Is Street Fighter Sexist/Racist?

[loa]

If you throw the racism card at everything mildly offensive that involves non-caucasian characters in some manner, it loses all its meaning you know. At some point, showing any variety in ethnicity is "racist".
Also you should learn the difference between "character" and "character design", especially when talking about something with 0 character development.

 

[Naeras]

Next you'll be telling me they discriminate against the LGBT community for x reasons.

Well, Street Fighter does have one of the very few (possibly) transsexual video game characters in Poison, and that character is just as stereotyped as everything else in the franchise. OBVIOUS DISCRIMINATION :V

 

[mecegirl]

I never got the controversy behind Resident Evil 5. Africa + Zombies = African Zombies. You shoot them because they're undead, not because they're black. The only offensive thing I can think of is the portrayal of the Ndipaya tribe, and you might argue they're taking the Indiana Jones route of caricature (never heard a peep about the portrayal of Peruvian tribesmen in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, not even from my Peruvian buddies). There's a general concensus it's dumb and harmless.

Because there are only black people in africa right? I was actually talking aboutthis yesterday with a dude at work. I don't know how little people know about africa, but there are other ethnicities than black, black, and really black. Africa is a ( really big) continent. There are black people, white people, Middle eastern people, hell even asian people. But for some reason everyone think that Africa is full of poor black people. Also fuck that tribal stage.

The environments were kinda odd to me too. Like what region of Africa were they even in? They seemed to jump from region to region. Like there was the grasslands, then a swamp, then a volcano....like a volcano. And even though the "tribal" cities ranged from grass huts to underground ruins the character models for the inhabitants were the same. And I think that the game could have been more interesting if from the beginning it was set in an actual city(because Africa like any continent has plenty of those) instead of some slum. The game just relied on a stereotypical view of Africa and was criticized for it.

 

[Eamar]

I suppose technically it might count as racist and sexist. I'd be inclined to ignore most of it though, and I say that as the sort of person who's likely to get labelled as a "SJW" in certain corners of the internet -.-

Fighting games are built on stereotype and visuals (and above all, shit looking cool), not character and story. That's why you get the crazy character designs and move sets, and the simplistic, cartoony stereotypes. It's all about, "how can we make this character visually distinctive in a large roster, and in the middle of a crazy fight with incredibly busy visual effects going off all over the place?" This leads to exaggeration and stereotyping of everything, including nationality if that's a feature, which in Street Fighter it obviously is.

I always got the impression that it was meant affectionately. Every country has affectionate stereotypes of their own and other countries. I mean, when us Brits describe Aussies as lazy beach bums who spend all day drinking beer and throwing more shrimp on the barbie, that's not meant to be insulting (in fact it's usually said with more than a hint of jealousy). I always got the impression that that was what Capcom was getting at, but I could be wrong.

 

[Kanova]

I kind of want to know why you hated Resident Evil 5. Because it was set in Africa? And black people live in Africa? What is the difference from it being set in the States and only killing white zombies? And besides, I think you kill more white zombies in RE5 anyway.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Why are you expecting properly fleshed out characterisation in a one on one fighter? that's like expecting balls to the wall action from a turn based game.

The characters are designed to be equal parts stereotype (the Japanese characters are stereotypes, by the way) and eye catching, they're not trying to make an artistic or social statement.

That's not what I'm saying. Cammy should have more to her character besides, you know, her ass. She doesn't seem to much of a character. I mean even Dhalsim had character. A fucking hugely racist character, in my opinion, but still a character. She just boring from what it looks like, which is the most disappointing. Also, just because something is equal parts stereotype DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT. That's a lame excuse. It's still stereotyping and that's not cool. I'm also not looking for an artistic statement from a game called FUCKING STREET FIGHTER. But decent characters would be fine. Mortal Kombat had interesting (although stupid) female characters. What's this games excuse?

I didn't play the story

Then why are you judging her lack of character? Go play story mode, educate yourself before you go complain about her character. How can you judge her writing... when you've never seen her writing?

Also Street Fighter 5 isn't out, you have 4 most likely.

Sorry, I meant 4. Also, I already talked about story mode. It's written by Capcom. Capcom don't write good stories, EVER. They're like NetherRealm studios, except without the self awareness. I will eventually play through the story, but I am just calling bullshit on her actually being good.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

The weird thing is, she actually does have more to her character. It just doesn't at all come out in the straight-up fighting that she's actually a female clone of M. Bison who rebels against Shadoloo. Whereas even Dhalsim gets an ending that shows he's not only a (relatively) ascetic Hindu yogi who follows Agni, but also a loving family man with a wife and child.

