polluting the radio, but also ruining the general public's opinion of Hip Hop. If stuff like that keeps coming out, people will continue to lose respect for the genre. Its like if every game that came out was just a slaughter-fest of gore and killing old ladies. Sure, they can exist, but if thats all was put out and made popular, the general public would find gaming to be a very unintelligent and appauling form of entertainment, let alone an art form.

Believe it or not, I love all music. I'm actually listening to Deathcore (Hardcore Punk/Death Metal) as I type this.
 

stompy

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Ivoryagent post=18.68737.638605 said:
HSIAMetalKing post=18.68737.638585 said:
No, it's not. Stupid people are detrimental to society.
And the difference between that and rap is...
Depends what kind of rap. Generally, though, I agree with you.
 

Arcticflame

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Ares Tyr post=18.68737.639048 said:
Alright. Now, first, if you cannot see the skill and intellegience of the second and third verses, then you either a.) have severe onset Downes Syndrome, b.) have recently recieved blunt trauma to the head, or c.) are just a prick.
...I fail to see where it is so amazing.
Don't insult my intelligence through labelling me as a prick, I honestly think those lyrics are fairly moronic.
 

Ares Tyr

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639431 said:
Ares Tyr post=18.68737.639048 said:
Alright. Now, first, if you cannot see the skill and intellegience of the second and third verses, then you either a.) have severe onset Downes Syndrome, b.) have recently recieved blunt trauma to the head, or c.) are just a prick.
...I fail to see where it is so amazing.
Don't insult my intelligence through labelling me as a prick, I honestly think those lyrics are fairly moronic.
Then please elaborate to me why you find them so unintelligent. Maybe give me an example of what you find to be intelligent lyrics.
 

The Iron Ninja

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639438 said:
The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639436 said:
...I fail to see where it is so amazing.

Don't insult my intelligence.
I insult your intelligence (spits)
*GASP* I challenge you to a duel!
Have at thee sir, the duel shall take place at... wait what time zone are you in?

Never mind the small details, we fight now!
-Takes twenty paces backwards-
Hey, where did you go?
 

Arcticflame

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The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639442 said:
Arcticflame post=18.68737.639438 said:
The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639436 said:
...I fail to see where it is so amazing.

Don't insult my intelligence.
I insult your intelligence (spits)
*GASP* I challenge you to a duel!
Have at thee sir, the duel shall take place at... wait what time zone are you in?

Never mind the small details, we fight now!
-Takes twenty paces backwards-
Hey, where did you go?
*backstab*
Oooh dear.. you got blood on my suit!
 

The Iron Ninja

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639445 said:
The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639442 said:
Arcticflame post=18.68737.639438 said:
The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639436 said:
...I fail to see where it is so amazing.

Don't insult my intelligence.
I insult your intelligence (spits)
*GASP* I challenge you to a duel!
Have at thee sir, the duel shall take place at... wait what time zone are you in?

Never mind the small details, we fight now!
-Takes twenty paces backwards-
Hey, where did you go?
*backstab*
Oooh dear.. you got blood on my suit!
You Cur, your people will pay for this treachery, with blood, fountains and fountains of blood (thats right, two whole fountains, bet you're shaking in your little cotton boots right about now)

Also the man you stabbed was a cleverly disguised patsy that I used to distract you from my
Killing sword strike at the back of your neck, blood is spurting from your jugular as i type
 

The Iron Ninja

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Maybe he's getting the lyrics you wanted now (don't ask me how a dead person could do that)
Edit: Sorry for the double post
 

Arcticflame

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The only possible reading I can take from it is that they are asserting other rap is crap, their rap is good. But that doesn't change the fact that that rap there is still no better than a 10 year old rhyming words together.

It doesn't draw upon universal themes, any deep issues, moral topics, it doesn't punctuate it's points through provoking imagination, it simply whacks together words which sound good together.


This is not to say songs need to, but when all you have is a beat and faint instruments, you need to have something else to drive your music.


Condensed down, none of those sentences are especially bright. Compared with good poetry or a good speech, it is terrible, but because it has a beat to it, suddenly it's ok?

Not that rap music is detrimental to society because of that, I don't think rap music is detrimental to society. So I guess I disagree rap music is bad for society, but think rap music is stupid itself (depending on your definition of rap music).

The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639458 said:
Maybe he's getting the lyrics you wanted now (don't ask me how a dead person could do that)
Edit: Sorry for the double post
I have a respawn timer, I had to wait.
 

Reaperman Wompa

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639484 said:
The only possible reading I can take from it is that they are asserting other rap is crap, their rap is good. But that doesn't change the fact that that rap there is still no better than a 10 year old rhyming words together.

It doesn't draw upon universal themes, any deep issues, moral topics, it doesn't punctuate it's points through provoking imagination, it simply whacks together words which sound good together.


This is not to say songs need to, but when all you have is a beat and faint instruments, you need to have something else to drive your music.


Condensed down, none of those sentences are especially bright. Compared with good poetry or a good speech, it is terrible, but because it has a beat to it, suddenly it's ok?
only if there's meaning to it, and thats the only rap thats getting defended.
 

The Iron Ninja

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To Artic Flame:
Aren't you supposed to have some kind of proof that other types of music can have more intelligent lyrics. On a similar note, what are you doing here? I thought I killed you.
There is evil work being done here, I can smell it (don't ask me how I know the smell, because I don't know either)

Edit: And Ten year olds rhyming words together is awesome, not to mention endearing.
 

