Is Rap Music Really Music?

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AvitaDeva

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TestECull said:
AvitaDeva said:
I am a fan of art i listen to all sorts of music (my favorite artist right now is Bjork whom is certainly not a rapper) but being a rap fan is the reason why i think your comment was childish at best and closed at best and close minded at worst. First you have deemed it viable to deny the genre the title of music based off a sample of music you have heard if i were to do that with 80's rock i would be likely to assume it was horrible music about drugs and parting and disrespecting women. But then i would be doing what you are doing and that is not what this thread is about if you read what the creator of the thread was saying. He wanted to judge the structure not the content. He was asking if rap was structurally music and he did not care about the content. Which is why I implore you to read what was said in the thread about the structure so we can all stop arguing about lyrics who gives a fuck if you don't like what a particular rapper is saying. I certainly can't say i agree with every thing every rappers says but i could say that about any artist of any genre.

If you read my post a little more clearly you would realize i was not telling you to change your opinion...it does not cause me to to shit mega brick when you do not agree. What ruffles my feathers is when some one comes into a debate from left field with a silly off topic comment. Who cares if you do not like rap that's not what this thread is about it is about if rap is structurally music. Which most of the people who posted believe...now if you would like to frame your argument through the filter of some newly acquired incite then have at it this thread would be all the better if you came and posted some thing more then a one-liner about something insignificant and openly trivial. Because if you want to discuss the sociology of the ghetto and why songs have "a living good I can afford to do outlandish things to my car" focus to them i am qualified to do so i just got my degree in sociology and thus this is a topic i am well versed in and you would need three to four years of study to debate me. But this is all trivial and the matter is "is rap structurally music".
I gave rap a month. I listened to rap stations on the radio, my phone was full of it, that's all I watched on Youtube. It didn't impress me. I'm not going to get a change of heart listening to any more rap.

oh and one other question when you go to the club do you not dance because rap music is on?
I have better things to do than go clubbing. Seriously, what's the point? Get so drunk you can't stand up straight, screw anything with an accessible orifice, then wake up in the drunk tank with one's car in impound and seven STDs the next morning wondering why your head and your dick both hurt? Sorry but I'd rather just shoot myself than do that.


Besides half the clubs in my area blast Rock, and the other half techno/dance/electronica/whatever the hell it's called today.

A lot of people go clubbing and end up just fine but yes i have never been to a club which does not play electronica or rap so a rock club seems strange to me i would neve know how to dance to that...but that's besides the point...the point is if you read my previous statements i never asked you to change your mind and like rap...I simply asked that you frame your argument to fit the context of the author of this threads intentions. if you check this out it did not ask whether you like it simply asked is it music structurally. and if your gonna ignore the authors original intent at least give an argument besides i don't like songs about rims because that's a rather shallow argument. it's a perfect reason not to like rap i mean i don't like the content in every song but to deny it the status as music is another thing entirely. think about for a moment...is the fact that you don't like the content really enough to change it's status as a genre i mean i'm sure you don't like the content of other songs in other genres of music are they not music? your argument is a slippery slope...
 

101flyboy

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Depends on what you think music is. People have different opinions on what constitutes as music. I say yes, but it's mostly garbage, as is about 90% of music in general.
 

goliath6711

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Wow... I can't believe it's the end of 2010 and we're having an argument that hasn't been prevalent since the mid 1980s.

First of all, anyone arguing over lyrics should remove themselves from the debate. Is Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" considered music? How about Run DMC's version?

Considering that both versions use the exact same lyrics, I'd say that you'd better have the same answer for both.

And for those using the argument that there is no music or melody in rap, what do you call this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f66O8iRt3KE

And this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yb-MpisiK8&feature=related

And this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HOwz_HdoA0

And even this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWw2PHQEWTg

Plus if some type of musical instrument is required, you would also need to explain this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6vq5Ri2-hw

As for the rockers and headbangers who defend their genre as true music, let me show you an example using another of my favorite songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDtJXIkrlRM
2:55 - 3:25 = Screaming. Nothing remotely close to holding a tune.
3:59 - 5:01 = Actual singing and melody.

Also, if you want discredit a song for its lyrics, how about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEllHMWkXEU
 

Spookimitsu

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DiMono said:
So instead you said something useless like blah blah blah
The point, good sir, has been missed.
The secret doth wait eyes unclouded by ambition :)

the Dept of Science said:
Lots of knowledge
He knows of what he speaks, and a fitting closure to the opening statements of the discussion (which can be taken as insulting, as if you didnt realize it.); Hopefully everyone read this.
 

DustyDrB

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Jan 19, 2010
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TestECull said:
I have better things to do than go clubbing. Seriously, what's the point? Get so drunk you can't stand up straight, screw anything with an accessible orifice, then wake up in the drunk tank with one's car in impound and seven STDs the next morning wondering why your head and your dick both hurt? Sorry but I'd rather just shoot myself than do that.
I'm not saying none of those things happen, but it's far from a typical experience.