Not saying there's not racism in the Street Fighter universe (hello, T. Hawk, and possibly Hakan), but frankly, Dhalsim's stages always struck me as odder in that regard than he was. And Cammy feels like kind of a weird outlier (along with Elena and Sakura's underwear shots) in the series that also gave us Chun Li, C. Viper, and Makoto.

Oh, and as far as black people in Street Fighter, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Deejay, Sean, Birdie, Dudley, and Elena (and I hesitate to group them together, because they're Jamaican, American, two Brits, and Kenyan, respectively). Can't really judge any of them, myself...'cept maybe Elena.

Something to think about, that's actually pretty cool and not that bad. Maybe Capcom's not as stupid as I thought they were?

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

In order to be called sexist/racist it has to be discriminatory and portray that sex/race in a negative manner. But Street Fighter is basically one giant pile of cartoonish stereotypes...none of whom are supposed to be taken seriously.
Unless of course you're one of those people who can get offended by a glass of water, in which case not much can be done.

If your sister is going to be a feminist based on the fact that Cammy exists, I think she's in for a bumpy ride full of lessons and discoveries

Here is the thing, I'm not easily offended. I wasn't even offended by Street Fighter. I just thought it was stupid, and I did leave, kinda, just a little bit, I don't know, angry. I don't know why I was angry, I can recognize they're stereotypes, I just don't like a bunch of cartoonish stereotypes. It's hard to justify for me. I don't know why. Also I'm saying my sister is a feminist because she was TRULY offended by Cammy's character in a way I hadn't seen. I don't agree and I myself am not offended. But I don't know what to call this shit if it's not Racism/Sexism. I don't know man, I just don't know.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I never got the controversy behind Resident Evil 5. Africa + Zombies = African Zombies. You shoot them because they're undead, not because they're black. The only offensive thing I can think of is the portrayal of the Ndipaya tribe, and you might argue they're taking the Indiana Jones route of caricature (never heard a peep about the portrayal of Peruvian tribesmen in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, not even from my Peruvian buddies). There's a general concensus it's dumb and harmless.

I agree, but to explain my feelings towards the subject, I suggest going back and seeing Yahtzee's view at the end of his review. It's pretty much word for word that.

 

[Warachia]

Sorry, I meant 4. Also, I already talked about story mode. It's written by Capcom. Capcom don't write good stories, EVER. They're like NetherRealm studios, except without the self awareness. I will eventually play through the story, but I am just calling bullshit on her actually being good.

It's surprising how you can be both right and wrong in the same paragraph, no the story isn't good, but there's more to the characters, saying that there's nothing more to the characters other than (possibly racist) sterotypes without even bothering to find out more is stupid, the LEAST you could have done (since you don't seem to want to play the game to find out more) is to look up the characters wiki page for five seconds.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Looking around in the thread, everything has been said allready, except:

...But I also felt dirty for enjoying it...

Enjoying SF makes you feel dirty, huh? I don't believe you want a serious discussion.

Well, no, not that serious, I mean geez, we're still talking about SF. But in all seriousness, even though I was having fun, I did feel a little bad... I don't why, I just did.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I never got the controversy behind Resident Evil 5. Africa + Zombies = African Zombies. You shoot them because they're undead, not because they're black. The only offensive thing I can think of is the portrayal of the Ndipaya tribe, and you might argue they're taking the Indiana Jones route of caricature (never heard a peep about the portrayal of Peruvian tribesmen in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, not even from my Peruvian buddies). There's a general concensus it's dumb and harmless.

Because there are only black people in africa right? I was actually talking aboutthis yesterday with a dude at work. I don't know how little people know about africa, but there are other ethnicities than black, black, and really black. Africa is a ( really big) continent. There are black people, white people, Middle eastern people, hell even asian people. But for some reason everyone think that Africa is full of poor black people. Also fuck that tribal stage.

OT: Really, you are going to jump in on the latest street fighter game and start yelling racism?Racism isn't the word for this. I'm starting to believe people have no idea what racism even means. Is Street fighter Prejudice? Maybe. Stereotypical? Sure. Racist? No.

