Is the Insanity Plea a legitimate defense?

[Naeras]

I don't really give a damn. He'll be locked down in a cell for the rest of his life anyways. Any form of interaction with prison inmates will get him killed, and they can't, at any point, release the guy, as people would try to kill him within seconds of him getting out of prison.

If he ever gets "mentally sane", they'll just put him in an isolate cell in a regular prison anyways.

 

[Tekkawarrior]

snip

Soon as I saw your post I was like "I don't remember replying to this thread :S"

Well this is awkward. And both our names even begin with "T".

Erm. In my defence I made this animated gif myself... and I thought I was being so original. I just wanted one where doomguy stares intently and occasionally glances with cautious scepticism to either side, not going through the whole range of rage and wounding.

Na it's cool. I just couldn't help pointing it out.

OT: On the long term a psych ward is my vote. It will drive him insane.

 

[Joccaren]

Insanity plea makes perfect sense, and is a legitimate defence.
It does not so much excuse you from any punishment as much as change your punishment to better suit you.

If you are in some way insane, putting you in a prison with the chance of you going crazy isn't exactly a good idea. Putting you in a Psych Ward so that if you do, you and others will be kept safe, is. A psych ward isn't necessarily the easy way out, its just a different solution. In this case, either way it is a life sentence for him. One way he has a chance of doing it again and hurting more people, even if they are criminals, and the other he will be monitored well and kept safe so that he won't be able to harm anyone should he go crazy again.

Letting someone off free due to insanity? No. Sending them to a psych ward instead of prison? Yeah.

 

[xvbones]

My ex's friend self admitted to a state run psychiatric hospital. My ex asked if I would call her and talk to her because she was really depressed and just needed someone to talk to every now and again. When I talked to her she was mostly coherent but had just taken her meds and started to trail off towards the end of our conversation. In the background I could hear people shouting and acting out. I barely knew her friend yet she was so happy just to talk to me and was practically begging me to stay on the phone with her and call back another time. She cried when she had to get off the phone. That was depressing enough just talking to her, I can not imagine actually having to be there let alone in an institution for the criminally insane. They don't have to mistreat you. Just being in an environment like that is practically cruel and unusual punishment.

I want to tell a lot of deeply personal stories about life in a psychiatric hospital, but this is the internet and deeply personal stories do not belong on the internet.

There is a drug that is called 'halperidol' and it basically shuts off your brain.

You just sit there and stare off into space, drooling.

Drooling. Lots of that. Because you can't really feel your face. You really can't feel. You just sit there and stare at really nothing for hours and hours and hours and hours, drooling. Until it wears off. Drooling.

You don't daydream because you can't.
You don't think.
This isn't hyperbole, halperidol makes you incapable of producing thought.
You just sort of sit there staring off into space, unable to hold a single coherent thought together for any length of time.
Not even grasping at threads, there is nothing in there, absolutely nothing at all inside you, all you are capable of, physically or mentally, is sitting in a corner, staring at nothing, drooling.

I do not have sufficient words to describe how very, very, intensely unpleasant halperidol is and it is not even close to the strongest drug any mental institution has at their disposal.

Those of you who want this man to be locked in a room forever, I promise you, you are getting your wish.

 

[xvbones]

when did you get your experience of mental health institutions, the 1960s?

1995-1998.

When did you get yours?

 

[Seydaman]

Looking at all that. I'd just like to say, I support the idea of having our prison system focus on helping people who've done wrong rather than just putting them in a box for a set amount of time.

Do prisoners see therapists?

As far as I know, yes, they do get counseling in the facility. The whole point is not to estrange the inmates from normal society by making their life miserable. And so far it has worked. If I remember correctly, the re-offending rate is around 30% lower than in, say, United States. It's a very pragmatic approach to the justice system, and I'm actually in support of that. Result matters more to me than sating my sense of 'justified vengeance' or some such.

As it has been said by many a leader, hate begets hate.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward?

In his case the outcome is much the same, 'psych ward' will be a secure facility from which he will never return.

The insanity plea is perfectly valid, because it means the defendant is criminally insane and can never be released. Mr Brevik is clearly a total nutter, believing himself to be part of a Europe wide terrorist organisation (of which no trace was found) and part of a crucial cell (which turned out be some guys talking shit on internet forums). He clearly lives in his own little world and putting him with the general prison population, which includes perfectly rational evil people as opposed to insane evil people, wouldn't end well for anyone.

Thee's also the possibilty he would present a danger to the prison staff, more so than regular inmates, so sending him to the loony bin seems fairly reasonable.

 

[chstens]

The thing is, since he's been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, we can keep him locked up forever. Something we couldn't do if he was "normal". There longest sentence you can get in Norway is 21 years.

 

[silasbufu]

I see some people here consider the "Looney bin", as some call it, some kind of good bargain for not going to prison. I myself have never been imprisoned in any of the two, but I can bet that the Psyichiatric Wards are no Paradise.

Also, we have the blessing of being mentally sane ( at least on a moderate scale ). None of you can tell how that man must have felt or what his thoughts were . I'm in no way taking his side, but mental ilness is a serious thing and can drive you to take serious negative actions.

Of course, many defense lawyers use the Insanity Plea the wrong way, but in cases this serious, I really don't think it matters. He won't be free ever again.

 

[darthotaku]

Insanity pleas are rarely used because it's so easy to exploit. it's looked into very deeply, and generally leaves you in a mental institution for longer than the regular jail sentense would. If they determined he's crazy, he probably is.

 

[xvbones]

The thing is, since he's been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, we can keep him locked up forever.

I know, right?

It is so very weird to me that some people are treating his many brain problems as though they are:
a) curable
b) not treated with heavy medication.