The point of going to a club is to have fun with friends, meet new people, to dance, or any number of other reasons. Seriously, by the time most people I know including myself were old enough to get into clubs, we were over the "get blasted every time I drink" phase. I mean if you're just a huge introvert, that's cool. But the way you describe clubs, it sounds like your city's night life just sucks or you've just never really given it much of a chance.
 

brodie21

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if there was no hip hop or pop we wouldnt have this

there are alot of good rap songs, but most are just guys talking over a beat. i think that they should at least try to make it rhyme
 

Spookimitsu

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TestECull said:
I gave rap a month. I listened to rap stations on the radio, my phone was full of it, that's all I watched on Youtube. It didn't impress me. I'm not going to get a change of heart listening to any more rap.
That seems like your problem there. If you had some pals that were into it, and not the commercialized overly synthesized bs on the radio, they should have been the ones who would help you find more in the genre that you can deal with, or relate to, or even enjoy.

Maybe storytelling emcees, maybe wordplay, maybe battling?... but you arent going to find it on the radio, that I promise you.
For instance, I love hip-hop. All day. Since birth. probably 70~83% or my current ipod volume (not including audiobooks) However, on my car's radio? All I can listen to is jazz, classic rock or talk radio, because hip-hop/RnB radio stations generally SUCK. (modern rock joints can get sucky and repetitive too.) Anytime where you have to depend on the majority of listeners calling in all day what songs they want to hear, and syndicated radio playlists based on that you are going to hear nothing but BS.

Hence the classic rock.

I would be more than willing to share some quality tunes with a friend of mine if they were seriously interested in taking in some hip-hop, however at the time, I can't be buggered with it, even less so if you are going to be biased against it. So, again, instead I'm just going back to listening to some Jay Dee beats. http-> www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM4suco50wI (hint: its a good place to start)
 

Spookimitsu

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brodie21 said:
i think that they should at least try to make it rhyme
What??
LOL Stop listening to WPGC, most of that club sh*t (while actually good for a dance floor [i guess]) will actively lower your IQ
 

brodie21

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Spookimitsu said:
brodie21 said:
i think that they should at least try to make it rhyme
What??
LOL Stop listening to WPGC, most of that club sh*t (while actually good for a dance floor [i guess]) will actively lower your IQ
WTF is WPGC? i was talking about singing. a lot of singing is poetry. stanzas etc
 

goliath6711

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TestECull said:
Materials required for rap:

1. Vocabulary of a 12th grader.
2. Gold chains, grilles, whatnot(These come in handy for the photo shoot and music video)
3. Auto-tune
4. The ability to molest words into rhyming while saying them so fast you need a cheat sheet to figure out wtf he's rapping about
5. A computer with which to generate an artificial bass line and throw in some random beeps.
6. A techno guru to mix all that shit together.


Rap isn't music from this angle, either.
This is why no one can take opinions like yours seriously. Because you make stupid, uninformed, general claims with not even anything resembling an attempt to do any research. I don't even have to discredit you, someone already did.

the Dept of Science said:
While it is true that opinions are subjective and noone can say that you are "wrong" for liking or disliking something in 90% of cases where I see people hating on rap, they display at least some degree of ignorance, generally crass stereotyping. If your opinion is based on false beliefs, then I can say that your beliefs are wrong and your opinions may need revising.

First of all, different genres need to be assessed on different criteria. Saying that rap is bad singing and is based around repetative beats is not only wrong, but missing the point. It would be like criticising Mozart for his lack of guitar solos. Good rap is all about flow, complex rhymes, clever word play and storytelling ability. If you think that DJing is easy or boring or "just taking someone elses songs", then look at this documentary on why you are wrong. Oh yea, and rap groups are increasingly using live bands. These guys currently work as Jimmy Fallon's house band.

Secondly, I realise, that songs primarily concerned with the issues of young, lower class black men are unlikely to strike a chord with those who frequent a videogames forum. I mean that would be like expecting Jay Z to be a big fan of Grizzly Bear. Oh wait. You can enjoy a peice of music regardless of subject matter. I don't see anyone complaining about, say, Nick Cave writing an a whole album of songs about murdering people, Big Black writing an album called "Songs About Fucking" or the Velvet Underground writing songs about taking lots of drugs. But somehow, when its in a rap song, it becomes offensive. I personally find, for example, NWA quite a refreshing change from all the angsty white guy music I listen to.
Oh yea, and I almost feel it goes without saying that nowhere near as much rap as most people claim is about "guns, bitches and bling", at least not the sort of rap that anyone actually into rap listens to. The first rap group that I got into (I'll admit, maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I would been on the side of the majority of this thread) was De La Soul, as their whole aestetic was the complete opposite to what I learned to expect from rap, with a jazz influenced sound and raps about everything from awkward first loves to surreal walks in the park, talking to animals. I sortof started at the left-field and worked my way right.
To summarise, there is a large amount of rap that is not about "guns, bitches and bling" and even if it is, that doesn't mean that its necessarily bad.