Next you'll be telling me they discriminate against the LGBT community for x reasons.

I told you, this is my first Street Fighter, and that impression was not the best first one. I mean, I guess that really depends on how you stereotyping. I personally allow it up to a certain point, and the game was kinda on that edge, to the point where I wanted to hear the community make a call.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

Sorry, I meant 4. Also, I already talked about story mode. It's written by Capcom. Capcom don't write good stories, EVER. They're like NetherRealm studios, except without the self awareness. I will eventually play through the story, but I am just calling bullshit on her actually being good.

It's surprising how you can be both right and wrong in the same paragraph, no the story isn't good, but there's more to the characters, saying that there's nothing more to the characters other than (possibly racist) sterotypes without even bothering to find out more is stupid, the LEAST you could have done (since you don't seem to want to play the game to find out more) is to look up the characters wiki page for five seconds.

Okay, fair enough. I will play through the story and give Capcom a chance.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

If you throw the racism card at everything mildly offensive that involves non-caucasian characters in some manner, it loses all its meaning you know. At some point, showing any variety in ethnicity is "racist".
Also you should learn the difference between "character" and "character design", especially when talking about something with 0 character development.

I don't bring up the race card very often, because I usually

A. Don't want to be accused of the thing you just accused me of.

And

B. I don't want to wear this word to utter meaninglessness.

Also, Character Design is a part of the character and I'm including their personality, because I want to hear from long time fans of SF or at least people that have been playing it for a long time.

 

[Gorrath]

I've never quite understood why people expect that they can transplant their own social norms onto products produced by companies from other countries. I find it utterly bizarre that anyone would expect race, sex, and gender issues to be looked at in the same light in Japan as they are in the U.S. I think it's just a case of people seeing things through the lens of their own expectations and not considering that other cultures have a totally different take on these issues. Expecting media from around the world to meet your cultural expectations is a level of self importance that should, perhaps, give one pause.

 

[Savagezion]

Capcom definitely uses stereotypes as bread and butter. But they can be fun and can be prejudice both. If people believe the stereotype is true, that is where racism or sexism comes in. I think most people know of mostly real Indian culture thanks to Bombay in Mass Media. I think that is when the stereotype is harmless. LOL, then there is Cammy. I ain't arguing there, she is sexist. The problem is that women are heavily sexualized across ALL media, in the West at least. That's a whole other discussion in itself. But let me refine part of it here.

It's a game from Japan. Their culture and western culture are very different and faux pas are often made against each other. As racist as this statement is, Japanese culture tends to be racist due to their history. Not against races per se, but against "westerners". Hi I am white and they faux pas me just as much as you. I am usually a stupid guy with too much money. They just insult us different. Ditto with Cammy and Dhalsim. They have a strange culture with women too due to heavy sexism in their culture. Now, that said, I ain't saying all Japanese people are racist and/or sexist though. Asian cultures in general have a history of not liking to deal with westerners because they saw us as barbaric. Which is how western cultures saw them too. Their history has strong racism in it though. I think strong Nationalist governments helped that. It seems hard for Japanese creators across all media to not use stereotypes unless it focuses on Japanese people. Ditto for China. They even have unique stereotypes not used in western media. Some are considered downright creepy and overly perverted though.

Is it a guilty pleasure? Probably, coming from a westerner. However, remember its a whole culture separate from ours. I ain't saying that is an excuse. You can hate it and resent it. But it is merely a part of a whole culture. There are parts of Japanese culture I think are awesome and brilliant. There are also many things in it I think are incredibly shortsighted and stupid as with any culture.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Personally, in relation to personality and character, I think the Female characters of the Street Fighter cast are alright, though I would like if they didn't make their costumes so Stripperiffic, Juri Han, C. Viper and R. Mika come to mind.
Then again, this could be seem more as a general thing rather then Capcom.

 

[Gorrath]

Is it a guilty pleasure? Probably, coming from a westerner. However, remember its a whole culture separate from ours. I ain't saying that is an excuse.

They don't need an excuse to be who they are. With as much as we hear how vastly important historical context is to the way characters are portrayed in media, why on Earth would we expect a country with a completely different historical context to be held to the same standards of character portrayal in media? Something like blackface has a huge negative historical context in the U.S. and is considered taboo (and rightly so) in media produced here. Japan has no such historical context on which to find the concept offensive. But if we were to see black characters in anime who look like a blackface stereotype, we judge those characters based on the historical context of our own society, which is nonsense.