 

[crazyarms33]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

In America I know that the insanity plea works less than 3% of the time it is used, mainly because people can smell the BS. But if the person is really crazy and kills a bunch of people, I think that it doesn't matter whether he is or not, he should die.

My reasoning is simple, there are 2 ways this can work to my mind. You send him to a psych ward where he gets better after years and years of therapy/drugs whatever. As a rational human being how could you live with yourself knowing that you killed (in his case) 77 teenagers? Somehow, I think if it was me I would put a gun in my mouth and end it, and if that is a logical conclusion, why would you spare him initially only to have him realize he is a monster later on?
The second way it can work is that he gets the death penalty right away. Either he can be cured or he can't and if he can't he has proven himself a danger to society in an EXTREME way. And if he can be cured, well, see above.

 

[Radelaide]

Umm... Yeah? Why does it matter if they get a life sentence in prison or in the loony bin? They're still out of the way and no longer killing people.

Because if he's sent to the loony bin, they're assuming he can be rehabilitated into the society. He would be treated as if his murdering 77 innocent people was a symptom of illness and not a pre-meditated plan of murder. His lawyer (the poor bastard) will be trying to say that "he's sorry for what he did as he wasn't in control of his actions and that he should be able be made into a functioning member of the public again."

He needs to be locked up in a dirty cell made to look at the pictures of the families he's destroyed and never see the light of day. There are just some people who should have been aborted before birth and he's one of them.

I would contest that. An attempt should be made to rehabilitate people as much as possible. So if you have to opportunity to both confine someone and try to make them a normal person, why wouldn't you?

EDIT: Also, I would argue that murdering 77 people is always a sign of mental illness. A premeditated plan to kill people shows complete disregard for human life, which I would say is itself, a mental illness.

Perhaps a mental illness, but not insanity. Going by that logic, I'm insane because I suffer depression and anxiety, both mental illness.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is idealistic but illogical. He murdered 77 people, used his religion as an excuse and is acting like he's doing the world a favour. Even if (in some magical world) he was made "normal" again, the families of the people he killed wouldn't get justice and they wouldn't be happy about him being released.

Confine him, yes. But don't waste valuable resources on someone who doesn't deserve them when.

 

[xvbones]

Perhaps a mental illness, but not insanity. Going by that logic, I'm insane because I suffer depression and anxiety, both mental illness.

Depression and anxiety do not manifest as murder sprees.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is idealistic but illogical.

The idea that he can be rehabilitated is impossible.

He can not be 'cured', what is wrong with him is not curable.

It is treatable, yes.

With very very heavy medication.

Forever.

 

[Zantos]

The man probably can't be rehabilitated, and would probably be a danger to other inmates who could. Unless the Gulags are free, secure psychiatric is probably best for everyone.

 

[Muspelheim]

Honestly, if it were my call, I think it'd be more merciful towards everyone involved, Breivik included, to just dust of the guillotine and make it pass quickly.

Of course, we've agreed on in the past that we won't do things like that anymore, so that won't happen. Fair enough. Furthermore, life imprisonment in the mental ward is pretty much where he belongs. If nothing else, being classified as a madman is probably the worst punishment for Breivik, considering how seriously he takes himself and his awful political fanfic.

In the end, it's fair enough. He isn't well. He actually believe in his silly Templar-nonsense, and is obviously a very dangerous patient. Wherever he ends up, he will not be treated very well, considering who he is. And if he is ever considered cured enough for a release, he will most likely be murdered before the door has closed behind him, or will have to live in fear of being discovered and killed. In the extremly unlikely event he is ever set free. In short, suitable punishment.

 

[Conza]

Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a rampage in Norway last July, isn't going to

jail. A mental evaluation found he inhabited a ''delusional universe'' and was ''psychotic'' at

the time of the attacks. He is now going to stay in a Psychiatric Ward for possibly the rest of

his life. What do you guys think about this? Should he have gone to Jail or do you think the

prosecutors are right in just putting him in a Psych ward? Or in that case, what do you think

we, as a race, should do with people who were "delusional" or "psychotic" during the time of a

murder or an attack?

Hmm and odd format and capitalisation placement.

Right, well atleast he's locked up, if they had pleaded 'temporary insanity' (and won) he'd have walked free.

He's a sick person who's getting rehibilitation, that's all we can really ask for, we're hopefully beyond the point of revenge.

 

[Screamarie]

He was psychotic at the time of the attacks?
What about all the time it took to prepare them?

I'm not certain but what I think they may be talking about here is the fact that people with schizophrenia have times of lucidity, the can fade in and out of their delusions. I'm not certain and if someone knows better they can certainly correct me, but I think some schizophrenics even have something akin to black outs where they don't know what they've done recently. So I think what they're saying with that is that they know for certain that at the time he was suffering a psychotic delusion.

 

[Hippobatman]

It's Norway, not America. Psych wards in Norway doesn't function in the same way.

The Norwegians are basically peace-loving hippies, and it's not going down in the way you so describe. Sure, a mental ward isn't a playground there either, but the only time you will be strapped to a bed is if you misbehave. Breivik, for all his lack of emphaty, isn't without logic. He isn't going to misbehave if he knows it will make his situation worse.

I personally think he belongs in a prison.

Let me just go right off the bat here and say that, even though I'm Norwegian, I don't have much understanding for the politics and the technicalities regarding mental institutions over here. However, I consider forcing him into a mental ward for the rest of his life a fair punishment for what he's done. Sure, he may not suffer, but he will be locked away forever.

If he ends up in prison, he'd run the risk of being killed by the other inmates, and I would rather see him locked up for the rest of his life, so that he can pass away forgotten, rather than being killed in prison, which would spark yet another top story in the media.

Oh.. And, we're not all peace loving hippies, I think. But thanks for the input.