Arcticflame

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The Iron Ninja post=18.68737.639488 said:
To Artic Flame:
Aren't you supposed to have some kind of proof that other types of music can have more intelligent lyrics. On a similar note, what are you doing here? I thought I killed you.
I have already told you my belief on that, other music doesn't necessarily require intelligent lyrics as you listen to the music and Rhythm, the vocals in essence are just another instrument.

Rap music has nothing but rhythm and lyrics. That's it.

That is why I say hip hop and rap is only good when it has good music to back it up OR intelligent lyrics, as without that, it is just a terrible poem.
 

Ares Tyr

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639484 said:
The only possible reading I can take from it is that they are asserting other rap is crap, their rap is good. But that doesn't change the fact that that rap there is still no better than a 10 year old rhyming words together.

It doesn't draw upon universal themes, any deep issues, moral topics, it doesn't punctuate it's points through provoking imagination, it simply whacks together words which sound good together.


This is not to say songs need to, but when all you have is a beat and faint instruments, you need to have something else to drive your music.


Condensed down, none of those sentences are especially bright. Compared with good poetry or a good speech, it is terrible, but because it has a beat to it, suddenly it's ok?

Not that rap music is detrimental to society because of that, I don't think rap music is detrimental to society. So I guess I disagree rap music is bad for society, but think rap music is stupid itself (depending on your definition of rap music).
Well, this particular song is one of those "I'm going to show you how good I am at rapping" songs, so they just use weird metaphors and language to show how deep their vocabulary is. Hip Hop is a competitive genre, where rappers are constantly having "hypothetical battles" with invisible opponents to show and remind people of how good they are at rapping and using lyrics. Its part of the fun of the genre, like a guitar solo. A solo has no meaning, it just shows the skill of the guitarist. The same goes for songs like that.

However, as for story-line songs, there's plenty:

"Brenda's got a Baby
Brenda's got a Baby

I hear Brenda's got a baby
But, Brenda's barely got a brain
A damn shame
Tha girl can hardly spell her name
That's not our problem,
That's up to Brenda's family
Well let me show you how it affects the whole community

Now Brenda never really knew her mom
And her dad was a junky
Puttin' death into his arms, it's sad
Cause I bet Brenda doesn't even know
Just cause your in the ghetto doesn't mean you can't grow
But oh, that's a thought, my own revelation
Do whatever it takes to resist the temptation

Now Brenda got herself a boyfriend
Her boyfriend was her cousin,
Now lets watch the joy end
She tried to hide her pregnancy,
From her family
Who didn't really care to see,
Or give a damn if she
Went out and had a church of kids
As long as when the check came they got first dibs

Now Brendas belly's gettin bigger
But no one seems to notice any change in her figure
She's 12 years old and she's having a baby
In love with the molester, who's sexin' her crazy
And yet she thinks that he'll be with her forever
And dreams of a world where the two of them are together,
Whatever

He left her and she had the baby solo,
She had it on the bathroom floor
And didn't know so
She didn't know what to throw away
And what to keep
She wrapped the baby up
And threw him in a trash heap

I guess she thought she'd get away, wouldn't hear the cries
She didn't realize
How much the little baby had her eyes
Now the babys in the trash heap ballin'
Momma can't help her, but it hurts to hear her calling
Brenda wants to run away
Momma say, you makin' me lose pay,
The social worker's here everyday

Now Brenda's gotta make her own way
Can't go to her family, they won't let her stay

No money, no babysitter, she couldn't keep a job
She tried to sell crack, but ended up gettin' robbed
So now what's next, there ain't nothin left to sell
So she sees sex as a way of leavin hell
It's payin the rent, so she really can't complain
Prostitute, found slain,
And Brenda's her name, she's got a baby"

- Tupac Shakur, "Brenda's Got A Baby"


That's just one song, there's ALOT I know like that.
 

The Iron Ninja

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I think Ares Tyr might not be coming back, oh well. It was a just and entertaining duel that we two shared sir Articflame, and I hope you will think twice about having the gall to challenge me to a duel the next time I spit at you, you might even think three times.

edit: Ah, spoke too soon, about the Ares Tyr thing anyway
 

Arcticflame

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He tells us what is happening. That is not good imagery.

Wow, he just told me that girl is a prostitute, that sure makes things sad.
He just told me how bad it is for babies to be gotten rid off, I sure have learnt a lot.

It doesn't explore complex themes, or tell you anything which would really rock your world, while it certainly preaches a good ideal, it only does it in a way that at best can be described as heavy handed.

I mean really, story telling 101, you describe the scene in ways which don't tell the audience what is happening directly, doing so forces your reader to think for themselves.
 

Ares Tyr

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Arcticflame post=18.68737.639506 said:
He tells us what is happening. That is not good imagery.



It doesn't explore complex themes, or tell you anything which would really rock your world, while it certainly preaches a good ideal, it only does it in a way that at best can be described as heavy handed.

I mean really, story telling 101, you describe the scene in ways which don't tell the audience what is happening directly, doing so forces your reader to think for themselves.
It's not the focus of the story (the girl being a prostitute), it was a common occurence within his area, girls being led down hard paths by hard lives and bad people around her. She's a metaphor as a whole for young women in the California ghetto as a whole. She's an example of one story, with several bad things within her life. And its just telling the fate of the urban black female in America, not all of them literally exactly like Brenda, but an example of the fates that can become women there at the time.

I mean, he's telling a story, yes, but now you're just being nick-pickey about it to the max. There are rock artists who use blunter language than that. Just because he isn't using metaphors doesn't make him any less a story teller, just a different kind.