 

[m0ng00se]

Street Fighter 2 was racist as all get out, and since that's the iconic SF from the 90s it's the image it chooses to carry. Dude, Zangief's dragon punch move is some radioactive Chernobyl slap. It's so understated, though, that they can't possibly have been kidding.

And hell yeah it's sexist, see how cool and rough and tumble Chun Li is until she wins then she's all giggles and girliness? For literally no good reason there isn't a single female character with 1000 (standard) health in SF4, even though Makoto entirely deserves it. There was a joke where if Poison ended up having 1000 health we'd know it was supposed to be a guy (950 so nobody knows).

FGs come from a lot of story backgrounds, the really anime inspired stuff is generally terrible because anime is generally terrible.

Guilty Gear has badass amputee women and gay dudes and cross dressers and the girls are super leggy usually but not that much in the way of flying boobs or people that aren't anime-white. Sol sort of looks like he might be half something, and Venom is less white than most of the cast. Skullgirls is ENTIRELY flying boobs and upskirts but it comes from somewhere that makes it feel confident rather than uncomfortable and pandering. YMMV on that one. Virtua Fighter is remarkably level, I couldn't tell you about Tekken, and Mortal Kombat is entirely stupid but considered inoffensive by most people.

If anyone black is left in this thread, I have an important question:

How black is Akuma in Street Fighter?

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

stuff you said

Ehhh...

Let's face it, half the cast in SF is basically just a grab bag of racial/ethnic stereotypes. It's so in your face about it that it could easily be confused for parody.

Dhalsim: The only guy from India and is a mystical magic Hindu with a child bride.
Balrog/Mike Bison: Once the only black guy in the game, criminal and disgraced boxer, can't seem to form complete and proper sentences.
Dee-Jay: Another brother from a different mother - was the second black character in Street Fighter and we already got boxer so what's up next Stereo-tron 3000? Dance fighter...with maracas!? That sounds totally not like a racial stereotype at all. And hey, give him a big sambo grin so he looks extra friendly while he's doing his dancin'.
T. Hawk: Oh poor, gentle T.Hawk, where to begin. Is it your feathered headband, your blue jean jacket with blue jeans and rawhide boots with tassels and beads? Is it how your Ultra finishes with you sitting cross-legged on your opponent...hand raised, uttering "How"?
El Fuerte: What's that, wanted to add a luchador to your fighting game? Why not, everyone else has already put one in theirs. Better make him from Mexico, they spontaneously combust if they're from anywhere else. Better make sure all of his special moves are named after stereotypical Mexican foods or no one will know what to do!
Hakan: Okay guys, we're not laughing with you anymore. Turkey can be found on a globe, not Dante's Inferno (the book, not that PoS game).

What's next, a dark-haired Roma girl with magic fortune telling powers?

Pffft, HALF the cast? The ENTIRE cast is formed of stereotypes and dumb jokes about nationalities. Hell, there already IS magic fortune telling girl, her names Rose and her plots all muddled up with M.Bisons (because there is an ACTUAL plot to the games we just rarely care enough to get into it)

But to continue

Ryu- Japanese, stoic, complete blank slate
Ken- American, same as Ryu, blank slate, these two are just P.O.V style generics as far as I can see (well, outside the plot)
Rufus- American, weighs a metric ton, dances like a ballerina. Loud, obnoxious (where could THOSE stereotypes be coming from)
Sakura- Schoolgirl uniform. In a fighting tournament.
Guile- American, member OF Team America. America. AMERICAAAAAA
Dudley- British, drinks tea with boxing gloves. Obviously.
Fei Long- Literally Bruce Lee.
E. Honda- Japanese and DEFINITELY not a racist stereotype, nope.

And then it starts to get a little... weird

Vega/Balrog- Spanish, has a giant f*cking Wolverine Claw and mask like.. all matadors wear. In Spain. Yes...
Adon- The Thai people being renowned for ginger hair and bird like noses
Sodom- An American guy. In Samurai armor. Because... I can't remember. Nor why he's called Sodom.
Blanka-

Just

Just Blanka. Unlike Elena, Blanka IS from Brazil and he fills all the horrible stereotypes we have about Brazilians

Being giant, green, ginger, electric, rage monkeys.

So, in summation, I... kinda don't see them as racists. Because there is no way these people are actual humans.