Thirdly, Sturgeons Law. Yea, there is a fairly large amount of rap which is shit. On the other hand, there is a large amount of any genre which is shit. Judging rap by 50 Cent is like judging fantasy novels by Stephanie Mayer, they may be popular (although, I don't really know anyone that listens to 50 Cent any more), but don't let them taint the genre as a whole.

Oh, and lastly, can people please stop saying that all good rap was released in the 80s/90s and since then its been crap, especially if you are going to hold up the Sugarhill Gang, MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice as your examples. Have you listened to the fish verse of Rappers Delight? I forgive you for missing it, because its about 6 minutes into that song, but its one of the most baffling things ever committed to tape; a narrative about going to a friends house and having to eat bad food out of politeness. Even though they allegedly coined the term "rap", they were by no means the first rap group. They were a largely manufactured group, to wring money out of rising rap scene. MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice released one decent song each, both of rap over barely edited samples of Superfreak and Under Pressure respectively and don't hold a candle to other rappers or groups of that era: Run DMC, Public Enemy, De La Soul, Eric B and Rakim, Beastie Boys, Boogie Down Productions, etc.
There's been plenty of good rap this side of the millenium. 5 of Metacritics Top 15 albums are rap, 10 of the top 50. And that doesn't take into account some worthy underground records that people here have recommended (Sage Francis' Personal Journals, Aesop Rock's Labour Days), but which didn't make it onto the metacritic rankings (weren't widely reviewed on initial release). While we may not have quite had something as good as say, Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back, Beastie Boys' Pauls Boutique or De La Soul's 3 Feet High and Rising, we have had OutKast's Stankonia, Dizzee Rascal's Boy in da Corner, Jay Z's the Blueprint, Kanye West's Late Registration, College Dropout and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, The Roots' Phrenology and Im sure plenty others which I have missed.

ps. "Retards attempting poetry" and "can't spell crap without rap" is not clever.
 

Spookimitsu

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brodie21 said:
WTF is WPGC? i was talking about singing. a lot of singing is poetry. stanzas etc
Oops I thought you might have been around the NoVA area. Its one of the radio stations in VA that plays the same songs all day long.

TestECull said:
Materials required for rap:

1. Vocabulary of a 12th grader.
2. Gold chains, grilles, whatnot(These come in handy for the photo shoot and music video)
3. Auto-tune
4. The ability to molest words into rhyming while saying them so fast you need a cheat sheet to figure out wtf he's rapping about
5. A computer with which to generate an artificial bass line and throw in some random beeps.
6. A techno guru to mix all that shit together.
This is inaccurate, misleading, sarcastic, and offensive. You gave up on making your point, and you have digressed to insulting. Nice! Its like saying I wouldn't need any practice to thrash properly, oh no, i just need a pick (any pick will do just fine) ANY kind of electric guitar in the world (because they all make the same sound, right?) and an amplifier distorted to hell (and overdrive, cause that makes it authentic). After you line all that up, just strum your 2 or three chords really fast, while screaming into a microphone. Methamphetamines help! Shoot, you dont even really need words at that point, we'll just make some up post-production to go in the cd-jacket. It's not going to matter because your target audience is going to be headbanging so much the wouldnt be able to hear lyrics over the ringing of their ears.
Or all I need for country music is a dead dog and heartache. Or maybe for Opera all I would need is a deep breath and an Orchestra?

I know it's bs.

The more you post your opinion, the more I wonder if you may have an 'other' reasons for not liking rap music. :-/
Sorry, just calling it like I see it.

But the way you describe clubs, it sounds like your city's night life just sucks or you've just never really given it much of a chance.
I value my truck way too much to risk getting it impounded, vandalized, stolen, vomited on, torched, or run into while at or near clubs...
This however, is innocent. I dont care for the club scene too much either. Although I have to admit, I will venture out to a Drum&Bass show...

and it isn't blared with only about 200hz of the audible spectrum being reproduced solely to annihilate crappy cars.
THAT part was funny however :)
 

Mr.Incognitus

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Dec 7, 2010
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I would say that I don't think so, but if I did about 5 people would say my opinion is invalid because I haven't bothered to listen to any rap outside of whatever is played on the radio and tv
 

Naheal

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Sep 6, 2009
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Yes.


I could post up Libera Me from Hell, but I think it's been done already.
 

brodie21

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Spookimitsu said:
brodie21 said:
WTF is WPGC? i was talking about singing. a lot of singing is poetry. stanzas etc
Oops I thought you might have been around the NoVA area. Its one of the radio stations in VA that plays the same songs all day long.
i do live in northern virginia, but i dont listen to the local stations, i listen to satellite radio, and my favorite music stations are lithium and rock@random. i listen to about 3-5 rap songs
 

SadisticPretzel

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Nov 29, 2010
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I like most of Eminem's work. Other than that...I find it very hard to enjoy music that's all about shooting people, doing drugs, praising oneself's supposed awesomeness, or raping women.

Yes, I realize that Eminem had 1 or 2 CDs that fir that description. Note that I said most.